Ann and Robin, Thanks for your reply. I did consider illegitimicy but presumed that the parents were married because, on Isabella's marriage certificate, her mother is given as Isabella Rhind, m.s. Fraser, ditto on her death certificate. The other thing that made me think of the possibility of 2 Alexander Rhinds being bakers (though unlikely) was that her father was said to be deceased in 1887, the year of her marriage, when I know that my Alexander Rhind was very much alive in 1891 census and on to his 3rd marriage, this time to his cousin, Marjory Rhind. He didn't die until 1914, aged 78. However, I do take on board that Isabella might have been illegitimate and this would explain why I can find no records on Scotland's People. I presume that, for decency, Isabella was called Rhind and, since Alexander went to Aberdeen, it might have been easier to presume him to be dead. Anne, I would very much appreciate the 1861 census reference to Isabella Fraser. I had a look at the I.G.I. entry and it certainly fits, but I have no information about where she lived on her birth. The family who are her descendants say that she was born in Lossiemouth and that she was brought up in same household as Ramsay MacDonald. In the 1871 census it states: Isabella Ramsay, head, 60 years old, dressmaker, born Elgin Annie Ramsay, daughter, 22, dressmaker, b. Elgin Isabella Rhind, boarder, 10, scholar, b. Lossiemouth James MacDonald, grandson, 4, b. Lossiemouth. Unfortunately I don't have an address for this census entry as I got this info. from the family of Isabella. Regards, Linda > From: "Anne Burgess" <anne.burgess@btinternet.com> > Date: 2005/02/20 Sun PM 10:25:45 GMT > To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [MORAY] Bakers in Lossie 1860 > > > Can anyone guide me on finding a list of bakers in Lossiemouth/Drainie in > > 1860s? Alexander Rhind, born 1837, married Margaret Thomson in 1861 and > > > was a baker in Drainie at that time. I'm sure he was a bachelor on > > marriage > > certificate. However, Isabella Rhind, born around 1860 in Lossie, had > > parents > Alexander Rhind, baker, and Isabella Fraser. I cannot find > > Isabella's birth > > record nor marriage of Alexr. and Isabella. but on Isabella's marriage and > > death certificate her parents are clearly Alexr. and Isabella. It would > > seem odd > that there were 2 Alexanders who were bakers in same place at > > same time > > but Isabella's birth doesn't tie in with Alexr. who married Margaret. > > Isabella, in > 1871 census, lived in same house as young Ramsay McDonald, > > the future > > p.m., as a 10 year old boarder. Alexr., the baker, was in Aberdeen by this > > time. > > Hello Linda > > Have you considered that Isabella could have been illegitimate? > > I suggest that you have a look at the birth certificate of Isabella Fraser, > daughter of Isabella Fraser, born in Drainie 2 March 1861, no father named > on birth certificate if the IGI is to be believed. > > Then let me have a note of the exact address where she was born and I'll > have a look in the 1861 census for her. > > Anne > > > > > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > Don't forget that if you delete a message, you can always visit the archives of this list http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MORAY/. The archives are also worth looking at, whether you be a new or established lister. > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > >