I have either deleted or can't find the original posting for the following so this may be a different family altogether. Is this the same Johann Adam Fiscus who married Anna Elisabeth Spainhour and migrated to Indiana? I found a Web page that attributes a second marriage for him to Eva Maria Helsabeck. but I believe this is in error. Eva Maria Fiscus was John Adam's sister and she was married to Jacob Henry Helsabeck. Could someone have gotten the two confused? Just Wondering >>The HELSABECK family, can be found on The Shouse House page & again, the >>Jarvis Family Home Page. John, if you don't find the parents of Eva >>Maria Helsabeck who married Johann Adam Fiscus on the Jarvis Page I am >>sure someone will step in and let you know. The List of children I have >>for Jacob Helsabeck & Eva Maria Fiscus do not include the name of an Eva >>Maria Helsebeck. > >I haven't checked to see what Faye and I have on our web page yet, but my >personal database agrees with Marilyn, no child named Eva Maria Helsabeck >for Jacob Helsabeck and Eva Maria Fiscus. It wouldn't have been >unreasonable for them to have had one with this name, however. Are we >missing one? Or does she belong to someone else? Philip N. Spainhour [email protected]

HELLO! I'm new to this list, and looking for information on my gr gr grandfather. R. T. SHORES b. ? d. ? m. JENNIE JANINGS date? b. ? d. ? They had one child that I know of PHILLIP H. SHORES b. 15-Apr-1840 Nashville, Davidson, TN. d. 15-Feb-1923 Beatrice, Gage, NE. m. MARTHA JANE SEELEY 1865 b. 08-Sep-1839 MO. d. 05-Mar-1911 Beatrice, Gage, NE. Any information would be appreciated Thanks Norman Nebraska Please contact me directly. [email protected]

Looking for children of (1) Leonard Aldridge, b. 1809 Stokes Co, married April 18, 1809 Stokes to Catherine Flynt (no dates), d/o John Flynt (1748 VA -1821 Stokes) and Catherine Meredith (d. 1821 VA) and (2) John R. Davis (no dates) married July 13, 1805 Stokes to Fanny Flynt (no dates), s/o John Flynt and Catherine Meredith (above) These Flynts lived in the Meadows area. Thanks. John Speight

I have in my notes that three Hicks`s show up in the 1830 Stokes County census - John, James, and Howell. Wonder if someone might look at the 1820 census for the Hicks name and let me know which Hicks`s are in Stokes County at that time. Thank You! Jerry Hicks

