I am not sure this is a question that can be answered here, but does anyone on the list know if there were Melungeons reported to be as far east as Lincoln Co. in the 1820s? Thanks, Lynn Wesson -----Original Message----- From: Robert and Sue Carpenter [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 10:25 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Fw: [NCLINCOLN] Indian capture>>>> Melungeons Dear folks, I have been reading some of your writings over the last few nights but have not had time to make comments. I have now found some time. First, the issue of an Indian capture in the 1830's or so. This would be highly unlikely in the Gaston-Lincoln-Catawba County area. This is the period when the Cherokees were removed west. Any contact with Indians would have been in western NC. The Cherokee posed a serious threat to white settlers until the American Revolution. While the major Cherokee War which occurred in 1760-61 was cited here, the Cherokees did pose a threat upon the frontier in 1775-76. But the frontier at this time was not Lincoln and Catawba County but rather present Burke and McDowell Counties. The Indians raided white settlements at Old Fort and at Pleasant Gardens at that time and General Griffith Rutherford took a 1000 man militia force over the mountains. His soldiers did not fight many Indians, most of whom had fled. But rather they simply burned villages and crops. Their destruction in the Cherokee Expedition of 1776 left the Cherokee nation much weaker. But near the end of the Revolution in 1781 and 82 rumours of Indian activity resurfaced upon this western frontier. Again local militia officers from our area raised units and marched westward destroying towns, crops, and women and children. The Cherokees never again were seen as a serious threat to the white settlers. But whites continued to trade with them, to marry them, and to come into contact with them. Melungeons -- what an interesting topic. This unusual group of mixed race people from the mountains of Appalachia has been the source of much confusion. I have read Brent Kennedy's book and find the research fascinating. Unfortunately without DNA evidence or archaeological evidence I suspect that the truth may remain unconfirmed. Little written information about these people exist and most of it was written by the Melungeon's adversaries. The suggestion that they may descend from Portuguese and Spanish explorers who lived in western NC with Juan Pardo is possible but also questionable. Too little evidence yet exists to prove their unique existence except as a mixed race people of the Appalachian Mountians. Of course that makes DNA testing suspect. DNA testing is another tool for genealogists. I have tested my DNA at the request of a Carpenter descendant from California. He traced his line to Georgia, to a John T. Carpenter who was born in NC. He could not trace any further back. He suspected that he was descended from a Lincoln County Carpenter but could only find circumstancial evidence. He talked me into having my DNA tested. If we matched we could surmise that he was related in the manner he suspected. We did in fact match with only one marker off. We have since concluded that he belongs to our Carpenter family. We are encouraging other Carpenters from this area to have their DNA tested so that we might prove that all the descendants of the earliest Carpenter/Zimmermans are closely related. So far three of us have matched. We need, like Mr. Cosner, more people to be tested. I encourage anyone who is interested to get tested. Our test is the Y chromosone test which applies to males only. There is a X test for females. I am not as familiar with that test except that it is done. I have enjoyed all the discussions. Robert Carpenter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derick Hartshorn" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [NCLINCOLN] Indian capture>>>> Melungeons > One of the most recent History Channel presentations was on a subject near > and dear to the hearts of researchers in this area: > the Melungeon > http://www.melungeon.org/?BISKIT=%3C$::BISKIT%3E&CONTEXT=cat&cat=10023 as > studied in DNA. > Abe Lincoln is said to be a Melungeon. They quote: > > WEIRD U.S. continues with an investigation into the Melungeons. In 1673, > when the "first" settlers arrived in Appalachia, they discovered an entire > group of people already living there. These people -- the Melungeons -- > were of unknown ancestry. They had physical traits common to Northern > Europeans, Africans, and Native Americans, as well as unique physical > characteristics like "shovel teeth" and a prominent bump at the back of the > skull. Yet, where had they come from? Were they descendants of early > sailors? Were they a lost colony that no one knew about? Today, many people > in the south think of Melungeons as little more than mythical trolls who > lived in the mountains. Yet, the Melungeons were real and their ancestors > are alive and well. The WEIRD U.S. team undertakes the mission of figuring > out who these people really were utilizing modern DNA testing procedures. > [see www.historychannel.com for listings]. > > --Derick > > > > At 02:25 PM 12/14/2004, [email protected] wrote: > >Right on, Crystal. You've just described the process of genealogical > >research whether we are looking for Indian, Polish, Italian, or > >fill-in-the-blank ancestors. Most of us on this List are wandering around > >out there with you! > > > >The original inquiry produced some interesting exchanges, and I've enjoyed > >the messages. > > > >Kathy Sullivan > > > >>In a message dated 12/14/2004 11:07:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, > >>[email protected] writes: > >> > >>Almost any family lore that includes Indian relationships or experiences > >>requires cautious (skeptical) examination. > >> > >>Kathy Sullivan > >>********************************************* > >> > >>My family, both sides, have told stories over the years of our Indian > >>heritage. I do believe there is Indian blood, but do I believe it exactly > >>as it has been carried? No. I believe you have to look under stones not > >>yet turned over. I believe you have to definitely read between the lines. > >>Go places no one else has gone. All of this is necessary in tracking > >>down Indian Ancestors. Even then, there is a strong possibility that what > >>you know in your heart to be true, may never be proven. There were too > >>many secrets. Too much shame placed. Too much running from the truth. > >>Crystal Murphy > >>Lincoln Co. NC Descendant > >>Wandering around in search of lost Ancestors > >> > > > > > > > >==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== > >==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== > >Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC > >For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm > >Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page > > > > > > ==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== > ==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== > Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC > For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm > Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page > ==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== ==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page

Dear folks, I have been reading some of your writings over the last few nights but have not had time to make comments. I have now found some time. First, the issue of an Indian capture in the 1830's or so. This would be highly unlikely in the Gaston-Lincoln-Catawba County area. This is the period when the Cherokees were removed west. Any contact with Indians would have been in western NC. The Cherokee posed a serious threat to white settlers until the American Revolution. While the major Cherokee War which occurred in 1760-61 was cited here, the Cherokees did pose a threat upon the frontier in 1775-76. But the frontier at this time was not Lincoln and Catawba County but rather present Burke and McDowell Counties. The Indians raided white settlements at Old Fort and at Pleasant Gardens at that time and General Griffith Rutherford took a 1000 man militia force over the mountains. His soldiers did not fight many Indians, most of whom had fled. But rather they simply burned villages and crops. Their destruction in the Cherokee Expedition of 1776 left the Cherokee nation much weaker. But near the end of the Revolution in 1781 and 82 rumours of Indian activity resurfaced upon this western frontier. Again local militia officers from our area raised units and marched westward destroying towns, crops, and women and children. The Cherokees never again were seen as a serious threat to the white settlers. But whites continued to trade with them, to marry them, and to come into contact with them. Melungeons -- what an interesting topic. This unusual group of mixed race people from the mountains of Appalachia has been the source of much confusion. I have read Brent Kennedy's book and find the research fascinating. Unfortunately without DNA evidence or archaeological evidence I suspect that the truth may remain unconfirmed. Little written information about these people exist and most of it was written by the Melungeon's adversaries. The suggestion that they may descend from Portuguese and Spanish explorers who lived in western NC with Juan Pardo is possible but also questionable. Too little evidence yet exists to prove their unique existence except as a mixed race people of the Appalachian Mountians. Of course that makes DNA testing suspect. DNA testing is another tool for genealogists. I have tested my DNA at the request of a Carpenter descendant from California. He traced his line to Georgia, to a John T. Carpenter who was born in NC. He could not trace any further back. He suspected that he was descended from a Lincoln County Carpenter but could only find circumstancial evidence. He talked me into having my DNA tested. If we matched we could surmise that he was related in the manner he suspected. We did in fact match with only one marker off. We have since concluded that he belongs to our Carpenter family. We are encouraging other Carpenters from this area to have their DNA tested so that we might prove that all the descendants of the earliest Carpenter/Zimmermans are closely related. So far three of us have matched. We need, like Mr. Cosner, more people to be tested. I encourage anyone who is interested to get tested. Our test is the Y chromosone test which applies to males only. There is a X test for females. I am not as familiar with that test except that it is done. I have enjoyed all the discussions. Robert Carpenter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derick Hartshorn" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [NCLINCOLN] Indian capture>>>> Melungeons > One of the most recent History Channel presentations was on a subject near > and dear to the hearts of researchers in this area: > the Melungeon > http://www.melungeon.org/?BISKIT=%3C$::BISKIT%3E&CONTEXT=cat&cat=10023 as > studied in DNA. > Abe Lincoln is said to be a Melungeon. They quote: > > WEIRD U.S. continues with an investigation into the Melungeons. In 1673, > when the "first" settlers arrived in Appalachia, they discovered an entire > group of people already living there. These people -- the Melungeons -- > were of unknown ancestry. They had physical traits common to Northern > Europeans, Africans, and Native Americans, as well as unique physical > characteristics like "shovel teeth" and a prominent bump at the back of the > skull. Yet, where had they come from? Were they descendants of early > sailors? Were they a lost colony that no one knew about? Today, many people > in the south think of Melungeons as little more than mythical trolls who > lived in the mountains. Yet, the Melungeons were real and their ancestors > are alive and well. The WEIRD U.S. team undertakes the mission of figuring > out who these people really were utilizing modern DNA testing procedures. > [see www.historychannel.com for listings]. > > --Derick > > > > At 02:25 PM 12/14/2004, [email protected] wrote: > >Right on, Crystal. You've just described the process of genealogical > >research whether we are looking for Indian, Polish, Italian, or > >fill-in-the-blank ancestors. Most of us on this List are wandering around > >out there with you! > > > >The original inquiry produced some interesting exchanges, and I've enjoyed > >the messages. > > > >Kathy Sullivan > > > >>In a message dated 12/14/2004 11:07:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, > >>[email protected] writes: > >> > >>Almost any family lore that includes Indian relationships or experiences > >>requires cautious (skeptical) examination. > >> > >>Kathy Sullivan > >>********************************************* > >> > >>My family, both sides, have told stories over the years of our Indian > >>heritage. I do believe there is Indian blood, but do I believe it exactly > >>as it has been carried? No. I believe you have to look under stones not > >>yet turned over. I believe you have to definitely read between the lines. > >>Go places no one else has gone. All of this is necessary in tracking > >>down Indian Ancestors. Even then, there is a strong possibility that what > >>you know in your heart to be true, may never be proven. There were too > >>many secrets. Too much shame placed. Too much running from the truth. > >>Crystal Murphy > >>Lincoln Co. NC Descendant > >>Wandering around in search of lost Ancestors > >> > > > > > > > >==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== > >==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== > >Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC > >For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm > >Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page > > > > > > ==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== > ==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== > Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC > For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm > Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page >

