Hi Goldie & Kirsteen Thank you both for your the help. I tried the Libindex and no luck there. On the 1851 census she was living at the Mill of Garmouth, Her name is Helen ELLIS (ROBERTSON) b abt 1790 Duffus, Moray. One of her sons was married in 1856 and it stated that she was deceased. I would like to find out who her parents are and have found purchasing birth certificates for that erra I never seem to get a lot of information off them so I thought I would go with a death instead. Dipped out there too lol!! Please excuse my ignorance but what is Mort cloth/bell rentals? Thanks. Alison ----- Original Message ----- From: "Goldie & Lido Doratti" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [MORAY] Death Certificate > You won't get it.......where was she when she died?.......you need the > film > for that area, and YOU might get lucky and find some mort cloth/bell > rentals > on it.....which would give you the date of the rental. It's been my > experience they weren't held long, so likely two days back would be the > ABT > time of death. > Would be nice if we could ask for what isn't there, lots of us would jump > on > the wagon!! BEFORE 1855 is not a possibility for a cert., after would be > more probable. Go with the flow and accept the '51 census and run with > that, or a cert for one of her children AFTER '55. Good luck.Goldie >

> Thank you both for your the help. I tried the Libindex and no > luck there. If she is not in LIBINDX then there is very little chance of there being a gravestone, because all burial grounds in Moray (the present version, not the County of Moray) were surveyed in 1978/9 and the results are part of LIBINDX. > On the 1851 census she was living at the Mill of Garmouth, Her > name is > Helen ELLIS (ROBERTSON) b abt 1790 Duffus, Moray. One of her > sons was > married in 1856 and it stated that she was deceased. > I would like to find > out who her parents are and have found purchasing birth > certificates for > that erra I never seem to get a lot of information off them That's because they are not birth certificates. Until 1854 the only information about births is what is in the parish registers of baptisms. > so I thought I > would go with a death instead. Dipped out there too lol!! Same thing. There was no official recording of deaths until 1855. > Please excuse my ignorance but what is Mort cloth/bell > rentals? The parish would have had a mortcloth, or possibly more than one, which was hired to cover the coffin during the funeral. For this, and for the tolling of a bell, there would be a fee which went into the parish coffers, and helped to provide money for the support of the poor. http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/famrec/hlpsrch/opr-cov.html contains details of surviving Church of Scotland parish registers held by the General Register Office for Scotland. This tells me that there are records of burials in the parish of Speymouth between 1820 and 1854, but not for the parish of Urquhart. There are projects to index the burials in the old parish registers, but so far as I am aware, none is complete and there are no CDs available as yet. However, even if you do find a burial record, or a pre-1855 death record of any kind, it is not going to tell you the names of her parents. HTH Anne

Anne, I have always thought that a mort cloth was just what you described...until a recent exchange on the "Aberdeen list" on more or less the same subject. There the ever-so-authoritative Gavin Bell suggested that its origins were as a cover for the dead body where there was no coffin. For the first time I saw a purpose to it. No doubt it was also used as an over-coffin drape Tom Graham >> Thank you both for your the help. I tried the Libindex and no >> luck there. > If she is not in LIBINDX then there is very little chance of > there being a gravestone, because all burial grounds in Moray > (the present version, not the County of Moray) were surveyed in > 1978/9 and the results are part of LIBINDX. > >> On the 1851 census she was living at the Mill of Garmouth, Her >> name is >> Helen ELLIS (ROBERTSON) b abt 1790 Duffus, Moray. One of her >> sons was >> married in 1856 and it stated that she was deceased. > >> I would like to find >> out who her parents are and have found purchasing birth >> certificates for >> that erra I never seem to get a lot of information off them > That's because they are not birth certificates. Until 1854 the > only information about births is what is in the parish > registers of baptisms. > >> so I thought I >> would go with a death instead. Dipped out there too lol!! > Same thing. There was no official recording of deaths until > 1855. > >> Please excuse my ignorance but what is Mort cloth/bell >> rentals? > The parish would have had a mortcloth, or possibly more than > one, which was hired to cover the coffin during the funeral. For > this, and for the tolling of a bell, there would be a fee which > went into the parish coffers, and helped to provide money for > the support of the poor. > > http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/famrec/hlpsrch/opr-cov.html > contains details of surviving Church of Scotland parish > registers held by the General Register Office for Scotland. This > tells me that there are records of burials in the parish of > Speymouth between 1820 and 1854, but not for the parish of > Urquhart. > > There are projects to index the burials in the old parish > registers, but so far as I am aware, none is complete and there > are no CDs available as yet. > > However, even if you do find a burial record, or a pre-1855 > death record of any kind, it is not going to tell you the names > of her parents. > > HTH > > Anne > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content > by the SmallWorld MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > --------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the SmallWorld MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ---------------------------------------------------------------