Dear Rutherford Folks-- I have a typescript of a narrative written by a Rev. Christenberry Lee, dated 1895, from "Forest City Ledger." Is this a newspaper? Does anyone know what the "Forest City Ledger" is? Many thanks. Kit McChesney

Hi, John Whiteside, Sr. born about 1735, died about 1760 married Mary Underwood. His son, John Whiteside, JR, born 18 May 1758 married Eleanor Kelly. John Whiteside, Jr. is one of my ancestors. John JR. & Eleanor had several children. One was John Underwood Whiteside, born 16 Sept. 1797 and they also had a son, Jonathan Whiteside born 1804. Which of these are you asking about? Are you a descendant? Would love to exchange information with you. Thanks, Flora ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathleen Summers" <ksummers55@mchsi.com> To: <NCRUTHER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 12:11 PM Subject: [NCRUTHER-L] Whiteside > Looking for info on John (or Jonathan) Whiteside b ca 1800. How was he connected to the Underwood family? > > Kathy Summers > > > > > > ==== NCRUTHER Mailing List ==== > > Subscribing: Clicking on one of the shortcut links below should work, but if your browser doesn't understand them, try these manual instructions: to join NCRUTHER-L, send mail to NCRUTHER-L-request@rootsweb.com with the single word subscribe in the message subject and body. To join NCRUTHER-D, do the same thing with NCRUTHER-D-request@rootsweb.com. > Unsubscribing: To leave NCRUTHER-L, send mail to NCRUTHER-L-request@rootsweb.com with the single word unsubscribe in the message subject and body. To leave NCRUTHER-D, do the same thing with NCRUTHER-D-request@rootsweb.com. > For questions about this list, contact the list administrator at NCRUTHER-admin@rootsweb.com >

Looking for info on John (or Jonathan) Whiteside b ca 1800. How was he connected to the Underwood family? Kathy Summers

The book that made it all come together for me was Red, White and Black by Gary B. Nash. There was a family legend on my mom's side that my 3rd great granddad's second wife (not my 3rd great grandmom) was Cherokee - including that, in the late 1800s, she rode the train out to Oklahoma to see her family. My 3rd great granddad had lived in Rutherford County, but they had married in South Carolina - always something of a mystery. This book says that NC had laws against White-Indian marriage but that SC did not - and I suspected right then that we knew why they married in SC. I am descended from the Whitesides and Ledbetters, at least one of whom married a John Bradley in the early 1800s. Fran -----Original Message----- From: Kit McChesney [mailto:kitmcchesney@msn.com] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 10:22 PM To: Fran Akridge Cc: NCRUTHER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NCRUTHER-L] Marriage records, missing, or never recorded? Fran-- This is good information. As it turns out, my Bradley ancestors were native american (so says family legend as well as the 1880 census, the first year persons could be identified as such--in prior years they were listed as "mulatto" and "free colored persons") so maybe there is a connection there. What is your source for this info about prohibitions between "indians" and "white"? Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: Fran Akridge Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 5:22 PM To: 'Kit McChesney' Subject: RE: [NCRUTHER-L] Marriage records, missing, or never recorded? I think this applies to earlier (like the early 1800s), but I have read that NC had laws against Indian/White marriages. Some went to SC, which did not have such laws, and some lived as man and wife without the license.

I don't know? They just charge $5.00 and $1.00 for copying. They research at the library. I have looked through Bill Floyd's lists numerous times. When I was back in NC I was going through Polk Counties marriage certificates year by year looking for any of the names I was researching. I found my Great-grandparents marriage certificates. I didn't even know they were in Polk County. I had found him in Rutherford and Spartanburg. It wasn't listed on any lists. So, even if you can't find it on a list you still might find them there. We have to a little work to do for ourselves -- I guess. The address is: The Genealogical Society of Old Tryon County, PO Box 938, Forest City, NC 28043-0938. Barb Hi Barb--   I've had the county clerks search for me (sent letters years ago) for marriages for my ancestors for every county in NC! Nothing turned up. Do you think that the records you mention (I'm most interested in Cleveland and Rutherford) would be more comprehensive than what the county clerk might find, or what Bill Floyd's lists may contain?   Kit  

