ate: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:17:04 -0800 From: Terry and Peggy <hawks2@home.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: Martha Marble <mmarble@erols.com> Subject: Re: [NCLENOIR] Duplin Co - Sutton, Ellis, Hardy etc I am having some problem answering this because on a reply or forward your lines disappear and so does the bold so am cutting and pasting and hope I get them all. 1 didn't Benjamin and Sarah have a son William Sutton b 1770? ***Not that I have seen any evidence of although there is a probable unknown son found in the household and that could have been William. The census indicates he may have died by 1840 or at least he is not in the household. Might have to change that on the database but would like to find something else. The William generally assumed to be the son of Benjamin (Oxley) appears to have been his brother, not his son. 4 wasn't Hardy Sutton son of John Sutton son of Benjamin Sutton? *** There were a bunch of Hardy Suttons and I can't separate them. Benjamin (Oxley) had a son Hardy, probably his youngest son, and then in the next generation the name Hardy shows up several times. It is the next generation I can't separate. John b 1779 did have a son Hardy bc 1835. 2 didn't Benjamin and Sarah have a son John Sutton b 1779? who also had a son named John? **** Yes - I descend from the son John bc 1779 through his daughter Martha (Patsy) 3 also wasn't Benjamin father named John Sutton? *** yes and it is proven 5 wasn't Simon Sutton son of Benjamin and Sarah? *** There is no evidence that Simon was a son of Benjamin and Sarah even though it has been so written. According to the Census and other documents, Simon was probably one of the youngest sons of John I and therefore a brother to Benjamin (Oxley). That is not to say Benjamin did not have a son Simon, but only one can be found in the records - the older one. William Creech to Thomas Sutton and wife - already have somewhere 6. was Thomas Sutton son of Benjamin and Sarah? **** Benjamin and Sarah appear to have had a son Thomas, but not this one or the circumstantial evidence does not support it. I don't know who this one was. His daughter, Penelope, was the 3rd wife of Calvin Dail of Duplin. This THomas lived in the same area of Simon but I have seen no evidence that Simon had any children. NOTE: I bet Jesse Hardy's wife, Sarah was a daughter of Benjamin and Sarah Hardy Sutton. The Hardy book gives Sarah Sutton's birthdate as 1772 and her husband Jesse Hardy as 1779. The date 1772 could have been a typo or misread by the transcriber. 7. Could it be possible that the date for jesse is a typo? ****Sure but I went back and looked at that William Hardy Bible this afternoon and the original does NOT give any birth dates for either Jesse or Sarah - just a marriage date so the year birthdates in the Hardy book did NOT come from the Bible. Don't know about Jesse, but do think Sarah's is too early. Her mother was bc 1759 and she would have only been 13 when her daughter Sarah was born - possible but not probable. Sarah was probably the oldest daughter but not sure if she was born before or after John bc 1779. Probably never know. 8 wasn't Alfred Ellis married to Elizabeth Sutton daughter of Benjamin and Sarah? BOOK O p 273 *** Yes and recently been in contact with a descendant who is going to be excited about finding the Ellis family in Duplin. She gave me a little information on the family who left the area. Must be a will naming the father in Duplin but we did not have time to look at the Wills that day. I need some time to sort out this new information and it will probably be next week since will be out of town over the weekend. What is your reading on the connection between Jesse Hardy, William Sutton etc? BYW, several people think that Dennis Daly's wife was a Sutton and they named their oldest son, William. There is nothing to back that up but took note that Dennis Daly was a WIT on one of those deeds. Maybe she really was a Sutton and daughter of William, heretofore unknown son of Benjamin and Sarah. Martha

Guy, I think it very important to note where an original Bible is located if known or found and I just found one. On Lenoir Archives is a "Loftin Bible" posted by Carol in 1998. Would you add the following note to it at the top. The ORIGINAL Bible Sheets of this Bible were located in October 2001 in the Emily Loftin Collection, Carteret County Historical Society, Morehead, North Carolina. Thanks. Martha

