This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/iVB.2ACI/2171.1.3 Message Board Post: The interest I have in Thomas Prim is that my great great grandparents are James Prim and Margaret Tanner. The couple is buried at Trinity Methodist Church in Mecklenburg County, NC. I have no dates for them but their daughter, Mary Roxanna Prim was born 08 Jul 1847. I was wondering if Thomas and James might be related considering the same last name in an area where few people lived and at the same general time in history.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/iVB.2ACI/2156.1.3.1.1 Message Board Post: I am very interested in Eve's family as she is buried in the same cemetery plot as my grandfather at Pleasant Grove United Methodist Church in Lincoln County, NC outside Lincolnton. On this plot are Eve, Jonas Payseur and Harriet Smith (Eve daughter and my great grandmother) William Theodore Payseur, my grandfather, his twin brother accidently killed in a train accident and a couple illegially buried there.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/iVB.2ACI/857.3.1.1 Message Board Post: Would love to share information. e-mail address: [email protected]

Who were Conrad Weaver's parents?? Lynn Wesson Chapel Hill, NC > > From: [email protected] > Date: 2004/12/30 Thu AM 10:30:08 EST > To: [email protected] > Subject: [NCLINCOLN] Re: Conrad, Susan, and Mary WEAVER > > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > Classification: Query > > Message Board URL: > > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/iVB.2ACI/857.3 > > Message Board Post: > > Conrad Weaver and his wife Elizabeth Jacobs were my great great great grandparents. Their daughter Eve Weaver Smith was my great great grandmother. Conrad Weaver later married Nancy Wesson. Please advise if I can assist you in your research. > > > ==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== > ==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== > Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC > For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm > Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page > > From the desk of Lynn Wesson This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/iVB.2ACI/2171.1.2 Message Board Post: Would like to share information on several of your entries, primarily Conrad Weaver, his wife Elizabeth Jacobs and their daughter and son-in-law Cuddius Smith.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/iVB.2ACI/2156.1.3 Message Board Post: I am the great great grandson of Eve and Cuddius Smith thru their daughter Harriet Weaver wife of Jonas Payseur. Their son was William Theodore, who married Martha Elizabeth Hovis and their daughter was Frances Harriet Payseur, my mother who is 94. I would appreciate any information you might have on Eve and Cuddius Smith.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/iVB.2ACI/857.3 Message Board Post: Conrad Weaver and his wife Elizabeth Jacobs were my great great great grandparents. Their daughter Eve Weaver Smith was my great great grandmother. Conrad Weaver later married Nancy Wesson. Please advise if I can assist you in your research.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/iVB.2ACI/2396 Message Board Post: I am tracing my family tree. I would like any information you might have on any of the people listed here as well as where they may have lived. John McCarver was born in Orange County North Carolina in 1767 he died in Lincoln County North Carolina in 1830 . Their may still be family their. Please take a look and if any of the names tie in with yours please contact me. Thank You 1 John McCarver 1767 - 1830 . +Jenny Penner ........ 2 James McCarver ........ 2 Martha McCarver ........ 2 Alezander McCarver ........ 2 Ephriam McCarver ........ 2 Joseph McCarver *2nd Wife of John McCarver: . +Mary Hamilton ........ 2 Alexander McCarver ........ 2 Ephraim McCarver ........ 2 George McCarver ........ 2 James McCarver ............ +Julia ........ 2 John M McCarver ........ 2 Joseph McCarver ........ 2 Martha McCarver ........ 2 William H McCarver 1804 - 1849 ............ +Anna B Spencer - 1868 ................... 3 John Stanhope McCarver 1820 - ....................... +Elizabeth Ann Clark ................... 3 George Jefferson McCarver 1824 - ....................... +Mary Ann Lee .............................. 4 Betty McCarver .............................. 4 Harvery McCarver .............................. 4 John McCarver .............................. 4 Mary McCarver .............................. 4 William McCarver .............................. 4 Thomas Jefferson McCarver 1858 - 1934 .................................. +Lydia Ann Crabb 1863 - 1944 .......................................... 5 William Arther McCarver 1889 - 1972 .............................................. +Loucia Mae Burns 1892 - 1987 ..................................................... 6 Hazel Pauline Carver 1919 - ......................................................... +Rolan Guy Turmipal ..................................................... 