The Genealogical Society of Old Tryon County has the following marriage records for sale -- Henderson 1851 - 1898, Polk Co. 1847 - 1868, Rutherford 1868 - 1908. They will also research Rutherford County Marriage records for a small fee. Barb Channell    

i found this in my notes n Hardins margart hardin d/o col joseph hardin margaret married twice to Adam Kuykendall in nc adam is son of peter kuykendall and MARY HAMPTON adam died in tx 1836 the kuykendall married several times into hardins BBarkes barkesms@webtv.net bbarkesms@hotmail.com clay co ms

Hi Arlene, This is the line, but I'm not absolutely certain that I have all correct information. In other words, some of it I have not verified for myself. If you can correct anything or add to it please let me know. They surely had bunches of children back then didn't they? Iris Descendants of Andrew HAMPTON 1 [1] Andrew HAMPTON b: Abt. 1713 in NJ? d: 08 Oct 1805 in Mt. Creek, Rutherford Co., NC . +Sarah KUYKENDALL d: 1746 m: Abt. 1730 2 Ezekial HAMPTON, Sr. b: 1735 in Orange Co, VA d: 1811 in Jacks Creek, Yancey Co, NC .... +Jenny Jane GRIGGS m: Aft. 1760 Father: Minus GRIGGS Mother: (Jane?) GRIGGS ... 3 Bridget HAMPTON b: Abt. 1758 in prob Granville Co., NC d: Abt. 1839 in Old Garland Cem., Red Hill, Yancy Co., NC ....... +William Guthridge GARLAND b: Abt. 1753 in VA or Halifax Co., NC d: 1848 in Old Garland Cem., Red Hill, Yancy Co, NC m: 26 Sep 1778 in Salisbury District, Rowan Co., NC Father: "First" ? GARLAND ... 3 Andrew HAMPTON b: 1765 d: 1861 ....... +Sarah Sally Mina GRIGGS b: Abt. 1763 m: Abt. 1785 ... 3 Ezekiel HAMPTON, Jr. b: 1775 d: 1849 in Jack's Creek ....... +Susannah (--?--) b: 1789 d: 1849 ... 3 Deliah HAMPTON b: 1786 in VA d: 1860 ....... +Peter HONEYCUTT Father: Moses HONEYCUTT Mother: Margaret/Lucinda (--?--) ... 3 Dorothy HAMPTON b: Abt. 1790 d: Abt. 1870 ....... +James MASHBURN III m: Abt. 1816 2 Ephraim HAMPTON b: Abt. 1743 in VA d: 1814 in Granville Co., NC .... +Lemender HARRIS m: Abt. 1763 Father: Robert HARRIS Mother: Lemender (--?--) ... 3 Oliver HAMPTON ....... +Elizabeth BRYAN Father: Samuel BRYAN 2 Zachariah HAMPTON b: 1745 in Lunenburg Co., VA d: 08 Sep 1781 in Eutaville, SC .... +Mary KNOWLAND 2 David HAMPTON b: Bef. 1746 in Belvoir, VA .... +----- WILSON **2nd Wife of [1] Andrew HAMPTON: . +Catherine HYDER d: Bef. 1805 in Rutherford Co., NC m: Abt. 1749 2 Jonathan HAMPTON ... 3 Elizabeth HAMPTON ....... +William McKINNEY 2 Susanna HAMPTON 2 Andrew HAMPTON 2 John HAMPTON 2 Elizabeth HAMPTON 2 Nancy HAMPTON 2 Benjamin HAMPTON 2 Alice HAMPTON 2 Rachel HAMPTON 2 Mary HAMPTON 2 Adam HAMPTON 2 Michael HAMPTON 2 Catherine HAMPTON 2 Noah HAMPTON 2 Washington HAMPTON 2 Anthony HAMPTON 2 Samuel HAMPTON

Fran-- This is good information. As it turns out, my Bradley ancestors were native american (so says family legend as well as the 1880 census, the first year persons could be identified as such--in prior years they were listed as "mulatto" and "free colored persons") so maybe there is a connection there. What is your source for this info about prohibitions between "indians" and "white"? Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: Fran Akridge Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 5:22 PM To: 'Kit McChesney' Subject: RE: [NCRUTHER-L] Marriage records, missing, or never recorded? I think this applies to earlier (like the early 1800s), but I have read that NC had laws against Indian/White marriages. Some went to SC, which did not have such laws, and some lived as man and wife without the license.

