Hi Sheila, You have been busy with your research! I am not of the Robert Ramsey family, I just lean on him from time to time - he was "a gentleman and a scholar" indeed. Let's look at the water courses. Those creeks in question which remained in Mecklenburg Co. are tributaries of the Catawba River, being East of the Catawba...and there are TWO McDowell Creeks and at least TWO Miller Creeks to survey. 1. McDOWELL Cr. E of Catawba River - located just South of Davidson Cr. in Northern Mecklenburg near present day Iredell Co., formerly Rowan Co. Joseph McDowell obtained a land patent in 1749 for 400 acres on what was originally called "Rocky Cr." (then Anson Co.) "that runs into Catawba river below Davison's creek (Davidson Cr.) about a mile above the Indian path crosses the sd. creek." The headwaters of McDowell Cr. are close to the former Davidson Cr. Davidson Cr. is a part of present day Lake Norman, as well as Miller Cr. and Ramsey Cr., all former tributaries of the Catawba in Northern Mecklenburg. (More on the Miller Creeks later) Davidson Cr. is where John CATHY settled after he came from Ireland to VA to claim his brother, William's, land in the Shenandoah Valley. After discovering the family had gone to NC, John Cathey took up land on the east side of the Catawba River near the mouth of Davidson Cr. in present day Mecklenburg Co. (Carolina Cradle: p. 38 & footnote # 85). I have not searched the VA or NC records for the details. Another John Cathy was on that part of Rocky River which remained in Rowan Co. In 1779, William Waddle purchased 450 A in Mecklenburg Co. on McDowell's Cr., boarded by Dennis McFall, David Waddle & Widow Duckworth. This is McDowell's Cr. just South of former Davidson Cr. in Mecklenburg Co. William Waddle is still found there in the 1790 census as head of household, with 3 male children under 16, 3 female children and 1 female head of house. From this census data and land records we know that William Waddle would have been born 1753 - 1758. [legal age to marry 21, and no children over 16; and legal age to buy land 21]. Was there another William Waddle family enumerated in the NC census of 1790? Only one William Waddle found in NC for the 1790 US Census - Mecklenburg Co., NW section. When and how did William and Jane Waddle dispose of their land in Rowan Co? (Did Wm & Jane have a Wm?) The # 7 for that district is an arbitrary number, as it was the seventh section (NW) of Mecklenburg Co. the enumerate visited, and the visitation route matches closely those of the "Capt's Districts" (tax purposes and militia districts) which is probably what the enumerator was following. 2. McDOWELL Cr. - found on the N. side of Broad River, which covers present day York Co. and Cherokee Co., SC and Cleveland Co., NC. (formerly Mecklenburg & Tryon). James Simral & wf. Violet of Meck. convey to Jennet Irvin of Rowan Co. 200 A on N. side of Broad River on McDowel's Creek, including the fork of the creek granted to James Simral 1767. (became Tyron Co. in 1769) In 1777, William Waddel and wf. Jane of "Rowan Co., NC" sold to James Miller of Tryon 200 A on McDowell's Cr., originally granted to Jacob Simerl in 1767. Wm & Jane's deed was approved in Tyron Co. Ct. in 1778, so this land is in Tyron Co. Also in 1777, Jacob Simerl purchased 300 A in Tryon Co. from Benj'n Shaw, being approved in Tyron Co. Ct. in 1778, following Wm & Jane's approval. 