Well said, Wanda. As the Attala List Administrator, I began this discussion about damage to tombstones and now it is time for me to end it. There were many very good and valid points made and the debate could last indefinitely. Be careful. Please, no more messages on this subject at this time. Everette Carr Attala List Administrator ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wanda Lentz" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 11:26 AM Subject: [MSATTALA] Tombstones and Gravesyards > Hello Group, > > The best thing that anyone can do is " be careful" > > We all want a good a picture but what that reporter did was wrong, you can > tell she has never walked in hip high weeds and underbrush to find an > family graveyard. > > The dirt from mother nature has protested these tombstones for many years, > be thankful that there is a marker on your great-grandfather's gravesite. > > Finding our past also means preserving our past. Clearly this reporter was > not a family researcher. > > Wanda Eakin Lentz > > > ==== MSATTALA Mailing List ==== > Have you visited the Attala Historical Society web site? The URL is > http://www.rootsweb.com/~msahs/ > Now would be a good time to support the Attala Historical Society! > >

Hello Group, The best thing that anyone can do is " be careful" We all want a good a picture but what that reporter did was wrong, you can tell she has never walked in hip high weeds and underbrush to find an family graveyard. The dirt from mother nature has protested these tombstones for many years, be thankful that there is a marker on your great-grandfather's gravesite. Finding our past also means preserving our past. Clearly this reporter was not a family researcher. Wanda Eakin Lentz

Thanks Brock for the acid info. I'm sure we all know that cemetery tombstones/markers are the personal and private property of the deceased family members. Doug

In fairness to this debate on whether to use or not to use shaving cream.......Would you mind expanding on the safe guards of using shaving cream on tombstones. I'm not a chemist, any idea what stearic acid and palmitic acid is? I asked Jeves, he gave me the British point of view. We all know what happen to the Brits, ole George sent them a packing a few years back. By the way this e-address at "Savingsgraves", [email protected], someone seemed to have pull the plug on it. Good hunting, Doug Where is the evidence? (Now watch a hundred people e-mail the doctrine from savinggraves and association for gravestone studies, neither of which provide any *evidence*, but rather only provide a rationale under the PRESUMPTION that shaving cream causes harm.) Brock Way ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brock Way" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 1:10 AM Subject: [MSATTALA] shaving cream for inscriptions - evidence of damage? > There is no evidence that shaving cream causes harm. > This is an old wives tale. And to prove that there is > no evidence...watch this: > > Where is the evidence? > > (Now watch a hundred people e-mail the doctrine from > savinggraves and association for gravestone studies, > neither of which provide any *evidence*, but rather > only provide a rationale under the PRESUMPTION that > shaving cream causes harm.) > > Brock Way > > Donna Drake wrote: > > I've never heard of using chalk and don't know if it > would damage headstone but shaving cream will cause damage. > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ > > > ==== MSATTALA Mailing List ==== > Before forwarding any Virus Warnings or Chain Letters to anyone, check > them out at: http://hoaxbusters.ciac.org/ Also, please Visit the Attala > County Rootsweb site at http://www.rootsweb.com/~msattala/ > >

Stearic acid and palmitic acid are both organic acids, which means that they are weak acids. This is in sharp contrast to mineral acids like hydrochloric acid and sulfuric acid, which are strong acids. As you might imagine, weak acids do not have the same characteristics as strong acids, in spite of the fact that the people at savinggraves like to pretend that they are the same in an effort to persuade people that shaving cream is evil. Brock Way --- cumyns4211 <[email protected]> wrote: > In fairness to this debate on whether to use or not > to use shaving > cream.......Would you mind expanding on the safe > guards of using shaving > cream on tombstones. I'm not a chemist, any idea > what stearic acid and > palmitic > acid is? I asked Jeves, he gave me the British point > of view. We all know > what happen to the Brits, > ole George sent them a packing a few years back. > > By the way this e-address at "Savingsgraves", > [email protected], someone seemed > to have pull the plug on it. > > Good hunting, > > Doug > > > Where is the evidence? > > (Now watch a hundred people e-mail the doctrine from > savinggraves and association for gravestone studies, > neither of which provide any *evidence*, but rather > only provide a rationale under the PRESUMPTION that > shaving cream causes harm.) > > Brock Way > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brock Way" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 1:10 AM > Subject: [MSATTALA] shaving cream for inscriptions - > evidence of damage? > > > > There is no evidence that shaving cream causes > harm. > > This is an old wives tale. And to prove that there > is > > no evidence...watch this: > > > > Where is the evidence? > > > > (Now watch a hundred people e-mail the doctrine > from > > savinggraves and association for gravestone > studies, > > neither of which provide any *evidence*, but > rather > > only provide a rationale under the PRESUMPTION > that > > shaving cream causes harm.) > > > > Brock Way > > > > Donna Drake wrote: > > > > I've never heard of using chalk and don't know if > it > > would damage headstone but shaving cream will > cause damage. > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources > site! > > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ > > > > > > ==== MSATTALA Mailing List ==== > > Before forwarding any Virus Warnings or Chain > Letters to anyone, check > > them out at: http://hoaxbusters.ciac.org/ Also, > please Visit the Attala > > County Rootsweb site at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~msattala/ > > > > > > > > ==== MSATTALA Mailing List ==== > Were you aware that a portion of the Diary of Judge > Jason Niles is available online at the Attala County > American Local History Network site? > http://www.usgennet.org/usa/ms/county/attala/jasonniles.htm/ > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