Dear Ted, The Muddy Creek Meeting was established in 1771 and became a preparative meeting in 1785 and was merged with Union Meeting in 1818. It is located on the outskirts of Kernersville. Hinshaw says two mile but with urban sprawl it is probably closer. It is hard to see unless you know what you are looking for on that road. When I was in Kernersville fourteen years ago. I went to the police station to ask about it. They didn't know anything about it. They called a local historian who knew where it was. I got a police escort to the cemetery. Most of the markers are field stones, a few modern stones such as the Clarence Whicker monument. You can identify the cemetery by that big monument and name. The informatrion on the meet ing is from Hinshaw's volume one, "The Encyclopedia of American Quaker Genealogy". I hope this helps uou. H.N. GRimes, M.D. [email protected] _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Thanks, Marilyn, for your kind words! I can't answer most of the questions you raise, but they're good ones. Can anyone else answer them? We have enough people on this list now that this kind of exchange should be very productive. >Isaac BONER married Dorothea (Dorel) Elizabeth MEYER, 8 Aug 1797. >Dorothea was the daughter of Jacob Meyer & younger sister of (Phillip) >Jacob Myers. I do not know what Boner family Isaac comes from but he >was a hatter & had several apprentices residing with his young family in >Bethania, 1810. I believe Isaac BONER (17 Dec 1776 - 3 Aug 1858) was the son of Joseph Wilhelm BONER (b. 1747?) and Margaret ELROD (1752-1820), who married in May 1771 in Hope, Forsyth Co. I have a problem with Joseph Boner's death date, however. ELROD family records (Dr. Parker Elrod) give it as 29 Jul 1785. The Hope Moravian graveyard (from the Forsyth Co. cemetery records books) has Joseph W. Boner age 37 years, died 13 Aug 1786. Either of these dates presents another problem as well. The Elrod family material I have says that Joseph and Margaret's youngest daughter Alsha (or Aaltje) was born 12 Jul 1787, which is inconsistent with either of the death dates given above. Can anybody clarify this? Dr. Parker Elrod, who is now deceased, compiled copious notes on the Elrod family. Various ones of us Elrod descendants have circulated photocopies of these. They are quite useful, but not always internally consistent. Marilyn wrote: >Isaac BONER married Dorothea (Dorel) Elizabeth MEYER, 8 Aug 1797. >Dorothea was the daughter of Jacob Meyer & younger sister of (Phillip) >Jacob Myers. I do not know what Boner family Isaac comes from but he >was a hatter & had several apprentices residing with his young family in >Bethania, 1810. He & Dorothea Elizabeth were lifetime members of the >Moravian Church in Stokes Co. and are well documented in Adelaide Fries, >Records of the Moravians in NC. I would like to find someone currently >researching this family that is a descendant of Isaac & Dorothea. They >had four sons and one daughter. Marilyn alludes to the Records of the Moravians in NC. I hope the copyright holders for this work will forgive me a brief quote concerning this couple: Records 6:2592. "Salem Board Minutes (Aelt. Conf.). Last evening the two single women, Dorothea Meyer and Salome Nissen, left the congregation secretly and in a most unseemly manner. The former proposes to marry Isaac Booner and the latter Jacob Schaub, by whom they were taken away. In the girls' school the place of Dorothea Meyer [as teacher of the older girls] becomes vacant." There is a footnote to this page: "Both couples were married on the day they left Salem. They lived near Bethania, and Jacob and Salome Schaub joined the Bethania congregation. Isaac and Dorothea Boner ultimately returned to Salem, and became the grandparents of the poet, John Henry Boner, and of Joshua Boner, mayor of Salem at the time of the so-called "Stoneman's raid" near the close of the War between the States." Finally, regarding Marilyn's other comment: >The HELSABECK family, can be found on The Shouse House page & again, the >Jarvis Family Home Page. John, if you don't find the parents of Eva >Maria Helsabeck who married Johann Adam Fiscus on the Jarvis Page I am >sure someone will step in and let you know. The List of children I have >for Jacob Helsabeck & Eva Maria Fiscus do not include the name of an Eva >Maria Helsebeck. I haven't checked to see what Faye and I have on our web page yet, but my personal database agrees with Marilyn, no child named Eva Maria Helsabeck for Jacob Helsabeck and Eva Maria Fiscus. It wouldn't have been unreasonable for them to have had one with this name, however. Are we missing one? Or does she belong to someone else? Elizabeth Harris [email protected] state coordinator for NCGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncgenweb/