-----Original Message----- From: Lynn E.Wesson [mailto:Lynn@fastcode.com] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 6:43 PM To: 'Kit McChesney' Subject: RE: [NCRUTHER-L] Marriage records, missing, or never recorded? Kit, The register is not online to my knowledge. It is published in the book of Marriages from a similar period in Cleveland Co. I just looked at a few pages I copied and the published ones are from 1900-1910, but he performed marriages in the Grover area across the state line in SC (near Blacksburg, SC) for some years. No marriage license was required in SC till 1911 per this book. The reason I found out was just looking at the book and seeing the names of some of my own relatives who were married by him! I would suggest , though, that you check the marriage registers for Cleveland, Gaston, and surrounding counties for the appropriate years. These books are in the local libraries of the counties in question and also in the State Genealogy library in Raleigh. Lynn -----Original Message----- From: Kit McChesney [mailto:kitmcchesney@msn.com] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 6:32 PM To: Lynn@fastcode.com; NCRUTHER-L (E-mail) Subject: Re: [NCRUTHER-L] Marriage records, missing, or never recorded? Lynn-- This is good information, especially since my Bradley relatives moved into SC over the border around 1890 or so, because 2 of my grandfather's four other siblings were born in the Gaffney area, where they are shown in Morgan Township in 1900. I have not been able to find Benjamin in the 1880 census--well, not exactly. There is a Benjamin Bradley in the 1880 census, next door (my theory is that Benjamin and Esther were cousins, descendants of the Thomas and Henry Bradley families--they were brothers, hammermen in the High Shoals Iron Works), but he is recorded as being 7 years old. Given that my great-grandmother-to-be was 23 at the time, it seemed unlikely that he was the right person. And if this is an error, then he isn't shown at all in earlier census records, so I suppose that this 7 year old Benjamin was someone else--perhaps he was named after my great-grandfather, but to date, I haven't found a thing to verify his existence. I assume the Cleveland register is online at Floyd's site? Thanks again. Looking forward to more thoughts. How did you find out about this Rev. Mullinax? Is there any historical material about him? Kit McChesney ----- Original Message ----- From: Lynn E.Wesson Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 4:26 PM To: 'Kit McChesney'; NCRUTHER-L (E-mail) Subject: RE: [NCRUTHER-L] Marriage records, missing, or never recorded? Kit, Many people in that part of the state went to SC to marry, where a license was not required till sometime about 1910 or after. They just went over the state line and married, usually by a minister. There was one minister, a Mr. Mullinax, who kept books of his marriages, and some volumes of those books survives and are published with the Cleveland Co. marriage register. That may be what happened to your folks. Have you found Benjamin Bradley in 1880 census? Lynn Wesson Chapel Hill, NC -----Original Message----- From: Kit McChesney [mailto:kitmcchesney@msn.com] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 6:04 PM To: NCRUTHER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [NCRUTHER-L] Marriage records, missing, or never recorded? Hello Rutherford-ers-- I have sent inquiries to every single county in North Carolina, checked Bill Floyd's list of brides and grooms, and looked high and low for any evidence at all that my great-grandmother, Esther Bradley (her maiden name) actually married my great-grandfather, Benjamin Bradley, around 1881. Esther is single in 1880. Benjamin doesn't show up anywhere in any census at the appropriate time, and by 1900, Esther is a widow, with five children. We have no census for 1890, so I can't find him there. I have no burial for him (Esther is buried in the Clifton Cemetery in Clifton, SC, d. 1910) and for all the world, he just seems never to have existed. As far as I've been able to tell, neither Esther nor Benjamin had a will (they probably would have had nothing to leave anyone anyway, since Esther and her children were poor farmers, and later worked in cotton mills. They rented their property in 1900 and 1910, when Esther died. Has anyone had trouble finding marriage records for their Rutherford/Cleveland County ancestors, folks who might have married around 1880, a period of time when one would expect some record of a marriage to be recorded? Even though one would presume that everyone who claimed to be married actually did marry, what is the reality? Did some folks just pretend to be married? (I won't use the euphemism for this practice). Did some folks marry but not report their marriages? Was common-law marriage "common" at that time? This is one problem that has befuddled me for years. Does anyone have a brilliant thought that might jog my process and get me moving in a more fruitful direction? (I'm not expecting miracles, but two or more heads can often be better than one!) Thanks in advance. Any suggestions, help, or even hollering, appreciated! Kit McChesney ==== NCRUTHER Mailing List ==== Subscribing: Clicking on one of the shortcut links below should work, but if your browser doesn't understand them, try these manual instructions: to join NCRUTHER-L, send mail to NCRUTHER-L-request@rootsweb.com with the single word subscribe in the message subject and body. To join NCRUTHER-D, do the same thing with NCRUTHER-D-request@rootsweb.com. Unsubscribing: To leave NCRUTHER-L, send mail to NCRUTHER-L-request@rootsweb.com with the single word unsubscribe in the message subject and body. To leave NCRUTHER-D, do the same thing with NCRUTHER-D-request@rootsweb.com. For questions about this list, contact the list administrator at NCRUTHER-admin@rootsweb.com