There is no evidence that shaving cream causes harm. This is an old wives tale. And to prove that there is no evidence...watch this: Where is the evidence? (Now watch a hundred people e-mail the doctrine from savinggraves and association for gravestone studies, neither of which provide any *evidence*, but rather only provide a rationale under the PRESUMPTION that shaving cream causes harm.) Brock Way Donna Drake wrote: I've never heard of using chalk and don't know if it would damage headstone but shaving cream will cause damage. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

Doug Cummins offered the below listed web site as a source of what to do and what not to do with respect to tombstones. I clicked on the link he posted and reviewed the web site in some detail. This site offers excellent advise on the subject of the care and preservation of tombstones. Everyone that spends time in cemeteries should take a moment and view the page dealing with tombstones. http://www.progenealogists.com/tombstonecare.htm Although this is a commercial site with the intent to sell the visitor genealogical search assistance for a fee, they offer many additional hints, tips and links to web sites that provide information without charging a fee. There is much useful information on the site, but you will have to spend some time to dig it out. I plan to add this site to the list of genealogical links on the Attala web pages because I think they have much useful information to offer to the ancestor researcher. You might want to take a moment to visit and explore. Everette Carr List Administrator

Rubbing an inscription is not sound advise as I stated earlier, check http://www.progenealogists.com/tombstonecare.htm for details........ Doug ----- Original Message ----- From: "cumyns4211" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 7:02 PM Subject: [MSATTALA] Tombstone Care > BlankThis site has some fairly sound info on tombstone care: > http://www.progenealogists.com/tombstonecare.htm > > Doug > > > ==== MSATTALA Mailing List ==== > Have you visited the Attala Historical Society web site? The URL is > http://www.rootsweb.com/~msahs/ > Now would be a good time to support the Attala Historical Society! > >

BlankThis site has some fairly sound info on tombstone care: http://www.progenealogists.com/tombstonecare.htm Doug

Shaving cream can also damage the stones. The best thing to use is a spray bottle with natural water and dirt. These two elements are in the natural environment and will not harm the stone. Anything with chemicals in the content (shaving cream) can harm the stone. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 12:31 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MSATTALA] Tombstone Damage Have also heard to spray shaving cream over the stone. It fills in the indentions and makes it readable. That's so sad, that she would do that........ Michelle ==== MSATTALA Mailing List ==== Were you aware that a portion of the Diary of Judge Jason Niles is available online at the Attala County American Local History Network site? http://www.usgennet.org/usa/ms/county/attala/jasonniles.htm/

Brushing the inscribed area with corn starch highlights the lettering also. Of course, after a few stones I looked like a flour mill employee. Regards. Marion Webb ----- Original Message ----- From: Gigi Tanksley<mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [MSATTALA] Tombstone Damage Just so everyone knows a stick of chalk rubbed long ways over the stone works really well. This is what we do. Gigi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Everette Carr" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 11:22 AM Subject: [MSATTALA] Tombstone Damage > Some of you may have seen this recent article in Dick Eastman's Newsletter: > > "It seems that a commercial photographer wanted to take pictures of the tombstones. She used a powered wire brush to "buff" the area around the lettering of roughly 400 of the cemetery's oldest tombstones to improve readability. You can see a picture of some of the damaged stones at " > > http://www.atholdailynews.com/index.php?id=10004247&offset=240<http://www.atholdailynews.com/index.php?id=10004247&offset=240> > > "Upon arrest, the photographer said that she was unaware that her actions would cause damage or that there were laws against it. She stated that she was surprised that anyone would be upset by her actions. > > The woman was arrested and could face over $1 million in fines and multiple prison sentences for the damage. > > There are indications that the same woman has caused similar damage in other, nearby cemeteries in recent weeks. " > > > > Everette Carr > > List Administrator > > Attala County List > > > ==== MSATTALA Mailing List ==== > If you have genealogical information pertaining to Attala County which you would like to have on the Attala County (MSGenWeb), website, please go to http://www.rootsweb.com/~msattala/<http://www.rootsweb.com/~msattala/> and click on 'contact'. > > ==== MSATTALA Mailing List ==== Be sure to visit the Attala County Genealogy (MSGenWeb) web site at http://www.rootsweb.com/~msattala/<http://www.rootsweb.com/~msattala/>