Thank you everyone for your suggestions and help. I have the following information to share and some to follow up on now. Sue, I also have found Elizabeth Harris and the Moran/Jarvis Family Home Page to be the host of marvelous information. I thank Elizabeth for hosting this List for all Stokes Co. researchers. Your own page is full of unending information & links with much food for thought. According to the "Records of the Moravians of North Carolina" by Adelaide Fries, I know that Jacob Meyer & Maria Dorothea (Miller) Meyer arrived in Bethabara, NC from Lititz, PA, 1 Jun 1767 to take charge of the Tavern. So your PA information will be good to follow up on. I offer the following information in reference to MEYER & SCHAUSS with no proof of relationship to the Meyer family I am researching. Johannes Schauss, b Sep 10, 1743, son of Jacob Georg & Anna Margaretha Jacob Meyer, b Jul 26, 1744, baptized Sep 30, 1744, son of Johannes & Barbara Meyer Source: Baptismal Records, Moravian Church, Lancaster, PA. Film #0020371, LDS Library Regarding the HELSABECK & SCHOUS line some information came from the Jarvis Family Home Page & the Shouse House Home Page showing family lines & viewing microfilm showing that Elizabeth Helsabeck married Frederick Shauss, 21 Sep 1787; Frederick Helsabeck was the bondsman. Frederick Shous was the bondsman at the marriage of (Philip)Jacob Myers and Susannah Helsepeck, his sister-in-law, 27 Mar 1791, Stokes Co. And, once again, after Philip Jacob Myers died in 1801, Frederick Shouse is bondsman at the second marriage of his sister-in-law, Susanna (Helsabeck) Myers to Godfrey Miller, 1 Jan 1803. I do not have any information on the MILLERS, either Dorothea (Miller) Meyer's parents or siblings or the Miller family Godfrey comes from. I would like to know where Godfrey & Susan Miller are buried. They made their home in Bethania according to the census of that time period. Isaac BONER married Dorothea (Dorel) Elizabeth MEYER, 8 Aug 1797. Dorothea was the daughter of Jacob Meyer & younger sister of (Phillip) Jacob Myers. I do not know what Boner family Isaac comes from but he was a hatter & had several apprentices residing with his young family in Bethania, 1810. He & Dorothea Elizabeth were lifetime members of the Moravian Church in Stokes Co. and are well documented in Adelaide Fries, Records of the Moravians in NC. I would like to find someone currently researching this family that is a descendant of Isaac & Dorothea. They had four sons and one daughter. The HELSABECK family, can be found on The Shouse House page & again, the Jarvis Family Home Page. John, if you don't find the parents of Eva Maria Helsabeck who married Johann Adam Fiscus on the Jarvis Page I am sure someone will step in and let you know. The List of children I have for Jacob Helsabeck & Eva Maria Fiscus do not include the name of an Eva Maria Helsebeck. I hope I have been of some help, I know the List has certainly helped me! Marilyn

My gg Grandfather, John Grimes migrated to Indiana from Stokes County in 1833. He was a Lutheran and married Mary Pike, a Quaker. He was the son of George and Susanna Grimes of Davidson County and probably the grandson of Adam Greim Who arrived on the Anderson in 1751 with Sebastian Greim John Grimes and his wife, Mary, lived in the vicinity of Kernersville in the vicinity of the Muddy Creek Meeting near his inlaws, the Pikes, Williams, and Whickers. I have birth dates and death dates etc. but no personal information on them. Does anybody have any family history mentioning them ? H.N. Grimes, M.D. [email protected] _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