Hi Iris, Which HAMPTON line are you researching? Thanks, Arlene

Ahhhhh, that phrase brings back memories.... My Grandmother, Deliah Harrell Yelton used to say "Two heads are better than one, even if one is a cabbage head..." Thanks for the memory, Iris Searching for ~Yelton, Harrell, Garland, Hampton, Wiseman, Baker, Hutchins, etc.

As I was doing some work on the Rutherford Co., NC Marriages from 1865+ foward I ran into some marriages in which the documents said they had been living together for some time and was getting married. One pair in particular had been living together for about twenty-five years and had several children. Most of these are in my Photos of Marriage Licenses for Rutherford County, NC. I don't remember the names so I can't go directly to them but there were several. Knowing this, I would assume there were probably plenty of them that lived together most of their life and was never married. I would also assume that the farther back in time the more prevalent it was. Maybe this helps a little. Bill

Kit, Many people in that part of the state went to SC to marry, where a license was not required till sometime about 1910 or after. They just went over the state line and married, usually by a minister. There was one minister, a Mr. Mullinax, who kept books of his marriages, and some volumes of those books survives and are published with the Cleveland Co. marriage register. That may be what happened to your folks. Have you found Benjamin Bradley in 1880 census? Lynn Wesson Chapel Hill, NC -----Original Message----- From: Kit McChesney [mailto:kitmcchesney@msn.com] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 6:04 PM To: NCRUTHER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [NCRUTHER-L] Marriage records, missing, or never recorded? Hello Rutherford-ers-- I have sent inquiries to every single county in North Carolina, checked Bill Floyd's list of brides and grooms, and looked high and low for any evidence at all that my great-grandmother, Esther Bradley (her maiden name) actually married my great-grandfather, Benjamin Bradley, around 1881. Esther is single in 1880. Benjamin doesn't show up anywhere in any census at the appropriate time, and by 1900, Esther is a widow, with five children. We have no census for 1890, so I can't find him there. I have no burial for him (Esther is buried in the Clifton Cemetery in Clifton, SC, d. 1910) and for all the world, he just seems never to have existed. As far as I've been able to tell, neither Esther nor Benjamin had a will (they probably would have had nothing to leave anyone anyway, since Esther and her children were poor farmers, and later worked in cotton mills. They rented their property in 1900 and 1910, when Esther died. Has anyone had trouble finding marriage records for their Rutherford/Cleveland County ancestors, folks who might have married around 1880, a period of time when one would expect some record of a marriage to be recorded? Even though one would presume that everyone who claimed to be married actually did marry, what is the reality? Did some folks just pretend to be married? (I won't use the euphemism for this practice). Did some folks marry but not report their marriages? Was common-law marriage "common" at that time? This is one problem that has befuddled me for years. Does anyone have a brilliant thought that might jog my process and get me moving in a more fruitful direction? (I'm not expecting miracles, but two or more heads can often be better than one!) Thanks in advance. Any suggestions, help, or even hollering, appreciated! Kit McChesney ==== NCRUTHER Mailing List ==== Subscribing: Clicking on one of the shortcut links below should work, but if your browser doesn't understand them, try these manual instructions: to join NCRUTHER-L, send mail to NCRUTHER-L-request@rootsweb.com with the single word subscribe in the message subject and body. To join NCRUTHER-D, do the same thing with NCRUTHER-D-request@rootsweb.com. Unsubscribing: To leave NCRUTHER-L, send mail to NCRUTHER-L-request@rootsweb.com with the single word unsubscribe in the message subject and body. To leave NCRUTHER-D, do the same thing with NCRUTHER-D-request@rootsweb.com. For questions about this list, contact the list administrator at NCRUTHER-admin@rootsweb.com