1. MILLER'S Cr. - In a 1764 NC land patent to Andrew Downs the land is described as 200 acres in Mecklenburg on Davison's (Davidson) Creek and Millers Creek, and being near Widow Givens, joining a Dutchman's land. Their was one early settler (1749) known as the Dutchman, whose land was directly across the Catawba. He was John Killian on Dutchman's or Killian's Cr. (W side Catawba), with the upper part of the same creek known as Ramsey's Cr. This area was taken into Tryon Co., in 1769 and Lincoln Co. in 1779. This Ramsey's Cr. was named after John Ramsey of Martic Township, Lancaster Co., PA. John Ramsey bought his land from Andrew Killen, and Andrew Killen's land remained adjacent to the Catawba River. In 1777, Andrew Downs and wf. Ann of Meck. sold the land on Miller's Cr. to James Maxwell. So Miller's Cr. is still in Mecklenburg Co. in 1777, as opposed to Tryon Co. This Miller's Cr. would be included within the waters of Lake Norman. There were several land owners on Miller Cr. found in Dist. # 7 NW section of Mecklenburg Co., 1790 census: William Waddle, John Wiley, Samuel Irvin, William Hill and Amos Alexander, who also owned land on Armour's Cr. This falls in line with the Davidson Cr. area. There is a Mecklenburg Co. court case filed in 1774: Excrs. of Wyly vs. William Waddle and Henry Walker. The court minutes of the proceedings may reveal some family information. Ramsey Cr. (E. side Catawba) - was below Davidson Cr., probably named after the family of Col. Francis A. Ramsay, who married a dau. of John McKnitt Alexander. Ramsey Cr. now part of Lake Norman in Mecklenburg Co. 2. MILLER's Cr. - This Miller's Cr. was E of the Catawba River (Mecklenburg Co.), and may have been a small tributary of the waters of Armour's Mill Cr. or Armour's Cr., which led to the Catawba. This was in the area of the Steele Creek Settlement, and this "Miller's Cr" appears also lost to history. It may have been named after James Miller, who obtained a land grant on Amour's Cr. in 1765. This may be the same James Miller, who bought the land in Tryon Co. from William and Jane Waddle. Jame Miller did move closer to the Catawba in Tryon Co., but I cannot recal the creek. (I've seen Jane's name "Jean" also in a land deed - the names seem interchangeable then). In 1767 Amos Alexander of Meck. conveyed to Benjamin Cohorn (Cohron) 100 A on E side Catawba on waters of Armour's Mill branch at a corner of Ramsey and Miller, as witnessed by John Cathey. More convincing is the following deed record: in 1796, James Waddle sold 200 A on the E side of Catawba, adj. Jonathan Potts, Reece Morgan, Thos. Erwin and Will Graham, "being the land conveyed to David Waddle, then to the (this) grantor (James Waddle)." This is fruitful by not only identifying James Waddle as a son of David Waddle, but the land is also adj. to Reece Morgan, who was a cousin to William Ramsey, who held land on Armour's Mill Cr. This ties in Miller's Cr., Armour's Mill Cr., the Waddles and Ramsey's to the same location. William Ramsey of Armour's Cr. purchased 200 A on the Catawba River (Armour's Cr.) from Rees/Reece Morgan, who left his will in 1776, bequeathing all his estate to his cousin William Ramsey. Wit: Wm. Graham, Archibald Ramsey and John Robertson. Archibald Ramsey was also a kinsman. The William and Archibald Ramsey families removed to GA. The Mecklenburg Co. records show that William Waddle owned land on McDowell Cr. and Miller's Cr.#1 and #2; and there are other deeds showing more conveyances for these tracts. It seems highly probable that David Waddle, the father, held the Miller's Cr. # 2 land first and by tradition conveyed it to his senior son, James Waddle. PS My ancestors were Robert Boyd and William Ramsey on the Long Creek and the Gum Branch. Robert Boyd was on the Gum Branch by 1759, and his dau. Agnes/Nancy Boyd married William Ramsey. John Boyd, Nancy's brother, was with them, and he eventually moved across the Catawba into Tryon/Lincoln Co. The were also allied families with the Sullivans in the Long Cr. Settlement. The Ramsey's removed to Rutherford Co., TN c1802. Lee Ramsey Dallas, GA In 1780 David Waddle obtained a 40 A tract on Miller's Cr. adjacent Waddle (himself), William Ramsey and Amos Alexander; and a 60 A tract on Miller's Cr. adjacent Wm. Graham and Samuel Duckworth.