The discussion regarding NA may be the clue I need. The NA link through the WALDEN line seems to fit what I have been told about my family. Here is what I know: 1.That the NA line comes through my great grandmother's line. That would be through: my maternal grandmother, Rella Jane HANEY, 1888-1922; her mother, Nancy Elvira HASTY (1950-1910, m. David James Haney) ; and her mother, Rachel Walden ,(b. abt. 1822, m. William Hasty of Anson/Union Co..) 2. That my grandmother was either one-fourth or one-eighth NA. If Rachel Walden is the NA link, the degree of NA descent would be right. Rachel could have been one-half NA or pure. I have not yet researched the Walden line, but I will definately begin now! I would really appreciate any help with this and will be glad to share whatever I have. Mary in SC

In a message dated 9/23/00 10:12:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << Paul Heinegg's website at http://www.freeafricanamericans.com You'll learn a lot! It's a great site and easy to get around in -- fast to load too. >> Thanks so very much for this site. It is great. However, I must have missed the site you said had pictures. Could you send that one again? I found the site to be very informative. JOY

I have the Rogers information back to 1635 and I will look for your NA connection. I know that Nancy Myers Brumblow Rogers was an herb doctor and treated some of the Native Americans in the area. She was married to Job Rogers son of Thomas and Winnie Collins.

Hi KAy, It is my understanding that in NC and Va there was not a problem with races marrying. Some of these marriages or unions are part of the thesis of Paul Heinegg's book. The problem came with slavery when the people of color began outnumbering the caucasions, I think. :) Anyway, I also understand the racially, NC was more liberal that Va. The address for Chris Moore's site is http://www.aol.com/Stratz43 or http://members.aol.com/Stratz43 . (I am having a senior moment now.) :) BTW, both Valentine and Bannister are surnames that can be associated with mixed race people according to Angela Walton Raji. :) Another source of information about free people of color in NC is an article written by Dr. Virginia DeMarce for Genealogy Quarterly entitled, "Very Sligtly Mixt". The article deals with tri-racial isolates o which the Lumbee indians of Robeson County are part of. BTW, I am very familiar with the Bolling surname. They also intermarried into my Charity family and my maiden name is Stith. :) So I have information on both Bolling lines. My families are mainly from Va. The surnames listed below are my husband's family from Anson,Union and Gates Cos. Linda http://members.tripod.com/~Linda_T Threadgill, Copeland, Harrison, Parker, Boon, Sullivan, Leake, Manus, Moore, Williams, Austin, Horn, Howell, Weaver, Eley and many others.

Kay have you every made a conection with the William valentine smith line. I have Delihah tarlton who married into this line. she married george valentine smith> Tina ----- Original Message ----- From: "K. McGee" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 7:07 PM Subject: Re: [NCUNION] Stegall/Native American > I haven't got my Smiths to VA yet, but I suspect our only connection is > going to be with our Stegalls -- lets hope we can get that all straight <G> > > Be sure to go over to that site Linda suggested: > Paul Heinegg's website at http://www.freeafricanamericans.com > You'll learn a lot! It's a great site and easy to get around in -- fast to > load too. > > Kay McGee > > At 09:59 PM 09/23/2000 -0700, you wrote: > >Hi kay, My husband is a Smith from Virginia. But His great grandfather > <snip> > > >Also , I am not sure if my 2'x greatgrandmother was cherokee from Stegall > >or from her mother's family. I only know that from my grandmother she was > >full blooded cherokee and She was a Stegall who married a Stegall. What > >nationality is stegall known for? I know all my family has either jet > >black hair or dark brown and dark colored skin. I know that doesn't mean > >much.. but I know since I was very young I was always told one > >grandmother's was full blooded cherokee. > >thanks, Tina Smith > >Also, I know that descendants of Pochantas lived in our area > >from what they called the red Bollins or bowlings.(Also my husbands line) > >legend goes around here that a John Bollin, pochantas grandson lived in > >what is known as bowling's Mountain around here in Granville county, Nc.he > >lived like a hermit up in the hills. and was called and old Indian. He > >only came down to sell his furs. His family moved from person county, Nc. > <snip> > >