Hello all, I'd like to know too, the answers to the questions Kit has asked. And if anyone has those answers for other counties in NC, specifically Western NC. Thanks, Arlene > Did some folks just pretend to be married? (I won't use the euphemism for > this practice). Did some folks marry but not report their marriages? Was > common-law marriage "common" at that time? This is one problem that has > befuddled me for years. Does anyone have a brilliant thought that might jog > my process and get me moving in a more fruitful direction? (I'm not > expecting miracles, but two or more heads can often be better than one!) > >

I understand a relative of mine was one of those providing the marriage service in SC, Cleveland County in the mid 1860's. His name is Hugh Kerr Roberts and I believe he may have been a Justice of the Peace or some such. Any documentation on services he provided is welcome. James Stone jandsstone@earthlink.net "Lynn E.Wesson" wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lynn E.Wesson [mailto:Lynn@fastcode.com] > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 6:43 PM > To: 'Kit McChesney' > Subject: RE: [NCRUTHER-L] Marriage records, missing, or never recorded? > > Kit, > The register is not online to my knowledge. It is published in the book of > Marriages from a similar period in Cleveland Co. I just looked at a few > pages I copied and the published ones are from 1900-1910, but he performed > marriages in the Grover area across the state line in SC (near Blacksburg, > SC) for some years. No marriage license was required in SC till 1911 per > this book. > The reason I found out was just looking at the book and seeing the names of > some of my own relatives who were married by him! > I would suggest , though, that you check the marriage registers for > Cleveland, Gaston, and surrounding counties for the appropriate years. > These books are in the local libraries of the counties in question and also > in the State Genealogy library in Raleigh. > Lynn > -----Original Message----- > From: Kit McChesney [mailto:kitmcchesney@msn.com] > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 6:32 PM > To: Lynn@fastcode.com; NCRUTHER-L (E-mail) > Subject: Re: [NCRUTHER-L] Marriage records, missing, or never recorded? > > Lynn-- > > This is good information, especially since my Bradley relatives moved into > SC over the border around 1890 or so, because 2 of my grandfather's four > other siblings were born in the Gaffney area, where they are shown in Morgan > Township in 1900. > > I have not been able to find Benjamin in the 1880 census--well, not > exactly. There is a Benjamin Bradley in the 1880 census, next door (my > theory is that Benjamin and Esther were cousins, descendants of the Thomas > and Henry Bradley families--they were brothers, hammermen in the High Shoals > Iron Works), but he is recorded as being 7 years old. Given that my > great-grandmother-to-be was 23 at the time, it seemed unlikely that he was > the right person. And if this is an error, then he isn't shown at all in > earlier census records, so I suppose that this 7 year old Benjamin was > someone else--perhaps he was named after my great-grandfather, but to date, > I haven't found a thing to verify his existence. > > I assume the Cleveland register is online at Floyd's site? > > Thanks again. Looking forward to more thoughts. How did you find out about > this Rev. Mullinax? Is there any historical material about him? > > Kit McChesney > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lynn E.Wesson > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 4:26 PM > To: 'Kit McChesney'; NCRUTHER-L (E-mail) > Subject: RE: [NCRUTHER-L] Marriage records, missing, or never recorded? > > Kit, > Many people in that part of the state went to SC to marry, where a > license > was not required till sometime about 1910 or after. They just went over > the > state line and married, usually by a minister. > There was one minister, a Mr. Mullinax, who kept books of his marriages, > and > some volumes of those books survives and are published with the > Cleveland > Co. marriage register. > That may be what happened to your folks. > Have you found Benjamin Bradley in 1880 census? > Lynn Wesson > Chapel Hill, NC > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kit McChesney [mailto:kitmcchesney@msn.com] > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 6:04 PM > To: NCRUTHER-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [NCRUTHER-L] Marriage records, missing, or never recorded? > > Hello Rutherford-ers-- > > I have sent inquiries to every single county in North Carolina, checked > Bill > Floyd's list of brides and grooms, and looked high and low for any > evidence > at all that my great-grandmother, Esther Bradley (her maiden name) > actually > married my great-grandfather, Benjamin Bradley, around 1881. Esther is > single in 1880. Benjamin doesn't show up anywhere in any census at the > appropriate time, and by 1900, Esther is a widow, with five children. We > have no census for 1890, so I can't find him there. I have no burial for > him > (Esther is buried in the Clifton Cemetery in Clifton, SC, d. 1910) and > for > all the world, he just seems never to have existed. As far as I've been > able > to tell, neither Esther nor Benjamin had a will (they probably would > have > had nothing to leave anyone anyway, since Esther and her children were > poor > farmers, and later worked in cotton mills. They rented their property in > 1900 and 1910, when Esther died. > > Has anyone had trouble finding marriage records for their > Rutherford/Cleveland County ancestors, folks who might have married > around > 1880, a period of time when one would expect some record of a marriage > to be > recorded? Even though one would presume that everyone who claimed to be > married actually did marry, what is the reality? Did some folks just > pretend > to be married? (I won't use the euphemism for this practice). Did some > folks > marry but not report their marriages? Was common-law marriage "common" > at > that time? This is one problem that has befuddled me for years. Does > anyone > have a brilliant thought that might jog my process and get me moving in > a > more fruitful direction? (I'm not expecting miracles, but two or more > heads > can often be better than one!) > > Thanks in advance. Any suggestions, help, or even hollering, > appreciated! > > Kit McChesney > > ==== NCRUTHER Mailing List ==== > > Subscribing: Clicking on one of the shortcut links below should > work, > but if your browser doesn't understand them, try these manual > instructions: > to join NCRUTHER-L, send mail to NCRUTHER-L-request@rootsweb.com with > the > single word subscribe in the message subject and body. To join > NCRUTHER-D, > do the same thing with NCRUTHER-D-request@rootsweb.com. > Unsubscribing: To leave NCRUTHER-L, send mail to > NCRUTHER-L-request@rootsweb.com with the single word unsubscribe in the > message subject and body. To leave NCRUTHER-D, do the same thing with > NCRUTHER-D-request@rootsweb.com. > For questions about this list, contact the list administrator at > NCRUTHER-admin@rootsweb.com > > ==== NCRUTHER Mailing List ==== > > Subscribing: Clicking on one of the shortcut links below should work, but if your browser doesn't understand them, try these manual instructions: to join NCRUTHER-L, send mail to NCRUTHER-L-request@rootsweb.com with the single word subscribe in the message subject and body. To join NCRUTHER-D, do the same thing with NCRUTHER-D-request@rootsweb.com. > Unsubscribing: To leave NCRUTHER-L, send mail to NCRUTHER-L-request@rootsweb.com with the single word unsubscribe in the message subject and body. To leave NCRUTHER-D, do the same thing with NCRUTHER-D-request@rootsweb.com. > For questions about this list, contact the list administrator at NCRUTHER-admin@rootsweb.com

