This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jeanbarker52 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.mor.general/1367.1.1.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: hi barbara so your name when i went on here so thought i would look i am still lookingfor marjorie stronach who married william winchester have you had any luck on this one. let us know. will email you laterand will write this down, our family is getting bigger and bigger.bye for now. .......jean......... Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

To all the people who responded with ideas and information Thank you. I will try contacting the churches for more information. I have a death for a woman in Forres that I can't find on Scotlandspeople but I do have the date from a newspaper account. I know that some children weren't baptised so I thought that some may also have missed out on having their births registered. Thank you all again. Leonie NSW

In some cases, it is a matter of indexing. I have a direct ancestor who's death I could not find on scotlandspeople, but someone who works at a LDS Family History Center found it. The surname had been mis-transcribed for the index. You can try scotlandspeople support. Give them the name and date and they should be able to find it for you. -- Jo-Ann -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Leonie Oliver" <gloliver@bigpond.net.au> > > To all the people who responded with ideas and information > Thank you. > I will try contacting the churches for more information. > I have a death for a woman in Forres that I can't find on Scotlandspeople > but I do have the date from a newspaper account. > I know that some children weren't baptised so I thought that some may also > have missed out on having their births registered. > Thank you all again. > Leonie > NSW

Thanks, Anne and Jo-Ann, for your help in locating these places. Alison near Glasgow -- "The only thing worse than not reading a book in the last ninety days is not reading a book in the last ninety days and thinking that it doesn't matter." - Jim Rohn

I reckon it's Saltershill - split between two lines. http://www.geograph.org.uk/browse.php?p=780674 Anne

Alison asks if anyone has an interest in the PAUL surname in the Rafford or Forres area. I have a William Paul, thanks to the marriage in 1824 of his daughter Jane to my relative William Laing, Merchant in and Provost of Forres. William Paul was a Farmer and Distiller in Kilnflat, parish of Rafford. His father John Paul had founded the Glenburgie Distillery in 1810 (still there today, I believe) at the Mill at Kilnflat while at the same time also farming land at Kilnflat. His son William greatly enlarged the Distillery and also expanded his farming activities by adding the farms at Smith's Croft, Bogharberry, Mains of Burgie and land at KIlbuiack. In the 1851 Census he appears at Kilnflat as "Distiller and Farmer of 360 acres employing 14 men" In the "Book of Burgie" it states that the then Laird of Burgie wrote of William in 1843 :- "He appears to be one of most respectable tenants, and certainly the most wealthy, I have." William's father John had married an Ann Innes. Is this a connection to the subject of this thread? Alastair MacDonald

I will send the image to anyone who wishes it. Drainie Marriages 1804 Feb 11 John McDONALD and Isobel JACK, both in this parish were matrimonially contracted and married at S?, the 22nd of February MY NOTE: the place name looks like the session clerk started to write a place, beginning with S, and then switched to "this" with possibly the word "date" on the following line. May 19 William McHENDRY, parish of Urquhart, and Helen ROSS in the parish of Drainy were matrimonially contracted, and married the 2nd of June. July 7 Mr. Peter DURNO, Schoolmaster of Drainy, was matrimonially contracted with Miss Helen GRAY, End of Longacre, parish of St. Nicholas, Aberdeen & married at Aberdeen, 36th July 1804 Witnesses: John Karrack & William Gray July 7 David SUTHERLAND, Ballgreen, parish of Drainy, & Agnes MELLIS, Bishopmill, New Spynie, were matrimonially contracted & married the 14th of July Aug 10 Alexander WINCHESTER, Cullielaw, and Christian BRODIE in the Green, both in this parish, were matrimonially contracted and married the 18th of Dec Also included on this page April 15 1801 James TAYLOR in Little Drainy in this parish and Jean LAING in Pitgaveny, parish of St. Andrews were matrimonially contracted and married this date. -- Jo-Ann Croft

> You can see the location of Ettles on the Roy Military Thanks. I see that there are (H)ogston, Ettles and Newlands, all quite close and all missing from the modern maps. (H)ogston and Ettles are also missing from the 1881 census, but Newlands is listed. Unless one or other of them has been renamed Sweethillock, which isn't named on the Roy map, they seem to have vanished fairly early on. They may even be under what is now RAF Lossiemouth, like Smithfield and North Greens are. > And, Anne, on this map it is spelled Stotfould. Yes. Could even be Stotfauld. Wikipedia has an article citing various spellings and suggesting that its name is of English origin, bestowed on it by Angles who sttled there in the time of King David I. Matheson, who is not regarded as the most reliable authority, suggests that it is a comparatively modern name, from Scandinavian 'stoat', which he says is a general Scandinavian word for an animal. Certainly a stot is a young ox or steer in modern usage. Not quite the same as modern stoat. Interesting. Anne

Alison, You can see the location of Ettles on the Roy Military map on the National Library site. http://www.nls.uk/maps/roy/index.html Click on the gazetteer link, then input Moray, then Drainie, then Plewlands. Select the one in Moray. When the map comes up zoom in until you can easily read the words and then use the righthand arrow to go directly east. You will see Oggstown and then Ettles. And, Anne, on this map it is spelled Stotfould. -- Jo-Ann Croft -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: ACSpring <acspring@gmail.com> > > Although I don't need the image as obviously there isn't any other > information in the entry, the first one having Alexander Paul as a witness > caught my eye, as my Pauls were in Drainie round about that time, although > in Ettles, I think. Not sure where Plewland would be in relation to that. > Anyone else out there with an interest in the surname PAUL in Drainie, > Elgin, New Spynie, Rafford or Forres (or anywhere nearby)? > > Thanks, Jo-Ann, for posting these. > > Alison > near Glasgow > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MORAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of > the message

> in Ettles, I think. Not sure where Plewland would be in > relation to that. Plewland(s) is a large farm in the western part of the parish, nearer Hopeman (in the parish of Duffus) than Lossiemouth (parish of Drainie). I have yet to find out where Ettles is/was. It doesn't appear on modern maps, and it is not listed as an address in the 1881 census. Anne

> Drainie Baptisms 1777 > Aug 29 James Edward in Stotford > Sept 1 Alexander Findlay in Stotford > Dec 28 William Buckie in Stotford Now those are very interesting. My first reaction was that it must be 'Stotfield' in bad handwriting. Stotfield is just west of Lossiemouth and mainly famous for the 'Stotfield Disaster' of 25 December 1806, when all three of the village's fishing boats were lost along with all the able-bodied men and youths. But while it could be argued that the original is 'Stotfold' it is quite clearly '..fo..' nor '..fie..' in the original. So it seems that there has been quite a change in the name of the village. Either way, I've always thought it was an odd name for a village where the main occupation was fishing rather than farming! Anne

Although I don't need the image as obviously there isn't any other information in the entry, the first one having Alexander Paul as a witness caught my eye, as my Pauls were in Drainie round about that time, although in Ettles, I think. Not sure where Plewland would be in relation to that. Anyone else out there with an interest in the surname PAUL in Drainie, Elgin, New Spynie, Rafford or Forres (or anywhere nearby)? Thanks, Jo-Ann, for posting these. Alison near Glasgow

> Thank you very much John and Anne. It seems that an Innes > family was running a > local alehouse. Possibly, but I am not sure it's inevitable. It could be a variation of an older name with an entirely different meaning. I certainly would not bet on it. > I am assuming that Alexander & James Innes were relatives of > Margaret. Much more likely. Anne

Thank you very much John and Anne. It seems that an Innes family was running a local alehouse. I am assuming that Alexander & James Innes were relatives of Margaret. -- Jo-Ann Croft -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Anne Burgess" <anne.burgess@btinternet.com> > > > Attached is the OPR image. It is the first entry on the page. > > Thank you for your help. > > Jo-Ann Croft > > It's our old friend Overalehouse! > > See > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/th/read/MORAY/2004-07/1089982345 > I am puzzled that the subsequent correspondence is not there. > > Overalehouse is marked on the 1874 six-inch Ordnance Survey map. > If you go to > http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/153889 then down to the bottom > of the page and click on OS Get-a-Map, you will see Kinneddar. > Overalehouse was south of Kinneddar, on the west side of the > road just north of where the field boundary (thin black line on > the map) meets the road. There's nothing there now - I went to > look after it cropped up before. > > Anne ====================================== -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: John Lovie <john.lovie@unco.demon.co.uk> > > Hi Jo-ann, > > It's Overalehouse, just a bit out to the SW of Kinneddar. > > Bruce Bishop has a whole series of booklets on the land and peoples of > Moray, Number 11 covers Kinneddar. There's a sketch map of the place > about 1750, on page 41 of the booklet. I've scanned it, hope you can > read it (it's a jpeg). > > Regards, > John

