T-Names bear no connection with the place or anything else as far as I can see. My gr gr grandfather, William Reid was known by the T-name "Starkey". I'm yet to know where the name came from. There were many Reid families in Buckie back from 1800 to 1900 and most were fishermen. This was the best way to tell who was who. Alex Davidson, Cromarty

This was posted on the ZA list this morning, the poster found it in his files and thought that others might like the words. Carol Admin Moray Mailing List www.wakefieldfhs.org.uk/morayweb T'was the night before Christmas when all through the house Not a creature was stirring, not even my spouse. The dining room table with clutter was spread Stacks of pedigree charts and with letters which said. . . "Too bad about the data for which you just wrote It sank in a storm on an ill-fated boat." Stacks of old copies of wills and the such Were proof that my work had become much to much. Our children were nestled all snug in their beds, While visions of sugarplums danced in their heads. And I at my table was ready to drop >From work on my album with photos to crop. Christmas was here, and of such was my lot That presents and goodies and toys I'd forgot. Had I not been so busy with my grandparent's wills, I'd not have forgotten to shop for such thrills. While others bought gifts that would bring Christmas cheer; I'd spent time researching those birth dates and years. While I was thus musing about my sad plight, A strange noise on the lawn gave me such a great fright. Away to the window I flew like a flash, Tore open the drapes and then yanked up the sash. When what to my wondering eyes should appear? But an overstuffed sleigh and eight small reindeer. Up to the rooftop the reindeer they flew, With a sleigh full of toys and old Santa Claus, too. And then in a twinkle, I heard on the roof The prancing and pawing of thirty-two hoofs. Our TV antenna was no match for their horns, And look at that roof with those hoof prints adorned! As I drew in my head, slamming it on the sash, Down the cold chimney fell Santa - KER-RASH! "Dear" Santa came down looking like a wreck. Tracking soot on the carpet,(I could wring his short neck!) Spotting my face, good old Santa could see That I had no Christmas spirit, you'd have to agree. He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work And filled all the stockings, (I felt like a jerk)! Here was Santa, who'd brought us such gladness and joy; When I'd been too busy for even one toy! He spied my research on the table all spread "A genealogist!" he cried! (My face burned bright red!) "Tonight I've met many like you," Santa grinned. As he pulled from his sack a large book he had penned. I gazed with amazement -- the cover it read "Those Genealogy Lines for Which You Have Pled." "I know what it's like being a genealogy bug," He said as he gave me a great Santa Hug. "While the elves make the sleighful of toys that I carry, I do my research in the North Pole Library! A special treat I am thus able to bring To genealogy folks who just can't find a thing. Now off you must go off to your bed for a rest, I'll clean up the house from this genealogy mess!" As I climbed up the stairs full of gladness and glee, I looked back at Santa who'd brought so much to me. While settling in bed, I heard Santa's clear whistle, To his team, then they rose like the down of a thistle. And I heard him exclaim as he flew out of sight, "Family History is Fun! Merry Christmas! Goodnight!"

I gathered re T-names that it could designate a place, e.g. Campbell of Breadlebane, Cameron of Lochiel, Murray of Athol. Is this correct? Chris Ridings -----Original Message----- From: Gay King [mailto:gayking@aci.on.ca] Sent: Thursday, 9 December 2004 3:16 To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [MORAY] Name Game Hi Anne, Regarding Tee-names, if someone was born Mary Smith but Grant would distinguish her from other Mary Smiths, how would the Tee-name be used? Mary Grant-Smith? Thanks for the info! Gay -----Original Message----- From: anne.listmail@btinternet.com [mailto:anne.listmail@btinternet.com] Sent: December 8, 2004 9:54 AM To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MORAY] Name Game > Would some kind soul please point me in the > direction of a website where I > can learn what was the 'naming pattern' in Scottish > families for > forenames/first names? 1st son after father's father 2nd son after mother's father 3rd son after father 1st daughter after mother's mother 2nd daughter after father's mother 3rd daughter after mother subsequent children after more distant relatives/friends/neighbours/doctor/minister/schoolmaster/landowner etc > Also, what are T-names..? Tee-names are sort of extra surnames, found where a particular surname is common enough in a particular community for there to be some need to distinguish different families of the same name. Tee-names descend to each new generation, and occasionally they are recorded against surnames in the census. Anne ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== Don't forget that if you delete a message, you can always visit the archives of this list http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MORAY/. The archives are also worth looking at, whether you be a new or established lister. ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx ______________________________