Tamara-- Thanks! But that would mean that Benjamin was 10 years old when my great grandmother married him! My great-uncle was born in 1882, so he'd have been a ten year old father! :) Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: Tamara Stevens Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 5:26 PM To: kitmcchesney@msn.com; NCRUTHER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NCRUTHER-L] Marriage records, missing, or never recorded? Kit, Don't count this seven year old out. My great aunt Earlie Splawn (from the same genereal area/circumstances) that married a man 20 years her junior. In fact, she had a son born one year after him. And he was a cousin. So dig a little deeper into this Benjamin that you've found - I'll bet it's him! Here's the entries from Mr. Floyd's wonderful site showing my aunt and her husband and son - Splawn, Earlie S. March 10, 1880 December 17, 1961 Splawn, G. Pender January 6, 1900 June 1, 1969 Briscoe, Elizabeth Lollar June 21, 1905 January 29, 1989 Briscoe, George Gordon March 11, 1901 August 8, 1963 Brisco, Annie P. No Dates Brisco, W. L. April 7, 1861 February 28, 1917 Another interesting story (at least it was to me) is that Annie P. (Splawn) Brisco was the wife of W.L. Brisco, listed above. William (W.L.) was George Briscoe's father. On the 1910 census, George is living with William and his wife of 25 years, listed as his son, aged 9 and Annie has had no pregnancies and no children. George Brisco was always known to my mother as Aunt Earlie's son. So I guess they did whatever they wanted, not worrying about the morality of it because they sure didn't try to hide it! Good luck! Tamara >>I have not been able to find Benjamin in the 1880 census--well, not exactly. There is a Benjamin Bradley in the 1880 census, next door (my theory is that Benjamin and Esther were cousins, descendants of the Thomas and Henry Bradley families--they were brothers, hammermen in the High Shoals Iron Works), but he is recorded as being 7 years old. Given that my great-grandmother-to-be was 23 at the time, it seemed unlikely that he was the right person. ____________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here