Hi kay, My husband is a Smith from Virginia. But His great grandfather was adopted (Simpson at birth) and married from his first marriage a cherokee. She was a Strum. Has the name strum every been of any native American lineage? ( that you know) I can not find a marriage certificate for them. Also , I am not sure if my 2'x greatgrandmother was cherokee from Stegall or from her mother's family. I only know that from my grandmother she was full blooded cherokee and She was a Stegall who married a Stegall. What nationality is stegall known for? I know all my family has either jet black hair or dark brown and dark colored skin. I know that doesn't mean much.. but I know since I was very young I was always told one grandmother's was full blooded cherokee. thanks, Tina Smith Also, I know that descendants of Pochantas lived in our area from what they called the red Bollins or bowlings.(Also my husbands line) legend goes around here that a John Bollin, pochantas grandson lived in what is known as bowling's Mountain around here in Granville county, Nc.he lived like a hermit up in the hills. and was called and old Indian. He only came down to sell his furs. His family moved from person county, Nc. ----- Original Message ----- From: "K. McGee" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [NCUNION] Stegall/Native American > Thanks Linda. One thing, didn't legal marriages exist at one time w/o race > being an important factor and could therefore be found in "normal" > channels? Or where the documents still segregated as some of the Censuses > were? I found a McCrary relative listed as owner of two slaves on an AL > listing in 1866 in Dallas County called: 1866 Alabama State Census, > Colored Population, Dallas County, AL [Part 1 of 5] ; but I couldn't find > him on the "regular" census. It made me wonder if I couldn't, or wouldn't > have to, find some of my NC Smiths through their slaves and the other > records specific to color and race. > > And since I have 2 Waldens to look for (mostly in GA & AR now) I decided to > have a look at that first site you mentioned. The pictures were wonderful > and surprising too -- I can see how difficult even then it was to label a > person. I found Bannisters whose surname I'm familiar with in Forsyth > County GA -- didn't find a connection, but interesting to the extreme. > > If you run in to any Rainwaters here in the Union (Mecklenburg/Anson) > County area, I'd sure like to see them -- and see what NA group, Catawba or > . . . > > Thanks again, > Kay > Chaney, Stegall, Helms, and many others there in NC. > ~~~~ > Genealogy: http://home.earthlink.net/~kmcgee03/ > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cousins > > At 06:07 PM 09/23/2000 -0700, you wrote: > >Kay, I know what you are referring too, but cannot remember the dates > >involved. :) I was reading some information on native americans in Va > >and it seems that the terms "mulatto" was not officially used there > >until 1832. So how were Native Americans enumerated? If you believe > >Plecker and some others, most of the native americans were gone from Va by > >the late 1700s. > ><snip> > >It was some members of the Charity family that intermarried with the > >Walden family. > > > >Linda > > > >http://members.tripod.com/~Linda_T > > > >Threadgill, Copeland, Harrison, Parker, Boon, Sullivan, Leake, Manus, > >Moore, Williams, Austin, Horn, Howell, Weaver, Eley and many others. > > >

I haven't got my Smiths to VA yet, but I suspect our only connection is going to be with our Stegalls -- lets hope we can get that all straight <G> Be sure to go over to that site Linda suggested: Paul Heinegg's website at http://www.freeafricanamericans.com You'll learn a lot! It's a great site and easy to get around in -- fast to load too. Kay McGee At 09:59 PM 09/23/2000 -0700, you wrote: >Hi kay, My husband is a Smith from Virginia. But His great grandfather <snip> >Also , I am not sure if my 2'x greatgrandmother was cherokee from Stegall >or from her mother's family. I only know that from my grandmother she was >full blooded cherokee and She was a Stegall who married a Stegall. What >nationality is stegall known for? I know all my family has either jet >black hair or dark brown and dark colored skin. I know that doesn't mean >much.. but I know since I was very young I was always told one >grandmother's was full blooded cherokee. >thanks, Tina Smith >Also, I know that descendants of Pochantas lived in our area >from what they called the red Bollins or bowlings.(Also my husbands line) >legend goes around here that a John Bollin, pochantas grandson lived in >what is known as bowling's Mountain around here in Granville county, Nc.he >lived like a hermit up in the hills. and was called and old Indian. He >only came down to sell his furs. His family moved from person county, Nc. <snip>

