Dear Linda and group; I didn't intend a personal attack any more than I'm sure Linda meant any. I am also a professional genealogist--and historian, and have contributed to books and publications as others probably have done. I've been happily noting that more people are doing family history who have also obtained degrees in history and anthropology or sociology like I have and some of the professionals in northern California. It was a real tiny group about 30 years ago. I'm happy to have more company in it. There was a qualifier in what I sent, IF it was noted. IF a man knew he was about to die, and IF he could write he usually wrote a will. How many men anticipated their own deaths if they were in their 40's, 50's and even early 60's from say heart attack, stroke, a fall off a horse, or any other of the more common sudden ends of life possible. Even cholera could be a one-day death event. Now back to my Andrew Collins. It's clear I'll have to look for administration records for his estate since a will has not turned up. Also I'll have to look for some deeds of property, probably just after her marriage, for Isabella Hastings Collins from her father Henry C. Hastings Sr. I'll probably have to check with the state archives about what's available for these types of records. If anyone is familiar with finding records at the archives and what they charge for search and copies or if I have to employ a non-archives researcher to first find the records then make copies on account of budget cuts in deficit tax years, please let me know. Yes, I'm sure I can send a query to the archives itself, but practical experience from someone else is always useful. Besides, depending upon how understaffed and otherwise swamped the archives itself is, I could be waiting awhile just for an informational response. I've been through that a few times recently, also. It would sure be nice if local to state level politicians would find something else to cut other than roads, parks, libraries, police and fire, and records departments. Is there anything that people do today in any kind of legal transaction that doesn't involve a trip to a records department, let alone putting together a good well-documented family history??? Cecilia -----Original Message----- From: ncorange-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ncorange-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jerry M. Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:46 PM To: ncorange@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NCORANGE] Andrew Collins Hey ladies, back off. I just went through this on another list. jerrym ----- Original Message ----- From: <rlmlfm@aol.com> To: <ncorange@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [NCORANGE] Andrew Collins > > Dear Cecilia: > > I am sorry?that you felt the need to attack me personally when I was > only > offering my help?with your genealogical research and a few alternative > suggestions that might be worth investigating. > > I disagree with?what you said, "Most males of the day if they knew > they > were about to die and could write, wrote a will, regardless of whether the > wife was alive or not.? I have MANY > will records where the wife was still alive.", in fact, only a small > percentage of men left a will no matter whether they were old or young. > > By the way, I am very thorough in all areas of my genealogy research > and > have been asked by a professional genealogist to submit some of my work to > be published in a genealogical journal. > > > Good luck with you research. > > Regards, > > Linda > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Celia Becker <celia.lfsbecker@sbcglobal.net> > To: ncorange@rootsweb.com > Sent: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 1:51 am > Subject: Re: [NCORANGE] Andrew Collins > > > > > By 1820, the sons were all out of the house--along with their half > brothers. > I doubt if Isabella would have wanted her husband's misdeeds around. I > suspect from various records in which Bradley Collins was regularly > witnessing marriages and other events for his second wife's family, that > Bradley and his half brothers were living with the Rays in 1820 but by > 1825 > they were all in Kentucky. > > Most males of the day if they knew they were about to die and could > write, wrote a will, regardless of whether the wife was alive or not. > I have MANY will records where the wife was still alive. > > Prior to recent years, the estate did NOT automatically pass to the > wife when a man died. The law usually required an intestate estate to > be divided between wife and children with most of the real estate and > personal property > sold and the wife retaining a life time "use" of the house--if she got > that > much. Prior to the Revolution, without a will it all went to the oldest > son. With a will, the oldest son still got the largest share, unless his > father made a substantial prior to death settlement, such as at marriage. > In fact as recently as 30 years ago, a woman could not get credit in her > own > name, and only about 70-80 years ago, if a woman worked her pay was handed > to her husband, or her oldest son, or other close male relative. Women > were > not allowed to own property in their own name if she was married or had a > father still living or a son. > > Heck we didn't even get the vote until the end of World War I!