Hello Alastair Peter and Elspet may have had an irregular marriage and this was frowned upon by the church. In later years the church may have persuaded them to have a church wedding and that could be what you have seen registered. The irregular marriage, an agreement in front of witnesses, was legal, and free! Perhaps you have heard of irregular marriages, but if you want more information I shall post it for you and others. The write-up is in the Scottish Ancestors book from the Scottish Record Office. I hope this helps you. Sheila. Alastair Macdonald wrote: > This one has me puzzled. > Elgin Birth Register 6th Jan. 1822:- > "Peter Hardy Farmer at Greenhowe in Pluscarden of Elgin and Elspet Asher his spouse had a son born on the fifth day of January 1822 named Alexander baptized" etc. > Then on 4th. February 1825 there is a marriage in Elgin Parish between "Peter Hardy in this Parish and Elspet Asher in the Parish of St. Andrews-Lhanbryde". > What could be the explanation for this? There is no pre-1822 marriage recorded, but would Elspet have been described as "his spouse" in 1822 if they were not married? Alexander is NM072446 on LIBINDX, but is not described as illegitimate at either his Marriage or Death. > One intriguing possibility is that there is a Peter Hardy (NM025058 on LIBINDX) who died in Elgin in Feb. 1824. Might Elspet have stayed on at Greenhowe (she is still there in 1841 and 1851) and married a second Peter Hardy in 1825, having four more children by him? Seems unlikely to me. > Anyone got any ideas? > Alastair MacDonald > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MORAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

This one has me puzzled. Elgin Birth Register 6th Jan. 1822:- "Peter Hardy Farmer at Greenhowe in Pluscarden of Elgin and Elspet Asher his spouse had a son born on the fifth day of January 1822 named Alexander baptized" etc. Then on 4th. February 1825 there is a marriage in Elgin Parish between "Peter Hardy in this Parish and Elspet Asher in the Parish of St. Andrews-Lhanbryde". What could be the explanation for this? There is no pre-1822 marriage recorded, but would Elspet have been described as "his spouse" in 1822 if they were not married? Alexander is NM072446 on LIBINDX, but is not described as illegitimate at either his Marriage or Death. One intriguing possibility is that there is a Peter Hardy (NM025058 on LIBINDX) who died in Elgin in Feb. 1824. Might Elspet have stayed on at Greenhowe (she is still there in 1841 and 1851) and married a second Peter Hardy in 1825, having four more children by him? Seems unlikely to me. Anyone got any ideas? Alastair MacDonald

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: fionacmacdonald Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.mor.general/1226.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I too am researching Smiths from Forres - John Smith (a carpenter) and his wife Margaret (nee MacDonald). They were born in the 1840s and their children are:- Thomas 1871 Maggie Ann 1873 Mary 1875 Joan 1877 John 1879 Donald 1882 Jessie 1885 Ann 1887 and their grandson William Stuart Smith born Forres 17 Feb 1893, son of Maggie Ann. Any connection? Thanks Fiona Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Sorry, I seem to have managed to send a half-completed version of this. > Many people belonged to other Christian groups other than the > main churches > Anglican, Presbyterian, Roman Catholic. Not true in Scotland, by and large. There were historically very few people who did not belong to one or another of these groups. > These Dissenters, Non-Conformists, Quakers, Dunkers, > Anabaptists, > Mennonites, Amish, Puritans, Brethren Dissenters, Non-Conformsist and Puritans are all terms applied in England to those who were not adherents of the Church of England, including Presbyterians and Methodists. They do not apply in Scotland where the majority denomination was Church of Scotland. There are a handful of Quaker congregations and several varieties of Brethren in Scotland. I have never heard of Amish or Mennonites in Scotland, and I have never heard of Dunkers. I have come across Antipaedobaptists but not Anabaptists. Scotland had a bewildering variety of home-grown denominations. There used to be a wonderful diagram showing all the various splits and recombinations of the kirks in Scotland, but it is no longer at the URL I had bookmarked, and I cannot now find it. The ministers who compiled the Statistical Accounts in the 1790s were asked to note the numbers of different denominations living in their parishes. Many made no observation, which may suggest that there were no adherents of denominations other than the Church of Scotland. The ministers of Abernethy and Kincardine, Drainie and Edinkillie stated specifically that all the inhabitants of their parishes belonged to the Church of Scotland. Duffus had 'two or three Antiburghers' and a small non-jurant (i.e. Jacobite so probably Anglican) meeting. Rafford had two or three families who belonged to the Secession. Urquhart had 20 Seceders, mainly Antiburghers. In Elgin there were Seceders, Episcopalians, Roman Catholics and Methodists, none of them numerous. Forres had only a few Seceders. So if the ministers are to be believed, those not adhering to the Church of Scotland in Moray in the 1790s were very few and far between indeed, and there were no Quakers, Dunkers, Anabaptists, Mennonites, Amish, Puritans or Brethren. Anne

