Hi, Bill, I agree. This infuriates me too! Isn't it some kind of serious offense to harm, destroy, steal such kinds of records? Perhaps courthouses need to have some kind of better supervision of older documents. Maybe they could even install a series of cameras, but I don't know where they would get the money. Most of the courthouses I've been in have no supervision of the old records. Furthermore, most the employeees I've encountered across this state have little knowledge and no concern for these precious documents. This is most unfortunate, and those of us who see the importance of preserving and protecting data often become frustrated and overwhelmed by people whose jobs put them in a position to care, yet they don't. OK, that's my 2 cents, and it's probably worth nothing. Sigh. Cecelia ----- Original Message ----- From: "W D Floyd" <wdfloyd@rfci.net> To: <NCRUTHER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:00 AM Subject: [NCRUTHER-L] NC Courthouse Access > Good Morning Folks, > Do we sometimes wonder why our access to records are being taken away? Well, let me explain. The Rutherford County, NC has two rooms for the Register of Deeds Office. One has the newer records in it with all the working personnel. In the other room is all the older records with open access with no supervision. I have grumbled before about people like you and me, researchers, unshelving books and never putting them up. Today I was in there making photos of the pages in a Deed Book when I found that two pages in the book had been ripped out. In the next room is a copy machine that can be used to make copies for a dime a piece. These Deed Books are our oldest and the NC State Archives made these hand written copies of the old deeds that were placed in the NC Archives. The pages were laminated so they would last almos forever. So now rather than make a copy we rip out the pages, just great! This is the deed that was ripped out "Johnston, James / Johnston, John / Deed/E-I/34! > 1/1789" > I know that we have all seen people doing things in the Register of Deeds Offices across the state that were not "just right" and didn't say anything to them. We need to start saying something and kind of policing ourselves or we are going to eventually lose our free access to these public records. OK, I have that "off my chest" now so Thank You, Bill > > > ==== NCRUTHER Mailing List ==== > Subscribing: Clicking on one of the shortcut links below should work, but if your browser doesn't understand them, try these manual instructions: to join NCRUTHER-L, send mail to NCRUTHER-L-request@rootsweb.com with the single word subscribe in the message subject and body. To join NCRUTHER-D, do the same thing with NCRUTHER-D-request@rootsweb.com. > Unsubscribing: To leave NCRUTHER-L, send mail to NCRUTHER-L-request@rootsweb.com with the single word unsubscribe in the message subject and body. To leave NCRUTHER-D, do the same thing with NCRUTHER-D-request@rootsweb.com. > For questions about this list, contact the list administrator at NCRUTHER-admin@rootsweb.com > To search the archives for the mail list > visit http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/NCRUTHER/ > To search "any" list archives > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ >

Thank you for posting this, Bill. And I would like to add that if by some chance anyone reading this board knows anything about this act of vandalism, it would be the honorable thing to do to arrange for the return of the pages that were removed. Lynn Wesson Hillsborough, NC -----Original Message----- From: "W. D. Floyd" <wdfloyd@rfci.net> Sent: May 18, 2005 11:00 AM To: NCRUTHER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [NCRUTHER-L] NC Courthouse Access Good Morning Folks, Do we sometimes wonder why our access to records are being taken away? Well, let me explain. The Rutherford County, NC has two rooms for the Register of Deeds Office. One has the newer records in it with all the working personnel. In the other room is all the older records with open access with no supervision. I have grumbled before about people like you and me, researchers, unshelving books and never putting them up. Today I was in there making photos of the pages in a Deed Book when I found that two pages in the book had been ripped out. In the next room is a copy machine that can be used to make copies for a dime a piece. These Deed Books are our oldest and the NC State Archives made these hand written copies of the old deeds that were placed in the NC Archives. The pages were laminated so they would last almos forever. So now rather than make a copy we rip out the pages, just great! This is the deed that was ripped out "Johnston, James / Johnston, John / Deed/E-I/34! 1/1789" I know that we have all seen people doing things in the Register of Deeds Offices across the state that were not "just right" and didn't say anything to them. We need to start saying something and kind of policing ourselves or we are going to eventually lose our free access to these public records. OK, I have that "off my chest" now so Thank You, Bill ==== NCRUTHER Mailing List ==== Subscribing: Clicking on one of the shortcut links below should work, but if your browser doesn't understand them, try these manual instructions: to join NCRUTHER-L, send mail to NCRUTHER-L-request@rootsweb.com with the single word subscribe in the message subject and body. To join NCRUTHER-D, do the same thing with NCRUTHER-D-request@rootsweb.com. Unsubscribing: To leave NCRUTHER-L, send mail to NCRUTHER-L-request@rootsweb.com with the single word unsubscribe in the message subject and body. To leave NCRUTHER-D, do the same thing with NCRUTHER-D-request@rootsweb.com. For questions about this list, contact the list administrator at NCRUTHER-admin@rootsweb.com To search the archives for the mail list visit http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/NCRUTHER/ To search "any" list archives http://archiver.rootsweb.com/

