Thanks -----Original Message----- From: Trish Worthington Cobb [mailto:turniproots@coastalnet.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 8:54 AM To: NCHALIFA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [NCHALIFA] John Hardy "imported" to NC Bebe, That is a very good question. You are right to wonder about their original location. I do too. In 1696 Bath County was formed from Albemarle County. In 1705 it was divided into three counties: Wickham (now Hyde and part of Dare), Pamptecough (now Beaufort, Pitt, and Pamlico) and Craven (containing Carteret, Johnson, Dobbs, and what are now over half the counties in this state. It would be easier to name the counties which were not once included in Bath/Archdale/Craven County.* *Source: Chart showing Origin of North Carolina Counties by D. L. Corbitt of the North Carolina Historical Commission and L. Polk Denmark of the State Highway & Public Works Commission, 1940. So we may not know exactly where this Hardy family was "imported " considering it cold have been anywhere within half of this states land. Hope someone can shed some light on this. The early Hardy's of Pitt County settled along the Tar River, which would be up the Pamlico River from the town of Bath. My Hardy line ends up in Dobbs County, but one source says they came from Bertie, so I just don't know. A little more about water ways: In The History of a Southern State - North Carolina, by Hugh Talmage Lefler and Albert Ray Newsome, they write: p. 55 "About 1707 a group of Huguenots from Virginia, -considerable in numbers- crossed the Pamlico River and took up lands along the Neuse and Trent." I'm not implying that the Hardy's were Huguenot, but this shows that settlement, during the same period of time that the Hardy's arrived, was often by sea. The Pamlico is a broad river and would require a substantial boat. I am intrigued with how my ancestors actually made their journeys. I'm sure there must be a scholar out there somewhere who has made a thorough study of means of immigration into North Carolina In looking back at the addresses of messages sent on this Hardy topic, some have gone through the NCHALIFA-L and some through NCBERTIE-L. I think Belinda is right, we should all be on the HARDY-L. I just subscribed to it. Trish >From: Bebenjohn@aol.com >Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 14:02:13 EST >Subject: Re: [NCHALIFA] Re: The John Hardy Spoil Sport >To: NCHALIFA-L@rootsweb.com > >In a message dated 2/8/00 1:35:38 PM, turniproots@coastalnet.com writes: > ><<Blackbeard sailed into the waters around Bath, and isn't that where >the Hardy's are thought to have been "imported" ?>> > >Hi Trish, > >I'm not saying that it didn't happen but that they MAY have come overland. >Does anyone know if those who were imported actually were ever physically in >Bath or was Bath a "district" in which these records were recorded and >perhaps kept? > >Bebe >

What year was this book published? Does it contain any information on the settlement of New Bern beyond the basic info that you normally see. At 11:26 PM 2/8/00 -0400, you wrote: >Forrest, > >I pulled out my copy of The History of a Southern State - North Carolina, >by Hugh Talmage Lefler and Albert Ray Newsome. Larry M Matthews 5412 Dutchman Dr Raleigh, NC 27606-9794 Researching Paternal MATTHEWS (Mathews/Mathis) in VA, Wilson Co-NC ;Nash CO-NC; Moore Co-NC WEEKS in Edgecombe Co-NC BASS-Wilson Co-NC GILL-Edgecombe Co-NC MOORE-Edgecombe Co-NC Maternal GUIN in Moore Co-NC, Hoke Co-NC Cumberland Co-NC, and VA MOORE in Pender Co-NC ; New Hanover Co-NC; Hoke Co-NC GURGANOUS-Pender Co-NC;New Hanover Co-NC GILLIS in Hoke Co-NC and Scotland McINNIS-Cumberland Co-NC; Hoke Co-NC McEACHERN-Cumberland Co-NC McFARLAND-Cumberland Co-NC

Bebe, That is a very good question. You are right to wonder about their original location. I do too. In 1696 Bath County was formed from Albemarle County. In 1705 it was divided into three counties: Wickham (now Hyde and part of Dare), Pamptecough (now Beaufort, Pitt, and Pamlico) and Craven (containing Carteret, Johnson, Dobbs, and what are now over half the counties in this state. It would be easier to name the counties which were not once included in Bath/Archdale/Craven County.* *Source: Chart showing Origin of North Carolina Counties by D. L. Corbitt of the North Carolina Historical Commission and L. Polk Denmark of the State Highway & Public Works Commission, 1940. So we may not know exactly where this Hardy family was "imported " considering it cold have been anywhere within half of this states land. Hope someone can shed some light on this. The early Hardy's of Pitt County settled along the Tar River, which would be up the Pamlico River from the town of Bath. My Hardy line ends up in Dobbs County, but one source says they came from Bertie, so I just don't know. A little more about water ways: In The History of a Southern State - North Carolina, by Hugh Talmage Lefler and Albert Ray Newsome, they write: p. 55 "About 1707 a group of Huguenots from Virginia, -considerable in numbers- crossed the Pamlico River and took up lands along the Neuse and Trent." I'm not implying that the Hardy's were Huguenot, but this shows that settlement, during the same period of time that the Hardy's arrived, was often by sea. The Pamlico is a broad river and would require a substantial boat. I am intrigued with how my ancestors actually made their journeys. I'm sure there must be a scholar out there somewhere who has made a thorough study of means of immigration into North Carolina In looking back at the addresses of messages sent on this Hardy topic, some have gone through the NCHALIFA-L and some through NCBERTIE-L. I think Belinda is right, we should all be on the HARDY-L. I just subscribed to it. Trish >From: Bebenjohn@aol.com >Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 14:02:13 EST >Subject: Re: [NCHALIFA] Re: The John Hardy Spoil Sport >To: NCHALIFA-L@rootsweb.com > >In a message dated 2/8/00 1:35:38 PM, turniproots@coastalnet.com writes: > ><<Blackbeard sailed into the waters around Bath, and isn't that where >the Hardy's are thought to have been "imported" ?>> > >Hi Trish, > >I'm not saying that it didn't happen but that they MAY have come overland. >Does anyone know if those who were imported actually were ever physically in >Bath or was Bath a "district" in which these records were recorded and >perhaps kept? > >Bebe >

John Hardy was in Isle of Wight Co. VA in the middle 1600's. I refer you to those records published by Blanche Adams Chapman regarding early I of W records. His brother also came to VA/NC. Also check: Seventeenth Century Colonial Ancestors: National Society of colonial Dames, compiled by mary Louise Marshall Hutton: Genealogical Publishing Co. Inc. 1983. The marriages as given below were found in marriages of I of W co. VA 1628-1800 by Blanche Adams Chapman and in the Old Free State by Landon Bell. John Hardy died ca 1675/77 I of W Va (will date 7 Oct 1675, recorded 9 June 1677 in Wills and Administrations of I of W 1647-1800 by B.A. Chapman) His will names dau Olive Driver, wife of Giles; Lucy Council wf of Hodges Councill; dau Deborah, Olive Driver's two children; dau Lucy's three children, his wife grandchild John Johnson, son in law Robert Burnett; Wm. Mayo. Wf Alice exr. I found that there seemed to have been two John Hardy's: John Hard (1613-1670/77)VA: married to #1 Olive Council and #2 Alice Bennett Johnson . This John Hardy was a Justice and Burgess. John Hardy (..... - 1719 ) NC/VA married to Rebecca ? and Charity O'Dyer Wulfeck Vol II p. 247 also has a John Hardy married to Ann Williams but gives no date. George Hardy was a brother to John Hardy. George married Mary Jackson. Alice Bennett (who later married John Hardy) married Richard Jackson 1647. (See Chapman). John Hardy (d. 1676/77) dau Olive Hardy mar. #1 Giles Driver in 1675, #2 John Bromfield 1679, John Pitt 1702. John Hardy's dau Lucy Hardy mar Hodges Councill whose will date was 1699 Iof W. Deborah Hardy married John Portis. Ann Hardy mar Robert Burnett and had dau Anne. Isabel Hardy mar William Mayo who was on theByrd Commission survey team that surveyed the line between VA/NC. They had seven children. I hope that some of this helps you researchers working on John Hardy. This is NOT my line and I have don't have very extensive files on these people or the time to give this problem at present, but am glad to share this much in hopes that it might help some of you. When I did this research some years ago, I came to the conclusion that the first John Hardy in America may have been a merchant shipping trans-Atlantic. One record I found said a John Hardy was part owner in the Mayflower. I would suggest that you check the Library of Va shipping records online and see if you can find any verification of that statement or other interesting information regarding John Hardy and his family. Loretta Kelldorf

In a message dated 2/9/00 6:53:14 AM, pandv@tyler.net writes: <<John Hardy (..... - 1719 ) NC/VA married to Rebecca ? and Charity O'Dyer>> Dear Loretta, Thanks for all the Hardy information and the sources. It appears that all pertains to the IOW Hardy family with one exception; "John Hardy (..... - 1719 ) NC/VA married to Rebecca ? and Charity O'Dyer." The above is the Chowan/Bertie county, NC family. John Hardy, Sr. m. Charity (probably O'Dyer) and John Hardy, Jr., very active in colonial affairs, m. Rebecca (sd. to be Byrd). John Jr. may have been m. more than once. This family has importation papers into NC/1695. If there is a familial connection between the IOW and Chowan (part which became Bertie) Hardys it has yet to come to light. Bebe Fox

Mike, Of course, I should have realized that was what was meant. Thanks, Bea

I also had problems with the web site. When I entered Kehukee to be searched, it came back with a bunch of numbered summaries which only referred to the location of various items, on where to find them while at WF library. Mike Gentry mrgentry@bellsouth.net Calier@aol.com wrote: > To Whom It May Cornern > > The instructions provided by Trish pertaining to subject matter were > followed, however, I was unable to pull up the site. Attempts to do so > resulted in the following message: > > "Unsupported Web Version - This Web page could not be opened. This page was > created using pre-HTTP/1.0 specifications, which are not supported by this > Internet online service. Please contact the owner of this Web page for more > information." > > If someone who is searching that site happens see the surname BUNN while > doing so, I would be most appreciative if you would let me know. In > addition, I am willing to share information with others who are researching > that surname. > > Danny Bunn

Bea, What was being said, I believe, is that when a church is no longer, then control of the church records are put in the hands of another church (controlling church). I am not aware why this happens, but according to what I was told by the NC Archives, that is what took place with Kehukee. Mike Slowm@aol.com wrote: > Hi Mike, I had not attempted to obtain any of the records, not that I would > not like to have them, I just have not been to the NC Archives. However, it > would be kind of hard to get permission from the Church if it has been > inactive since 1979 when the last member died. How could anyone give > permission for something that is no longer in existance and has no > membership? > Good luck > Bea