If she was a professional she should have checked out what to use on the Markers so they would not be damanaged. Marilyn

Have also heard to spray shaving cream over the stone. It fills in the indentions and makes it readable. That's so sad, that she would do that........ Michelle

To avoid damage to a tombstone, place a piece of paper (regular pc printer's paper will do.) over the inscription and rub the paper with charcoal over the inscription. A carpenter's pencil works well on fine printed inscriptions. Doug ----- Original Message ----- From: "Billy C. Parker" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [MSATTALA] Tombstone Damage > What a shame, although this was just another "invasion of privacy" by the > media for profit, I suspect. Ignorance should not be used as an excuse, > therefore I hope this person and others have learned or are learning a > lesson!! > > Does anyone know if this was a state law (MA) or federal law that was used > for the arrest? Also, what about the state of MS; do we have such a law > on > the books (other than general vandalism)? I would hope so but I am not > aware of any such law! > > Thanks for this and all the other valuable information that has been > posted > here. Been a Warren Co., MS resident for last 50 years but originally > from > Attala, a great place. Just about all my family are buried there. To > those > who have/are taking the time to document the various cemeteries in Attala > Co.; you deserve a pat on the back and lots of words of appreciation; at > least, a simple "thank you"! > > Billy C. Parker > Vicksburg, MS > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Everette Carr" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 11:22 AM > Subject: [MSATTALA] Tombstone Damage > > >> Some of you may have seen this recent article in Dick Eastman's > Newsletter: >> >> "It seems that a commercial photographer wanted to take pictures of the > tombstones. She used a powered wire brush to "buff" the area around the > lettering of roughly 400 of the cemetery's oldest tombstones to improve > readability. You can see a picture of some of the damaged stones at " >> >> http://www.atholdailynews.com/index.php?id=10004247&offset=240 >> >> "Upon arrest, the photographer said that she was unaware that her actions > would cause damage or that there were laws against it. She stated that she > was surprised that anyone would be upset by her actions. >> >> The woman was arrested and could face over $1 million in fines and > multiple prison sentences for the damage. >> >> There are indications that the same woman has caused similar damage in > other, nearby cemeteries in recent weeks. " >> >> >> >> Everette Carr >> >> List Administrator >> >> Attala County List >> >> >> ==== MSATTALA Mailing List ==== >> If you have genealogical information pertaining to Attala County which >> you > would like to have on the Attala County (MSGenWeb), website, please go to > http://www.rootsweb.com/~msattala/ and click on 'contact'. >> >> > > > > ==== MSATTALA Mailing List ==== > Searching for your Attala County ancestors? Visit the Attala County > Genealogy (MSGenWeb) web site at http://www.rootsweb.com/~msattala/ > >

Some of you may have seen this recent article in Dick Eastman's Newsletter: "It seems that a commercial photographer wanted to take pictures of the tombstones. She used a powered wire brush to "buff" the area around the lettering of roughly 400 of the cemetery's oldest tombstones to improve readability. You can see a picture of some of the damaged stones at " http://www.atholdailynews.com/index.php?id=10004247&offset=240 "Upon arrest, the photographer said that she was unaware that her actions would cause damage or that there were laws against it. She stated that she was surprised that anyone would be upset by her actions. The woman was arrested and could face over $1 million in fines and multiple prison sentences for the damage. There are indications that the same woman has caused similar damage in other, nearby cemeteries in recent weeks. " Everette Carr List Administrator Attala County List

What a shame, although this was just another "invasion of privacy" by the media for profit, I suspect. Ignorance should not be used as an excuse, therefore I hope this person and others have learned or are learning a lesson!! Does anyone know if this was a state law (MA) or federal law that was used for the arrest? Also, what about the state of MS; do we have such a law on the books (other than general vandalism)? I would hope so but I am not aware of any such law! Thanks for this and all the other valuable information that has been posted here. Been a Warren Co., MS resident for last 50 years but originally from Attala, a great place. Just about all my family are buried there. To those who have/are taking the time to document the various cemeteries in Attala Co.; you deserve a pat on the back and lots of words of appreciation; at least, a simple "thank you"! Billy C. Parker Vicksburg, MS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Everette Carr" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 11:22 AM Subject: [MSATTALA] Tombstone Damage > Some of you may have seen this recent article in Dick Eastman's Newsletter: > > "It seems that a commercial photographer wanted to take pictures of the tombstones. She used a powered wire brush to "buff" the area around the lettering of roughly 400 of the cemetery's oldest tombstones to improve readability. You can see a picture of some of the damaged stones at " > > http://www.atholdailynews.com/index.php?id=10004247&offset=240 > > "Upon arrest, the photographer said that she was unaware that her actions would cause damage or that there were laws against it. She stated that she was surprised that anyone would be upset by her actions. > > The woman was arrested and could face over $1 million in fines and multiple prison sentences for the damage. > > There are indications that the same woman has caused similar damage in other, nearby cemeteries in recent weeks. " > > > > Everette Carr > > List Administrator > > Attala County List > > > ==== MSATTALA Mailing List ==== > If you have genealogical information pertaining to Attala County which you would like to have on the Attala County (MSGenWeb), website, please go to http://www.rootsweb.com/~msattala/ and click on 'contact'. > >

Ever try plain ol' flour to highlight the eroded stones, photographing, then rinsing off with water, or let it rain...? . -----Original Message----- From: Gigi Tanksley [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 12:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MSATTALA] Tombstone Damage Dixie, I see it says chalk also never heard that one before. WE always just use it and wash it right off. Guess we'll have to find another way. WE used to take paper and rub across till we could read it. maybe have to go back to that. Thanks for the info, Gigi ----- Original Message ----- From: "D McMillen" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 11:50 AM Subject: RE: [MSATTALA] Tombstone Damage > This is what I have read.. > > "The shaving cream method is not recommended any more due to the acid > residue can damage the stone over a period of time. > Never use anything on a marker that is stronger than pure water to clean it. > Even when you wash off the substance, it could have gotten into crevasses > and continue to eat away from the inside out and doing a lot of damage" > > This is an interesting site with pros and cons, etc and has some links > > http://www.savinggraves.org/education/print/shavingcream.htm > > > > > ==== MSATTALA Mailing List ==== > Searching for your Attala County ancestors? Visit the Attala County Genealogy (MSGenWeb) web site at http://www.rootsweb.com/~msattala/ > > ==== MSATTALA Mailing List ==== The American Local History Network, Attala County web site can be found at http://www.usgennet.org/usa/ms/county/attala/. Its well worth a visit.

Dixie, I see it says chalk also never heard that one before. WE always just use it and wash it right off. Guess we'll have to find another way. WE used to take paper and rub across till we could read it. maybe have to go back to that. Thanks for the info, Gigi ----- Original Message ----- From: "D McMillen" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 11:50 AM Subject: RE: [MSATTALA] Tombstone Damage > This is what I have read.. > > "The shaving cream method is not recommended any more due to the acid > residue can damage the stone over a period of time. > Never use anything on a marker that is stronger than pure water to clean it. > Even when you wash off the substance, it could have gotten into crevasses > and continue to eat away from the inside out and doing a lot of damage" > > This is an interesting site with pros and cons, etc and has some links > > http://www.savinggraves.org/education/print/shavingcream.htm > > > > > ==== MSATTALA Mailing List ==== > Searching for your Attala County ancestors? Visit the Attala County Genealogy (MSGenWeb) web site at http://www.rootsweb.com/~msattala/ > >

This is what I have read.. "The shaving cream method is not recommended any more due to the acid residue can damage the stone over a period of time. Never use anything on a marker that is stronger than pure water to clean it. Even when you wash off the substance, it could have gotten into crevasses and continue to eat away from the inside out and doing a lot of damage" This is an interesting site with pros and cons, etc and has some links http://www.savinggraves.org/education/print/shavingcream.htm

Just so everyone knows a stick of chalk rubbed long ways over the stone works really well. This is what we do. Gigi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Everette Carr" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 11:22 AM Subject: [MSATTALA] Tombstone Damage > Some of you may have seen this recent article in Dick Eastman's Newsletter: > > "It seems that a commercial photographer wanted to take pictures of the tombstones. She used a powered wire brush to "buff" the area around the lettering of roughly 400 of the cemetery's oldest tombstones to improve readability. You can see a picture of some of the damaged stones at " > > http://www.atholdailynews.com/index.php?id=10004247&offset=240 > > "Upon arrest, the photographer said that she was unaware that her actions would cause damage or that there were laws against it. She stated that she was surprised that anyone would be upset by her actions. > > The woman was arrested and could face over $1 million in fines and multiple prison sentences for the damage. > > There are indications that the same woman has caused similar damage in other, nearby cemeteries in recent weeks. " > > > > Everette Carr > > List Administrator > > Attala County List > > > ==== MSATTALA Mailing List ==== > If you have genealogical information pertaining to Attala County which you would like to have on the Attala County (MSGenWeb), website, please go to http://www.rootsweb.com/~msattala/ and click on 'contact'. > >