Regarding Jeffrey's suggestion about looking on the Indian Rolls. It is a good suggestion, and I just wanted to add that many of those rolls are on line, just use your search engine. Jeffrey, sorry about that earlier, I just hit reply and did not pay enough attention. Susan

I agree with your logic about parentage. But if the gene is on the Y chromosome you can only test for father to son transmission, as the Y chromosome is what determies that a baby will be a male, and is only in males. > > From: Agnes <[email protected]> > Date: 2004/12/15 Wed AM 10:39:03 EST > To: [email protected] > Subject: [NCLINCOLN] Re: NCLINCOL-D Digest V04 #199 > > How is it that this test can be accurate and apply only to the males - I > realize I have little or no knowledge about how DNA testing results are > judged but it seems a bit ridiculous to pursue this down through the males > when no matter what the surname no one can be absolutely sure the person he > knows as a male parent is actually the one who impregnated the mother. > It does not seem possible to me for a strictly male line to be always pure. > > The surname has nothing to do with it either, I have family members who > carry the surname but were adopted, we know that but not everyone does. We > have others who use the surname of the mother because they were born > out-of-wedlock but who's bloodline information is just as reliable as if > they were carrying the surname of the biological father. > > I do know that orthodox Jews do not use the bloodline of the male parent to > trace their lineage, but instead use the bloodline of the mother. One has > only to look at the lineage of Mary's son Jesus in the Bible to see that > line is traced through her, not through any male parent, the possibility > that the male parent is not the biological father is accepted as fact. > > Please refrain from starting a big controversy here, I am just trying to > understand the reasoning. > > Agnes C. > > > > On 12/15/04 1:04 AM, "[email protected]" > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > From: "Mary Harbinson" <[email protected]> > > Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:46:04 -0800 > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Only Males > > > > This can only be done by a Male in the family. It is said they tried to keep > > this gene pure and were very selective as to whom they married. I am just > > getting more info on this myself. I was not expecting to find this at all. > > > > ______________________________ > > > ==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== > ==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== > Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC > For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm > Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page > >

