This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/WMB.2ACE/4764.2 Message Board Post: Dear Dave, Not sure that getting a copy of the civil record of the marriage would help but see following for information http://genealogyinstlouis.accessgenealogy.com/recorder.htm#marr A church record might have more information such as the name of the parents. Were they Catholic or Church of England? Catholic Church records were microfilmed by the Mormon church. You might want to look at Dave Lossos' website which has a lot of genealogical "stuff" regarding St. Louis City and County. http://genealogyinstlouis.accessgenealogy.com/ As well as the ST. Louis Public Library: http://www.slpl.lib.mo.us/libsrc/geneinfo.htm You might want to ask the public library about the marriage record first, It would be less expensive. St. Louis County Library: http://www.slcl.lib.mo.us/slcl/sc/res-pro.htm The family appears on the 1860 census in the 8th district? Ben R Crunden 41 b. England Mary 34 b. England Fred (?) male 14 b. England Frank male 1 b. Missouri Mary appears on the 1880 census with sons Fred and Frank. Census shows that Fred was born in England but Frank was born in Missouri. Mary was born in England as was her mother; father born in Wales. No Benjamin with family. Found Mary, Fred and Frank on the 1870 census. No Benjamin. So Benjamin either died between the two censuses or left the family. Cannot find Mary or Frank on the 1900 census but Frank is most likely mistranscribed since he appears on the 1910 census. You might want to take a look at the city directories that are available at the SL Public Library as well as checking the index for obits. If you request any items from the library, group your requests separately-all obits in one email, all city directories in another. Seems odd that the oldest son was born in England but that Benjamin and Mary married here unless they didn't get married in England or they married outside of the church and wanted to get married in church when they were in St. Louis. Since you are in England, can you tell me how to find Catholic churches in England, some where around Yorkshire-not real sure about this. Georgia