6 Jaunita Faye McCarver 1921 - ......................................................... +Buddy Smith ..................................................... *2nd Husband of Jaunita Faye McCarver: ......................................................... +Hollis Allen ..................................................... 6 Annie Lee McCarver 1923 - ......................................................... +Talmodge Davis ..................................................... 6 Aubrey Travis McCarver 1926 - ......................................................... +Gwen Freeman ..................................................... 6 Howard Franklin McCarver 1928 - 1988 ......................................................... +Mildred Nizaclke ..................................................... 6 Vera Audream Carver 1931 - 1953 .......................................... 5 Edna Lee McCarver 1891 - 1928 .......................................... 5 George Ernest McCarver 1893 - 1981 .......................................... 5 John Bell McCarver 1896 - 1987 .............................................. +Emma Yoakum - 1968 .......................................... 5 Thomas Edgar McCarver 1900 - 1961 .............................................. +Susie Mae Ward 1904 - 1980 ..................................................... 6 Gerald Carneiloush Mccarver 1924 - 1994 ......................................................... +Doris Bea Collinsworth 1924 - ..................................................... *2nd Wife of Gerald Carneiloush Mccarver: ......................................................... +Sharon E Jeske 1953 - ..................................................... 6 Edna Arlene Mccarver 1929 - 2000 ......................................................... +Bruno Stanley Grucholski .......................................... 5 Myrtle Annie McCarver 1902 - 1998 .......................................... 5 Maggie Elizabeth McCarver 1905 - 1992 .............................. 4 Sarah Isabel McCarver 1863 - 1940 .................................. +William Marshal Arney 1856 - 1925 .......................................... 5 Mary Lou Arney 1883 - .............................................. +R J Dillon .......................................... 5 Viola Arney 1885 - .............................................. +Walter Shelton .......................................... 5 Tom Arney 1887 - .............................................. +Ora Watson ..................................................... 6 Irene Arney ......................................................... +? McBrayer ..................................................... 6 Martha Bell Arney 1912 - 1978 ......................................................... +William Thomas Kemp ..................................................... 6 Thomas (Rev) Earl Arney ..................................................... 6 Travis Arney ..................................................... 6 Mary Arney ......................................................... +Frank Craig .......................................... 5 Lee (Henry) Arney 1889 - 1973 .............................................. +Lizzie Camp 1913 - .......................................... 5 William Luther Arney 1891 - 1984 .............................................. +Vera McCoy 1911 - ..................................................... 6 Frank Arney ..................................................... 6 Juanita Arney ......................................................... +John (Rev) Birkelbauch ..................................................... 6 Mary Agnes Arney ..................................................... 6 James M Arney ..................................................... 6 Mevia Arney ..................................................... 6 Roy Arney .......................................... 5 John Arney 1893 - .............................................. +Ruth Camp .......................................... *2nd Wife of John Arney: .............................................. +Lilie Bohn .......................................... 5 Mack Arney 1895 - .............................................. +Alma Hartnett 1895 - ..................................................... 6 William "Billy" Arney ..................................................... 6 Augusta "Gussie" Arney .......................................... 5 Annie Arney 1900 - .............................................. +Albert Henley .......................................... 5 Myrtle Arney 1902 - 1989 .............................................. +Walter Leamons - 1974 .......................................... 5 Eunice Arney 1904 - 1935 .............................. 4 Luther H McCarver 1868 - .................................. +Mary 1895 - .......................................... 5 Harry McCarver 1918 - .......................................... 