I am one of the "silent" members but enjoy all the postings - My families hail primarily from Lincoln and Macon counties here in NC The reason they trace the male line has to do with genetics. As simply as I can say, Men are XY and Women are XX. When a child is born, they inherit one from each parent. From the Mother, this is always an X, as women are XX. If the child inherits an X from the Father, the child is female. If the child inherits a Y, which only the Father has, the child is born male. So, in male children, this paternal line can be traced with a certainty that is not available with females. Also as to the "Indian Capture" line the first thing I noticed is that the dates this seem to occur are almost identical to the forcible removal of the Cherokee from NC on "The Trail of Tears". The Cherokee were a very civilized tribe with their own newspapers and adopted quite well to the new culture of the whites and many are of mixed blood. I know they were very prominent in western NC, but uncertain if the removal was affected as far east as Lincoln County. My guess is this "capture" may have been exaggerated up the line somewhere and that if they had Cherokee blood were removed from this area at that time. I would recommend the person go to Cherokee, NC to visit the eastern band and also the western band in Oklahoma and can review the tribal roles to look for possible clues. Sincerely, Jeffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Agnes" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 10:39 AM Subject: [NCLINCOLN] Re: NCLINCOL-D Digest V04 #199 > How is it that this test can be accurate and apply only to the males - I > realize I have little or no knowledge about how DNA testing results are > judged but it seems a bit ridiculous to pursue this down through the males > when no matter what the surname no one can be absolutely sure the person he > knows as a male parent is actually the one who impregnated the mother. > It does not seem possible to me for a strictly male line to be always pure. > > The surname has nothing to do with it either, I have family members who > carry the surname but were adopted, we know that but not everyone does. We > have others who use the surname of the mother because they were born > out-of-wedlock but who's bloodline information is just as reliable as if > they were carrying the surname of the biological father. > > I do know that orthodox Jews do not use the bloodline of the male parent to > trace their lineage, but instead use the bloodline of the mother. One has > only to look at the lineage of Mary's son Jesus in the Bible to see that > line is traced through her, not through any male parent, the possibility > that the male parent is not the biological father is accepted as fact. > > Please refrain from starting a big controversy here, I am just trying to > understand the reasoning. > > Agnes C. > > > > On 12/15/04 1:04 AM, "[email protected]" > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > From: "Mary Harbinson" <[email protected]> > > Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:46:04 -0800 > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Only Males > > > > This can only be done by a Male in the family. It is said they tried to keep > > this gene pure and were very selective as to whom they married. I am just > > getting more info on this myself. I was not expecting to find this at all. > > > > ______________________________ > > > ==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== > ==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== > Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC > For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm > Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page > >

I will be the first one to omit I know very little about this so far the DNA on this line is all a match, for the Ky, Tn, Va, Pa, and Burke county line. The Catawba County line is different, but the mother listed the father to be a certain person from this Surname , and it is very obvious this was not the father of this child. But that father has been tested and matches the other lines above. These test done by Family Tree is only determining a Surname connection if they are all known to be off the same Surname. With cases like mine it has proven that he was not who he thought he was. He carrys this DYS19b which the other know people of this surname do not carry.

How is it that this test can be accurate and apply only to the males - I realize I have little or no knowledge about how DNA testing results are judged but it seems a bit ridiculous to pursue this down through the males when no matter what the surname no one can be absolutely sure the person he knows as a male parent is actually the one who impregnated the mother. It does not seem possible to me for a strictly male line to be always pure. The surname has nothing to do with it either, I have family members who carry the surname but were adopted, we know that but not everyone does. We have others who use the surname of the mother because they were born out-of-wedlock but who's bloodline information is just as reliable as if they were carrying the surname of the biological father. I do know that orthodox Jews do not use the bloodline of the male parent to trace their lineage, but instead use the bloodline of the mother. One has only to look at the lineage of Mary's son Jesus in the Bible to see that line is traced through her, not through any male parent, the possibility that the male parent is not the biological father is accepted as fact. Please refrain from starting a big controversy here, I am just trying to understand the reasoning. Agnes C. On 12/15/04 1:04 AM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: > From: "Mary Harbinson" <[email protected]> > Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:46:04 -0800 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Only Males > > This can only be done by a Male in the family. It is said they tried to keep > this gene pure and were very selective as to whom they married. I am just > getting more info on this myself. I was not expecting to find this at all. > > ______________________________

