John O, Yes, Louisa & Luticia are one and the same, the 1850 census age for her is in error, she was born in the late 1840's. Henry and Noah Fox are brothers from Caldwell Co. , Caroline and Louisa were sisters and their brothers were all the old 1850 Grogans around here at that time. Now the Younce connection; Rhoda Younce, d\o Solomon and Sarah ? married Elijah Grogan, s\o Henry & Susan. Hannah Younce,d\o Solomon and Sarah ? married Henry Grogan, s\o Henry & Susan, Hannah's first husband was George W. Lawrence, he died in civil war. If you want more on this let me know and I will send it direct. Have a nice Day, Warren =========================================================At , you wrote: >Warren, > >I did not have a Louisa Grogan ( I have a ?Luticia born 1837 to Henry and For Houck's and related famlies in Ashe Co.NC go to; "http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=whouck" or http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/h/o/u/Warren-H-Houck/ For lots of down home stuff about Ashe,Alleghany & Wautauga Co'sNC, Grayson Co.VA and Johnson Co.TN go to; http://www.ls.net/~newriver/nrv.htm, http://www.tiac.net/users/mkatzman/jct/johnmain.html