Chrystie, Helen, Bobbye and all the beautiful Moyers/Myers (those are the good-looking genes I am sure)... Chrystie wrote: >Subject: Re: [MOYERS] More on Baptist history >Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 09:49:52 -0400 > >Katie, > >Hey, what happened to >the great postings you were doing :) I am still here. Just had more time on the long weekend than usual. Its back to busy life here. And tomorrow I am off to Vancouver to do the Vancouver Sun Run (10 km). Anyway, I did want to help you clarify the various Baptist groups, since I have just recently learned more about them myself. Chrystie, you asked: Tell me more about the "Primitive" type of Baptist. Foot washing... do you >mean they were in the rivers alot, so to speak? Helen or Bobbye, you can correct me if I am wrong. The foot washing was and is practiced by Primitive Baptists and Regular Baptists in Appalachia , but the practice also seems to go back to a German sect "The Church of the Brethren" or "Dunkards" or "German Baptists" who were also fleeing persecution in the Palatine at the same time and the Lutherans and German Reformed, and Moravians. Likely some named MYERS in all these groups. Foot washing is not baptism (which was done in the rivers), but done by the Elders on their knees to the communicants while they are sitting in church pews as preparation for communion, going back to the Last Supper of Jesus when he washed the feet of the disciples. One of the differences between the German Baptists and the others is the practice of immersion face down instead of face up (or vice versa?). Another commonality is the hymn singing, using the Psalms in acappella four part harmony, wonderful stuff. Hymns like "What Wondrous Love" and "O Thou in Whose Presence". Lutherans were big on reed organs in church (remember Bach and Buxtehude were composers for the Lutherans in the 18th century, and I can remember growing up in a German community in Wisconsin, singing "A Mighty Fortress is Our God" written by Martin Luther, to accompaniment of big pipe organ.) The Baptists did well in the frontier in the early days because they didn't require an ordained minister, but had Elders leading the meetings and performing baptisms, marriages, and funerals. They do not like being called Reverend. They were abyssmal at keeping records. I am not an expert on this, I just have been collecting some things off the internet by typing in searches on whatever church as it relates to my ancestors. I haven't done much research on the PA Dutch... does anyone know about Moravians, Amish, or other German protestant religions? Here is a bit more on the Brethren: http://www.cob-net.org/docs/groups.htm Although modern Germans principally use the transitive verb tauchen (plunge, immerse) or eintauchen (dive into), the obsolete tunken was the moniker applied to the early Brethren. The later substitution of the 'D' for the 'T' thus rendering dunken is most probably a New World innovation, which itself, later evolved into dunkard, and backward also into tunkard. Variations of Tunker and Dunker have also been used by several Brethren groups beside this Schwarzenau body (see Brethren In Christ below). In fact, a 1926 splinter group from the Church of the Brethren actually uses the label Dunkard Brethren. The 'short definition' of Tunker or Dunker applies more properly to groups associated with the method of baptism through immersion. Brethren In Christ: Early formation is not well documented. Details are unclear. Most information has been garnered from the memories of participants who did not regard dates and events with importance. Jacob Engel is universally cited in BIC literature as one of the founders who were convinced that trine immersion was the Scriptural method of baptism. Sensing alienation from the United Brethren and Mennonites over this issue, compounded by an unwillingness from several Dunker ministers to baptize outside their own circle, this group sought to establish its own identity. A tradition exists that a Dunker Elder, George Miller encouraged them to form their own group through a "mutual baptism" as was earlier performed by the Schwarzenau Brethren. This group event is thought to have occurred in the 1780's. the following is from: http://www.tegart.com/brian/bible/kjvonly/doug/aisi2_1.html An excerpt from a sermon by Charles H. Spurgeon on 1 Timothy 2:3,4, "God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." [Taken from THE METROPOLITAN TABERNACLE PULPIT, vol. 26, 1880, pp. 49-50] I haven't yet found any ancestors in the Brethren, but don't know for sure that my MYERS connection was Lutheran... Catharine MIRES was married in the