At 12:50 PM -0500 12/6/1998, Janice Shives wrote: >As I remember there were no changes at all to the services or the doctrine >when >the merger took place, so I think you can assume that Evangelical United >Brethern has been very similiar to Methodist for many, many years. Hi Janice, This is very interesting! Do you know whether it was only your congregation or was it church-wide? The Moravians and Methodists have a long history. Here are some of my notes on the Moravian Church during the Zinzendorf period. You will see Charles and John Wesley, who founded the Methodists, mentioned several times: 1732: Herrnhut, Saxony - first Easter Sunrise service on God's Acre <Sun 1732: Herrnhut, Saxony - arrival of Lutheran minister Augustus Spangenberg <Lang 84 1732: West Indies - arrival of Moravian missionaries <Frie vi 1733: Greenland - arrival of Moravian missionaries <Lang 86 1734: Zinzendorf ordained minister <Lang 86 1735: Georgia - Moravian colonists arrive under leadership of Spangenberg <Frie vi, Lang 86 1735: Lapland - arrival of Moravian missionaries among Swedish Laplanders <Lang 87 1735: David Nitschmann sent to Lizza Poland to be ordained bishop by Dr. Jablonsky, elder bishop of the Brethern <Lang 88 1735: Zinzendorf exiled from Saxony <Lang 88 1735: Surinam - 3 missionaries sent <Lang 160 1735 - 1737: Georgia - Charles and John WESLEY, with Bishop Nitschmann and 25 Moravians, travel to Georgia; impressed with the faith of the Brethern <Lang 99 1736: Ronneberg and Marienborn (later called Herrnhaag = Lord's Grove) - Zinzendorf establishes colonies in ruined castles of brother in law <Lang 91 1736: Marienborn - first Synod of the Reconstituted Church of the Brethern <Lang 93 1737: Herrnhut, Saxony - Second commission from King of Saxony acquits the Brethern of blame (heresey and encouragement of Bohemian emigration) <Lang 90 1737: Zinzendorf visits England, meets with General Oglethorpe re. Georgia <Lang 94 1737: London - archbishop of Cantebury grants Brethren right to preach to the heathens in English colonies <Lang 94 1737: Berlin - Zinzendorf ordained bishop <Lang 95 1738: London - John and Charles WESLEY, under influence of Moravian Peter Boehler, experience evangelical conversion in May <Lang 104 1738: London - first meeting of Temple Bar society on May 1; society soon comes under Moravian influence; later becomes Fetter Lane society <Lang 118 1738: Herrnhut, Saxony - John WESLEY, Benjamin Ingham, and John Toeltschig visit Moravians Jun - Aug <Lang 106 1738: Herrnhaag becomes resting place for missionaries <Lang 134 1738 -1740: Surinam - more missionaries sent <Lang 160 1739: West Indies - Zinzendorf visits missions in St. Thomas <Lang 96 1739 - 1740: London - John WESLEY breaks with Moravians over 'stillness' issue which is later refuted by Moravians <Lang 120 1740: Pennsylvania - Moravian colonists arrive <Frie vi 1740: Synod at Gotha establishes church's mode of operation as 'free congregation of Jesus' working with other churches; make no attempt to proselytize; adopted 'diaspora' method of establishing 'societies' rather than Brethren churches in their mission <Lang 111 1740: Last of the brethren leave Georgia and settle on METHODIST George Whitefield's land in Nazareth, Pennsylvania <Lang 113 1740: Bethlehem, PA - land for settlement offered to David Nitschmann and newly arrived Moravians <Lang 114 1741: Church leaders vote not to replace chief elder Dober and accept Christ alone as chief elder <Lang 112 1741: Zinzendorf resigns as bishop; David Nitschmann, inspector of the seminary, elected at Herrnhaag <Lang 113 1741 - 1742 : Bethlehem, PA - Zinzendorf visits under disguise as Luthern minister; tries to establish unity of German settlers of various sects <Lang 113-117 1742: Zinzendorf makes last of three visits among Indians whom Christian Henry Rauch had evangelized <Lang 115 1743 - 1750: London - Moravians infected by excess of sentimental language and frivolous use of the lot <Lang 123 1745: Surinam - Moravians leave colony for Pennsylvania and Rio de Berbice <Lang 160 1746: Ireland - John Cennick established society in Dublin and a colony (Gracehill) in Northern Ireland <Lang 132 1747: Saxony - royal decree ends Zinzendorf's exile <Lang 134 1748 - 1750: Herrnhaag - disputes with the House of Buedingen leads to Brethern leaving colony; 90 single men to Pennsylvania, others to Saxony, Silesia, Holland, etc <Lang 135 1749: London - Church of the Brethren recognized by Parliament and Crown <Lang 133 1749: Saxony - Brethern given right to from settlements anywhere in Saxony <Lang 135 1751: Herrnhut, Saxony - death of Christian David <Lang 137 1753 - : London - Zinzendorf's Lindsay House is church headquarters <Lang 136 1755 - 1757: Surniam - missionaries attempt to reestablish colony <Lang 161 1757: Herrnhut, Saxony - following the death Countess, Count Zinzendorf marries Anna Nitschmann and takes up residence in Herrnhut <Lang 138 1760: Herrnhut, Saxony - in presence of 100 people Zinzendorf dies on May 9 <Lang 138 Taken mostly from: <LANG Langton, Edward; History of the Moravian Church; the Story of the First International Protestant Church; London, George Allen & Unwin Ltd, 1956. (King library) --- Mike Warren <http://www.netunlimited.net/~mwarren> Sine Nomine Farm, Tobaccoville, NC

At 12:51 PM -0500 12/6/1998, Janice Shives wrote: >Now that I have said that I want to ask the list a question. I had an >ancestor who might have been a Baptist minister in Stokes County around >1790. His name was John Newman. I found this information on a >reproduction of an old Stokes County map. He was the minister of the >Soapstone Creek Baptist Church in Northern Stokes County. I visited >Stokes County last summer and think I found the area where this church >once stood. Hi Janice, Where was the Soapstone church located? Have you checked The Baptist Historical Collection at the Wake Forest University Library? They have collected letters, diaries and other documents from various NC Baptist churches and ministers. The mailing address is (was? I have an old brochure): P.O. Box 7777, Reynolda Station, Winston-Salem, NC 27109. By now they may even have something online, I haven't checked: http://www.wfu.edu The director is John Woodward, who has been very helpful to researchers I know. There is something similar at Duke University for Methodist churches. Good luck with your search! --- Mike Warren <http://www.netunlimited.net/~mwarren> Sine Nomine Farm, Tobaccoville, NC

Marilyn, You might have a pattern typical of Moravian migration between PA and NC. Please visit Moravian Church Genealogy Links at http://www.enter.net/~smschlack . MEYER and BLUM are on my Immigrant (1734) and Early Moravian SURNAMES page. Adolf MEYER was an MD sent to care for Moravian congregations in Pennsylvania. He arrived in Philadelphia on June 7, 1742. Franz BLUM joined the Moravian congregation in Bethlehem, PA in December of 1742. This family was from Lehigh or Northampton County, PA. BLUM also appears on the Early Moravian Settlers (1753) of Forsythe Co., NC link. Thanks for this link go to Elizabeth Harris (sponsor of NCSTOKES-L and NCGenWeb Coordinator) and her cousin Faye Moran. Their BLUM page mentions the first generation to move from Bethlehem, PA to North Carolina. The Moravians traveled more frequently than you might imagine between congregations and mission stations all over the Eastern Seaboard! Sue

Marilyn S. Weinrich wrote: > > Thank you for including Stokes Co. & Moravian History with shared > information in this List. I am researching the Meyer/Myers/Meyers > family from Stokes Co. 1767 to 1816 and have found wonderful help among > the records and those sharing information on the internet. > > I am also seeing familiar names as I read the List mail. The latest is > the name of Jacob Blum who was a witness named on Jacob Meyer's will > written 21 Jun 1794 along with Philip Transu. When the will was proved > in court, March Term, 1801, Jacob Blum was the only witness named. > > I found a great deal of history involving the Jacob Meyer family as he > maintained the Salem Tavern from 1772 to 1787/88 in the book "The Quiet > People of the Land - A Story of the North Carolina Moravians in > Revolutionary Times." by James Hunter. I recommend it for anyone doing > research in Moravian Records in those Revolutionary times. > > I also would like to recommend "The Moravian Potters in North Carolina" > by John Bivins, Jr. for all the genealogical surnames it includes with > histories of the workers and apprentices. Jacob Meyer's son, Philipp > Jacob Meyer/Myers is chronicled along with John F. Holland who earlier > had been a worker in the tavern with the Meyer family. > > Would any of you know of such a book on HATTERS or any records that may > have named Hatter apprentices between 1800 and 1814? > > I am researching the MEYER/MYERS,HELSABECK/HILSABECK, BONER & MILLER > families of the above mentioned time period. > > Any help would be much appreciated. Marilyn Weinrich, No. Highlands, CA

