Ms. Carver, After reading your last e-mail that you to sent to this site, I asked myself "did I rant and rave." I thought not but I decided to look at the definition for each term. Therefore .... re: ".... your rants and raves either." rant - to talk in a noisy, excited, or declamatory manner - to scold vehemently (Merriam-Webster) rave - to talk irrationally in or as if in delirium - to speak out wildly (Merriam-Webster) .... I still do not think that I ranted and raved. I looked at each individual e-mail that I submitted to the St. Francois Co., Mo. web site and here is a synopsis of the thrust of each message. From: "n sam hill" <nsamhill@charter.net> To: <mostfran@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 12:50 PM Subject: Re: [MOSTFRAN] Sam Hildebrand I stated that I thought it was inappropriate for any individual today to condone or condemn the actions of Sam Hildebrand because at best they are basing their judgment of existing narrative that was probably written almost 150 years ago. In fact, Ms. Carver, you applauded my response to an earlier e-mail to which I made comment. From: mostfran-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mostfran-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ruth Carver Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 5:34 PM To: mostfran@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MOSTFRAN] Sam Hildebrand n sam hill, well spoken by someone who knows not the facts, I must say. My guess is that some of us whose knew out great grandparents who in turn knew Sam personally know many more facts than most. Ruth Earlier today you thought that I was on the right track but now you feel like that "(you or me) finds all this Sam Hildebrand stuff boring .... Your are quick to complain when you have said nothing either" I think not that I have not added to the commentary being made about Sam Hildebrand. First of all, I made a comment to which you approved and is stated above. (1) do not condone or condemn if you were not there and only are speaking from second hand narrative. Then I went back to the list after another e-mail was posted and I made the following statement of which I paraphrased below. ----- Original Message ----- From: n sam hill To: mostfran@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 6:42 PM Subject: re: Sam Hildebrand (2) Sam Hildebrand's exploits were done in the past. It appears that he began circa 1861 and continued until 1872 when he was shot and killed in Illinois. I basically said to those who descend from Sam Hildebrand and those that seem to be enamored of his exploits you have had your say about the man but you are not adding any genealogical information and this web site is for genealogical research purpose and not just idle chatter about what you think or feel about the man or the events over a century plus ago. Then Ms. Carver, you came back with the following submission. From: Ruth Carver To: mostfran@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [MOSTFRAN] Sam Hildebrand Thank you Larry. I wonder what we would do if our mother and brother were burned out of their home and then the young brother later hanged for no good reason other than hatred. Ruth To me that it appeared that the supporters of Sam Hildebrand or maybe just yourself wanted to go and on about this subject but not in a genealogical manner. I surmised that maybe with the cold weather most of the nation is experiencing that the submitters had nothing better to do that post prater about this subject Therefore, I made my last comment on the subject. Read below and once again paraphrased. ----- Original Message ----- From: n sam hill To: mostfran@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 9:23 PM Subject: re: [MOSTFRAN] Sam Hildebrand (3) This subject is getting boring and redundant. Why continue to beat a dead horse. Sam Hildebrand's life and exploits are published and if one cannot find any of the books then go to the St. Francois Co., Mo. website and read all 37 Chapters plus many additional articles about the man, his life and his exploits. That is when you took offense (see your e-mail below). If go back to the beginning of this e-mail and look at the definitions of rant and rave, then Ms. Carver to me it appears that you have chose to act in such manner or a close approximation thereof. The bottom line is that I learned a long time ago, vos can't oro per stultus. Therefore this dialogus ecce defunctus. Pardon my French, it has been awhile since I attended class. To those who have followed along and been subjected to all of this deliramentum, ad nauseum, ad infinitum I apologize. I am done. Fini. No matter who posts what about Sam Hildebrand or myself, I shall not correspondre. Nathaniel S. Hill ----- Original Message ----- From: Ruth Carver To: mostfran@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [MOSTFRAN] Sam Hildebrand Excuse me, but I saw not one iota of genealogical information in your rants and raves either. Yes, you may very well be the only person who finds all this Sam Hildebrand stuff boring, why did you bother to add to the mix? Your are quick to complain when you have said nothing either. PLEASE!! ----- Original Message ----- From: n sam hill To: mostfran@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 9:23 PM Subject: re: [MOSTFRAN] Sam Hildebrand Am I the only person who finds all this Sam Hildebrand discussion to be getting boring? None of the e-mails regarding the supporters or those enamored by Sam Hildebrand's exploits has one iota of genealogical information in it. You can find all you probably need to or want to know on the St. Francois Co., Mo. web site. All the rest of these e-mails are to me just the prattling of descendents of Sam trying to defend his actions I assume or supporters of Sam actions. Give it a rest. Please. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ruth Carver To: mostfran@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [MOSTFRAN] Sam Hildebrand Thank you Larry. I wonder what we would do if our mother and brother were burned out of their home and then the young brother later hanged for no good reason other than hatred. Ruth ----- Original Message ----- From: n sam hill To: mostfran@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 6:39 PM Subject: re: To the descendents of Sam Hildebrand or those in the present that are enamored by his activities I say - "Is nought good a slepying hound to wake" - Geoffrey Chaucer Troillus and Criseyde (1374) Note: It's considered an English proverb that probably predated Chaucer. "Let sleeping dogs lie" - Robert Walpole (1676-1745) let sleeping dogs lie - (idiomatic) To leave things as they are; especially, to avoid restarting or rekindling an old argument; to leave disagreements in the past. ".. Get over it Get over it It's gotta stop sometime, so why don't you quit Get over it, get over it .. " Eagles - "Hell Freezes Over" tour - live in 1994 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry & Shelly Hale" <lshr@charter.net> To: <mostfran@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [MOSTFRAN] Sam Hildebrand Sam Hildebrand did nothing more than stand up for his family. "I make no apology to mankind for my acts of retaliation; I make no whining appeal to the world for sympathy. I sought revenge and I found it; the key of hell was not suffered to rust in the lock while I was on the war path." Larry -----Original Message----- From: mostfran-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mostfran-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ruth Carver Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 5:34 PM To: mostfran@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MOSTFRAN] Sam Hildebrand n sam hill, well spoken by someone who knows not the facts, I must say. My guess is that some of us whose knew out great grandparents who in turn knew Sam personally know many more facts than most. Ruth ----- Original Message ----- From: "n sam hill" <nsamhill@charter.net> To: <mostfran@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 12:50 PM Subject: Re: [MOSTFRAN] Sam Hildebrand "Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth" - Mathew 5:38 KJV but reading on .. "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also" - Mathew 5:39 KJV I am not thumping the Bible or passing judgment but history has recorded a lot of information about Sam Hildebrand and his exploits. Even on the St. Francois Co., Mo. genealogical web site, there are quite a few terms discussing the merits of Sam Hildebrand. "Following many requests, the Farmington News Printing Co. is undertaking to again publish 'Sam HILDEBRAND's Confession'. The book was written and edited in 1870 by Dr. A. Wendell KEITH and James W. EVANS. The book contained the 'confession' of one of Missouri and St. Francois County's most colorful characters: Sam HILDEBRAND. "HILDEBRAND - more commonly referred to as 'the Missouri Bushwhacker' - was killed at the age of 36. In those short years he lived a full life that took him through the Civil War and into skirmish after skirmish with many of his own people" Who was Sam Hildebrand in reality? Only those at the time knew some of the facts. Historical accounts were made, but were taken from other narrative or first hand accounts that is a major question. I think it is foolish for anyone not familiar with the time, place and participants to make judgment on this man or his actions. I would disagree with anyone who states that "He was right in his actions for seeking revenge in the way that he did." That is a statement being made by a person who neither was there at the time of the incidents or has full knowledge of what took place and is making a capricious statement when they know not the fact. s.n.h. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joyce D Wafford To: dhl.ell@sbcglobal.net ; mostfran@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [MOSTFRAN] Parkview Cemetery Thank you, Darryl. I applaud you for speaking up on this man's behalf. What he and his family endured was horrible. He was right in his actions for seeking revenge in the way that he did. Joyce Nash-Wafford ----- Original Message ----- From: <dhl.ell@sbcglobal.net> To: <mostfran@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [MOSTFRAN] Parkview Cemetery Donald, Please be cautious about referring to my GR GR Grandfather as "unsavory". Have you read his Biography? Are you aware what the Unions Army did to his family prior to him seeking revenge? Regards. Darryl Lawson From: Donald Yeager <donaldyeager@charter.net> Subject: Re: [MOSTFRAN] Parkview Cemetery To: mostfran@rootsweb.com Date: Tuesday, December 7, 2010, 5:19 PM There are two cemeteries besides Parkview that I want to do this next year. One of them I already had on my list was the Hampton Cemetery in Elvins (Now Park Hills) and the other is the oddfellows in Farmington. The Hampton has a couple of unsavory fellows buried there. One well known in this area is Sam Hildebrand from the Civil War era. Have to go eat. Donald Yeager