> Many people belonged to other Christian groups other than the > main churches > Anglican, Presbyterian, Roman Catholic. > > These Dissenters, Non-Conformists, Quakers, Dunkers, > Anabaptists, > Mennonites, Amish, Puritans, Brethren etc often held views > that every man > should tell the truth at all times and that God Knows All. So > therefore such > things as taking oaths, signing legal documents and perfoming > fancy > ceremonies like church weddings was unneccessary. They were > were often very > outspoken of their hatred towards the mainsteam churches and > would never > even enter one. So many of these people although they attended > "Church" > faithfully didn't go to those who recorded marriages etc. > Civil or simple > private home marriages were the only alternative for these > people. Mixed > marriages (Catholic-Protestant-Jewish-etc) or divorced couples > were of > course shunned by the Church and had little choice but to go > for a civil > /common-law marriage > > In the North American colonies it was often very difficult to > get Any > clergyman to vist your village for months on end so most > people simply held > public civil marriages where the Banns were read in public and > the townsfolk > simply acknowledged the couple as being "married" from that > point on. In the > military where a soldier's widow as given only a day or two to > remarry the > new couple would jump over a broom or pass under crossed > swords to > celebrate their marriage vows. > > The mainstream churches however were always very upset that > these people > could get married without paying and hounded and fined the > people all the > time. > > So don't think your ancestors were "Living in Sin" or were > "Ungodly" they > simply may have held very strong views that just didn't fit in > with the > majority. > > Nelson Denton > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2684 - Release > Date: 02/12/10 14:35:00 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MORAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

My interest in this page is the CRUICKSHANK entry. Contact me for a copy of the image if desired. 1887 Death Register, Parish of Edinkillie, County of Moray Page 1 #1 James ALLAN, carpenter journeyman, single Died: 8 January 1887, W. Tillidens, Edinkillie Age: 23 years Parents: James ALLAN, farmer, deceased and Isabella Allan m.s. McDONALD COD: Pleurisy 8 months, certified by G Petrie HAY, M.D. Informant: William ALLAN, brother, present #2 Mary CRUICKSHANK (married to William CRUICKSHANK, Post Messenger) Died: 11 March 1887, Polds Lodge, Duniphail, Edinkillie Age: 44 years Parents: David McRITCHIE, general labourer, deceased and Isabella McRitchie m.s. FRASER, deceased COD: (a) Pleurisy 6 years (b) Phthisis 2 years, certified by G Petrie HAY, M.D. Informant: Wm Cruickshank, widower, present #3 Margaret DUNCAN (married to Robert DUNCAN, railway platelayer) Died: 9 May 1887, Presley, Edinkillie Age: 47 years Parents: Malcolm STRONACH, sawyer, deceased and Barbara Stronach m.s. DONALDSON, deceased COD: Cancer of the uterus, certified by Leslie H. MILNE, MBCM Informant: Robert DUNCAN, widower, present -- Jo-Ann Croft

Anyone with Banffshire roots might be interested in a series of family history talks which is due to start this week at the Portsoy Salmon Bothy. The first, on 'Sources for Banffshire Family History Research' is at 2pm on Saturday 6th Feb in the upstairs room at the Bothy. You can find out more at http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1584065   Alison

Rhoda Many thanks your email will definitely look into the Slorachs yhou advised me of. Once again many thanks. Andrew M Shannon ----- Original Message ----- From: "CandROverson" <overson12@btinternet.com> To: <moray@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 1:06 AM Subject: Re: [MORAY] SLORACH > Hello Andrew > > Just a thought. There were a number of George SLORACHs born and > registered > in Edinburgh in the 18th century (1714 to George Slorach/Jean Burd; 1721 > to > Walter Slorach/Helen Burd; 1725 to James Slorach/Janet Blaw; 1728 to James > Slorach/Isobell Baron; 1730 to George Slorach/Mary Simpson; 1747 to John > Slorach/Jean Siveright). There may well have been more that weren't > registered. So you may need to extend your searches beyond Moray. And the > birth of a Jean HUTCHEON was registered in Leith South, Edinburgh, in > 1764. > > No sign of a marriage unfortunately. > > > Rhoda > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andrew Shannon" <ldgwtr@tpg.com.au> > To: <MORAY@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 9:28 AM > Subject: [MORAY] SLORACH > > >> >> I am endeavouring to find more about the ancestors of John Slorach born >> on >> 17 May 1791 in Bellie, Moray. >> >> My endeavours to go further have reach a stumbling block with his parents >> George Slorach and Jean Hutcheon. I have found out that George Slorach >> may have been in the same Regiment as the Duke of Gordon who made him a >> Forest Warden on the Gordon Estate. >> >> If anyone can assist me in gaining further ancestral information or point >> me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it. I have covered >> all aspects that I know of. >> >> Andrew M Shannon >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MORAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MORAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > >

My interest is RUSSELL, the daughter of Jane RIACH. 1914 Marriage Register, District of Elgin, County of Elgin Page 15 #29 After Banns according to the forms of the Congregational Church Date: 17 April 1914 at 13 King Street, Elgin George Alexander LONGMUIR, hotel keeper, bachelor Age: 24 Res: 94 English Street, Dumfries Parents: John LONGMUIR, hotel keeper and Isabella Longmuir m.s. YOUNG, deceased and Annie Caroline FORSYTH, domestic servant Age: 27 Res: 13 King Street, Elgin Parents: Alexander FORSYTH, house painter and Elspet Forsyth m.s. BOWIE #30 After Banns according to the forms of the Church of Scotland Date: 24 April 1914 at The Manse, Elgin John GRANT, sawmill labourer, bachelor Age: 27 Res: 36 Maycroft, Elgin Parents: William GRANT, labourer and Jane Grant m.s. FORBES and Maggie J. RUSSELL, laundry worker Age: 30 Res: 39 Maycroft, Elgin Parents: William RUSSELL, gardener, deceased and Jane RUSSELL m.s. ? (can't make out, but doesn't seem to be either PHINN or RIACH) -- Jo-Ann Croft

My interest is Jane RUSSELL m.s. RIACH. 1915 Death Register, District of Elgin, County of Elgin Page 59 #175 Isabella STALKER, shoe merchant (Widow of William STALKER, shoe merchant) Died: 11 September 1915, 183 High Street, Elgin Age: 72 years Parents: John PIRIE, farmer, deceased and Anne Pirie m.s. BARBER, deceased COD: Valvular disease of heart, 3 years, certified by Philip M. STEWART, M.D. Informant: W. WELSH, son-in-law, Errollstown, Gordon Street, Elgin #176 Jane RUSSELL (Widow of William RUSSELL, gardener) Died: 12 September 1915,. 26 Maycroft, Elgin Age: 58 years Parents: Charles PHINN, farm labourer, deceased and Jane Phinn m.s. RIACH, deceased COD: Valvular heart disease, certified by T.H.W. ALEXANDER, MB Informant: John GRANT, son-in-law, 31 Maycroft, Elgin MY NOTE: Charles PHINN and Jane RIACH were never married. #177 Mary CRUICKSHANK (married to William CRUISHANK, traction engine driver) Died: 14 September 1915, Gray's Hosptial, Elgin (usual res. 20 Land Street, Rothes) Age: 35 years Parents: William MARGACH, general merchant, deceased, and Helen Margach m.s. RUSSELL, deceased COD: Pleuro-pneumonia, certified by Thomas H.W. ALEXANDER, MB Informant: William CRUICKSHANK, widower -- Jo-Ann Croft