Forrest, I pulled out my copy of The History of a Southern State - North Carolina, by Hugh Talmage Lefler and Albert Ray Newsome. Here is some of what I found about early North Carolina ports of entry: p. 55 "About 1704, on a bluff overlooking the Pamlico River, a town was formally laid off by John Lawson, surveyor general of the province, who with Joel Martin and Simon Alderson, was its founder. On March 8, 1706, the legislature incorporated Bath, the first town in North Carolina. Bath grew very slowly and never became very prosperous, but it was a place of considerable political and commercial importance for a number of decades. Several sessions of the legislature met in the little town, and in 1715 Port Bath was created - the first official port of entry in the province." In 1709 Wiliam Gordon, an Anglican missionary wrote about Bath: " ...in all probability it will be the centre of trade, as having the advantage of a better inlet for shipping, and surrounded with pleasant savannas, very useful for stocks of cattle." p. 68 "Although Bath had been made a port of entry, it failed to develop as a great commercial center. ... Beaufort was begun about 1713 and in 1722 was made a port of entry. Within a few years Roanoke (Edenton), Currituck, and Brunswick were also made ports." p. 72 "...the Lower Cape Fear settlement may be said to have begun with the founding of the town of Brunswick, laid off by Maurice Moore about 1725, some fourteen miles above the mouth of the river. About 1733 the town of Wilmington was begun, sixteen miles farther up the river. These two towns became the shipping points of the Lower Cape fear, and both were included in the official Port of Brunswick." pp 78-79 "In the 1730's... Brunswick, which had been founded about 1725, was one of the best ports in the province; and Wilmington, destined to outrank all other ports, was begun about a decade later. Both towns were included in the Port of Brunswick, for a colonial port was an area rather than a specific town. As early as 1732 forty-two vessels cleared from Brunswick ..." p. 102 "...it should be remembered that most ships trading with the colonies were less than three hundred gross tons, that many of them were less than one hundred tons burden, and that ships as small as this could anchor at most of the North Carolina ports." "... Both people and goods traveled by water. It was cheaper and usually faster than land transportation... Most of the sailing craft carried passengers as well as freight, although conditions on such small craft were most uncomfortable..." p. 103 "Though North Carolina had a few good outlets for ocean commerce, it had an excellent system of inland waterways - sounds, rivers, and creeks. These waterways were adapted to small craft and became the chief arteries of trade and travel. Most of the large plantations and many of the small farms were located on or near navigable waters; all the important towns in the Coastal Plain were situated on watercourses; and along some of the rivers, especially the Roanoake and the Cape Fear, travellers reported that there were - many warehouses and stores. The emphasis placed on waterways was clearly revealed in the numerous road laws, like the one of 1745, which provided that roads be built - to the nearest landing." - Trish >From: Vafdking@aol.com >Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 17:39:43 EST >Subject: Thanks for your comments >To: turniproots@coastalnet.com >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Trish, > >Thank you for your input. I do not know about water ways and how easy they >are to access. I have been along a good portion of the coast line site >seeing but I did not pay attention to how easy it is to get a ship there. I >am not prepared to comment on that. I do know for some reason that >absolutely baffles me that there was very little intermarriage between the >Bath/Pasquotank, etc. are and Chowan/Bertie. They seem to be two separate >communities for the most part........ > >Forrest King >

In a message dated 2/8/2000 11:41:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, mrgentry@bellsouth.net writes: << Bea, What was being said, I believe, is that when a church is no longer, then control of the church records are put in the hands of another church (controlling church). I am not aware why this happens, but according to what I was told by the NC Archives, that is what took place with Kehukee. Mike Slowm@aol.com wrote: > Hi Mike, I had not attempted to obtain any of the records, not that I would > not like to have them, I just have not been to the NC Archives. However, it > would be kind of hard to get permission from the Church if it has been > inactive since 1979 when the last member died. How could anyone give > permission for something that is no longer in existance and has no > membership? > Good luck > Bea >> Kehukee Baptist Church is located in Tillery, North Carolina. I do believe that the Cemetery is abandoned. I went inot this cemetery but only got a few names. Florence

Why not ask on the Beaufort Co NC list? I know my Mother knew some Hardys. Shelby ^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^- ^-^-^ Shelby Jean CROCKER (1939) WINSTEADs: Cassie Pearl(1916), James Edward (1878), James Grey (1843), Flowers Lamon (1823), Joseph III (1791); Joseph Jr (1760), Joseph (I) (1725) etc.... Edlgecomb/Nash/Beaufort counties ^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^- ^-^-^ ----- Original Message ----- From: <Bebenjohn@aol.com> To: <NCHALIFA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 2:02 PM Subject: Re: [NCHALIFA] Re: The John Hardy Spoil Sport > > In a message dated 2/8/00 1:35:38 PM, turniproots@coastalnet.com writes: > > <<Blackbeard sailed into the waters around Bath, and isn't that where > the Hardy's are thought to have been "imported" ?>> > > Hi Trish, > > I'm not saying that it didn't happen but that they MAY have come overland. > Does anyone know if those who were imported actually were ever physically in > Bath or was Bath a "district" in which these records were recorded and > perhaps kept? > > Bebe >

List my name is horace poythress. i am looking for the children of richard and bertha lee scott in halifax co nc. bertha lee was my aunt. i need the names to help complete my family tree on this part of the tree. if you have any information on them please email me. i would like to hear from any others that are doing a tree for the poythress family. thank you for any information you can give. Horace poythress

Louis, I think we are talking about two different Hardy families. The Chowan/Bertie Hardys are not, as far as anything I have ever seen, related to the IOW Hardys. Bebe

Hi Bebe and Forrest and all other Hardy descendants, I have to disagree about the notion that all immigrants to North Carolina must have come overland from Virginia. North Carolina has plenty of waterways, and small ships did navigate the waters. Remember, boats come in lots of sizes. Most of the ships of the earliest settlers were very small. Blackbeard sailed into the waters around Bath, and isn't that where the Hardy's are thought to have been "imported" ? So while I am not arguing that they absolutely came by boat, I believe it certainly was possible. My Witherington ancestors are believed to have arrived in the town of New Berne via boat from Maryland prior to 1730. There was even some ship building in North Carolina. We could probably find some internet site with information on the history of the navigation of North Carolina's waters. Has everyone looked at Miss Ima Mewborn's research? Go to: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/7241/ima.html then click on Hardy Lineage: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/7241/hardy.html and be sure to click on her documentation. - Trish >From: Bebenjohn@aol.com >Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 07:55:21 EST >Subject: Re: The John Hardy Spoil Sport >To: Vafdking@aol.com, turniproots@coastalnet.com, prsmith@pdq.net, > dparks@interpath.com, pday@elltel.net, bjhughes@erols.com >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Hi Forrest, > >I, too, am after any and all documentation and am glad to have an interested >party. I do find it unusual for a family just to "show up" in NC. Our ports >here weren't and still are not the best, except maybe Wilmington but that are >is not where the Hardy's located. I know that Blackbeard plied the Albemarle >Sound but that was/is so trecherous. Don't you think it more likely that they >came across the Va. border like most in their neck of the woods did? If so >would seem that they HAD to live somewhere on American soil, at least for a >while, before locating in eastern NC. James Ffewox m. Anne Biggs, wid., and >brought his family plus hers to the region from Norfolk area (Edith Batchelor >m. Wm Hardy, my line)...which is really neither here nor there in this >discussion, though. > >I think it odd that none of John and Charity's sons or grandsons are named >Gabriel, don't you? > >Something else puzzles me....how do we know even the approximate ages of John > and Charity's children? Don't you think that if John Jr. were truly age 29 >(why do we think that?) when he died that he was pretty young to have held >all those important offices and owned so much land? Since he did die testate >in 1719 why do the colonial records not differentiate between father and son >with Jr. and Sr. in the court records, if in fact John Sr. d. in 1720 ,(why >do we think that?)? I have just glanced at the NC colonial records re John >Hardy in Raleigh a few years back but don't recall there being a Jr./Sr. >noted, do you? > >Another thing, the birth order. If John Jr. were only 29 in 1719 do we >assume that he was an older son? The reason I ask is that thus far I haven't >seen anything to indicate that his brother Wm was needy, yet John, with >Rebecca's approval, gave him 300 plus acres on Salmon Creek in ca 1617, I >think it was. > >There is still so much to try to find out. Intriguing, isn't it. If anybody >has any ideas or answers I would be so happy to hear them. > >Thanks, > >Bebe Fox >Winston-Salem, NC > >In a message dated 2/8/00 6:54:25 AM, Vafdking writes: > ><<I also descend from John Hardy who died in Chowan County about 1720 through >his daughter Mary. > >I view myself as somewhat of the spoiled sport because as much as I would >like to declare victory on the O'Dwyer connection, I do not think I can make >that stretch. There is too much of a leap of faith for me. It would be nice >to see the original court appearance and see if there is more light that can >be shed. > >The best argument that I am aware of in favor of the John Hardy/Charity >O'Dwyer is primarily based on the names. We do know that a John Hardy >married a Charity O'Dwyer before fall of 1673 most likely in Virginia. >Charity is NOT a common name for early Virginia so a case can be made that >when a John Hardy and Charity show up in North Carolina you would have to >take a look at them as a serious possibility. > >The argument against is based on their court appearance in North Carolina and >the age of the children. In 1695, 22 years after they were last sited in >north of the James River, there is a John Hardy and Charity come to court and >ask for 50 acres for themselves and all of their 5 children for a total of >350 acres. The North Carolina rules for receiving land are the same as for >Virginia at this time. This means one of three things, either they just >arrived and the parents and children were born in England, they went as a >family to North Carolina by way of England for some unknown reason, or they >had the equivalent of headrights. > >We can eliminate the latter option unless someone can find the record and see >if it says there where the equivalent of headrights because they are not >mentioned by Hathaway. We are left with either the family being a new >arrival or the whole family making a trip to England. > >The age argument is basically it seems that the children are not born before >1680 which meant that John and Charity waited at least 7 years before having >children which is unusual for the time period. > >The result of the above thinking makes it too much of a leap of faith to tie >Charity to the O'Dwyer family unfortunately. I hope additional records can >be found to clarify this situation more. > >Any thoughts? > >Forrest King>> >

Hi researchers, I have been researching the Carpenters of Halifax. My research suggests (although not proven) that Isaac was the son of William Carpenter, Jr. I believe that his father was William Carpenter, Sr and is the Carpenter married to William Reeves, Sr. daughter, Mary who is listed in W Reeves, Sr. will. The reason I bring all this up is that the research suggests that the Reeves, Whites (John, Valentine, et. al) and the Carpenters were closely related and migrated to Edgecombe then Halifax in the 1730's. These three families were closey related to the Hardy's. Therefore, my belief is that they four families came overland from Isle of Wight County VA which became Brunswickl,then to Halifax. Louis Carpenter

Trish, Gabriel O'Dyer may have been Charity's father. It does not seem unreasonable but I sure do wish that she had a son or grandson named Gabriel. That would pretty much clinch it. Bebe

Greetings to all, Today was our first day since our new list was launched and we already have 24 subscribers. I started the day off posting a notice on the Rice Genforum site and have since posted messages on the following VA GenConnect County sites: Goochland, Hanover, Louisa, New Kent, Prince Edward and Wythe. Would each of you please take a moment and post an announcement on the GenConnect County sites in the areas you are researching, advising them of our new list? This would be a tremendous help. Hopefully, as we gain subscribers, we will find other Rice researchers willing to share information. Please remember to advise them of the procedure to subscribe which is as follows: Send a message to Rice-Southern-L-request@rootsweb.com with the word SUBSCRIBE contained in the body of the text. Your assistance in advertising our list will be very much appreciated. Martha Rice

Greetings to all, Today was our first day since our new list was launched and we already have 24 subscribers. I started the day off posting a notice on the Rice Genforum site and have since posted messages on the following VA GenConnect County sites: Goochland, Hanover, Louisa, New Kent, Prince Edward and Wythe. Would each of you please take a moment and post an announcement on the GenConnect County sites in the areas you are researching, advising them of our new list? This would be a tremendous help. Hopefully, as we gain subscribers, we will find other Rice researchers willing to share information. Please remember to advise them of the procedure to subscribe which is as follows: Send a message to Rice-Southern-L-request@rootsweb.com with the word SUBSCRIBE contained in the body of the text. Your assistance in advertising our list will be very much appreciated. Martha Rice

In a message dated 2/8/00 1:35:38 PM, turniproots@coastalnet.com writes: <<Blackbeard sailed into the waters around Bath, and isn't that where the Hardy's are thought to have been "imported" ?>> Hi Trish, I'm not saying that it didn't happen but that they MAY have come overland. Does anyone know if those who were imported actually were ever physically in Bath or was Bath a "district" in which these records were recorded and perhaps kept? Bebe

Danny, I think I know what you mean. I had a problem with some of the links a couple of days ago, but keep trying. It may work next time. I think there were two links side by side, under each response to the search, and the link on the left gave me the problem, but the link on the right gave results. Go back to http://www.wfu.edu/Library/baptist/ and try searching the Biblical Recorder. I was able to find lots of my surnames there. Well worth the time it took to look through it. Hope you can get it to work for you. Trish >From: Calier@aol.com >Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 21:52:40 EST >Subject: Re: [NCHALIFA] Re: Kehukee Baptist Church >To: NCHALIFA-L@rootsweb.com > >Trish >Thanks for your rapid response. I erred when I stated I was unable to pull >up the site. I was able to reach the site, however, it was when I clicked on >Search our Site and entered Kehukee that I received the message mentioned. >Danny >