I have sent the will of Simon Bright IV of Lenoir - partial will - and the Susan Harper Will (1853) of Pitt to Guy for posting. Susan was the widow of Alexander Harper III of Greene Co. Brenda, I am a little confused on Susan. Was she Susan Walston? Both were found in the Emily Loftin Collection in Morehead. Does anyone know which Francis Harper was married to Zilpha McCoy of Craven, I assume. Francis and Zilpha lived in Pitt but sold land in Craven in 1822 they inherited from Zilpha's father, William McCoy. Martha

Between what I found in Duplin and Wayne, some changes are going to have to be made to the Sutton database. Making changes because of new information is always a pleasure. It appears that James SUtton, probable son of John I lived on Buck's Swamp in Wayne and there were later Suttons on Buck's Swamp indicating James may have had children. Have not had time to work with this new information but would like some feedback on the two deeds with Benjamin Sutton and Jesse Hardy and how William Sutton gets into this mixture. Sure looks to me like there is enough circumstantial and possible hard proof that Jesse's wife, Sarah Sutton, was the oldest child of Benjamin (Oxley) and Sarah Hardy Sutton although think her birthyear is probably off a few years. Simon, probable son of John I appears to have lived in Duplin, but I can't find any children for him. A later Thomas whose daughter married into the Dail family was in the right area. Some work also needs to be done to see if some of this land was originally in Dobbs Co as thought by Aileen Mewborn. My thanks to my sister who learned how to abstract on the job and helped with this project. Martha FROM Original Books at Courthouse BOOK 7A p 412 Benjamin Sutton to William Sutton, both of Lenoir Co - 374 acres - $500 - waters of Great Branch - 124 acres - Beaverdam; another tract - adj John Thomsoe patent, Gray - 95 acres; another tract adj Gray, Stanley - 55 acres - another tract patented by Benjamin Sutton 14 Oct 1808 - 40 acres; another tract adj Hoody's ?? corner, SS Branch - 50 acres Signed by Mark WIT A. Keaton To court July Term 1822 - on oath of Edward Alberton BOOK 7A p 37 3 Feb 1819 - Edwin Ellis of Duplin Co to William Sutton of Lenoir Co - 90 acres - $325 - both sides great Branch adj sd William, John Roberts, John M. Ellis, Richard Rouse - my part of my father's land alloted to me (does not give father's name) WIT D. Glisson, Edw Alberton, Jesse Hardy To court Jan Term 1820 on oath of Jesse Hardy BOOK 7 B - 162 13 Nov 1835 - William Sutton of Lenoir Co to Jesse Hardy of Lenoir - 310 acres - $565.50 - several tracts on Great Branch - lst tract of 125 acres part of patent granted to Biby Bush for 200 acres on 14 May 1772; another tract of 95 acres - part of patent to Moses Stanly on 16 Nov 1790; another tract patented to Benjamin Sutton 14 Oct 1808 of 40 acres; another tract of 50 acres part of patent to John Albertson on 1 Sept 1785 - total of 310 acres signed by Mark WIT Alfred Ellis, Hardy Sutton April Term 1836 on oath of Alfred Ellis (was this land originally in Dobbs Co?) BOOK 7B p 178 William Sutton of Lenoir Co to Alfred Ellis of Lenoir Co - 237 acres - $433.50 - both sides of Great Branch - adj Alfred Ellis, John Roberts, Jesse Hardy, Richard Rouse - whole of patent to John Thompson for 100 acres on 11 Nov 1788 and part of another patent to Thompson on 10 Nov 1784 BOOK 8A 14 Jan 1811 - Simon Sutton of Duplin to Wiley Garner - $36 - Mirey Branch adj Garner and Sutton WIT D. Glisson, Needham (x) Garner To Court April Term 1824 BOOK 1-5-10-14-15 p 454 3 August 1840 - Ezell Sutton to John W. Monk - all of Duplin - 100 acres adj John Cook WIT Jacob Taylor, Wm. B. Wells BOOK 