My interest is with Charles PHINN, who fathered two children out of wedlock with Jane RIACH. 1874 Death Register, Parish of Dallas, County of Elgin Page 3 #7 Charles PHINN, single Died: 21 March 1874, Village of Dallas Age: 48 years Parents: Charles PHINN, wool carder, deceased and Ann Phinn m.s. YOUNG, deceased COD: Cardiac Disease, Pneumonia, certified by Robert GUNN, M.D. Forres Informant: James YOUNG, uncle, present #8 William WINK, single, illegitimate Died: 6 May 1874, Bannoch of Kellas, Dallas Age: 12 years Parents: John WINK, farm servant (reputed father) and Catherine McKENZIE, domestic servant COD: tubercular meningitis, 3 weeks, certified by C. ADAM, MB & CM, Elgin Informant: James ROBERTSON, neighbor, Bodneyfluch of Kellas, Dallas #9 James GRANT, single Died: 5 May 1874, Wester Little Branchill, Dallas Age: 1 year 11 months Parents: James GRANT, farmer and Ann Grant m.s. FRASER COD: Unknown - sudden, no immediate medical attendant -- Jo-Ann Croft

I am endeavouring to find more about the ancestors of John Slorach born on 17 May 1791 in Bellie, Moray. My endeavours to go further have reach a stumbling block with his parents George Slorach and Jean Hutcheon. I have found out that George Slorach may have been in the same Regiment as the Duke of Gordon who made him a Forest Warden on the Gordon Estate. If anyone can assist me in gaining further ancestral information or point me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it. I have covered all aspects that I know of. Andrew M Shannon

Hello Andrew Just a thought. There were a number of George SLORACHs born and registered in Edinburgh in the 18th century (1714 to George Slorach/Jean Burd; 1721 to Walter Slorach/Helen Burd; 1725 to James Slorach/Janet Blaw; 1728 to James Slorach/Isobell Baron; 1730 to George Slorach/Mary Simpson; 1747 to John Slorach/Jean Siveright). There may well have been more that weren't registered. So you may need to extend your searches beyond Moray. And the birth of a Jean HUTCHEON was registered in Leith South, Edinburgh, in 1764. No sign of a marriage unfortunately. Rhoda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Shannon" <ldgwtr@tpg.com.au> To: <MORAY@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 9:28 AM Subject: [MORAY] SLORACH > > I am endeavouring to find more about the ancestors of John Slorach born on > 17 May 1791 in Bellie, Moray. > > My endeavours to go further have reach a stumbling block with his parents > George Slorach and Jean Hutcheon. I have found out that George Slorach > may have been in the same Regiment as the Duke of Gordon who made him a > Forest Warden on the Gordon Estate. > > If anyone can assist me in gaining further ancestral information or point > me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it. I have covered > all aspects that I know of. > > Andrew M Shannon > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MORAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks to all the replied - on and off-list. Very much appreciated. Now I just have to figure out what do to do with them when we are visiting the "mother house of records" in Edinburgh :). Much to do there but fear they will get lost :)........or we will. Again, many thanks!