I can forward the image to anyone interested. Drainie Baptisms 1777 Aug 26 John Winster in Hogstown had his lawful son baptized named Alexander Witnesses: Alexander Paul in Plewland & Alexander Innes in Overale House Aug 29 James Edward in Stotford had his lawful son baptized named [no name given] Witnesses: Alexander & James Edward there; James Innes Overale House Sept 1 Alexander Findlay in Stotford had his lawful daughter baptized Jean Witnesses: Alexander Stephen & William Findlay Sept 4 William Munroe in Covesea had his lawful son baptized Robert Witnesses: Robert Leslie in Ardevil [Ardivot] & Robert Munroe in Covesea Sept 6 George Levie in Covesea had his lawful son baptized William [no witnesses listed] Sept 8 John Murdoch in Covesea had his daughter Helen (baptized) Witnesses: John Winster & John Anderson in Whiteby Sept 10 William Murdoch in Plewland had his daughter Margaret (baptized) Witnesses: John Forsyth & Alexander Sinclair there Sept 12 William Bain in Covesea had his son William (baptized) Witnesses: William Calder & William Ritchie there Dec 24 John Anderson in Wind Mill had his lawful son John baptized Witnesses: John Reid schoolmaster & ? & William Walker in Covesea & John Anderson in Alvis Dec 28 William Buckie in Stotford his lawful son baptized named James Witnesses: James Findlay & James Mitchell there -- Jo-Ann Croft

Back late into this conversation... I have some baptisms from Drainie, and I have this Alexander Innes...in Overalehouse 1781 And then I have this one..Film #0990727 under marriages 1768-1819 "John Winchester and Margaret Innes in this parish, contracted and married June 28 1771." (**Anne was right on the money!!) And I do remember when I read this film that Winchester sometimes showed as Windster, and there were lots of them. There was an Alexander Innes in Upper Alehouse who died 1769, I think; the page was a mess to read, but it ws before 1771. Sorry I only took down Innes family. 1796 James Innes has a daughter baptised and Alexander Winchester in Cullielaw (?) was a witness, he actually shows on one other one, then another baptism for James Innes and a John Winchester in Cullielaw shows up. James Innes was in Muirton. I have some other deaths for Over Alehouse for Innes's as well. Plewlands is familiar to me as well, but I can't put my finger on why. Old age? Goldie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Burgess" <anne.burgess@btinternet.com> To: <moray@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:10 PM Subject: Re: [MORAY] Drainie baptisms - 1777 - one page >> in Ettles, I think. Not sure where Plewland would be in >> relation to that. > > Plewland(s) is a large farm in the western part of the parish, > nearer Hopeman (in the parish of Duffus) than Lossiemouth > (parish of Drainie). > > I have yet to find out where Ettles is/was. It doesn't appear on > modern maps, and it is not listed as an address in the 1881 > census. > > Anne > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MORAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