5 Herbert McCarver 1923 - .......................................... 5 Corine McCarver 1928 - .............................. *2nd Wife of Luther H McCarver: .................................. +? .......................................... 5 Olern McCarver 1914 - ................... 3 Mary Ann McCarver 1825 - ....................... +Joseph B Wynns - 1867 ................... *2nd Husband of Mary Ann McCarver: ....................... +Col. J N Coffey ................... 3 Araminta Isabelle McCarver 1830 - ....................... +John William Owens ................... 3 Eliza Jane McCarver 1833 - ....................... +Wesley Franklin ................... 3 Christopher Columbus McCarver 1834 - ................... 3 William Pitt McCarver 1837 - 1862 ................... 3 Mahala Katherine McCarver 1841 - ....................... +Stephen Finley Bond

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/iVB.2ACI/512.1006 Message Board Post: Judy, I have the Lincoln County Heritage Book 1997. There is an article on Nicholas Shrum from Lincoln County, NC. I descend from Anthony Hauss whom Nicholas' daughter Maria married. If you would like the information just let me know. Donna

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/iVB.2ACI/512.1005 Message Board Post: I am trying to track down my grandmother side of Cothrons and I see your last name is Cothron. Is that your married name? Do you have an info on Cothron's Jean "Magar" Provence

I found and old post from Lin Hillis but it is no longer an active email. They were looking for James Pitillo who married Susan Ward in 1801 Lincoln Co. Margaret Ikerd daughter of George Ikerd who had an Illegitimate child with James Pitillo, Jacob Scronce who married Susan Summey and Emoline Schronce who married Jessie Potillo born 1826 son of James and Margaret Ikerd. If you are still working on any of these lines please contact me. I am also looking for James Pitillo I have reason to believe he could be the father of another child of Margaret Ikerd. Please any help at all on this Pitillo/Petillo lines is most appreciated. Thanks

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/iVB.2ACI/2175.1.1.1 Message Board Post: The Lincoln Co. NC estate file of George Kistler, located at the NC Archives, Raleigh, has a document containing the signature of Paul Kistler, son of George. This signature could be compared with the signature on the marriage bond of Paul Kistler and Ann Smith (12 July 1810) for proof. The old Emmanuel Lutheran Cem., Lincolnton, NC has a tombstone for Paul Kistler, died 19 July 1848 age 66 years, born Pennsylvania. His wife Ann Kistler is also buried in the same cemetery. Tombstone does not give date of death, but gives her age at death as 78 years. She is on the 1870 Lincoln census age 77. Ann M. Dellinger

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Kistler, Smith Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/iVB.2ACI/2175.1.1 Message Board Post: Could the child Paul Kistler that married Ann Smith, Jul. 1810, be the same?

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/iVB.2ACI/2395 Message Board Post: A CHRISTMAS TREASURE No where will you find a Christmas gift as priceless as The Cleveland County Heritage Book, Volume II! Only the gift of love exceeds this book and that is exactly what you will be sharing with The Cleveland County Heritage Book, Volume II. The Cleveland County Heritage Book, Volume II is a storehouse of family heirloom pictures and nostalgic reading for everybody with interest in our county. You will find family stories which share history, traditions and love for family, friends and their community in the 755 family articles included in these priceless 604 pages. Other highlights of the hardback book include sections on communities, organizations, businesses, military and historical landmarks. Compiled by a group of dedicated local citizens, who recognized the need to record and preserve the rich heritage of Cleveland County, this is a book for the people of Cleveland County, about the people of Cleveland County. It's a keepsake that you shouldn't miss. Get your family a copy will supply lasts! For your convenience in doing your Christmas shopping, copies of The Cleveland County Heritage Book, Volume II are available Monday through Friday, 8 to 5, at the Cleveland County Manager's Office located at 311 East Marion Street in the Administration Building. Broad River Genealogical Society will also be able to assist you with purchasing a copy of The Cleveland County Heritage Book, Volume II at their Archives located at 1145 County Home Road on Saturday, December the 18th from 9 am til 1 pm, or on Monday, the 20th from Noon until 5 pm or on Tuesday, the 21st from 6 to 8 pm. Total price of the Heritage Book is $66.88, which includes sales tax. For your convenience, books can also be shipped for an additional $7.00. Order forms are available at the Manager's Office or at the Broad River Genealogical Society's Archives at 1145 County Home Road or on-line at www.rootsweb.com/~NCBRGS/CHindex.htm.