--in the > 20th > century! > > I take it you're not real familiar with the general social and legal > history > of the U.S.. Do you get the history channel or public television where > you > are? I realize there are still areas of the U.S. that get neither and > plenty of people even in areas that do get these channels through cable > television or satellite television that for one reason or another don't > use > either and thus don't get them. It can be expensive for the one and God > help you if you live in a canyon, deep valley or woods for the other. I > live in a city, but have very tall eucalyptus trees in the direction I'd > need to tilt a dish so I ended up with cable if I wanted something other > than the usual pretty stupid "major network" television. I still spend > more > time reading, either books or stuff on-line rather than watching even > educational television--when I have significant free time. > > Anyhow,my late mother, Wilma Maie Wallace-Fabos, organized and led the > first > strike in the nation for "comparable worth" in the city of San Jose > against > the City of San Jose in July, 1981. Prior to 1976, discrimination of all > kinds was legal against women and you couldn't get credit in your own > name. > I still remember the first time I had my own checking account (savings you > could have) and my own credit card. Her mother was one of of the first > certified building maintenance "engineers" and then could use her > certificate or hold that kind of job because (a) she "deceived" the > college > by mail program by using initials when she studied along side her father > and > then secretly took the test under her name with initials. Her parents > both > threatened to disown her if she ever tried to use the certificate. Her > father eventually did for other reasons, mostly brought on by Jessie's > other > behaviors, which alienated nearly everyone in her life at the time. When > she first did work, the checks were made out by her employer to her > husband. > Even after her divorce, for a time they were made out to her oldest son, > and > then her second husband--and this was in Los Angeles in the 1930's! > > Sincerely, > > Cecilia > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ncorange-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:ncorange-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of rlmlfm@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 4:35 PM > To: NCORANGE@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [NCORANGE] Andrew Collins > > > > Cecilia, > > It seems unlikely?that your ancestor?Andrew Collins had a will since > his wife Isabella Collins was still living in Orange County, NC after > Andrew's death about 1820 as you stated.? If he did have a will, I > suspect that it would be found?in Orange County.? You might try seeing > if you can find his estate records,?the administrator's bond (who the > administrator of his estate was), the inventory of his estate, and the > sale and/or settlement of his estate documents.? > > Isabella Collins is listed on the 1820 Orange County census with only > herself, age 45 & up, and two white females, one age 10-16 years, and > one age 16-26 years.? There were no males of any race and there were > no slaves listed as living with Isabella. > > Linda > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - > http://webmail.aol.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NCORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in > this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 > 10:26 AM > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1289 - Release Date: > 2/20/2008 10:26 AM > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NCORANGE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - > http://webmail.aol.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NCORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1290 - Release Date: 2/20/2008 > 8:45 PM > > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1587 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NCORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1291 - Release Date: 2/21/2008 11:05 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1291 - Release Date: 2/21/2008 11:05 AM

>If anyone is familiar with finding records at the archives and what they >charge for search and copies or if I have to employ a non-archives >researcher to first find the records then make copies on account of budget >cuts in deficit tax years, please let me know. Yes, I'm sure I can send a >query to the archives itself, but practical experience from someone else is >always useful. The price schedule and ordering information are on the archives web site at http://www.ah.dcr.state.nc.us/archives/mail.htm I've had no experience with mail orders, and don't know how long it takes, but I've found the staff on site to be very helpful. The loose estates records are filed by county, and within a county, by surname. They are easy and quick to search. Searching deeds is considerably more time-consuming, in my experience. I regret that I can't offer to look up the records for you. I rarely have a chance to visit the archives myself these days, and I have a very long list of my own work to do. -- Elizabeth Harris ncgen@mindspring.com Personal genealogy webpage: http://www.duke.edu/web/chlamy Winston-Salem NC area genealogy: http://www.fmoran.com/ HOLDER DNA project: http://www.mindspring.com/~holderdna/