Calling for all Male Costners descending from the Lincoln/Gaston/etc. counties of NC: Following the DNA thread currently running through the Lincoln Co, NC list, I thought that I'd put in a plea for all Male Costners that are descendents of George Adam Costner of Dallas, Gaston/Lincoln Co, NC. I descend from George Adam's son Thomas Costner who fought in the Rev War. Thomas's son, Henry Costner/Cosner, my line moved to TN and on to IN dropping the "T". We are early into this DNA collection and have only a few people tested so far, myself included with the 37 marker test. We need more contributors. The more DNA submitters the more potential for connections. If you are a male and carry the Costner surname, you should look into this project. This Costner/Cosner/KAstner DNA project is managed by Sandy, a Cosner, and manager of the [email protected] list. I have included her email at the end of my email from last April that she sent explaining the DNA project at that time. DNA Project Homepage: http://www.familytreedna.com Costner/Cosner/Kastner DNA project webpage: http://www.familytreedna.com/surname_join.asp?code=P90710&special=true Good luck in your genealogical pursuits. Mike Cosner, VA -----Original Message----- From: Sandy [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 11:07 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [KASTNER] Family DNA Project Hi Everyone, The DNA Surname project is finally set up. Our own web-site is not up and running yet but you can be still join now. If you go to www.familytreedna.com and look under the Cosner Family Project, you will be able to request to join there. I've requested that Kastner be added to the project name so it will be easier to find. This project will encompass all of the various spellings of Kastner such as Cosner, Costner, Castner, Casner and others. Some of objectives we have are: Identify others who are related Prove or disprove theories regarding ancestors Solve brick walls in your research Determine a location for further research Validate existing research The Y chromosome is passed from father to son unchanged, except for a mutation about every 500 generations. Testing the Y chromosome will provide you with a genetic finger print consisting of 12 or 25 numbers. By comparing this finger print to others with your surname, you can determine if they are related. This means that in order for a person to be tested, it must a male of direct lineage to the name. Family Tree DNA recommends establishing the Project with the 12 marker Y chromosome test. 12 markers are sufficient to determine whether or not two people are related. In addition, the 12 marker Project Price of $99 is more affordable for participants, enabling you to recruit more participants. The value of the 25 marker test occurs when two participants are related based on the 12 marker test. When participants match in the 12 marker test, the test can be upgraded to 25 markers for a small additional fee of $90. The objective of the upgrade to the 25 marker test is to reduce the time frame of the common ancestor between the matching participants. The common ancestor also referred to as the Most Recent Common Ancestor, or MRCA. Typically, participants are very interested in upgrading their 12 marker test to 25 markers when a match occurs. Two individuals are considered related for the 12 marker test if they match 12/12, 11/12, and sometimes with 10/12. In the first two situations, an upgrade to the 25 marker test is recommended. I'm really excited about getting this project off the ground. One test has been ordered already. For this to work, we must have participants. Our web site will maintain results of those who ordered the tests as long as they have given permission. I know that I would love to find out what the tie is to many of the families out there. If you have questions, please contact me. If you are concerned about security and privacy, please check out http://www.familytreedna.com/privacy.html Sandy Norton List Owner ==== KASTNER Mailing List ====

Hello, since the subject has been brought up, I am the project admistrator for the LOWERY and related spellings DNA project. If there is a male LOWERY out there and is interested in joining, I would love to have you. My family like a lot of ours came through NC. Email me privately if you are interested. THanks

I do. My teeth are small and odd shaped, but straight for the most part. I have those bumps/ridges in the upper back of my four front teeth.

Isn't there some tests females can participate in? Not speaking as having fact, but I do believe females can do DNA for Native bloodlines. Crystal Murphy

Thank you.

I am looking to do some DNA Testing this coming Spring. Does gender matter with the specific test you are speaking of? Many thanks, Crystal Murphy

It's the Y-Chromosome they're after. Not the X. The DNA testing traces paternal lineages (i.e. father to son to grandson, etc.) by looking at markers on the Y-Chromosome that mutate very slowly over many generations. If two individuals share a surname and the large majority of markers, there is a strong likelihood that they descend from a common ancestor. jeff -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 2:57 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NCLINCOLN] DNA information Isn't there some tests females can participate in? Not speaking as having fact, but I do believe females can do DNA for Native bloodlines. Crystal Murphy ==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== ==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page

It is said they tried to keep this gene pure and were very selective as to whom they married. Well... That proves my wife didn't have the gene!

One of the most recent History Channel presentations was on a subject near and dear to the hearts of researchers in this area: the Melungeon http://www.melungeon.org/?BISKIT=%3C$::BISKIT%3E&CONTEXT=cat&cat=10023 as studied in DNA. Abe Lincoln is said to be a Melungeon. They quote: WEIRD U.S. continues with an investigation into the Melungeons. In 1673, when the "first" settlers arrived in Appalachia, they discovered an entire group of people already living there. These people -- the Melungeons -- were of unknown ancestry. They had physical traits common to Northern Europeans, Africans, and Native Americans, as well as unique physical characteristics like "shovel teeth" and a prominent bump at the back of the skull. Yet, where had they come from? Were they descendants of early sailors? Were they a lost colony that no one knew about? Today, many people in the south think of Melungeons as little more than mythical trolls who lived in the mountains. Yet, the Melungeons were real and their ancestors are alive and well. The WEIRD U.S. team undertakes the mission of figuring out who these people really were utilizing modern DNA testing procedures. [see www.historychannel.com for listings]. --Derick At 02:25 PM 12/14/2004, [email protected] wrote: >Right on, Crystal. You've just described the process of genealogical >research whether we are looking for Indian, Polish, Italian, or >fill-in-the-blank ancestors. Most of us on this List are wandering around >out there with you! > >The original inquiry produced some interesting exchanges, and I've enjoyed >the messages. > >Kathy Sullivan > >>In a message dated 12/14/2004 11:07:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, >>[email protected] writes: >> >>Almost any family lore that includes Indian relationships or experiences >>requires cautious (skeptical) examination. >> >>Kathy Sullivan >>********************************************* >> >>My family, both sides, have told stories over the years of our Indian >>heritage. I do believe there is Indian blood, but do I believe it exactly >>as it has been carried? No. I believe you have to look under stones not >>yet turned over. I believe you have to definitely read between the lines. >>Go places no one else has gone. All of this is necessary in tracking >>down Indian Ancestors. Even then, there is a strong possibility that what >>you know in your heart to be true, may never be proven. There were too >>many secrets. Too much shame placed. Too much running from the truth. >>Crystal Murphy >>Lincoln Co. NC Descendant >>Wandering around in search of lost Ancestors >> > > > >==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== >==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== >Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC >For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm >Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page >

Right on, Crystal. You've just described the process of genealogical research whether we are looking for Indian, Polish, Italian, or fill-in-the-blank ancestors. Most of us on this List are wandering around out there with you! The original inquiry produced some interesting exchanges, and I've enjoyed the messages. Kathy Sullivan >In a message dated 12/14/2004 11:07:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, >[email protected] writes: > >Almost any family lore that includes Indian relationships or experiences requires cautious (skeptical) examination. > >Kathy Sullivan >********************************************* > > >My family, both sides, have told stories over the years of our Indian heritage. I do believe there is Indian blood, but do I believe it exactly as it has been carried? No. I believe you have to look under stones not yet turned over. I believe you have to definitely read between the lines. Go places no one else has gone. All of this is necessary in tracking down Indian Ancestors. Even then, there is a strong possibility that what you know in your heart to be true, may never be proven. There were too many secrets. Too much shame placed. Too much running from the truth. > >Crystal Murphy >Lincoln Co. NC Descendant >Wandering around in search of lost Ancestors > >

P. S. My husband doesn't have any weird teeth or bumps on his head either.

1) You must be male. 2) You must carry the surname of whatever your line is (or one of its variations). 3) The order form is online. 4. You receive the test kit in the mail, and you return it by mail. 5) Your DNA is collected by swabbing the inside of your mouth with a small toothbrush-like swab which you return to the lab. It's as easy as brushing your teeth. 6 The results will tell you, and the other participants, if you share a common ancestor. We would know if they were related. ------------------------------------------------------- There are many web sites. The largest testing lab is Family Tree DNA http://www.familytreedna.com/ and there are over 900 surname groups linked to them. You may want to go to that website to read a more detailed description. My husband is the only one carrying this gene out of 900 families so far in America

This waaaayy out on a limb but I'll throw it out anyway. Awhile back a distant relative asked if my grandmother's family had Native American relatives. I said I doubted it because most of us are fair skinned, freckled and have either brown, dark brown or red hair and then forgot about it until now. My grandmother's maiden name was Piercy and if you let your imagination run wild Pierce could be pronounced Pierc E. She also had long black or very dark brown hair. Now her grandfather came from either Caldwell or Burke counties. Her mother was a Mauney (various spellings apply). Grandma was born in 1899 the last of her parent's children. No one ever mentioned anything about Native Americans but given the generation they wouldn't have. Well, enough on this goose chase. Cynthia Bolick Gilbert