Thanks Linda. One thing, didn't legal marriages exist at one time w/o race being an important factor and could therefore be found in "normal" channels? Or where the documents still segregated as some of the Censuses were? I found a McCrary relative listed as owner of two slaves on an AL listing in 1866 in Dallas County called: 1866 Alabama State Census, Colored Population, Dallas County, AL [Part 1 of 5] ; but I couldn't find him on the "regular" census. It made me wonder if I couldn't, or wouldn't have to, find some of my NC Smiths through their slaves and the other records specific to color and race. And since I have 2 Waldens to look for (mostly in GA & AR now) I decided to have a look at that first site you mentioned. The pictures were wonderful and surprising too -- I can see how difficult even then it was to label a person. I found Bannisters whose surname I'm familiar with in Forsyth County GA -- didn't find a connection, but interesting to the extreme. If you run in to any Rainwaters here in the Union (Mecklenburg/Anson) County area, I'd sure like to see them -- and see what NA group, Catawba or . . . Thanks again, Kay Chaney, Stegall, Helms, and many others there in NC. ~~~~ Genealogy: http://home.earthlink.net/~kmcgee03/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cousins At 06:07 PM 09/23/2000 -0700, you wrote: >Kay, I know what you are referring too, but cannot remember the dates >involved. :) I was reading some information on native americans in Va >and it seems that the terms "mulatto" was not officially used there >until 1832. So how were Native Americans enumerated? If you believe >Plecker and some others, most of the native americans were gone from Va by >the late 1700s. ><snip> >It was some members of the Charity family that intermarried with the >Walden family. > >Linda > >http://members.tripod.com/~Linda_T > >Threadgill, Copeland, Harrison, Parker, Boon, Sullivan, Leake, Manus, >Moore, Williams, Austin, Horn, Howell, Weaver, Eley and many others.

Kay, I know what you are referring too, but cannot remember the dates involved. :) I was reading some information on native americans in Va and it seems that the terms "mulatto" was not officially used there until 1832. So how were Native Americans enumerated? If you believe Plecker and some others, most of the native americans were gone from Va by the late 1700s. In the mid 1800's you might find some of them that were living close to theNC/Va border working in the Great Dismal Swamp. As for other parts of NC, I am not sure. One thing that I have been wondering about is, with the states of Va and SC having some many free people of color living within their borders, how would the people in NC be counted? I am thinking they were counted mostly as black. I have seen this happen with my family who in earlier years were considered mulatto and in later years they were counted as black. If they were fair enough to "pass", they would then be considered as white. It is also my understanding that in Va, native americans were not permitted to own land and so some intermarried with other races to accomplish this. When I want to do a search for native americans or free people of color, I just to a particular archive and enter the word "colored" or negro. Also, the Afrigeneas website as well as their mailing list is a good source of information. Christine Charity's website at http://www.ccharity.com is great! Christine has freedman's records on her site. Chris Moore and Angela Walton Raji also have sites dealing with people who would be consider considered mixed race. I cannot remember their web addresses. My mixed race surnames are Threadgill, Boon, Copeland, Harrison, Thomas, Massenburg, Charity, Green, McKenzie, McCaleb, Weaver, Johns, Dickinson, Dodd, Bell, Miles, Adkins, Goings, Goodwyn, Austin, Mason,Bradby, Liggins, Hubbard, Wade, Hairston, Campbell, Alvarez (Beale), West, Avent, Seaborn, Givens,Ford, Lowe, Hill,Howell, Moore, Briggs to name a few. :) It was some members of the Charity family that intermarried with the Walden family. Linda http://members.tripod.com/~Linda_T Threadgill, Copeland, Harrison, Parker, Boon, Sullivan, Leake, Manus, Moore, Williams, Austin, Horn, Howell, Weaver, Eley and many others.