Well, I am shocked to put it mildly! These records must be preserved, and someone's thoughtless actions are taking away our history! Jonnie in SC In a message dated 5/18/2005 11:01:52 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, wdfloyd@rfci.net writes: I know that we have all seen people doing things in the Register of Deeds Offices across the state that were not "just right" and didn't say anything to them. We need to start saying something and kind of policing ourselves or we are going to eventually lose our free access to these public records. OK, I have that "off my chest" now so Thank You, Bill

Good Morning Folks, Do we sometimes wonder why our access to records are being taken away? Well, let me explain. The Rutherford County, NC has two rooms for the Register of Deeds Office. One has the newer records in it with all the working personnel. In the other room is all the older records with open access with no supervision. I have grumbled before about people like you and me, researchers, unshelving books and never putting them up. Today I was in there making photos of the pages in a Deed Book when I found that two pages in the book had been ripped out. In the next room is a copy machine that can be used to make copies for a dime a piece. These Deed Books are our oldest and the NC State Archives made these hand written copies of the old deeds that were placed in the NC Archives. The pages were laminated so they would last almos forever. So now rather than make a copy we rip out the pages, just great! This is the deed that was ripped out "Johnston, James / Johnston, John / Deed/E-I/34! 1/1789" I know that we have all seen people doing things in the Register of Deeds Offices across the state that were not "just right" and didn't say anything to them. We need to start saying something and kind of policing ourselves or we are going to eventually lose our free access to these public records. OK, I have that "off my chest" now so Thank You, Bill

In a message dated 5/17/2005 6:07:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, NCRUTHER-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: From: Margaret Smith <mlsmith67@earthlink.net> To: NCRUTHER-L@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <4282C873.2020309@earthlink.net> Subject: Melody Booker website? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Melody, you didn't give a URL for your website to which you will be posting the Rutherford Co. deed information. I tried to get to the one whose URL you posted back in October (http://hometown.aol.com/mellybkr) but got an error message saying it could not be found. Margaret Lindsey Smith ______________________________ I am not sure if this was address. _In Search of Ancestors_ (http://www.insearchofancestors.com/) www.insearchofancestors.com

Flora, If you are online, could you help me with the documentation on the Kelly line? I have reviewed some of our past emails I noted that you had quite a bit on the Kellys as well as the Whitesides. Just need to know the sources if you have them. Thanks, Kathy

I'm looking for someone who is researching the Henry Kelly line. He was living in Rutherford Co 1790 with 5 males under 16 and 3 females. My information is that he married Mary Whiteside b Abt. 1756, daughter of John Whiteside Sr. and Molly Underwood but I do not have documentation. I also have that their daughter Mary Ashe Kelly married Samuel King Jr. I do have the marriage bond but no documentation that she was the daughter of Henry Kelly. Interested in finding the children of Henry Kelly. Any assistance will be appreciated. Kathy Summers

In a message dated 4/28/2005 4:09:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wdfloyd@rfci.net writes: I need a little feedback on the following. I am considering letting The Genealogical Society of Old Tryon County in Forest City, NC market my website complete with all back files, photos and databases. In other words evrything that has been available on my webpage in the various ways. This Bill, I think it's a very good idea. I know the Genealogical societies could use the support. Melanie

