My vote is still “No” but Karen’s reply is food for thought and opens further discussion. Nancy, Teton County Here goes: One official national rule is G. The state project shall have the responsibility to remove any links to websites which fail to meet The USGenWeb Project/XXGenWeb Project established guidelines/standards. Moving on to the MTGenWeb Project, our rule 10. says: IT IS ESSENTIAL that your site be well-maintained and updated as frequently as possible. Every site needs to have some basic research resources, i.e. Courthouse offices addresses, phone numbers, fees, etc., library, historical society, newspaper, cemetery names & addresses, funeral homes, etc. Many have also provided a bibliography page showing reference books available for their county and much more. Your site needs to be checked often for bad links, new ideas, etc., and the update "date" changed. We do check these and inquire of county coordinators if we find sites that have not been updated within a month or so. If you are ill, going on vacation, or having some temporary problems, the State Coordinator would like to know and, of course, we make exceptions for those times. So here is the state coordinator’s nomination for a new rule: The proposed new requirement for the MTGenWeb Project is: All MTGenWeb county websites must be updated at least once every 6 months and must have the last update date on the website. So let’s have a discussion on where this possible new sentence will appear in the wording of our rules. Do we amend rule 10? Karen also suggested that delinking would occur with noncompliance, but we don’t have a due process rule for that. Does the SC give the CC a warning, a nag, three warnings, three nags? Also, if that CC has really abandoned the site, he or she would not bother to remove the official logos. And another thing, the national rule says, D. If a Local Coordinator can no longer perform their duties for any reason, those sections of the website submitted or donated by contributors other than the website coordinator, shall remain with the website, unless the submitter(s)/contributor(s) indicates otherwise. So the county website might not be “owned” completely by the CC. That’s another sticky wicket.

First off, what you are referring to as rule 10, is actually a "strong suggestion" and is not a requirement. My proposal is to make updating once every 6 months and a last update date on the website a requirement. As such, it would be listed in the "required" section of the MTGenWeb Policies page. The "strongly suggested" #10 paragraph would not be modified. Second, the USGenWeb rules state that a CC has 14 days to correct a problem before any action is taken. That means that the CC's have 14 days from the time/date stamp on the email notifying them of a problem to correct it. After the 14 day time period, the SC can de-link the county website and remove the CC from the state's membership list if the problem has not been resolved. I usually send a 2nd reminder after a week if the CC hasn't replied to my email. Allowances are made for illness and other issues but it is the CC's responsibility to respond to the SC's email and explain the situation. In the instance of a CC who has abandoned a county website, you are correct. They would not remove logos and that is when the SC files a copyright infringement claim with the server where the website is housed. The website is considered to be owned by the CC but the contributed information is contributed for use on the county website and should remain with the county no matter who has control of the website.Therefore, information is considered to be owned by the county or the state project. Some state projects even have a rule that any information on a county website may not be removed. Shirley On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Nancy Thornton <[email protected]> wrote: > My vote is still “No” but Karen’s reply is food for thought and opens > further discussion. Nancy, Teton County > > Here goes: One official national rule is > > G. The state project shall have the responsibility to remove any links to > websites which fail to meet The USGenWeb Project/XXGenWeb Project > established guidelines/standards. > > > > Moving on to the MTGenWeb Project, our rule 10. says: > > IT IS ESSENTIAL that your site be well-maintained and updated as > frequently as possible. Every site needs to have some basic research > resources, i.e. Courthouse offices addresses, phone numbers, fees, etc., > library, historical society, newspaper, cemetery names & addresses, funeral > homes, etc. Many have also provided a bibliography page showing reference > books available for their county and much more. Your site needs to be > checked often for bad links, new ideas, etc., and the update "date" > changed. We do check these and inquire of county coordinators if we find > sites that have not been updated within a month or so. If you are ill, > going on vacation, or having some temporary problems, the State Coordinator > would like to