> Thanks for your reply. I did consider illegitimicy but presumed that the > parents > were married because, on Isabella's marriage certificate, her > mother is given > as Isabella Rhind, m.s. Fraser, ditto on her death > certificate. She would not be the first one to tell a little fib to hide the stigma of illegitimacy, especially if she married far enough from home for no-one to know the truth! > The other thing > that made me think of the possibility of 2 Alexander Rhinds being bakers > (though unlikely) was that her father was said to be deceased in 1887, the > year > of her marriage, when I know that my Alexander Rhind was very much > alive in > 1891 census and on to his 3rd marriage, this time to his cousin, Marjory > Rhind. > He didn't die until 1914, aged 78. > However, I do take on board that Isabella might have been illegitimate and > this > would explain why I can find no records on Scotland's People. I > presume that, > for decency, Isabella was called Rhind and, since > Alexander went to > Aberdeen, it might have been easier to presume him to be dead. Possibly. It may also be that Isabella let it be known that Alexander Rhind was the father - it was fairly common to do this, even if the errant dad had declined to sign the birth certificate. > Anne, I would very much appreciate the 1861 census reference to Isabella > Fraser. I had a look at the I.G.I. entry and it certainly fits, but I have > no > information about where she lived on her birth. As I said, her birth certificate will tell you the exact address where she was born. If you get this and let me know, I can find that address fairly easily. The 1861 census isn't indexed and without that information it would take a while to search the whole thing. > The family who are her descendants say that she was born in Lossiemouth > and that she was brought up in same household as Ramsay MacDonald. In the > > 1871 census it states: > Isabella Ramsay, head, 60 years old, dressmaker, born Elgin > Annie Ramsay, daughter, 22, dressmaker, b. Elgin > Isabella Rhind, boarder, 10, scholar, b. Lossiemouth > James MacDonald, grandson, 4, b. Lossiemouth. > Unfortunately I don't have an address for this census entry as I got this > info. > from the family of Isabella. I could get that one because I know exactly where Ramsay Macdonald was born (Gregory Place) in 1867. There's a plaque outside commemorating the occasion! Best wishes Anne