Melody, you didn't give a URL for your website to which you will be posting the Rutherford Co. deed information. I tried to get to the one whose URL you posted back in October (http://hometown.aol.com/mellybkr) but got an error message saying it could not be found. Margaret Lindsey Smith

Melody, Create a PDF file and upload it to your website. Dean Crocker At 06:00 AM 5/11/2005, you wrote: >NCRUTHER-D Digest Volume 05 : Issue 60 > >Today's Topics: > #1 Deed Books and Index [MellyBkr@aol.com] > >Administrivia: >To unsubscribe from NCRUTHER-D, send a message to > > NCRUTHER-D-request@rootsweb.com > >that contains in the body of the message the command > > unsubscribe > >and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software >requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. > >______________________________X-Message: #1 >Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 17:02:18 EDT >From: MellyBkr@aol.com >To: NCRUTHER-L@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: <199.3ee4425b.2fb27b5a@aol.com> >Subject: Deed Books and Index >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >Hello Everyone, >I was wondering if anyone had gone through the deed index and deed books to >see if they match? The reason I ask is that I have found some discrepancies >between the two. For example, there was a William Wilkeson listed as being >granted land, but when I looked it was Benjamin Wilkinson, my 5th great >grandfather. Also, Benjamin Wilkinson was listed as Benjamin White in >the index. >I've also found that deeds were not found on pages that they were listed on >in the index. Also, in the court records there are deeds listed, but are not >in the index and I have no way of finding them. As a result I have begun to >make my own index. I am afraid if I don't do so, I might miss some crucial >information. I started at the beginning of the microfilm labled "Vol: A-D, >E-I". I began on page 1 and went thru page 50. On page 51, at the top was >written "Deed Book A" and the deed numbering started again with deed >1. Would >anyone know what the deed book the deeds on pages 1-50 were? > > >Hmmm...I tried to send the first 25 deeds I've written down but the columns >won't cut and paste correctly to my e-mail. I tried to do it on my personal >website also. Does anyone have any idea how I might remedy this so I can >post this information? >Thanks, >Melody Booker Mail from this address is certified to be virus free by Norton AV 2003 updated 4/15/2005.

Hello Everyone, I was wondering if anyone had gone through the deed index and deed books to see if they match? The reason I ask is that I have found some discrepancies between the two. For example, there was a William Wilkeson listed as being granted land, but when I looked it was Benjamin Wilkinson, my 5th great grandfather. Also, Benjamin Wilkinson was listed as Benjamin White in the index. I've also found that deeds were not found on pages that they were listed on in the index. Also, in the court records there are deeds listed, but are not in the index and I have no way of finding them. As a result I have begun to make my own index. I am afraid if I don't do so, I might miss some crucial information. I started at the beginning of the microfilm labled "Vol: A-D, E-I". I began on page 1 and went thru page 50. On page 51, at the top was written "Deed Book A" and the deed numbering started again with deed 1. Would anyone know what the deed book the deeds on pages 1-50 were? Hmmm...I tried to send the first 25 deeds I've written down but the columns won't cut and paste correctly to my e-mail. I tried to do it on my personal website also. Does anyone have any idea how I might remedy this so I can post this information? Thanks, Melody Booker

This is to apologize for a e-mail sent last Wednesday to this and other lists sent by my niece but written by me and I never intended it to be sent. Once written, my anger was released and I thought better. However, my niece can go from Lady to the word use for female dog in 4.2 seconds. I did not realize she had sent the message until the next morning. That being say, some good things came form the e-mail. 1. After a discussion with AOL, I now get it for $7.00 less. 2. Many e mails were sent in agreement. 3. The lady who ripped me off has now listed my research as hers on her web site, with the a Mulatto slave as the great grandfather of her husband. She said she did the research herself. 4. She sent to me updated information about her family with birthdays and maiden names of living people. Smart enough to ripped me off, dumb enough to send that information to a total stranger. On the downside after doing genealogical research for thirty-three years and having two articles published in The American Genealogist, I will now quit genealogy. I will leave it to the new breed of Internet Genealogists that have no sense of right or wrong. So no need to unsubscribe me for an apology, I will do that soon myself. Thank You Tonto Bernstein