I have a George McKENZIE who married Ann RIACH in 1855. They had 5 children in Forres. Isabella b 3 Nov 1856 (alive in 1881 census) Margaret Cumming b 16 Sep 1859 d 1860 Ann Maria b 9 May 1861 (not in household in 1881 census) John 6 Dec 1866 (baker in 1881 census) George b 21 Jan 1870 (alive in 1881 census) George and Ann were both dead by 1886. I cannot find any of the children in 1891 or 1901 census. Does anyone have a connection to this family? -- Jo-Ann Croft

Edinburgh will be the least of your worries........there are lots of things for the others to do, and some of the best things are free!! You will have a blast!! Good luck searching, Goldie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sherry" <wiccanpt2@netzero.net> To: <genegenie2005-gen@yahoo.co.uk>; <moray@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [MORAY] Off Topic - Fishing Scotland > Thanks to all the replied - on and off-list. Very much appreciated. Now > I > just have to figure out what do to do with them when we are visiting the > "mother house of records" in Edinburgh :). Much to do there but fear they > will get lost :)........or we will. > > Again, many thanks! > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MORAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

There are lots of places to fish , some cheap and some very expensive, but fishing from the shore is free to anyone as is fishing at sea ( but you need a boat !!) . Try this site. http://www.fishpal.com/VisitScotland/index.asp?dom=VisitScotland Regards Karen The Good You Do Comes Back To You. --- On Fri, 22/1/10, Sherry <wiccanpt2@netzero.net> wrote: From: Sherry <wiccanpt2@netzero.net> Subject: [MORAY] Off Topic - Fishing Scotland To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Date: Friday, 22 January, 2010, 0:51 I am planning another trip to Scotland and this visit will include family members who like to fish.  I am attempting to appease this group while we (the genealogical side of the family) are traipsing about the burial grounds. I have spent hours on the net trying to find a site where I can view rules / regulations pertaining to fishing in Scotland.  I live in Michigan surrounded by the Great Lakes.  We are required to purchase a fishing license but our lakes (lochs) and rivers are "public property". Could someone on this list possibly point me in the right direction with regard to same? Many thanks ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MORAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am planning another trip to Scotland and this visit will include family members who like to fish. I am attempting to appease this group while we (the genealogical side of the family) are traipsing about the burial grounds. I have spent hours on the net trying to find a site where I can view rules / regulations pertaining to fishing in Scotland. I live in Michigan surrounded by the Great Lakes. We are required to purchase a fishing license but our lakes (lochs) and rivers are "public property". Could someone on this list possibly point me in the right direction with regard to same? Many thanks

Transcription of photo of Mitchell headstone in Dufftown Churchyard Erected by William MITCHELL shoemaker Dufftown In Memory of his father John MITCHELL Who died 28 June 1859 aged 84 years Also of his children Janet Who died 28 Mar 1859 aged 3 years Robert Who died 3 Feb 1860 aged 11 months Helen Who died 15 Oct 1863 aged 9 months And Robert and James twin infants Who died 6 May 1864 Stone has been fused together (see photo) as presumably the bottom memorial stone is connected to the above memorial stone.however, it appears as if they were two separate stones originally. ...... [name missing] MCLEAN who died July 1871 aged 87 years ( this is undoubtedly his mother, Janet Mclean - can just make out MCLEAN on stone) and his wife Annie CRAIB who died 5 Jan 1892 aged 66 years the above William MITCHELL died 13 Feb 1893 aged 82 years Also his daughter Jane Who died 11 April 1900 aged 34 years And his son George Who died 16 Mar 1908 aged 54 years And his daughter Ann Who died 5 July 1945 aged 84 years 0000000000000000000000000000000000 The above William Mitchell [b.1810] & family are not in my direct line, but I live in hope of connecting this William Mitchell's grandfather, James Mitchell [shoemaker Mortlach b ~ 1730/40 = Isabella Baillie] with my own William Mitchell [shoemaker Mortlach b. ~ 1745/55 = Anne Walker].

Hi to all Mitchell researchers I have a photo of the headstone [Mortlach churchyard] of the family of William & Ann which gives details of William's parents, and his family. If anyone is interested is receiving a copy, please email me direct at pri48937@bigpond.net.au. Alternatively, I can send a transcription of the information to the list. Regards Pat in Western Australia