1-5-10-14-15 p 279 William Creech to Thomas Sutton and wife - already have somewhere BOOK DETU p 254 9 Jan 1817 - Benjamin Sutton and wife Sarah to Jesse Hardy - $1000 - Benjamin and Sarah to retain during their lifetime - Great Branch adj Edward Carter, Richard Rouse - 200 acres; another tract adj to above tract of 100 acres - runs through Picadilly signed with mark WIT Ed Alberton, Barbara Hardy NOTE: I bet Jesse Hardy's wife, Sarah was a daughter of Benjamin and Sarah Hardy Sutton. The Hardy book gives Sarah Sutton's birthdate as 1772 and her husband Jesse Hardy as 1779. The date 1772 could have been a typo or misread by the transcriber. BOOK K19 - p 445 16 April 1800 - Windel Davis of Lenoir to Benjamin Sutton of Lenoir - 390 acres for 108 pds - 200 acres - both sides of Beaver Dam - adj Carter, through Picadilly, John Albertson's patent of 1779; another tract of 190 acres - part of patent to same John Alberton in 1785 BOOK 4A p 349 Indenture - 4 Feb 1811 - Windal Davis of Lenoir to Benjamin Sutton of Lenoir - 63 pds, 7 shillings, sixpence - 85 acres - Great Branch adj Rouse, sd Sutton WIT Jesse Hardy, James Davis BOOK Q p 264 8 August 1807 - Alexander Carter to Benjamin Sutton of Lenoir - 174 acres - 107 pds - Great Branch called the Gray land - part of patent to Bibby Bush WIT L. Davis, Meclendal Jarman BOOK 8A - p 260 Indenture - ----Dec 1823 - John W. Ellis to Wm. Sutton - John William Ellis of Twiggs Co, Ga to William Sutton of Lenoir - $300 - Great Branch of the North East - part of patent of John Thompsoe in Nov 1784 - adj John Roberts, Richard Rouse, Alfred Ellis - my part of my father's estate - 92 acres Signed by mark WIT Joseph Beven, Dennis D. Sanders BOOK 13 p 252 31 Dec 1840 ?? - Alfred Ellis to Benjamin Sutton of Lenoir - 435 acres for $1000 - three parcels - patent granted to John Thompson on 10 Nov 1784; second tract patent to John Thompson of 11 July 1788; third tract patent to William Albertson dated 27 Feb 1806 adj Wendal Davis, Great Branch - being the rights of Wm. Sutton and Jesse Hardy to me the balance full to me of their heirship WIT Dennis Daly, William Sutton NOTE: The way this reads although it is not absolutely clear - William Sutton and Jesse Hardy were heirs together. Was Alfred also an heir of the same person. We know that Alfred married a daughter of Benjamin and Sarah Hardy Sutton, and we know that Benjamin dc 1837. I have no son by the name of William for Benjamin and Sarah but do have an unamed son who appears in their household in 1830 and not in 1840 and I assumed he died at that time. Certainly William Sutton and Jesse Hardy were heirs together giving more circumstantial that Jesse Hardy's wife was the daughter of Benjamin and Sarah Hardy Sutton. BOOK O p 273 7 April 1805 - Wiley Garner to Simon Sutton - 65 pds - 100 acres - SS of the NE on the Mirey Branch WIT Needham (x) Garner, Jr, Needham (x) Garner Sr. BOOK N p 500 22 March 1802 - Jesse Waters of Lenoir to Benjamin Sutton of Lenoir - 100 pds - one tract on NE side of the N East Branch of the Cape Ferar - 95 acres granted to Moses Stanley on 16 November 1790 - fork of Great Branch adj to John Thompsons; another tract - 55 acres adj the before mentioned being part of a 200 patent granted to John Thompson 10 November1 1784 WIT James Hall, Jo Gillisphee

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/QUB.2ACE/330.1 Message Board Post: Hi Francine, I am answering an earlier posting that you made about Andrews of Lenoir co. I am not familiar with Winston Andrews although I am a decendant of William H. Andrews of Jones co. Two of his children were Lillie Andrews Heath and John Andrews. Do these names ring a bell? Tom Davis in Suffolk, Va.

>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) >Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 22:30:33 -0500 >Subject: Re: [NCLENOIR] New Dobbs Court Records >From: "Sue Guptill" <sguptill@mindspring.com> >To: Martha Marble <mmarble@erols.com> > >Actually, Grace volunteered the records to Guy Potts. She's collected a lot >of interesting records from various sources over the years that have great >genealogical information. Some of the rest of us have volunteered to >transcribe them, Guy is coordinating, and Patty is posting, so this is a >great team effort. Our first thanks, though, go to Grace for her generosity >in making her work of many years available. >Sue > >---------- >>From: Martha Marble <mmarble@erols.com> >>To: NCLENOIR-L@rootsweb.com >>Subject: [NCLENOIR] New Dobbs Court Records >>Date: Tue, Oct 30, 2001, 10:12 PM >> > >> New Dobbs Court records posted on Dobbs archives from records of Grace >> Turner and posted by Sue and Annette. Many thanks ladies. Grace is a member >> of the Sat archives crew and at Sue's request made these records available >> to us for posting. Some have already been done on Lenoir or Greene last >> week and more to come. Many thanks Sue and Annette and to Patty for posting. >> >

New Dobbs Court records posted on Dobbs archives from records of Grace Turner and posted by Sue and Annette. Many thanks ladies. Grace is a member of the Sat archives crew and at Sue's request made these records available to us for posting. Some have already been done on Lenoir or Greene last week and more to come. Many thanks Sue and Annette and to Patty for posting.

>From: Terry and Peggy <hawks2@home.com> > >Resent-Bcc: > >I have that Jesse Hardy was b 1769 or 1770. He and Sarah were married >1796. He was 27 and she was 23. Their first child Thomas Fleetwood Hardy >was born 1798. Sort of didn't make any sense that she was older than he was. > >William Hardy and Sarah Sowell did have a daughter named Sarah born in >1759. She married Epherim White in 1780. Yes but Epharim died shortly thereafter according to some Bertie record I saw and Sarah did remarry a Sutton. Going to take getting back into Bertie and am not ready to do that yet. Probably not going to be able to prove all this until Bertie is done again but this might fall into place sooner or later. My hunch is both the Lenoir Suttons and Benjamin (Oxley)'s wife were out of Bertie. Proving it is entirely another matter. Many thanks.

Peggy, I am inclined to think this is correct based on what I found in Duplin Co but going to need some assistance in understanding this deed. Should have copied it and transcribed instead of abstracting it but was running out of time. Am inclined to think her birthdate is wrong. The Hardy Book says 1773 but her husband was bc 1779 and I am not sure that Benjamin Sutton was married in 1773. I descend from his son, John, who was bc 1779 according to the various census records. My hunch is Sarah may have been the eldest child, maybe born a year before or a year after 1779. The relationship of Jesse Hardy to William and Sarah Sowell Hardy is not proven as I understand it. My hunch is Sarah, wife of Benjamin (Oxley) Sutton was the daughter of William and Sarah Sowell Hardy and Benjamin Sutton was her 2nd husband. Sarah, their daughter was born in 1759 according to the Bible and for her to have had a child in 1773 is pushing it a bit. If Sarah was the daughter of William and Sarah Sowell Hardy, it would make sense that she would go back home to Bertie Co to visit her relatives, taking her children with her. Which would explain how Jesse Hardy and Sarah Sutton met. Thanks. Martha >From: Terry and Peggy <hawks2@home.com> >Resent-Bcc: > >Don't have any proof yet but when I looked them up at the LDS site: >name: Sarah Sutton >father Benjamin Oxley Sutton >spouse Jesse Hardy >It comes up with her born born in Lenoir co 1773 and married in Bertie >co 1796 to Jesse Hardy >Peggy > >

We have been through this before from another angle but have something in the Duplin Deeds of interest. Will run it soon as it all gets typed up. Jesse Hardy married Sarah Sutton and somehow there may be a connection with William and Sarah Sowell Hardy. Has anyone ever seen an documentation as to Sarah's parents? The Hardy Book does not give them but indicates she was of Bertie Co. She may have been the daughter of Benjamin (Oxley) Sutton and his wife Sarah said to be a Hardy. Martha

I have that Jesse Hardy was b 1769 or 1770. He and Sarah were married 1796. He was 27 and she was 23. Their first child Thomas Fleetwood Hardy was born 1798. William Hardy and Sarah Sowell did have a daughter named Sarah born in 1759. She married Epherim White in 1780. Does this help any?

Don't have any proof yet but when I looked them up at the LDS site: name: Sarah Sutton father Benjamin Oxley Sutton spouse Jesse Hardy It comes up with her born born in Lenoir co 1773 and married in Bertie co 1796 to Jesse Hardy Peggy

>From orignal books Readin Pope of Duplin to Jacob Lassiter Esq of Greene - 2 Sept 1809 - $2,000 - 777 aces in two tracks - etc - WIT Blaney Harper Junr, Charles H. Harper Blaney Harper of Lenoir had a Will ca 1880 and he owned a good deal of land in Duplin. I checked the Cross Indices and did not see any indication of how Blaney received this land - there was no Blaney in the Cross Indices which indicates he received it by Will - did not have time to check the wills. Harper names found in the Cross Indices ca 1830 - Cornelius, Jesse, James, Oliver, Daniel No Bright, no Nathan BOOK 7A p 378 15 April 1822 - Jesse Harper of Lenoir to Cornelius of Duplin - $500 - Cowhole swamp, Horsepen Branch on line between Cornelius and Warren Harper - 340 acres -0signed by mark Book 7A p 398 15 April 1822 - Jesse Harper to Warren Harper - both of Lenoir - $500 - 311 acres

These are the Collections listed for our area. Without question this is not all the Collections that pertain to Dobbs, Lenoir and Greene as Bill Murphy's Collection is not listed in the index. Going to take going through all the Collections in the Register to get a better idea. And, NO, I did not have time to even look at these so have no idea what is in them. Some of them might have more information on the ECU, Joyner Library, Manuscript Division URL. Martha COLLECTIONS TO CHECK DOBBS - nothing GREENE Hughes - Grimsley Fmaily 546.1 - 546.30 Lassister Family 167.1 - 546.30 LENOIR COUNTY Davis Family 204.1 Ellis Family Papers 261.1 Elmore Family Papers 262.1 - 262.3 William Elmore Papers 39.1 James Lewis Jones 473.1 Joseph Kinsey 63.1 Smith-Grady 94.1a Gloria Sutton Stone Collection 556.1 - 556.10s Sutton Family 315.1 Council Wooten 45.1 Josiah Wooten 609.1 John Heritage Bryan Papers William B. Bason - 528 Huge Collection from all over the state - information on families - he used to answer people who wrote to the archives. HAS TO BE OTHERS Started going through the Register, Collection by Collection BOOK 1-30 Grimes - Bryan 16.1 - 16.60 BOOK 30-60 Mickey Elmore 39.1 - 39.01 Council Wooten 45.1 John D. Whitfield Paers 50.1 George Bryan 55.1 Carolyn Cunningham 56.1 - 56.4

Mary Jane called me from a mutual friend's home in Tenn while I was in NC. SHe was so excited. She descends from Charles and Jemima Hardy Phillips of Lenoir Co. They moved to Buncombe Co, NC, then to SC, and ended up in Clay County, Ky. There was a 10 to 15 years time period they disappeared and Mary Jane has looked for them for 50 years and her father looked another 50 years without sucess. While in Nashville, she had three days away from her opera business and went to the archives and found Charles and Jemima in McMinn Co, Tenn. She said that McMinn Co was adj to NC and was originally Indian land and that is an odd place for people from eastern NC although they did move to Tenn from SC, not NC. Will be interested to see if other names appear in the McMinn Tax list that sound interesting. In the meantime, it appears that David Cobb of Pitt may have moved with the Phillips family to all these places. Does anyone know of any connection between the Phillips family of Craven/Lenoir and the Cobbs of Pitt? Martha I'll send you the xeroxes of the 1829-31 and 1836 Tax List index next week. Do you know what the connection might be between David Cobb SR and JR. in Pitt County and our Phillips families? In McMinn Co. TN, Mason Phillips sold his land to David Cobb (I think Jr.), who was also his neighbor. From the NC census, I see that David Cobb lived in Pitt County, and also that a David Cobb was in Buncombe Co. (I think 1800, without going back to look it up) with my Charles Phillips. Same page of the census. An important Cobb family was also in Prince George Co. VA in 1720s. Much love, and more later.