Rush Creek Primitive Baptist Church 1813 (near Glade Springs VA). I can't remember if I sent you these sites on the New River area churches. Rev. John Jones, Jr. was Elder of Rush Cr. Primitive Baptist Ch. near Glade Springs VA during the years 1812-1835, and is who performed the marriage of Catharine MIRES and Moses LINDSEY (Jr). I will cut and paste what I have on him: >From "The Marriages of Washington Co. Virginia 1781-1853" 1993 by D.E. Brown (this is published by Historical Society of Washington Co. VA PO Box 484 Abingdon, VA 24212) Go to http://www.rootsweb.com/~vawashin/wchspubl.htm for information on ordering). Note, this reference has some bios of the ministers. I am not related to him, but he performed marriages for several of my LINDSEY / MYERS kin. QUOTE "John Jones, Junr. Baptist. In the Widners Valley community of Washington County, near the intersection of routes 605 and 733, there stands a truly historic landmark. It is Rush Creek Primitive Baptist Church of Christ, one of the few surviving examples of an old-time log meeting house. John Jones, Jr. ("Junr." in the old records) was the first pastor there. "His father, John Sr., may have come to our areas as early as 1774. Summers implies that he was from Germany but this seems unlikely. Historical Society files state that he was from Wilkes County, North Carolina and whereas this is more probable, it lacks proof. John Jr. married Patience Main on 18 July 1802. She was the daughter of Sebeus or Sabeers Main who died in Washington County in 1809. Together John and Patience were among the charter members of Rush Creek Church. "Marriages by John Jones, Jr. are found as early as 1812 and continue through 1835. Rush Creek Church is said to have been built in 1822 and he may have served elsewhere during an earlier period of his ministry or the church may actually be older. "John Jones , Sr. died about 1825 and John the preacher dropped the "Junr." from his name at that time. Patience Jones died sometime between 1825 and 1828. John remarried Elizabeth and whereas her maiden name is not know, she is said to have been a Cole. John Jones, Jr. died in 1836 leaving his rather large estate, including a brick dwelling house, to his widow, daughter, and grandchildren. Neither the grave of John Jones nor the graves of either of his wives have been found." End QUOTE Ref: Washington County, Virginia Will Book 5, P. 276 and Will Book 7, p. 111; Washington County, Virginia Deed Book 2, p. 344, Deed Book 3, pp. 132, 345, and 391, Deed Book 4, pp. 101, 418, and 433, Deed Book 7, p. 496; Defriece, pp. 16-32; Summers, pp. 104 and 813; Historical Society family files. ____________________ Rush Creek Primitive Baptist (Glade Spring/Lodi VA) For map go to http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.asp?S=11&T=2&X=1089&Y=10155&Z=17&W= 2 ____________________ Rush Creek Primitive Baptist Church (current day info) Rush Creek Primitive Baptist Church, Glade Springs, Washington County, Virginia Organized in 1812 Pastors, Elders T. Eugene Blevins, Billy K. Cook, and Curt Heath. Meeting times: 3rd Sunday at 10:30 a.m., and Saturday before at 6 p.m. Communion meeting, 3rd Sunday in June at 10:00 a.m. Directions: From I-81, Glade Spring exit (Exit 11), follow Virginia Route 91 South to Lodi, Virginia, turn left on 731 and follow to the end of the road (2 1/2 miles), turn left on route 605 to the Church approximately 2 1/2 miles on the right. ______________ Summary of Southwest VA Church history sites: http://www.area-net.com/churches.htm (current day list of churches) http://www.ls.net/~newriver/nrv/mtnunion.htm http://members.aol.com/jweaver303/pb/scb.htm (history of The St. Clair's Bottom District Primitive Baptist Association ) http://www.ls.net/~newriver/va/washpba.htm (History of the Washington District Regular Primitive Baptist Association 1811-1951) http://www.ls.net/~newriver/swva/hssv-23.htm#scpba Historical Sketches of Southwest Virginia, Publication 23 - 1989 (gives beliefs of Prim. Baptists) Hope this helps someone. Katie (gggg granddaughter of Caty Myers Lindsey) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Katie, Thanks for the great reading material - printing this stuff out right now. And good luck on the 10k run! Make sure you return and wow, we were lucky you found us! We needed new material out here. I think it helped jumpstart all of us again. Chrystie MYERS BROOKOVER, COWGER, KRABAL, MOYERS, MYRES, SWECKER --------------------------- # --------------------------- Rootsweb List Administrator - [email protected] Homestead for MYERS GENEALOGY.COM at: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~chrystiem/myersfam.html