I hope you have also written to the Council  the same as you have written so eloquently here. Regards Karen The Good You Do Comes Back To You. --- On Thu, 12/11/09, Deb & Ken <island@ripnet.com> wrote: From: Deb & Ken <island@ripnet.com> Subject: Re: [MORAY] OT? - Elgin Local Heritage Centre threatened To: "'Anne Burgess'" <anne.burgess@btinternet.com>, moray@rootsweb.com Cc: budget@moray.gov.uk Date: Thursday, 12 November, 2009, 14:44 Anne, Thank you for sending the article on "The Great Savings Plan".   My trip to Scotland and of course my extended stay to the Moray Heritage Centre was postponed this year but still plan to make the visit. I am sure the Moray Council has considered the economic spin off from visitors who come to the region to learn more about their heritage, such as supporting  accommodations, artisans, restaurants & pubs. My wish would be that the council will look at preserving the services that are being offered at present but will also explore how perhaps an investment in expansion of services could be a revenue generator. Libraries and Museums are an investment not an expense. Researching family roots is a growing industry and is set to be even bigger if you look at the demographics of the baby boomers just starting to retire.  This is the ideal time to ensure that the region is ready to accommodate visitors and ensure that their experience will result in repeat visits and referrals. Researching best practices of other worldwide communities where a strategic decision was made to ensure that libraries and museums were accessible and a place of learning for the community and visitors thus preserving a communities' culture would be my goal. Deb Hamilton Canada -----Original Message----- From: moray-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:moray-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Anne Burgess Sent: November 12, 2009 5:54 AM To: Moray@rootsweb.com; Sct-Banffshire@rootsweb.com Subject: [MORAY] OT? - Elgin Local Heritage Centre threatened This is an extract from the 'Northern Scot', dated 6 November 2009. The article is headed 'The Great Savings Plan' and outlines a whole range of cuts intended to reduce Moray Council's expenditure. "Libraries and Museums. Reduce budget by various staff reductions, including the local heritage officer post .... reductions in hours and closures .... increase income generation by local heritage service (£5,500)  .... transfer archives .... from Forres Tolbooth .... " The article does not say specifically how the 'reductions in hours and closures' would affect the local heritage centre, but is is hard to see how the centre could function at all, let alone at its present level, without someone in charge of it. And how do they propose to increase income without an officer to do the work? There is a consultation period during which members of the public can respond to the proposals. Responses must be submitted by December 15 and can be emailed (sic) to budget@moray.gov.uk I have written a letter to the Chief Executive, Moray Council, Council Headquarters, Elgin IV30 1BX to express my shock and outrage at, and strong opposition to, this proposal. Anne You don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing. (Michael Pritchard) Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never fail to be amused (Joachim Verhagen) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MORAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.60/2496 - Release Date: 11/11/09 07:40:00 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MORAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have written an objection too and hope all those who wish to keep this excellent facilty open and running through the financial downturn to do likewise. Regards Karen Ann Donald nee Stewart The Good You Do Comes Back To You. --- On Thu, 12/11/09, Anne Burgess <anne.burgess@btinternet.com> wrote: From: Anne Burgess <anne.burgess@btinternet.com> Subject: [MORAY] OT? - Elgin Local Heritage Centre threatened To: Moray@rootsweb.com, Sct-Banffshire@rootsweb.com Date: Thursday, 12 November, 2009, 10:53 This is an extract from the 'Northern Scot', dated 6 November 2009. The article is headed 'The Great Savings Plan' and outlines a whole range of cuts intended to reduce Moray Council's expenditure. "Libraries and Museums. Reduce budget by various staff reductions, including the local heritage officer post .... reductions in hours and closures .... increase income generation by local heritage service (£5,500)  .... transfer archives .... from Forres Tolbooth .... " The article does not say specifically how the 'reductions in hours and closures' would affect the local heritage centre, but is is hard to see how the centre could function at all, let alone at its present level, without someone in charge of it. And how do they propose to increase income without an officer to do the work? There is a consultation period during which members of the public can respond to the proposals. Responses must be submitted by December 15 and can be emailed (sic) to budget@moray.gov.uk I have written a letter to the Chief Executive, Moray Council, Council Headquarters, Elgin IV30 1BX to express my shock and outrage at, and strong opposition to, this proposal. Anne You don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing. (Michael Pritchard) Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never fail to be amused (Joachim Verhagen) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MORAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This would make an excellent discussion paper for everyone concerned with these intended budget cuts. Deb and Ken, you've cut to the chase and it requires all of us to unundate the Moray Council budget office with this message. Chris Duff ----- Original Message ----- From: <genegenie2005-gen@yahoo.co.uk> To: <moray@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [MORAY] OT? - Elgin Local Heritage Centre threatened I hope you have also written