Pat has shared with us the Public Law as it relates to what a Courthouse etc can charge. You might want to run this off and take it the next courthouse trip although the actual amount is not stated. Please also keep in mind something Jack told me. He was in Hyde County and they tried to charge him 50 cents a copy and he showed them the law and they backed down to 10 cents. They also told him these fees was the only way they had of making a little money to pay for necessary overhead. Hyde is not exactly a teeming county and I understand what they were saying. Some of the courthouse staff members are real helpful and others have a bad attitude. Some of the nicest and most helpful staff members are in these little poor counties. Jones is a poor county and extremely helpful but personally I think $1.75 for two pages a bit much. Many thanks, Pat, for the information. Martha Martha, Here is the link for the North Carolina Public Records Law. It states the cost in the very first section http://www.ncpress.com/publicrecordslaw.html Pat Armor

Was this just a NC law or whatever? Wish Texas would adopt. I paid $1.00 each for a legal size copy at our local courthouse. They were 50 cents before that. Rose ----- Original Message ----- From: Martha Marble Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 1:08 PM To: NCLENOIR-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [NCLENOIR] Courthouse copying costs I was told by the director of the Carteret Co Historical Society that a law or directive or whatever was issued by the State about two years ago to all state institutions ie colleges, Courthouses etc that they could not charge more than it cost them to make copies for the public of documents in the public domain. He was going to send me a copy of this but he is going in a hundred directions at this time and we have not had any mail since Sat a week ago in this area. It cost them 2 cents a copy but they can charge 10 cents but not the 50 cents and up some charge. I was charged $1.75 at the Jones Co Courthouse for two pages - but they were much nicer and more helpful than many. Are any of you aware of this directive/law and have a copy of it? According to Jack, the Courthouses are aware of it but choose to ignore it unless they are called on the issue by a patron. Martha

Just sent Guy a small Collection called Murphey/Taylor Collection. Actually it is a very large Collection but mostly Craven and other counties with their records and I did not abstract them. Guilford Murphey - this Murphey family from Craven Stanton Taylor family of Greene and Lenoir Letters to and from the Windsor Dixon family of Greene which were not abstracted because they were really not that interesting. Did pull a few tidbits from them. SOme Hartsfield, Bruton information Martha

I was told by the director of the Carteret Co Historical Society that a law or directive or whatever was issued by the State about two years ago to all state institutions ie colleges, Courthouses etc that they could not charge more than it cost them to make copies for the public of documents in the public domain. He was going to send me a copy of this but he is going in a hundred directions at this time and we have not had any mail since Sat a week ago in this area. It cost them 2 cents a copy but they can charge 10 cents but not the 50 cents and up some charge. I was charged $1.75 at the Jones Co Courthouse for two pages - but they were much nicer and more helpful than many. Are any of you aware of this directive/law and have a copy of it? According to Jack, the Courthouses are aware of it but choose to ignore it unless they are called on the issue by a patron. Martha

Roger is going throught the General Assembly/Legislative Papers for Petitions and this information will be published in the PCFR. Took a quick look at what he had done and the only one I saw for Greene or Lenoir was Box 2 - 1808 - Silas Lassiter to son Nathan - on Wheat Swamp Roger is only doing an index although he might do the details of the Pitt ones he finds. This is a huge project and will be most helpful to many people. Martha