know and, of course, we make exceptions for those times. > > > > So here is the state coordinator’s nomination for a new rule: > > The proposed new requirement for the MTGenWeb Project is: > > > > All MTGenWeb county websites must be updated at least once every 6 months > > and must have the last update date on the website. > > > > > > So let’s have a discussion on where this possible new sentence will appear > in the wording of our rules. Do we amend rule 10? > > > > Karen also suggested that delinking would occur with noncompliance, but we > don’t have a due process rule for that. Does the SC give the CC a warning, > a nag, three warnings, three nags? Also, if that CC has really abandoned > the site, he or she would not bother to remove the official logos. > > > > And another thing, the national rule says, D. If a Local Coordinator can > no longer perform their duties for any reason, those sections of the > website submitted or donated by contributors other than the website > coordinator, shall remain with the website, unless the > submitter(s)/contributor(s) indicates otherwise. > > > > So the county website might not be “owned” completely by the CC. That’s > another sticky wicket. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

You know, call me crazy (it's been done before), but am I the only person that considers my site to "belong" to the project?  Sure. I have spent my time and effort on it, but MTGenWeb gave me the core pages when I started.  But even if they hadn't, I still consider what I'm doing as work for this project.  If I leave, I want my work to carry on, and someone to build on it and make it that much better for those to come.  If I leave, it surely won't be to do Madison County somewhere else, so what would I do with those pages anyway?  And, I've put in a lot of time and effort on the USGenWeb Project that I wouldn't have done if I didn't think believe in it and want to see it be around for a long time to be a strong resource for new genealogists in the future. I will now take off my rose colored glasses and sit down. Jane >________________________________ > From: Shirley Cullum <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 1:49 AM >Subject: Re: [MTGEN] Delinking rule? > > >First off, what you are referring to as rule 10, is actually a "strong >suggestion" and is not a requirement. My proposal is to make updating once >every 6 months and a last update date on the website a requirement. As >such, it would be listed in the "required" section of the MTGenWeb Policies >page.  The "strongly suggested"  #10 paragraph would not be modified. > >Second, the USGenWeb rules state that a CC has 14 days to correct a problem >before any action is taken. That means that the CC's have 14 days from the >time/date stamp on the email notifying them of a problem to correct it. >After the 14 day time period, the SC can de-link the county website and >remove the CC from the state's membership list if the problem has not been >resolved. I usually send a 2nd reminder after a week if the CC hasn't >replied to my email. Allowances are made for illness and other issues but >it is the CC's responsibility to respond to the SC's email and explain the >situation. > >In the instance of a CC who has abandoned a county website, you are >correct. They would not remove logos and that is when the SC files a >copyright infringement claim with the server where the website is housed. > >The website is considered to be owned by the CC but the contributed >information is contributed for use on the county website and should remain >with the county no matter who has control of the website.Therefore, >information is considered to be owned by the county or the state project. >Some state projects even have a rule that any information on a county >website may not be removed. > >Shirley > > > > >On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Nancy Thornton <[email protected]> >wrote: > >> My vote is still “No” but Karen’s reply is food for thought and opens >> further discussion. Nancy, Teton County >> >> Here goes: One official national rule is >> >> G. The state project shall have the responsibility to remove any links to >> websites which fail to meet The USGenWeb Project/XXGenWeb Project >> established guidelines/standards. >> >> >> >> Moving on to the MTGenWeb Project, our rule 10. says: >> >> IT IS ESSENTIAL that your site be well-maintained and updated as >> frequently as possible. Every site needs to have some basic research >> resources, i.e. Courthouse offices addresses, phone numbers, fees, etc., >> library, historical society, newspaper, cemetery names & addresses, funeral >> homes, etc. Many have also provided a bibliography page showing reference >> books available for their county and much more. Your site needs to be >> checked often for bad links, new ideas, etc., and the update "date" >> changed. We do check these and inquire of county coordinators if we find >> sites that have not been updated within a month or so. If you are ill, >> going