Bill, On your website, what does it mean when you say "all the back-up .jpg photos and instructions"? You said that would be on one of the CDs, but I don't know what it is. Is it part of the deed index for Rutherford Co? Cecelia

Hi, all, With all of this discussion on Bill's site, I have a comment to make about another website. I am sure that most of you who have been doing this for awhile are aware that all of the censuses 1790-1930 are indexed on Ancestry. However, they also have many mistakes in transcribing names, therefore you will not always find your ancestor listed as they are really spelled. Why? Well, I am sure that all of you have looked at original censuses and soundex cards on microfilm---they were written by humans! All of us have different penmanship, and some of the handwriting on censuses is hard to read either due to old-style writing or poor penmanship or fading ink. Not to mention that the original census takers may have misspelled the names. So of course it will be difficult to transcribe these at times. You may need to search on Ancestry using various spellings and sometimes just look at the census page by page or use other methods of searching. I have found my Wesson ancestor! s spelled so many ways you wouldn't believe it---some not even starting with W! My points in posting this are 1]to encourage those of you who are using transcribed versions of any kind not to count on the transcribed version or index alone, but to use it as a guide and them to look at the originals, and 2] to point out that all websites that we use will have many errors. If we are responsible researchers, we will realize this and dig further. As to the post about the man who was transcribing newspapers and getting complaints about the volume of his posts: Last year I transcribed portions of a number of old Cleveland Co. newspapers from 1860s and 1880s and I posted them regularly on the Cleveland list. I never had any complaints about volume or number of posts, in fact only emails of thanks or requesting info/location of the microfilm. I am sorry this man has had complaints and I hope he will keep posting---most people who subscribe to such a list want this information and it is a service to other researchers. I enjoyed doing my transcriptions and it was a joy to know others were helped. Thanks to all of you out there who have helped me in my research, and there are many of you! Lynn Wesson Hillsborough, NC

Dear Bill, First of all, I am so very sorry that you receive rude and inappropriate messages. You are the 2nd person in about 3 weeks who I have seen talk about that. The other person is also discouraged and has stopped posting. In his case, he is transcribing newspapers from the late 1800's and early 1900's and posting the genealogy related information to a message board. That message board is gatewayed and so the messages go through to the list. Apparently he is getting complaints about the "volume" of the postings. I can't explain why that happens. I can't explain why people behave the way they do. And.. while I am not normally a betting person, I would be willing to bet that the folks who complain are the same folks who haven't raised a hand to assist anyone else. But.... what I can do is tell you a little bit about you and what you represent to me and others. First of all, I ran into you early on - on line that is...<g>. You helped me out with some information and some hints on how to find some information. You took the time to send me a private e-mail. So.... although you never realized it you became one of the early members of my "on-line family". The folks where I work have heard about Bill Floyd and they aren't even interested in genealogy. But they have heard about this "such a nice person" who does all this work for others. Next, you gave me the opportunity to have information I would not have had in any other way. You give your time and effort and put it out there for all of us. You also serve as an inspiration to the rest of us - oldsters that is....<g>. I can't do what you do. I am not "portable" so to speak. But... your example serves as an example and encouragement to all of us to do what we can to help as well. So I help folks in other ways - with searches, hunt census records for folks, do look-ups, etc. In part because of your example. You serve as an example in another way. What a wonderful example you are to new folks just starting out in genealogy. You serve to introduce them to possibilities for the future and what can happen when folks move from concentrating only on their own lines to helping others. Again, I am so very sorry about the postings you are receiving and I understand how discouraging that can be. But I also hope that what I and others have said will help you understand how valuable you and your efforts are to so very many folks. Valuable not just for the data you provide but because of the example you set. You take care, Emma

Folks I just recieved the CD listing of the original surveys of the Cleveland Co., NC Cemeteries in 1939. It is a superb work. For many of you folks that can't seem to find the final resting place of your ancestors in the Cleveland/Rutherford Co., NC area may find them on this disk. As I looked at it I found many cemeteries that was on my website and I may have had only one or two readable because the rest had been destroyed since the 1939 survey. Here is the URL for obtaining the disk. http://www.hartshorn.us/ClevelandWPA.htm I am not affiliated with this project at all even though I do know the people. Bill