Thanks Linda. Do you know of any more sites that discuss the ins and outs of color and how they're listed on records? I've been told that mulatto might and might not mean mixed blood, but NA. I understand too that at one time marriage was not legally/socially confined within one race, that that stricture occurred later on in NC history? So silence is not golden, as they said in the old days, but very confusing and could mean anything? As usual, I'm confused big time. By the way, I found on the NW Georgia site: http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~nwga/ more links to NA sites. Kay McGee ~~~~ Genealogy: http://home.earthlink.net/~kmcgee03/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cousins At 10:02 AM 09/23/2000 -0700, you wrote: >I have been reading these posts and would like to suggest that anyone >looking for NA connections in the states of Md, De, Va, and NC check >Paul Heinegg's website at http://www.freeafricanamericans.com . > >If family did not talk about the native americans in your family it >could very well be that they were free people of color which would >encompass a large group of people, i.e. the WALDEN family who were >listed from Surry County, Va. This family along with many others are >listed on Heinegg's website as well as in his books. > >Linda > >http://members.tripod.com/~Linda_T > >Threadgill, Copeland, Harrison, Parker, Boon, Sullivan, Leake, Manus, >Moore, Williams, Austin, Horn, Howell, Weaver, Eley and many others.

I have been reading these posts and would like to suggest that anyone looking for NA connections in the states of Md, De, Va, and NC check Paul Heinegg's website at http://www.freeafricanamericans.com . If family did not talk about the native americans in your family it could very well be that they were free people of color which would encompass a large group of people, i.e. the WALDEN family who were listed from Surry County, Va. This family along with many others are listed on Heinegg's website as well as in his books. Linda http://members.tripod.com/~Linda_T Threadgill, Copeland, Harrison, Parker, Boon, Sullivan, Leake, Manus, Moore, Williams, Austin, Horn, Howell, Weaver, Eley and many others.

Thank for the good sources!! It's super that at least these two rolls have been put online . . . . I suspect the NA in Maryrella & my (or cousin's) lines will be earlier :-( or where females married to Whites and therefore (as I understand it) didn't show up on these rolls. I'll definitely be visiting your suggestions -- just in case! Thanks much, Kay McGee At 11:04 PM 09/22/2000 -0400, you wrote: >For searching Native American Roots, you may want to try these sites >(census of Native Americans): > >Chapman Roll of Eastern Cherokees >http://www.tngenweb.org/cherokee_by_blood/chapman.htm > >The Siler Rolls >http://members.aol.com/lredtail/siler.html

For searching Native American Roots, you may want to try these sites (census of Native Americans): <A HREF="http://www.tngenweb.org/cherokee_by_blood/chapman.htm">Chapman Roll of Eastern Cherokees</A> or http://www.tngenweb.org/cherokee_by_blood/chapman.htm <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/lredtail/siler.html">The Siler Rolls</A> http://members.aol.com/lredtail/siler.html

Hi, Kay, Tina and list - I was interested in the post concerning STEGALL and possible Native America ancestry. Family tradition holds that my mother's mother was descended from a Native American line - It was the kind of thing that the family wouldn't talk about for many years - but my mother's aunts, when they were old, said it was true. Let me briefly list that line and see if any of the names ring a bell with anyone in relation to NA. 1. My grandmother was Rella Jane HANEY, (1889-1922) 2. Her parents were Ebenezer HANEY (b. 1855, Union Co NC- d.1935, Union Co AR) and Nancy Elvira HASTY (b. 1850 in Union Co NC; d. 1910, Union Co. AR) 3.Parents of Eb HANEY: David James Haney (b. 1832 Union Co NC; d. 1864, VA) and Margaret Jane ROGERS (b. 1830 Anson Co NC; d. 1906, Union Co AR) Parents of Nancy Elvira HASTY: William HASTY and Rachel WALDEN. 4. Parents of David James HANEY: William Sprears HANEY and Sarah Jane MARSH. Parents of Margaret Jane ROGERS: Rushing Rogers and Mary Raynor. Parents of William Hasty - Peebles HASTY and Nancy HANEY. Parents of Rachel WALDEN - ????? 5. Parents of Rushing Rogers - Thomas ROGERS and Winnifred COLLINS. As Kay knows (we are kin to lots of the same folks) I am related to Stegalls, too. Kay, I visited your web page and noted that the Stegall line that is mine is the second list of Stegalls . That would be the line beginning with Joseph and Sara Jane HASTY. So if Tina comes from the other line, I guess maybe we aren't related - at least through that line? Anyway - I don't think my NA line is Rogers, though it's possible. I've read that the Collins line may be NA, but I have no info on that line or the RAYNOR line. Any clues on any of this? Is anyone else in Anson/Union Co NC searching for NA roots? Thanks! Mary in SC

K. MCGEE.... I looked at your website and also notice ellis stegall msrried to mary A. Helms . I understand my 2x's great mother was also a child of ellis M. stegall. She was cora Alice Stegall. she married Walter A. Stegall. I am told she was full blooded cherokee. She was a stegall who married a Stegall. first cousins I believe. Did you get my email. Thanks, tina Tarlton Smith My line also comes from Griffin Stegall who was married to Mary Nance and second Ollie Minvera Ross Tarlton.

Thanks Tina, yes I did and you should have a note in your mailbox now. I'd be interested in Cora Alice's NA heritage -- was it from her Stegall line or her mother's? What makes you think she is Cherokee and not one of the other groups in the Carolinas? My cousin's Adcock line is supposed to be NA through the Rainwaters. Thanks, Kay McGee ~~~~ Genealogy: http://home.earthlink.net/~kmcgee03/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cousins At 10:37 PM 09/21/2000 -0700, you wrote: >K. MCGEE.... >I looked at your website and also notice ellis stegall msrried to mary A. >Helms . I understand my 2x's great mother was also a child of ellis M. >stegall. She was cora Alice Stegall. she married Walter A. Stegall. I am >told she was full blooded cherokee. She was a stegall who married a >Stegall. first cousins I believe. >Did you get my email. >Thanks, tina Tarlton Smith >My line also comes from Griffin Stegall who was married to Mary Nance and >second Ollie Minvera Ross Tarlton.

Any Pope descendants? I am looking for My 2's great papa T. Jeff Pope married to martha Rebecca Liary. thnaks, tina

Does anyone know who this Stegall is: Esq. Stegall? I'm related to the group of Stegalls there in Monroe through my Chaney grandmother and hadn't heard of either a lawyer or one named as if they were. This is my line: 1-- Moses Stegall [I] (1735-1840) Of,,Virginia sp-FNU MNU (1735-1840) 2-- Thomas Stegall [I] (1783-1845) Jamestown,Surry County,Virginia sp-Elizabeth Vann (1783-1818) sp-Sarah or Sally Jane Corzine or Kazine (1790- ) 3-- Burton Culpepper Stegall (1820- ) ,Anson County,North Carolina sp-Rena MNU ( - ) 4-- Frances E. Stegall (1842-1893) ,Anson County,North Carolina sp-Julius A. Chaney (1844-1904) Of Union County,North Carolina Thanks much, Kay McGee ps I should mention that I have another line of Stegalls attached to my family lines, so have more of an interest in other Stegalls other than my own. <g> K ~~~~ Genealogy: http://home.earthlink.net/~kmcgee03/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cousins At 08:19 PM 09/20/2000 -0400, you wrote: >Union Co, NC Marriages 1843-1899: >Caldwell Tarlton to "Nervy" Ross April 25, 1858, by Esq. Stegall. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tina Tarlton Smith" <[email protected]> <snip>

Is there a marriage between Cadwell Tarlton and Ollie(Olly)Minerva Jane Ross? thanks again. Tina Tarlton Smith

Hi I am looking for my Pope family. T. Jeff Pope married Martha Rebecca Liary This could be Thomas Jefferson Pope I am told they were Irish.(Pope) Don't know the marriage date ....hope someone can tell me. May have married in union county, NC Thanks, Tina Tarlton Smith