Gavin, Boy, do I have egg on my face. I can't believe I didn't even notice the date problem!!!! Thanks so much for pointing it out to me. I will take another look at this. I have John Abel's marriage certificate (from the online GRO) which showed the parent names and got the marriage information for John's parents from the online LDS site. Also got the 1841 and 1851 census data from two online sites. I have the 1881 census disks from the LDS. I will go back and trace my steps. Thanks so much for the suggestion of death certificate. I only get to obtain information from Scotlands People a few times a year and I need to make a list of all the items to look at so I get the most use of my "time period". Appreciate your help Gavin. -Barbara