Hi Y'all, I am trying to find the parents of JAMES and JOHN LARIMER who moved from NC to Bedford Co., TN in the early 1800s. In the 1830s they moved to Calloway Co. (now Marshall Co.) KY. They married sisters, daughters of RIDLEY MORGAN and wife URSULA ?. James married Martha Morgan and John married Mary Polly Williams Morgan. I found a JAMES LARIMER in Stokes Co., NC. Can anyone tell me anything about him and if he is connected to my Larimers? Any information on any of these people will be greatly appreciated. Doris

I am seeking any information that may be available for the "Father" of Johannes Schemel, born October 1, 1746 in Oley Pennsylvania. Johannes's Mother was Anna Margaretha Geiger, born January 18, 1722 in Wurtemberg, Germany. She died February 11, 1803 near Bethbara North Carolina and was buried in the Dobbs Parish Cemetery, Stokes County North Carolina. I have good records and can directly trace my line to Johannes, but I lack conclusive proof on his father. All we know is that he passed away when Johannes was three years old. About 1749. The name Shamel is derived from it’s German Root of Schemel. The name Schemel has different spellings but fortunately, many records list alternatives. The variations that have been found and cross referenced with each other, are as follows: Schamel Schemel (also Schemmel) Schemelin Sheymel Schimel (also Schimmel) Schömel (also Schömmel) In my attempt to trace Johannes's father backwards, a search, of the early ship’s passenger lists, found the only Schemel listed as arriving in the Americas early enough to be the father of Johannes. This was a "Palatine" named Johannes Schimmel, aged 26, who came from Rotterdam to the Philadelphia on the Queen Elizabeth, September 16, 1738. In my ongoing research, I have come across several Shamel Lines that I could not connect back to Johannes Schimmel. So it is unclear if more than one immigrant is responsible for the 400 some Shamel’s residing in the United States today. Family traditions would seem to support this possibility. So, if anyone has information on a Schemel or Schimmel who immigrated to America in the early 1700's I would appreciate hearing from you. Also, if anyone has information on later Shamel or Schemel immigrations. I am still trying to connect some Shamel's to my tree, or find their origins. Researching / Shamel / Schemel /Schemmel/ Schamel / Schemelin / Sheymel / Schimel / Schimmel / Schömel / Schömmel / Mike Shamel [email protected] http://members.home.net/mshamel/ ============================

Stokes County Rooters Don't apologize for including historical information on the list. It is vitially important to understand the history of an area and the religion, etc. of our ancestors to get any meaning of their lives. This can also help us to clear up many misunderstandings and guide us down the right path. History is very important to genealogy. Now that I have said that I want to ask the list a question. I had an ancestor who might have been a Baptist minister in Stokes County around 1790. His name was John Newman. I found this information on a reproduction of an old Stokes County map. He was the minister of the Soapstone Creek Baptist Church in Northern Stokes County. I visited Stokes County last summer and think I found the area where this church once stood. Does anyone have an information about that church or any suggestions where I could find information? Is there anyone out there researching the NEWMAN family of Stokes County? Janice Shives

Dennis Brubaker wrote: > Hi Mike, > I have found several marriages performed by ministers of the EVANGELICAL > UNITED BRETHERN. Is this the same as the Moravian Church or a branch? The > marriages were performed in West Virginia. > > > the Moravian Church (officially the Unity of Brethren, founded in 1457) > > Thanks, > Cathy The Evangelical United Brethern church was, I think, very similiar to the Methodist Church. I used to attend an Evangelical United Brethern church for many years when I was a child, and it mergeed with the Methodist Church. That was an association merger, probably in the 60's. The churches from this merger are now called the United Methodist churches. As I remember there were no changes at all to the services or the doctrine when the merger took place, so I think you can assume that Evangelical United Brethern has been very similiar to Methodist for many, many years. Janice Shives

At 9:55 PM -0500 12/4/1998, Dennis Brubaker wrote: >I have found several marriages performed by ministers of the EVANGELICAL >UNITED BRETHERN. Is this the same as the Moravian Church or a branch? The >marriages were performed in West Virginia. Probably not. There are many religious groups with "brethren" in their name, most have German origins but aren't Moravian -- very confusing -- but I believe "The Unity of Brethren" is unique. It's possible they had a connection to the Moravians or modeled themselves on the Moravians (hard to say), who were successful in creating well-ordered communities in the wilderness. According to the Moravian directory of congregations, there was no Moravian church in West Virginia (as of 4/87.) Another interesting aspect of the Moravians was their missionary program. When the English Parliament granted them the freedom to form a community and practice their religion in NC, the goal was to perform missionary work with the local Indians. One of the conditions of the generous land grant was to minister to and doctor the English settlers who were sparsely scattered over the wilderness of Piedmont NC. Because the Anglican church had trouble persuading priests to leave the comforts of coastal Carolina, the Moravians were seen as a civilizing influence. So, it's possible many non-Moravian English settlers were married by Unity of Brethren ministers. John Speight<[email protected]> wrote: >No freedom of religion in the Virginia Colony either, except the >Anglican Church. Interesting, John! I'm glad you brought up Virginia. Many old Stokes Co families migrated from Tidewater Virginia after stopping a few generations in Southside Virginia (the VA counties bordering NC). It also reminds me of one of my favorite little books, Carl Bridenbaugh's "Myths & Realties; Societies of the Colonial South" (Atheneum, NY, 1965.) Bridenbaugh gives a good overview of the differences among the societies of Tidewater Virginia, Coastal Carolina, and Back Settlements (Stokes!) and talks a lot about the various religious groups. I highly recommend it! I apologize for the slightly off-topic historical discussion but I believe an historical context is very important in genealogical research. Without that context you can make some bad assumptions, for example, the term "plantation," which appears in many Stokes Co. wills and deeds, does not have the same connotation as it would in the rice culture of SC, nevermind the Hollywood notion of a plantation. In other words, when you read about your ancestors' Stokes County tobacco plantation, don't be thinking about Scarlet O'Hara and Tara Plantation <G> --- Mike Warren <http://www.netunlimited.net/~mwarren> Sine Nomine Farm, Tobaccoville, NC