on vacation, or having some temporary problems, the State Coordinator >> would like to know and, of course, we make exceptions for those times. >> >> >> >> So here is the state coordinator’s nomination for a new rule: >> >> The proposed new requirement for the MTGenWeb Project is: >> >> >> >> All MTGenWeb county websites must be updated at least once every 6 months >> >> and must have the last update date on the website. >> >> >> >> >> >> So let’s have a discussion on where this possible new sentence will appear >> in the wording of our rules. Do we amend rule 10? >> >> >> >> Karen also suggested that delinking would occur with noncompliance, but we >> don’t have a due process rule for that. Does the SC give the CC a warning, >> a nag, three warnings, three nags?  Also, if that CC has really abandoned >> the site, he or she would not bother to remove the official logos. >> >> >> >> And another thing, the national rule says, D. If a Local Coordinator can >> no longer perform their duties for any reason, those sections of the >> website submitted or donated by contributors other than the website >> coordinator, shall remain with the website, unless the >> submitter(s)/contributor(s) indicates otherwise. >> >> >> >> So the county website might not be “owned” completely by the CC. That’s >> another sticky wicket. >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

That 14 day rule is great but it is nowhere on the mtgenweb.com site. The only page I see for rules is our “Policies” page. Nancy Teton County

All excellent points Nancy. We have needed a set of rules for the MTGenWeb project for a while and I am glad to see us talking about it and getting a start. I am not sure where our rule #10 comes from to be honest and am surprised to read "We do check those if they haven't been updated within a month or so". I think that is excessive and would like to see us settle on the once every 6 months and leave it at that. No need to check on a monthly basis. Thank you for posting that. As far as delinking, the USGenWeb rules do have guidelines that prevent a CC from being delinked unfairly. If a CC is treated unfairly they can file a grievance against the SC which is heard and decided upon by the Grievance Committee of the National Advisory Board. Yes notices must be sent but I do not think they rise to the level of nagging. Merely a set time for compliance unless someone has a reason they cannot comply. I would like to see our rules edited point by point and voted on. I believe that the additional rule can be added to the bottom of the document until such time that the rules are edited to refresh guidelines that we operate under. At that point it can be incorporated in the appropriate area. Yes Nancy, that sticky wicket has been around for the life of the project. It is an attempt to protect the donators against an unscrupulous CC that would take data submitted to the USGenWeb project. It allows the submitter to remove their donations if the site is no longer a USGW site or if they merely have a change of heart. One must use utmost prudence in these situations. Keep in mind that we cannot make rules for every situation and one must use common sense in this organization. Great discussion, Karen On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Nancy Thornton <[email protected]> wrote: > My vote is still “No” but Karen’s reply is food for thought and opens further discussion. Nancy, Teton County > > Here goes: One official national rule is > > G. The state project shall have the responsibility to remove any links to websites which fail to meet The USGenWeb Project/XXGenWeb Project established guidelines/standards. > > > > Moving on to the MTGenWeb Project, our rule 10. says: > > IT IS ESSENTIAL that your site be well-maintained and updated as frequently as possible. Every site needs to have some basic research resources, i.e. Courthouse offices addresses, phone numbers, fees, etc., library, historical society, newspaper, cemetery names & addresses, funeral homes, etc. Many have also provided a bibliography page showing reference books available for their county and much more. Your site needs to be checked often for bad links, new ideas, etc., and the update "date" changed. We do check these and inquire of county coordinators if we find sites that have not been updated within a month or so. If you are ill, going on vacation, or having some temporary problems, the State Coordinator would like to know and, of course, we make exceptions for those times. > > > > So here is the state coordinator’s nomination for a new rule: > > The proposed new requirement for the MTGenWeb Project is: > > > > All MTGenWeb county websites must be updated at least once every 6 months > > and must have the last update date on the website. > > > > > > So let’s have a discussion on where this possible new sentence will appear in the wording of our rules. Do we amend rule 10? > > > > Karen also suggested that delinking would occur with noncompliance, but we don’t have a due process rule for that. Does the SC give the CC a warning, a nag, three warnings, three nags? Also, if that CC has really abandoned the site, he or she would not bother to remove the official logos. > > > > And another thing, the national rule says, D. If a Local Coordinator can no longer perform their duties for any reason, those sections of the website submitted or donated by contributors other than the website coordinator, shall remain with the website, unless the submitter(s)/contributor(s) indicates otherwise. > > > > So the county website might not be “owned” completely by the CC. That’s another sticky wicket. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

just to be clear, I do not see on the national or state site, the 14 day rule

I agree with Karen that the MTGenWeb rules do need to be updated. The rules page is basically the same as it was when I became SC, except for 1 change we voted on in 2012. Shirley On Sun, Jun 15, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Karen De Groote <[email protected]> wrote: > All excellent points Nancy. We have needed a set of rules for the > MTGenWeb project for a while and I am glad to see us talking about it > and getting a start. I am not sure where our rule #10 comes from to > be honest and am surprised to read "We do check those if they haven't > been updated within a month or so". I think that is excessive and > would like to see us settle on the once every 6 months and leave it at > that. No need to check on a monthly basis. Thank you for posting > that. > > As far as delinking, the USGenWeb rules do have guidelines that > prevent a CC from being delinked unfairly. If a CC is treated > unfairly they can file a grievance against the SC which is heard and > decided upon by the Grievance Committee of the National Advisory > Board. Yes notices must be sent but I do not think they rise to the > level of nagging. Merely a set time for compliance unless someone has > a reason they cannot comply. > > I would like to see our rules edited point by point and voted on. I > believe that the additional rule can be added to the bottom of the > document until such time that the rules are edited to refresh > guidelines that we operate under. At that point it can be > incorporated in the appropriate area. > > Yes Nancy, that sticky wicket has been around for the life of the > project. It is an attempt to protect the donators against an > unscrupulous CC that would take data submitted to the USGenWeb > project. It allows the submitter to remove their donations if the > site is no longer a USGW site or if they merely have a change of > heart. One must use utmost prudence in these situations. > > Keep in mind that we cannot make rules for every situation and one > must use common sense in this organization. > > Great discussion, > Karen > > On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Nancy Thornton <[email protected]> > wrote: > > My vote is still “No” but Karen’s reply is food for thought and opens > further discussion. Nancy, Teton County > > > > Here goes: One official national rule is > > > > G. The state project shall have the responsibility to remove any links > to websites which fail to meet The USGenWeb Project/XXGenWeb Project > established guidelines/standards. > > > > > > > > Moving on to the MTGenWeb Project, our rule 10. says: > > > > IT IS ESSENTIAL that your site be well-maintained and updated as > frequently as possible. Every site needs to have some basic research > resources, i.e. Courthouse offices addresses, phone numbers, fees, etc., > library, historical society, newspaper, cemetery names & addresses, funeral > homes, etc. Many have also provided a bibliography page showing reference > books available for their county and much more. Your site needs to be > checked often for bad links, new ideas, etc., and the update "date" > changed. We do check these and inquire of county coordinators if we find > sites that have not been updated within a month or so. If you are ill, > going on vacation, or having some temporary problems, the State Coordinator > would like to know and, of course, we make exceptions for those times. > > > > > > > > So here is the state coordinator’s nomination for a new rule: > > > > The proposed new requirement for the MTGenWeb Project is: > > > > > > > > All MTGenWeb county websites must be updated at least once every 6 months > > > > and must have the last update date on the website. > > > > > > > > > > > > So let’s have a discussion on where this possible new sentence will > appear in the wording of our rules. Do we amend rule 10? > > > > > > > > Karen also suggested that delinking would occur with noncompliance, but > we don’t have a due process rule for that. Does the SC give the CC a > warning, a nag, three warnings, three nags? Also, if that CC has really > abandoned the site, he or she would not bother to remove the official logos. > > > > > > > > And another thing, the national rule says, D. If a Local Coordinator can > no longer perform their duties for any reason, those