Still plugging away with my Calder family from Nairn (descendents of James Calder / Katharine MacCurrach (sic)) and am now working on their great-granddaughter, Helen Rose. Helen Rose married Alexander Pirie / Pirrie in 1851 Auldearn, Nairn. Alexander's parents were William Pirie and Isabella Watson. This family (Pirie) in Enzie, Banff; William a crofter there. According to the death records found at sp, both William Pirrie and Isabella Watson died in Enzie but Rathven is included in parenthesis. Would the proper entry for place of death read "RATHVEN, ENZIE, BANFF" or "ENZIE, RATHVEN, BANFF"? I am guessing Rathven first but I am unfamiliar with Banff (this is the first of my research interests who located to or were from this area)?

> Would the proper entry for place of death read "RATHVEN, > ENZIE, BANFF" > or > "ENZIE, RATHVEN, BANFF"? I am guessing Rathven first but I am > unfamiliar > with Banff (this is the first of my research interests who > located to or > were from this area)? That's not a straightforward question. The parish of Enzie overlaps with both Rathven and Bellie, and the boundaries don't seem to have been constant over time, so there is no 'correct' answer. Fullarton's Gazetteer says that Enzie was erected as a quoad sacra parish out of Rathven and Bellie in 1836. 'Quoad sacra' means that it was a parish only so far as religious matters were concerned, but from 1855 to 1936 it was also a registration district for civil registration of births, marriages and deaths. So as far as statutory certificates are concerned, Enzie and Rathven were mutually exclusive. See Gavin Bell's account of the historical geography of Enzie at http://www.abdnet.co.uk/genuki/BAN/Enzie/index.html for fuller details. I generally duck the issue by recording it simply as 'Enzie, Banffshire'. If you want to include Rathven, I'd suggest that it would come between Enzie and Banffshire rather than before Enzie, as Enzie is only part of Rathven rather than the other way round. Anne

I'm interested in Katharine McCurrach....I have a McCurrach family from Enzie as well........Helen/Ellen McLeod m Wm McCurrach23 Jun 1854. I am wondering if there is a connection between Wm and Katharine? Goldie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sherry" <wiccanpt2@netzero.net> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 8:35 AM Subject: [MORAY] Enzie or Rathven or both > Still plugging away with my Calder family from Nairn (descendents of James > Calder / Katharine MacCurrach (sic)) and am now working on their > great-granddaughter, Helen Rose. > > Helen Rose married Alexander Pirie / Pirrie in 1851 Auldearn, Nairn. > > Alexander's parents were William Pirie and Isabella Watson. This family > (Pirie) in Enzie, Banff; William a crofter there. > > According to the death records found at sp, both William Pirrie and > Isabella > Watson died in Enzie but Rathven is included in parenthesis. > > Would the proper entry for place of death read "RATHVEN, ENZIE, BANFF" or > "ENZIE, RATHVEN, BANFF"? I am guessing Rathven first but I am unfamiliar > with Banff (this is the first of my research interests who located to or > were from this area)? > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MORAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Sherry wrote: > >Would the proper entry for place of death read "RATHVEN, ENZIE, BANFF" or >"ENZIE, RATHVEN, BANFF"? > Neither! Whatever we make of the "Enzie" and "Rathven" dimensions (of which more below) the first thing to say is that neither Enzie nor Rathven are in "Banff" - they are in BanffSHIRE. "Banff" is the name of a Royal Burgh and also the name of a parish which includes the town and a relatively small area of the surrounding countryside. Along with some 20-odd other parishes, they are grouped together to form the County known as Banffshire. This distinction between town, parish and county is really a very easy (and fairly important!) one to grasp, but one that seemsto elude the creators of the IGI who consistently spread confusion by using the one name "Banff" to refer to all three. As regards Enzie and Rathven, I would refer you to my attempts to disentangle these at: http://www.abdnet.co.uk/genuki/BAN/Rathven/index.html http://www.abdnet.co.uk/genuki/BAN/Enzie/index.html http://www.abdnet.co.uk/genuki/BAN/Bellie/index.html On each of these pages, click on the link for "Historical Geography" for the general background and see also "Census" and "Church Records" for the small print of some of the archival implications. Depending on precisely when your ancestors were where, you may find that they need to be listed as living in "Enzie, Banffshire", "Enzie, Moray" or "Rathven, Banffshire". Gavin Bell

Sherry wrote: >... > >Would the proper entry for place of death read "RATHVEN, ENZIE, BANFF" or >"ENZIE, RATHVEN, BANFF"? > >... > > As well as the links I previously posted about Enzie/Rathven, I should also have mentioned: http://www.abdnet.co.uk/genuki/BAN/countyandparish.html This gives some overall background to the apparent muddle in the parishes, and some (fictitious, but entirely possible) examples of how these oddities can affect the archival records of people who lived there. Gavin Bell

Sherry, A delayed action response to your various postings about Calders. I wonder if you would recognise this Calder? Isabella Calder gave birth to a daughter, Mary, in 1797 in Bellie parish.She was given the surname Kemp as she was said to be a daughter of a soldier, William Kemp. I have a note that suggests Isabella died post-1855 and that her birthplace was given as Rathven.(Should have checked that out before responding to you;sorry.) Mary later married Francis Jamieson , also in Bellie, and died there in may 1881. Could Isabella be one of your Calder family? Tom C. Graham > Still plugging away with my Calder family from Nairn (descendents of James > Calder / Katharine MacCurrach (sic)) and am now working on their > great-granddaughter, Helen Rose. > > Helen Rose married Alexander Pirie / Pirrie in 1851 Auldearn, Nairn. > > Alexander's parents were William Pirie and Isabella Watson. This family > (Pirie) in Enzie, Banff; William a crofter there. > > According to the death records found at sp, both William Pirrie and > Isabella > Watson died in Enzie but Rathven is included in parenthesis. > > Would the proper entry for place of death read "RATHVEN, ENZIE, BANFF" or > "ENZIE, RATHVEN, BANFF"? I am guessing Rathven first but I am unfamiliar > with Banff (this is the first of my research interests who located to or > were from this area)? > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MORAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content > by the SmallWorld MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > --------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the SmallWorld MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ---------------------------------------------------------------