No freedom of religion in the Virginia Colony either, except the Anglican Church. All sorts of reformists were chased away as official policy - Baptists, Quakers, Lutherans, whatever. Part of the problem was that these reformists didn't want to support their own churches and communities and at the same time pay tithes to the Church of England. Anglican churches in the Virginia Colonies were the governing bodies in many instances, built roads, approved licenses for ordinaries (early "motels"!), collected taxes, etc. John Speight -----Original Message----- From: Mike Warren <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 4:46 PM Subject: Re: [NCSTOKES-L] Re: Moravian Beliefs >At 9:09 AM -0500 12/2/1998, Susan Schlack wrote: >>The Moravian Church is a mainstream Protestant church, very similar to the >>Lutheran Church. In fact, the man who renewed the church in Germany, Count >>Zinzendorf, was a Lutheran. > >While there may be similarities with the Lutheran Church, the Moravian >Church (officially the Unity of Brethren, founded in 1457) actually >preceded the Lutherans by 60 years. The Brethren were followers of Jan Hus >who was burned at the stake for challenging the Roman Catholic Church. >After a successful early period in which the church spread to other parts >of Eastern Europe, wars and persecutions forced them underground; they >resurfaced in Saxony. As you pointed out Count Zinzendorf helped the >Brethren renew themselves by letting them form a colony on his land. >Although he tried to make his guests conform to the Lutheran Church (he had >very good political reasons for doing so), he eventually broke with the >Lutherans and became a Brethren. After he was ordained a minister (later >bishop) he was exiled from his own lands. > >>From a historian's point of view, the most interesting feature of the >Church is its tolerance of differing Christian creeds. Because it was >inclusive as opposed to exclusive, the Moravian Church was the beneficiary >of numerous doctrinal disputes among Lutherans and other protestant sects >of 18th century Pennsylvania. Perhaps because they tolerated other >beliefs, they were in turn tolerated in foreign lands and eventually formed >congregations all over the world. For example, the English Parliament >granted the Church the freedom to practice their religion both in England >and certain Anglican Colonies (e.g., NC) where there was no freedom of >religion. In both England and America the Moravians were an influence on >the early Methodists, namely John and Charles Wesley, protestants of the >protestants. If anyone is interested, I have made a timeline of church >history, too long to post here. > >To bring this back to geneaology, my ancestors, Franz Blum and Catharina >Steiger, immigrated from the German Palatinate in 1730. They left their >church (Lutheran?) to join the Moravians at Bethlehem, PA in 1743. Their >son Jacob moved to Bethabara, NC in 1758. I'd be interested in sharing >information on PA/NC Blums (Bluhme, Blume, Bloom), Steigers, and Borns. > > >--- >Mike Warren <http://www.netunlimited.net/~mwarren> >Sine Nomine Farm, Tobaccoville, NC > > >

Hi Mike, I have found several marriages performed by ministers of the EVANGELICAL UNITED BRETHERN. Is this the same as the Moravian Church or a branch? The marriages were performed in West Virginia. > the Moravian Church (officially the Unity of Brethren, founded in 1457) Thanks, Cathy

At 9:09 AM -0500 12/2/1998, Susan Schlack wrote: >The Moravian Church is a mainstream Protestant church, very similar to the >Lutheran Church. In fact, the man who renewed the church in Germany, Count >Zinzendorf, was a Lutheran. While there may be similarities with the Lutheran Church, the Moravian Church (officially the Unity of Brethren, founded in 1457) actually preceded the Lutherans by 60 years. The Brethren were followers of Jan Hus who was burned at the stake for challenging the Roman Catholic Church. After a successful early period in which the church spread to other parts of Eastern Europe, wars and persecutions forced them underground; they resurfaced in Saxony. As you pointed out Count Zinzendorf helped the Brethren renew themselves by letting them form a colony on his land. Although he tried to make his guests conform to the Lutheran Church (he had very good political reasons for doing so), he eventually broke with the Lutherans and became a Brethren. After he was ordained a minister (later bishop) he was exiled from his own lands. >From a historian's point of view, the most interesting feature of the Church is its tolerance of differing Christian creeds. Because it was inclusive as opposed to exclusive, the Moravian Church was the beneficiary of numerous doctrinal disputes among Lutherans and other protestant sects of 18th century Pennsylvania. Perhaps because they tolerated other beliefs, they were in turn tolerated in foreign lands and eventually formed congregations all over the world. For example, the English Parliament granted the Church the freedom to practice their religion both in England and certain Anglican Colonies (e.g., NC) where there was no freedom of religion. In both England and America the Moravians were an influence on the early Methodists, namely John and Charles Wesley, protestants of the protestants. If anyone is interested, I have made a timeline of church history, too long to post here. To bring this back to geneaology, my ancestors, Franz Blum and Catharina Steiger, immigrated from the German Palatinate in 1730. They left their church (Lutheran?) to join the Moravians at Bethlehem, PA in 1743. Their son Jacob moved to Bethabara, NC in 1758. I'd be interested in sharing information on PA/NC Blums (Bluhme, Blume, Bloom), Steigers, and Borns. --- Mike Warren <http://www.netunlimited.net/~mwarren> Sine Nomine Farm, Tobaccoville, NC