I have never seen reference to Melungeons in this area. I have never seen reference to Melungeons in the Piedmont. They were mostly located in the mountains of Virginia, Tennessee, West Virginia, and North Carolina. Kennedy in his book suggested that the Lumbees were also a Melungeon group. I felt that his analysis was very weak in this aspect of his book. I suspect these Indians are primarily of mixed race but am not convinced that they could be related to the Melungeons. I would rather believe that they were related to the Lost Colony as some have suggested. Robert Carpenter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn E.Wesson" <[email protected]> To: "'Robert and Sue Carpenter'" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 7:17 AM Subject: RE: [NCLINCOLN] Indian capture>>>> Melungeons > I am not sure this is a question that can be answered here, but does anyone > on the list know if there were Melungeons reported to be as far east as > Lincoln Co. in the 1820s? > Thanks, > Lynn Wesson > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert and Sue Carpenter [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 10:25 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Fw: [NCLINCOLN] Indian capture>>>> Melungeons > > > Dear folks, > > I have been reading some of your writings over the last few nights but have > not had time to make comments. I have now found some time. > > First, the issue of an Indian capture in the 1830's or so. This would be > highly unlikely in the Gaston-Lincoln-Catawba County area. This is the > period when the Cherokees were removed west. Any contact with Indians would > have been in western NC. The Cherokee posed a serious threat to white > settlers until the American Revolution. While the major Cherokee War which > occurred in 1760-61 was cited here, the Cherokees did pose a threat upon the > frontier in 1775-76. But the frontier at this time was not Lincoln and > Catawba County but rather present Burke and McDowell Counties. The Indians > raided white settlements at Old Fort and at Pleasant Gardens at that time > and General Griffith Rutherford took a 1000 man militia force over the > mountains. His soldiers did not fight many Indians, most of whom had fled. > But rather they simply burned villages and crops. Their destruction in the > Cherokee Expedition of 1776 left the Cherokee nation much weaker. But near > the end of the Revolution in 1781 and 82 rumours of Indian activity > resurfaced upon this western frontier. Again local militia officers from > our area raised units and marched westward destroying towns, crops, and > women and children. The Cherokees never again were seen as a serious threat > to the white settlers. But whites continued to trade with them, to marry > them, and to come into contact with them. > > Melungeons -- what an interesting topic. This unusual group of mixed race > people from the mountains of Appalachia has been the source of much > confusion. I have read Brent Kennedy's book and find the research > fascinating. Unfortunately without DNA evidence or archaeological evidence > I suspect that the truth may remain unconfirmed. Little written information > about these people exist and most of it was written by the Melungeon's > adversaries. The suggestion that they may descend from Portuguese and > Spanish explorers who lived in western NC with Juan Pardo is possible but > also questionable. Too little evidence yet exists to prove their unique > existence except as a mixed race people of the Appalachian Mountians. Of > course that makes DNA testing suspect. > > DNA testing is another tool for genealogists. I have tested my DNA at the > request of a Carpenter descendant from California. He traced his line to > Georgia, to a John T. Carpenter who was born in NC. He could not trace any > further back. He suspected that he was descended from a Lincoln County > Carpenter but could only find circumstancial evidence. He talked me into > having my DNA tested. If we matched we could surmise that he was related in > the manner he suspected. We did in fact match with only one marker off. We > have since concluded that he belongs to our Carpenter family. We are > encouraging other Carpenters from this area to have their DNA tested so that > we might prove that all the descendants of the earliest Carpenter/Zimmermans > are closely related. So far three of us have matched. We need, like Mr. > Cosner, more people to be tested. I encourage anyone who is interested to > get tested. > > Our test is the Y chromosone test which applies to males only. There is a X > test for females. I am not as familiar with that test except that it is > done. > > I have enjoyed all the discussions. > > Robert Carpenter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Derick Hartshorn" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 2:41 PM > Subject: Re: [NCLINCOLN] Indian capture>>>> Melungeons > > > > One of the most recent History Channel presentations was on a subject near > > and dear to the hearts of researchers in this area: > > the Melungeon > > http://www.melungeon.org/?BISKIT=%3C$::BISKIT%3E&CONTEXT=cat&cat=10023 as > > studied in DNA. > > Abe Lincoln is said to be a Melungeon. They quote: > > > > WEIRD U.S. continues with an investigation into the Melungeons. In 1673, > > when the "first" settlers arrived in Appalachia, they discovered an entire > > group of people already living there. These people -- the Melungeons -- > > were of unknown ancestry. They had physical traits common to Northern > > Europeans, Africans, and Native Americans, as well as unique physical > > characteristics like "shovel teeth" and a prominent bump at the back of > the > > skull. Yet, where had they come from? Were they descendants of early > > sailors? Were they a lost colony that no one knew about? Today, many > people > > in the south think of Melungeons as little more than mythical trolls who > > lived in the mountains. Yet, the Melungeons were real and their ancestors > > are alive and well. The WEIRD U.S. team undertakes the mission of figuring > > out who these people really were utilizing modern DNA testing procedures. > > [see www.historychannel.com for listings]. > > > > --Derick > > > > > > > > At 02:25 PM 12/14/2004, [email protected] wrote: > > >Right on, Crystal. You've just described the process of genealogical > > >research whether we are looking for Indian, Polish, Italian, or > > >fill-in-the-blank ancestors. Most of us on this List are wandering around > > >out there with you! > > > > > >The original inquiry produced some interesting exchanges, and I've > enjoyed > > >the messages. > > > > > >Kathy Sullivan > > > > > >>In a message dated 12/14/2004 11:07:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > >>[email protected] writes: > > >> > > >>Almost any family lore that includes Indian relationships or experiences > > >>requires cautious (skeptical) examination. > > >> > > >>Kathy Sullivan > > >>********************************************* > > >> > > >>My family, both sides, have told stories over the years of our Indian > > >>heritage. I do believe there is Indian blood, but do I believe it > exactly > > >>as it has been carried? No. I believe you have to look under stones not > > >>yet turned over. I believe you have to definitely read between the > lines. > > >>Go places no one else has gone. All of this is necessary in tracking > > >>down Indian Ancestors. Even then, there is a strong possibility that > what > > >>you know in your heart to be true, may never be proven. There were too > > >>many secrets. Too much shame placed. Too much running from the truth. > > >>Crystal Murphy > > >>Lincoln Co. NC Descendant > > >>Wandering around in search of lost Ancestors > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== > > >==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== > > >Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC > > >For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm > > >Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page > > > > > > > > > > > ==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== > > ==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== > > Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC > > For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm > > Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page > > > > > ==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== > ==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== > Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC > For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm > Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page > >

Hello, I have been reading all the emails regarding the Melungeons and it intrigued me. I decided to read some information online and the stories about these people are quite interesting. Thanks for all the insight, Cindy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Harbinson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [NCLINCOLN] Indian capture>>>> Melungeons > My husband is carrying this DYS19b Y Cromozone I have no idea now who his > gggrandfather really was but he was born in Lincoln County in 1823 to mother > Margaret Ikerd and now since he does not match who the father was suspose to > be, Lord knows, but this gene is carried by the Melungeons and also High > Priestly Jews. So Someone was in that area in 1823. And out of 900 families > tested for DNA, he is the only one they have ever found. So what are our > possibilites here also? > Mary > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lynn E.Wesson" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 4:17 AM > Subject: RE: [NCLINCOLN] Indian capture>>>> Melungeons > > > > I am not sure this is a question that can be answered here, but does > anyone > > on the list know if there were Melungeons reported to be as far east as > > Lincoln Co. in the 1820s? > > Thanks, > > Lynn Wesson > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robert and Sue Carpenter [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 10:25 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Fw: [NCLINCOLN] Indian capture>>>> Melungeons > > > > > > Dear folks, > > > > I have been reading some of your writings over the last few nights but > have > > not had time to make comments. I have now found some time. > > > > First, the issue of an Indian capture in the 1830's or so. This would be > > highly unlikely in the Gaston-Lincoln-Catawba County area. This is the > > period when the Cherokees were removed west. Any contact with Indians > would > > have been in western NC. The Cherokee posed a serious threat to white > > settlers until the American Revolution. While the major Cherokee War > which > > occurred in 1760-61 was cited here, the Cherokees did pose a threat upon > the > > frontier in 1775-76. But the frontier at this time was not Lincoln and > > Catawba County but rather present Burke and McDowell Counties. The > Indians > > raided white settlements at Old Fort and at Pleasant Gardens at that time > > and General Griffith Rutherford took a 1000 man militia force over the > > mountains. His soldiers did not fight many Indians, most of whom had > fled. > > But rather they simply burned villages and crops. Their destruction in > the > > Cherokee Expedition of 1776 left the Cherokee nation much weaker. But > near > > the end of the Revolution in 1781 and 82 rumours of Indian activity > > resurfaced upon this western frontier. Again local militia officers from > > our area raised units and marched westward destroying towns, crops, and > > women and children. The Cherokees never again were seen as a serious > threat > > to the white settlers. But whites continued to trade with them, to marry > > them, and to come into contact with them. > > > > Melungeons -- what an interesting topic. This unusual group of mixed race > > people from the mountains of Appalachia has been the source of much > > confusion. I have read Brent Kennedy's book and find the research > > fascinating. Unfortunately without DNA evidence or archaeological > evidence > > I suspect that the truth may remain unconfirmed. Little written > information > > about these people exist and most of it was written by the Melungeon's > > adversaries. The suggestion that they may descend from Portuguese and > > Spanish explorers who lived in western NC with Juan Pardo is possible but > > also questionable. Too little evidence yet exists to prove their unique > > existence except as a mixed race people of the Appalachian Mountians. Of > > course that makes DNA testing suspect. > > > > DNA testing is another tool for genealogists. I have tested my DNA at the > > request of a Carpenter descendant from California. He traced his line to > > Georgia, to a John T. Carpenter who was born in NC. He could not trace > any > > further back. He suspected that he was descended from a Lincoln County > > Carpenter but could only find circumstancial evidence. He talked me into > > having my DNA tested. If we matched we could surmise that he was related > in > > the manner he suspected. We did in fact match with only one marker off. > We > > have since concluded that he belongs to our Carpenter family. We are > > encouraging other Carpenters from this area to have their DNA tested so > that > > we might prove that all the descendants of the earliest > Carpenter/Zimmermans > > are closely related. So far three of us have matched. We need, like Mr. > > Cosner, more people to be tested. I encourage anyone who is interested to > > get tested. > > > > Our test is the Y chromosone test which applies to males only. There is a > X > > test for females. I am not as familiar with that test except that it is > > done. > > > > I have enjoyed all the discussions. > > > > Robert Carpenter > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Derick Hartshorn" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 2:41 PM > > Subject: Re: [NCLINCOLN] Indian capture>>>> Melungeons > > > > > > > One of the most recent History Channel presentations was on a subject > near > > > and dear to the hearts of researchers in this area: > > > the Melungeon > > > http://www.melungeon.org/?BISKIT=%3C$::BISKIT%3E&CONTEXT=cat&cat=10023 > as > > > studied in DNA. > > > Abe Lincoln is said to be a Melungeon. They quote: > > > > > > WEIRD U.S. continues with an investigation into the Melungeons. In 1673, > > > when the "first" settlers arrived in Appalachia, they discovered an > entire > > > group of people already living there. These people -- the Melungeons -- > > > were of unknown ancestry. They had physical traits common to Northern > > > Europeans, Africans, and Native Americans, as well as unique physical > > > characteristics like "shovel teeth" and a prominent bump at the back of > > the > > > skull. Yet, where had they come from? Were they descendants of early > > > sailors? Were they a lost colony that no one knew about? Today, many > > people > > > in the south think of Melungeons as little more than mythical trolls who > > > lived in the mountains. Yet, the Melungeons were real and their > ancestors > > > are alive and well. The WEIRD U.S. team undertakes the mission of > figuring > > > out who these people really were utilizing modern DNA testing > procedures. > > > [see www.historychannel.com for listings]. > > > > > > --Derick > > > > > > > > > > > > At 02:25 PM 12/14/2004, [email protected] wrote: > > > >Right on, Crystal. You've just described the process of genealogical > > > >research whether we are looking for Indian, Polish, Italian, or > > > >fill-in-the-blank ancestors. Most of us on this List are wandering > around > > > >out there with you! > > > > > > > >The original inquiry produced some interesting exchanges, and I've > > enjoyed > > > >the messages. > > > > > > > >Kathy Sullivan > > > > > > > >>In a message dated 12/14/2004 11:07:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > > >>[email protected] writes: > > > >> > > > >>Almost any family lore that includes Indian relationships or > experiences > > > >>requires cautious (skeptical) examination. > > > >> > > > >>Kathy Sullivan > > > >>********************************************* > > > >> > > > >>My family, both sides, have told stories over the years of our Indian > > > >>heritage. I do believe there is Indian blood, but do I believe it > > exactly > > > >>as it has been carried? No. I believe you have to look under stones > not > > > >>yet turned over. I believe you have to definitely read between the > > lines. > > > >>Go places no one else has gone. All of this is necessary in tracking > > > >>down Indian Ancestors. Even then, there is a strong possibility that > > what > > > >>you know in your heart to be true, may never be proven. There were too > > > >>many secrets. Too much shame placed. Too much running from the truth. > > > >>Crystal Murphy > > > >>Lincoln Co. NC Descendant > > > >>Wandering around in search of lost Ancestors > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== > > > >==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== > > > >Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC > > > >For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm > > > >Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== > > > ==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== > > > Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC > > > For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm > > > Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page > > > > > > > > > ==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== > > ==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== > > Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC > > For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm > > Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page > > > > > > > > ==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== > > ==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== > > Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC > > For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm > > Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page > > > > > > > > ==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== > ==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== > Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC > For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm > Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page >

Someone with Anns book will have to look at this but seems like I remember that his man was working on thier farm or something of that sorts. It has been years since I documented this stuff out of her book. So Since Marcus was born in 1823 and Stephen Miller Whitner was born in 1820 he could have very well been the father to both. Margaret would have had to have been close to this family for her daughter to have married into it. I feel sure if anyone off this line is tested they to will carry this DYS19b gene.