to the Council the same as you have written so eloquently here. Regards Karen The Good You Do Comes Back To You. --- On Thu, 12/11/09, Deb & Ken <island@ripnet.com> wrote: From: Deb & Ken <island@ripnet.com> Subject: Re: [MORAY] OT? - Elgin Local Heritage Centre threatened To: "'Anne Burgess'" <anne.burgess@btinternet.com>, moray@rootsweb.com Cc: budget@moray.gov.uk Date: Thursday, 12 November, 2009, 14:44 Anne, Thank you for sending the article on "The Great Savings Plan". My trip to Scotland and of course my extended stay to the Moray Heritage Centre was postponed this year but still plan to make the visit. I am sure the Moray Council has considered the economic spin off from visitors who come to the region to learn more about their heritage, such as supporting accommodations, artisans, restaurants & pubs. My wish would be that the council will look at preserving the services that are being offered at present but will also explore how perhaps an investment in expansion of services could be a revenue generator. Libraries and Museums are an investment not an expense. Researching family roots is a growing industry and is set to be even bigger if you look at the demographics of the baby boomers just starting to retire. This is the ideal time to ensure that the region is ready to accommodate visitors and ensure that their experience will result in repeat visits and referrals. Researching best practices of other worldwide communities where a strategic decision was made to ensure that libraries and museums were accessible and a place of learning for the community and visitors thus preserving a communities' culture would be my goal. Deb Hamilton Canada -----Original Message----- From: moray-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:moray-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Anne Burgess Sent: November 12, 2009 5:54 AM To: Moray@rootsweb.com; Sct-Banffshire@rootsweb.com Subject: [MORAY] OT? - Elgin Local Heritage Centre threatened This is an extract from the 'Northern Scot', dated 6 November 2009. The article is headed 'The Great Savings Plan' and outlines a whole range of cuts intended to reduce Moray Council's expenditure. "Libraries and Museums. Reduce budget by various staff reductions, including the local heritage officer post .... reductions in hours and closures .... increase income generation by local heritage service (£5,500) .... transfer archives .... from Forres Tolbooth .... " The article does not say specifically how the 'reductions in hours and closures' would affect the local heritage centre, but is is hard to see how the centre could function at all, let alone at its present level, without someone in charge of it. And how do they propose to increase income without an officer to do the work? There is a consultation period during which members of the public can respond to the proposals. Responses must be submitted by December 15 and can be emailed (sic) to budget@moray.gov.uk I have written a letter to the Chief Executive, Moray Council, Council Headquarters, Elgin IV30 1BX to express my shock and outrage at, and strong opposition to, this proposal. Anne You don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing. (Michael Pritchard) Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never fail to be amused (Joachim Verhagen) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MORAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.60/2496 - Release Date: 11/11/09 07:40:00 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MORAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MORAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have just fired off an e-mail to the Moray budget office objecting to the intended cuts and asking them to reconsider. Chris Duff ----- Original Message ----- From: <genegenie2005-gen@yahoo.co.uk> To: "Anne Burgess" <anne.burgess@btinternet.com>; <moray@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [MORAY] OT? - Elgin Local Heritage Centre threatened I have written an objection too and hope all those who wish to keep this excellent facilty open and running through the financial downturn to do likewise. Regards Karen Ann Donald nee Stewart The Good You Do Comes Back To You. --- On Thu, 12/11/09, Anne Burgess <anne.burgess@btinternet.com> wrote: From: Anne Burgess <anne.burgess@btinternet.com> Subject: [MORAY] OT? - Elgin Local Heritage Centre threatened To: Moray@rootsweb.com, Sct-Banffshire@rootsweb.com Date: Thursday, 12 November, 2009, 10:53 This is an extract from the 'Northern Scot', dated 6 November 2009. The article is headed 'The Great Savings Plan' and outlines a whole range of cuts intended to reduce Moray Council's expenditure. "Libraries and Museums. Reduce budget by various staff reductions, including the local heritage officer post .... reductions in hours and closures .... increase income generation by local heritage service (£5,500) .... transfer archives .... from Forres Tolbooth .... " The article does not say specifically how the 'reductions in hours and closures' would affect the local heritage centre, but is is hard to see how the centre could function at all, let alone at its present level, without someone in charge of it. And how do they propose to increase income without an officer to do the work? There is a consultation period during which members of the public can respond to the proposals. Responses must be submitted by December 15 and can be emailed (sic) to budget@moray.gov.uk I have written a letter to the Chief Executive, Moray Council, Council Headquarters, Elgin IV30 1BX to express my shock and outrage at, and strong opposition to, this proposal. Anne You don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing. (Michael Pritchard) Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never fail to be amused (Joachim Verhagen) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MORAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MORAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message