Lynn-- This is good information, especially since my Bradley relatives moved into SC over the border around 1890 or so, because 2 of my grandfather's four other siblings were born in the Gaffney area, where they are shown in Morgan Township in 1900. I have not been able to find Benjamin in the 1880 census--well, not exactly. There is a Benjamin Bradley in the 1880 census, next door (my theory is that Benjamin and Esther were cousins, descendants of the Thomas and Henry Bradley families--they were brothers, hammermen in the High Shoals Iron Works), but he is recorded as being 7 years old. Given that my great-grandmother-to-be was 23 at the time, it seemed unlikely that he was the right person. And if this is an error, then he isn't shown at all in earlier census records, so I suppose that this 7 year old Benjamin was someone else--perhaps he was named after my great-grandfather, but to date, I haven't found a thing to verify his existence. I assume the Cleveland register is online at Floyd's site? Thanks again. Looking forward to more thoughts. How did you find out about this Rev. Mullinax? Is there any historical material about him? Kit McChesney ----- Original Message ----- From: Lynn E.Wesson Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 4:26 PM To: 'Kit McChesney'; NCRUTHER-L (E-mail) Subject: RE: [NCRUTHER-L] Marriage records, missing, or never recorded? Kit, Many people in that part of the state went to SC to marry, where a license was not required till sometime about 1910 or after. They just went over the state line and married, usually by a minister. There was one minister, a Mr. Mullinax, who kept books of his marriages, and some volumes of those books survives and are published with the Cleveland Co. marriage register. That may be what happened to your folks. Have you found Benjamin Bradley in 1880 census? Lynn Wesson Chapel Hill, NC -----Original Message----- From: Kit McChesney [mailto:kitmcchesney@msn.com] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 6:04 PM To: NCRUTHER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [NCRUTHER-L] Marriage records, missing, or never recorded? Hello Rutherford-ers-- I have sent inquiries to every single county in North Carolina, checked Bill Floyd's list of brides and grooms, and looked high and low for any evidence at all that my great-grandmother, Esther Bradley (her maiden name) actually married my great-grandfather, Benjamin Bradley, around 1881. Esther is single in 1880. Benjamin doesn't show up anywhere in any census at the appropriate time, and by 1900, Esther is a widow, with five children. We have no census for 1890, so I can't find him there. I have no burial for him (Esther is buried in the Clifton Cemetery in Clifton, SC, d. 1910) and for all the world, he just seems never to have existed. As far as I've been able to tell, neither Esther nor Benjamin had a will (they probably would have had nothing to leave anyone anyway, since Esther and her children were poor farmers, and later worked in cotton mills. They rented their property in 1900 and 1910, when Esther died. Has anyone had trouble finding marriage records for their Rutherford/Cleveland County ancestors, folks who might have married around 1880, a period of time when one would expect some record of a marriage to be recorded? Even though one would presume that everyone who claimed to be married actually did marry, what is the reality? Did some folks just pretend to be married? (I won't use the euphemism for this practice). Did some folks marry but not report their marriages? Was common-law marriage "common" at that time? This is one problem that has befuddled me for years. Does anyone have a brilliant thought that might jog my process and get me moving in a more fruitful direction? (I'm not expecting miracles, but two or more heads can often be better than one!) Thanks in advance. Any suggestions, help, or even hollering, appreciated! Kit McChesney ==== NCRUTHER Mailing List ==== Subscribing: Clicking on one of the shortcut links below should work, but if your browser doesn't understand them, try these manual instructions: to join NCRUTHER-L, send mail to NCRUTHER-L-request@rootsweb.com with the single word subscribe in the message subject and body. To join NCRUTHER-D, do the same thing with NCRUTHER-D-request@rootsweb.com. Unsubscribing: To leave NCRUTHER-L, send mail to NCRUTHER-L-request@rootsweb.com with the single word unsubscribe in the message subject and body. To leave NCRUTHER-D, do the same thing with NCRUTHER-D-request@rootsweb.com. For questions about this list, contact the list administrator at NCRUTHER-admin@rootsweb.com

Hello Rutherford-ers-- I have sent inquiries to every single county in North Carolina, checked Bill Floyd's list of brides and grooms, and looked high and low for any evidence at all that my great-grandmother, Esther Bradley (her maiden name) actually married my great-grandfather, Benjamin Bradley, around 1881. Esther is single in 1880. Benjamin doesn't show up anywhere in any census at the appropriate time, and by 1900, Esther is a widow, with five children. We have no census for 1890, so I can't find him there. I have no burial for him (Esther is buried in the Clifton Cemetery in Clifton, SC, d. 1910) and for all the world, he just seems never to have existed. As far as I've been able to tell, neither Esther nor Benjamin had a will (they probably would have had nothing to leave anyone anyway, since Esther and her children were poor farmers, and later worked in cotton mills. They rented their property in 1900 and 1910, when Esther died. Has anyone had trouble finding marriage records for their Rutherford/Cleveland County ancestors, folks who might have married around 1880, a period of time when one would expect some record of a marriage to be recorded? Even though one would presume that everyone who claimed to be married actually did marry, what is the reality? Did some folks just pretend to be married? (I won't use the euphemism for this practice). Did some folks marry but not report their marriages? Was common-law marriage "common" at that time? This is one problem that has befuddled me for years. Does anyone have a brilliant thought that might jog my process and get me moving in a more fruitful direction? (I'm not expecting miracles, but two or more heads can often be better than one!) Thanks in advance. Any suggestions, help, or even hollering, appreciated! Kit McChesney

> This cemetery is located between Duncan’s Creek Church and Hollis, NC just > off of State Road 1749. It is on the second road to the left after passing > Duncan’s Creek Church going toward Hollis. This is on private property but > permission is very easy and simple, ask. There are lots of unknown graves > in this cemetery and probably some unmarked ones as well. Some of the > inscriptions are not very legible. Inventory done February 4, 1997 SURNAMES FOR THIS LOCATION > CAMPBELL, CARSON, GETTYS, HOLLIFIELD, MCFARLAND, OLIVER, PRICE 5 Unknowns Gettys, John July15. 1886 Gettys, Alpha A. December 21, 1877 Unknown Gettys, Infant Unknown Unknown Campbell, Sarah March 14, 1831 June 24, 1919 Campbell, J.P. May3, 1828 May 19, 1898 3 Unknowns Price, B. R. February 25, 1865 July 18, 1929 Unknown Unknown Hollifield, Sally D. June 14, 1817 3 Unknowns Price, Wade CSA 4 Unknowns Price, Ben 6 Unknowns Price, Amanda June 15, 184? Price, John N. December 13, 1848 4 Unknowns Gettys, Mary N. November 5, 1849 August 25, 1925 Price, Elizabeth May 6, 1819 December 11, 1908 Price, Calvin August 11, 1844 December 14, 1901 Price, Ellen February 11, 1811 November 13, 1891 Price, Annis November 5, 1822 April 18, 1894 Price, Mary August 6, 1881 Price, James December 21, 1853 Unknown Price, Demarcus CSA Unreadable 20 Unknowns Price, Sarah July 1, 1828 15 Unknowns Gettys, Eliza E. September 23, 1875 Gettys, Martha B. January 24, 1840 Gettys, John C. June 8, 1861 Gettys, William May 10, 1827 4 Unknowns Price, William G. December 2, 1843 Gettys, Elmima S. June 12, 1842 5 Unknowns Chas. Craton Gettys, W. Thomas 20 yrs Gettys, Craton 27 yrs Gettys, Chas. A. 20 yrs Gettys, Effie H. 9 mos Gettys, Jos L. 23 yrs Thos. Jos Effie 9 Unknowns Price, William F. June 11, 1816 Price, Gilluin A. December 15, 1850 19 Unknowns Gettys, Amos C. May 25, 1835 Getys, William September 6, 1813 Gettys, Nancy February 8, 1833 Gettys, John C. December 12, 1848 6 Unknowns Oliver, Mary A. August 6, 1857 35 Unknowns Carson, Mary October 12, 1851 Carson, Can’t read Carson, William January 16, 1815 Unknown McFarland, Elizabeth W. May 4, 1851 McFarland, Samuel August 14, 1812 February 14, 1859 This cemetery is listed on W.D. Floyd's site. E-mail him and ask about the cemetery's you listed. Barb wdfloyd@rfci.net