sections of the > website submitted or donated by contributors other than the website > coordinator, shall remain with the website, unless the > submitter(s)/contributor(s) indicates otherwise. > > > > > > > > So the county website might not be “owned” completely by the CC. That’s > another sticky wicket. > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Nancy, I was mistaken about rule # 10. The way the Rules page is written, it is a rule. And whether this particular proposal passes or not, rule #10 definitely needs to be amended. Shirley On Sun, Jun 15, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Karen De Groote <[email protected]> wrote: > All excellent points Nancy. We have needed a set of rules for the > MTGenWeb project for a while and I am glad to see us talking about it > and getting a start. I am not sure where our rule #10 comes from to > be honest and am surprised to read "We do check those if they haven't > been updated within a month or so". I think that is excessive and > would like to see us settle on the once every 6 months and leave it at > that. No need to check on a monthly basis. Thank you for posting > that. > > As far as delinking, the USGenWeb rules do have guidelines that > prevent a CC from being delinked unfairly. If a CC is treated > unfairly they can file a grievance against the SC which is heard and > decided upon by the Grievance Committee of the National Advisory > Board. Yes notices must be sent but I do not think they rise to the > level of nagging. Merely a set time for compliance unless someone has > a reason they cannot comply. > > I would like to see our rules edited point by point and voted on. I > believe that the additional rule can be added to the bottom of the > document until such time that the rules are edited to refresh > guidelines that we operate under. At that point it can be > incorporated in the appropriate area. > > Yes Nancy, that sticky wicket has been around for the life of the > project. It is an attempt to protect the donators against an > unscrupulous CC that would take data submitted to the USGenWeb > project. It allows the submitter to remove their donations if the > site is no longer a USGW site or if they merely have a change of > heart. One must use utmost prudence in these situations. > > Keep in mind that we cannot make rules for every situation and one > must use common sense in this organization. > > Great discussion, > Karen > > On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Nancy Thornton <[email protected]> > wrote: > > My vote is still “No” but Karen’s reply is food for thought and opens > further discussion. Nancy, Teton County > > > > Here goes: One official national rule is > > > > G. The state project shall have the responsibility to remove any links > to websites which fail to meet The USGenWeb Project/XXGenWeb Project > established guidelines/standards. > > > > > > > > Moving on to the MTGenWeb Project, our rule 10. says: > > > > IT IS ESSENTIAL that your site be well-maintained and updated as > frequently as possible. Every site needs to have some basic research > resources, i.e. Courthouse offices addresses, phone numbers, fees, etc., > library, historical society, newspaper, cemetery names & addresses, funeral > homes, etc. Many have also provided a bibliography page showing reference > books available for their county and much more. Your site needs to be > checked often for bad links, new ideas, etc., and the update "date" > changed. We do check these and inquire of county coordinators if we find > sites that have not been updated within a month or so. If you are ill, > going on vacation, or having some temporary problems, the State Coordinator > would like to know and, of course, we make exceptions for those times. > > > > > > > > So here is the state coordinator’s nomination for a new rule: > > > > The proposed new requirement for the MTGenWeb Project is: > > > > > > > > All MTGenWeb county websites must be updated at least once every 6 months > > > > and must have the last update date on the website. > > > > > > > > > > > > So let’s have a discussion on where this possible new sentence will > appear in the wording of our rules. Do we amend rule 10? > > > > > > > > Karen also suggested that delinking would occur with noncompliance, but > we don’t have a due process rule for that. Does the SC give the CC a > warning, a nag, three warnings, three nags? Also, if that CC has really > abandoned the site, he or she would not bother to remove the official logos. > > > > > > > > And another thing, the national rule says, D. If a Local Coordinator can > no longer perform their duties for any reason, those sections of the > website submitted or donated by contributors other than the website > coordinator, shall remain with the website, unless the > submitter(s)/contributor(s) indicates otherwise. > > > > > > > > So the county website might not be “owned” completely by the CC. That’s > another sticky wicket. > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >