By 1820, the sons were all out of the house--along with their half brothers. I doubt if Isabella would have wanted her husband's misdeeds around. I suspect from various records in which Bradley Collins was regularly witnessing marriages and other events for his second wife's family, that Bradley and his half brothers were living with the Rays in 1820 but by 1825 they were all in Kentucky. Most males of the day if they knew they were about to die and could write, wrote a will, regardless of whether the wife was alive or not. I have MANY will records where the wife was still alive. Prior to recent years, the estate did NOT automatically pass to the wife when a man died. The law usually required an intestate estate to be divided between wife and children with most of the real estate and personal property sold and the wife retaining a life time "use" of the house--if she got that much. Prior to the Revolution, without a will it all went to the oldest son. With a will, the oldest son still got the largest share, unless his father made a substantial prior to death settlement, such as at marriage. In fact as recently as 30 years ago, a woman could not get credit in her own name, and only about 70-80 years ago, if a woman worked her pay was handed to her husband, or her oldest son, or other close male relative. Women were not allowed to own property in their own name if she was married or had a father still living or a son. Heck we didn't even get the vote until the end of World War I!--in the 20th century! I take it you're not real familiar with the general social and legal history of the U.S.. Do you get the history channel or public television where you are? I realize there are still areas of the U.S. that get neither and plenty of people even in areas that do get these channels through cable television or satellite television that for one reason or another don't use either and thus don't get them. It can be expensive for the one and God help you if you live in a canyon, deep valley or woods for the other. I live in a city, but have very tall eucalyptus trees in the direction I'd need to tilt a dish so I ended up with cable if I wanted something other than the usual pretty stupid "major network" television. I still spend more time reading, either books or stuff on-line rather than watching even educational television--when I have significant free time. Anyhow,my late mother, Wilma Maie Wallace-Fabos, organized and led the first strike in the nation for "comparable worth" in the city of San Jose against the City of San Jose in July, 1981. Prior to 1976, discrimination of all kinds was legal against women and you couldn't get credit in your own name. I still remember the first time I had my own checking account (savings you could have) and my own credit card. Her mother was one of of the first certified building maintenance "engineers" and then could use her certificate or hold that kind of job because (a) she "deceived" the college by mail program by using initials when she studied along side her father and then secretly took the test under her name with initials. Her parents both threatened to disown her if she ever tried to use the certificate. Her father eventually did for other reasons, mostly brought on by Jessie's other behaviors, which alienated nearly everyone in her life at the time. When she first did work, the checks were made out by her employer to her husband. Even after her divorce, for a time they were made out to her oldest son, and then her second husband--and this was in Los Angeles in the 1930's! Sincerely, Cecilia -----Original Message----- From: ncorange-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ncorange-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of rlmlfm@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 4:35 PM To: NCORANGE@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NCORANGE] Andrew Collins Cecilia, It seems unlikely?that your ancestor?Andrew Collins had a will since his wife Isabella Collins was still living in Orange County, NC after Andrew's death about 1820 as you stated.? If he did have a will, I suspect that it would be found?in Orange County.? You might try seeing if you can find his estate records,?the administrator's bond (who the administrator of his estate was), the inventory of his estate, and the sale and/or settlement of his estate documents.? Isabella Collins is listed on the 1820 Orange County census with only herself, age 45 & up, and two white females, one age 10-16 years, and one age 16-26 years.? There were no males of any race and there were no slaves listed as living with Isabella. Linda ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NCORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM

Dear Cecilia: I am sorry?that you felt the need to attack me personally when I was only offering my help?with your genealogical research and a few alternative suggestions that might be worth investigating. I disagree with?what you said, "Most males of the day if they knew they were about to die and could write, wrote a will, regardless of whether the wife was alive or not.? I have MANY will records where the wife was still alive.", in fact, only a small percentage of men left a will no matter whether they were old or young. By the way, I am very thorough in all areas of my genealogy research and have been asked by a professional genealogist to submit some of my work to be published in a genealogical journal. Good luck with you research. Regards, Linda -----Original Message----- From: Celia Becker <celia.lfsbecker@sbcglobal.net> To: ncorange@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 1:51 am Subject: Re: [NCORANGE] Andrew Collins By 1820, the sons were all out of the house--along with their half brothers. I doubt if Isabella would have wanted her husband's misdeeds around. I suspect from various records in which Bradley Collins was regularly witnessing marriages and other events for his second wife's family, that Bradley and his half brothers were living with the Rays in 1820 but by 1825 they were all in Kentucky. Most males of the day if they knew they were about to die and could write, wrote a will, regardless of whether the wife was alive or not. I have MANY will records where the wife was still alive. Prior to recent years, the estate did NOT automatically pass to the wife when a man died. The law usually required an intestate estate to be divided between wife and children with most of the real estate and personal property sold and the wife retaining a life time "use" of the house--if she got that much. Prior to the Revolution, without a will it all went to the oldest son. With a will, the oldest son still got the largest share, unless his father made a substantial prior to death settlement, such as at marriage. In fact as recently as 30 years ago, a woman could not get credit in her own name, and only about 70-80 years ago, if a woman worked her pay was handed to her husband, or her oldest son, or other close male relative. Women were not allowed to own property in their own name if she was married or had a father still living or a son. Heck we didn't even get the vote until the end of World War I!--in the 20th century! I take it you're not real familiar with the general social and legal history of the U.S.. Do you get the history channel or public television where you are? I realize there are still areas of the U.S. that get neither and plenty of people even in areas that do get these channels through cable television or satellite television that for one reason or another don't use either and thus don't get them. It can be expensive for the one and God help you if you live in a canyon, deep valley or woods for the other. I live in a city, but have very tall eucalyptus trees in the direction I'd need to tilt a dish so I ended up with cable if I wanted something other than the usual pretty stupid "major network" television. I still spend more time reading, either books or stuff on-line rather than watching even educational television--when I have significant free time. Anyhow,my late mother, Wilma Maie Wallace-Fabos, organized and led the first strike in the nation for "comparable worth" in the city of San Jose against the City of San Jose in July, 1981. Prior to 1976, discrimination of all kinds was legal against women and you couldn't get credit in your own name. I still remember the first time I had my own checking account (savings you could have) and my own credit card. Her mother was one of of the first certified building maintenance "engineers" and then could use her certificate or hold that kind of job because (a) she "deceived" the college by mail program by using initials when she studied along side her father and then secretly took the test under her name with initials. Her parents both threatened to disown her if she ever tried to use the certificate. Her father eventually did for other reasons, mostly brought on by Jessie's other behaviors, which alienated nearly everyone in her life at the time. When she first did work, the checks were made out by her employer to her husband. Even after her divorce, for a time they were made out to her oldest son, and then her second husband--and this was in Los Angeles in the 1930's! Sincerely, Cecilia -----Original Message----- From: ncorange-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ncorange-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of rlmlfm@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 4:35 PM To: NCORANGE@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NCORANGE] Andrew Collins Cecilia, It seems unlikely?that your ancestor?Andrew Collins had a will since his wife Isabella Collins was still living in Orange County, NC after Andrew's death about 1820 as you stated.? If he did have a will, I suspect that it would be found?in Orange County.? You might try seeing if you can find his estate records,?the administrator's bond (who the administrator of his estate was), the inventory of his estate, and the sale and/or settlement of his estate documents.? Isabella Collins is listed on the 1820 Orange County census with only herself, age 45 & up, and two white females, one age 10-16 years, and one age 16-26 years.? There were no males of any race and there were no slaves listed as living with Isabella. Linda ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NCORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 10:26 AM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NCORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com