Well I think I just might have found what I was looking for. Margaret Ikerd had a child out of wedlock named Sarah Myra Poovey, She married Stephen Leander Miller Whitner. Ann states that He was of mixed race believed to be Melungeon dark skin people of either Portugese orgin or French. This was Margarets daughters husband so some where Margaret had this other child who is the Gggrandfather of my husband with either this person or Lord knows who but he carrys this gene also. So Stephen Leander Miller Whitener was born Oct 1819. So I would say there had to be.

My husband is carrying this DYS19b Y Cromozone I have no idea now who his gggrandfather really was but he was born in Lincoln County in 1823 to mother Margaret Ikerd and now since he does not match who the father was suspose to be, Lord knows, but this gene is carried by the Melungeons and also High Priestly Jews. So Someone was in that area in 1823. And out of 900 families tested for DNA, he is the only one they have ever found. So what are our possibilites here also? Mary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn E.Wesson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 4:17 AM Subject: RE: [NCLINCOLN] Indian capture>>>> Melungeons > I am not sure this is a question that can be answered here, but does anyone > on the list know if there were Melungeons reported to be as far east as > Lincoln Co. in the 1820s? > Thanks, > Lynn Wesson > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert and Sue Carpenter [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 10:25 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Fw: [NCLINCOLN] Indian capture>>>> Melungeons > > > Dear folks, > > I have been reading some of your writings over the last few nights but have > not had time to make comments. I have now found some time. > > First, the issue of an Indian capture in the 1830's or so. This would be > highly unlikely in the Gaston-Lincoln-Catawba County area. This is the > period when the Cherokees were removed west. Any contact with Indians would > have been in western NC. The Cherokee posed a serious threat to white > settlers until the American Revolution. While the major Cherokee War which > occurred in 1760-61 was cited here, the Cherokees did pose a threat upon the > frontier in 1775-76. But the frontier at this time was not Lincoln and > Catawba County but rather present Burke and McDowell Counties. The Indians > raided white settlements at Old Fort and at Pleasant Gardens at that time > and General Griffith Rutherford took a 1000 man militia force over the > mountains. His soldiers did not fight many Indians, most of whom had fled. > But rather they simply burned villages and crops. Their destruction in the > Cherokee Expedition of 1776 left the Cherokee nation much weaker. But near > the end of the Revolution in 1781 and 82 rumours of Indian activity > resurfaced upon this western frontier. Again local militia officers from > our area raised units and marched westward destroying towns, crops, and > women and children. The Cherokees never again were seen as a serious threat > to the white settlers. But whites continued to trade with them, to marry > them, and to come into contact with them. > > Melungeons -- what an interesting topic. This unusual group of mixed race > people from the mountains of Appalachia has been the source of much > confusion. I have read Brent Kennedy's book and find the research > fascinating. Unfortunately without DNA evidence or archaeological evidence > I suspect that the truth may remain unconfirmed. Little written information > about these people exist and most of it was written by the Melungeon's > adversaries. The suggestion that they may descend from Portuguese and > Spanish explorers who lived in western NC with Juan Pardo is possible but > also questionable. Too little evidence yet exists to prove their unique > existence except as a mixed race people of the Appalachian Mountians. Of > course that makes DNA testing suspect. > > DNA testing is another tool for genealogists. I have tested my DNA at the > request of a Carpenter descendant from California. He traced his line to > Georgia, to a John T. Carpenter who was born in NC. He could not trace any > further back. He suspected that he was descended from a Lincoln County > Carpenter but could only find circumstancial evidence. He talked me into > having my DNA tested. If we matched we could surmise that he was related in > the manner he suspected. We did in fact match with only one marker off. We > have since concluded that he belongs to our Carpenter family. We are > encouraging other Carpenters from this area to have their DNA tested so that > we might prove that all the descendants of the earliest Carpenter/Zimmermans > are closely related. So far three of us have matched. We need, like Mr. > Cosner, more people to be tested. I encourage anyone who is interested to > get tested. > > Our test is the Y chromosone test which applies to males only. There is a X > test for females. I am not as familiar with that test except that it is > done. > > I have enjoyed all the discussions. > > Robert Carpenter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Derick Hartshorn" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 2:41 PM > Subject: Re: [NCLINCOLN] Indian capture>>>> Melungeons > > > > One of the most recent History Channel presentations was on a subject near > > and dear to the hearts of researchers in this area: > > the Melungeon > > http://www.melungeon.org/?BISKIT=%3C$::BISKIT%3E&CONTEXT=cat&cat=10023 as > > studied in DNA. > > Abe Lincoln is said to be a Melungeon. They quote: > > > > WEIRD U.S. continues with an investigation into the Melungeons. In 1673, > > when the "first" settlers arrived in Appalachia, they discovered an entire > > group of people already living there. These people -- the Melungeons -- > > were of unknown ancestry. They had physical traits common to Northern > > Europeans, Africans, and Native Americans, as well as unique physical > > characteristics like "shovel teeth" and a prominent bump at the back of > the > > skull. Yet, where had they come from? Were they descendants of early > > sailors? Were they a lost colony that no one knew about? Today, many > people > > in the south think of Melungeons as little more than mythical trolls who > > lived in the mountains. Yet, the Melungeons were real and their ancestors > > are alive and well. The WEIRD U.S. team undertakes the mission of figuring > > out who these people really were utilizing modern DNA testing procedures. > > [see www.historychannel.com for listings]. > > > > --Derick > > > > > > > > At 02:25 PM 12/14/2004, [email protected] wrote: > > >Right on, Crystal. You've just described the process of genealogical > > >research whether we are looking for Indian, Polish, Italian, or > > >fill-in-the-blank ancestors. Most of us on this List are wandering around > > >out there with you! > > > > > >The original inquiry produced some interesting exchanges, and I've > enjoyed > > >the messages. > > > > > >Kathy Sullivan > > > > > >>In a message dated 12/14/2004 11:07:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > >>[email protected] writes: > > >> > > >>Almost any family lore that includes Indian relationships or experiences > > >>requires cautious (skeptical) examination. > > >> > > >>Kathy Sullivan > > >>********************************************* > > >> > > >>My family, both sides, have told stories over the years of our Indian > > >>heritage. I do believe there is Indian blood, but do I believe it > exactly > > >>as it has been carried? No. I believe you have to look under stones not > > >>yet turned over. I believe you have to definitely read between the > lines. > > >>Go places no one else has gone. All of this is necessary in tracking > > >>down Indian Ancestors. Even then, there is a strong possibility that > what > > >>you know in your heart to be true, may never be proven. There were too > > >>many secrets. Too much shame placed. Too much running from the truth. > > >>Crystal Murphy > > >>Lincoln Co. NC Descendant > > >>Wandering around in search of lost Ancestors > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== > > >==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== > > >Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC > > >For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm > > >Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page > > > > > > > > > > > ==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== > > ==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== > > Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC > > For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm > > Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page > > > > > ==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== > ==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== > Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC > For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm > Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page > > > > ==== NCLINCOL Mailing List ==== > ==== LINCOLN Co., NC Mailing List ==== > Sharing information on Historic Lincoln Co., NC > For further info, see www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/nclincoln.htm > Our thanks to RootsWeb for hosting this list and web page > >

There has been a lot of work done on the Melungeon's including extensive DNA research. If you go to Google and put in just the name you will find an abundance of information. There is also a web site exclusive to Melungeon research. I first ran across this fascinating subject years ago when I happened upon a Genealogical Quarterly devoted to the Goins/ Gowen surname. I d not know if it is still published, but back copies are surely available. An address for the Melungeon Family Genealogy Forum on GenWeb is available below there are 15050 messages available to read, question, respond, contact, etc. - you might have to cut and paste: http://genforum.genealogy.com/melungeon/ Agnes C. On 12/17/04 9:00 AM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: > From: "Lynn E.Wesson" <[email protected]> > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 07:17:04 -0500 > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: [NCLINCOLN] Indian capture>>>> Melungeons > > I am not sure this is a question that can be answered here, but does anyone > on the list know if there were Melungeons reported to be as far east as > Lincoln Co. in the 1820s? > Thanks, > Lynn Wesson