Dear Bill, Please, please keep your web site going! It is a wonderful resource and I think that most people appreciate it very much! As for those who complain or want something changed...while I can understand that they want the information to be correct, they should try to understand how difficult it is when someone is dealing with the volume of information you have published. Do these people ask someone who has published a book to go back and correct an item and republish it? No, when one runs across a possible error, one should make notations in his or her research to address the error and move on. We're getting kinda spoiled by the instantaneousness of the Internet. Big corporations and .coms have staff to handle updates, as someone who has both designed and maintained web sites, I can tell you it isn't always easy for a small company or personal site to keep up with changes. My suggestion would be to create a form letter to those that ask for corrections, spelling out what you just posted to the list. When you get a complaint, fire off the form letter...then ignore anything else.

Bill: Even though I live in Rutherford County, your site has given me lots of help many times. Maybe I could go and update a cemeteries. Thanks for your work. We need to meet I don't live that far away. Ron Arrowood Sunshine, Rutherford Co., NC

Hi Bill, Please don't change your site. You and your site have helped me find my family in Cleveland Co. I would have been lost so many times if not for your site and the hard work you have done. Your site lead me right to the graves of my many Grandparents in the Cemeteries of Cleveland Co. in one day, with out your help it would of took me many weeks of searching. Please don't let a few hurt you and the rest of us. For each one who complains there are hundreds who thanks God for your help and your love of helping people. I've never found an error free web site online in my 9 years of being online. So please don't change your site or close it up. We love you Bill :) Sincerely, Jean

What warts? Bill doesn't have any. He's perfect as he is! Bill, we all love and appreciate you for all your hard work and generosity in sharing it. You are truly one of a kind! Claudia -----Original Message----- From: Iris F Reily [mailto:iris@reily.org] Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 1:36 PM To: NCRUTHER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NCRUTHER-L] Feedback about my webpage Dear Bill, Of course anyone who DOES anything productive gets static. It shouldn't be that way, but it is... Those who don't DO anything have no idea how difficult it is to be 100% correct all of the time. Because, they don't DO anything so they can't ever be wrong. .... I for one love you warts and all. Love and Hugs, Iris F. Reily ----- Original Message ----- From: "W. D. Floyd" <wdfloyd@rfci.net> To: <NCRUTHER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, 06 May, 2005 12:48 PM Subject: [NCRUTHER-L] Feedback about my webpage As most of you know I have several pages on my site http://.www.rfci.net/wdfloyd that is nothing but genealogy pertaining to Cleveland and Rutherford Co., NC. On most of them at the start I have explained that there would be many errors and that I could not correct them because I would have to completely re-work that particular family and since I have went to the trouble to make an all name index so that books could be printed from it. Making changes would cause the index to become useless. Anyone that has done much of this type work can see how errors can be made with many people with the same name and the age about the same and maybe have a wife with the same name then sometimes you choose the wrong one. An error can also easily be made with cemetery records. As all that has ever put a bunch of info online knows you will get lots of "thank yous" and every error that you have made will eventually be pointed out and you get the "third degree" when you want change it. I have! a solution and that is to take all of this type information off my webpage. I have just got fed up enough to do this but I would like to know if it is really that helpful or not to leave it online and just take the static. Does anyone use any of this info? I do understand how everyone wants everything perfect. I do to but it is impossible. Let me hear a little feedback about this. Bill ==== NCRUTHER Mailing List ==== To contact the list owner NCRuther-admin@rootsweb.com ==== NCRUTHER Mailing List ==== Subscribing: Clicking on one of the shortcut links below should work, but if your browser doesn't understand them, try these manual instructions: to join NCRUTHER-L, send mail to NCRUTHER-L-request@rootsweb.com with the single word subscribe in the message subject and body. To join NCRUTHER-D, do the same thing with NCRUTHER-D-request@rootsweb.com. Unsubscribing: To leave NCRUTHER-L, send mail to NCRUTHER-L-request@rootsweb.com with the single word unsubscribe in the message subject and body. To leave NCRUTHER-D, do the same thing with NCRUTHER-D-request@rootsweb.com. For questions about this list, contact the list administrator at NCRUTHER-admin@rootsweb.com