Some younger children also appear to have been named after witnesses to the baptism, almost as if that person was a godparent with specific supportive care for the child, perhaps? Chris Ridings -----Original Message----- From: anne.listmail@btinternet.com [mailto:anne.listmail@btinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, 9 December 2004 1:54 To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MORAY] Name Game > Would some kind soul please point me in the > direction of a website where I > can learn what was the 'naming pattern' in Scottish > families for > forenames/first names? 1st son after father's father 2nd son after mother's father 3rd son after father 1st daughter after mother's mother 2nd daughter after father's mother 3rd daughter after mother subsequent children after more distant relatives/friends/neighbours/doctor/minister/schoolmaster/landowner etc > Also, what are T-names..? Tee-names are sort of extra surnames, found where a particular surname is common enough in a particular community for there to be some need to distinguish different families of the same name. Tee-names descend to each new generation, and occasionally they are recorded against surnames in the census. Anne ______________________________

> Would some kind soul please point me in the > direction of a website where I > can learn what was the 'naming pattern' in Scottish > families for > forenames/first names? 1st son after father's father 2nd son after mother's father 3rd son after father 1st daughter after mother's mother 2nd daughter after father's mother 3rd daughter after mother subsequent children after more distant relatives/friends/neighbours/doctor/minister/schoolmaster/landowner etc > Also, what are T-names..? Tee-names are sort of extra surnames, found where a particular surname is common enough in a particular community for there to be some need to distinguish different families of the same name. Tee-names descend to each new generation, and occasionally they are recorded against surnames in the census. Anne

> No one has suggested Jessie may be short for > Jessica. Am I being too > obvious? Apart from the almost complete absence of records of the given name Jessica in Scotland before the appearance of Jessie in the 19th century, it is a logical idea. It seems to me that Jessie is much too common to be a contraction of such an uncommon name. Annw

Hi Anne, Regarding Tee-names, if someone was born Mary Smith but Grant would distinguish her from other Mary Smiths, how would the Tee-name be used? Mary Grant-Smith? Thanks for the info! Gay -----Original Message----- From: anne.listmail@btinternet.com [mailto:anne.listmail@btinternet.com] Sent: December 8, 2004 9:54 AM To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MORAY] Name Game > Would some kind soul please point me in the > direction of a website where I > can learn what was the 'naming pattern' in Scottish > families for > forenames/first names? 1st son after father's father 2nd son after mother's father 3rd son after father 1st daughter after mother's mother 2nd daughter after father's mother 3rd daughter after mother subsequent children after more distant relatives/friends/neighbours/doctor/minister/schoolmaster/landowner etc > Also, what are T-names..? Tee-names are sort of extra surnames, found where a particular surname is common enough in a particular community for there to be some need to distinguish different families of the same name. Tee-names descend to each new generation, and occasionally they are recorded against surnames in the census. Anne ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== Don't forget that if you delete a message, you can always visit the archives of this list http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MORAY/. The archives are also worth looking at, whether you be a new or established lister. ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Cumming Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/BgC.2ACI/1250 Message Board Post: I am looking for any relatives of James Cumming who lived at Ferrydene Avenue Kenton Newcastle upon Tyne. or his son James A Cumming Aysgarth Green Newcastle. James Cumming died 1963 in the Walkergate Hospital he was my Uncle

Hi Carol, could you please advise if any of these booklets may mention a James Grant, soldier in the Inverness shire militia in about 1810 - 1812 and later a farmer at `Strondow' at Knockando please? I believe that he died in 1850 at Knockando. Many thanks. Kate Brial Australia -----Original Message----- From: carol [mailto:carol@wakefieldfhs.org.uk] Sent: Sunday, 5 December 2004 9:05 To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MORAY] Lands and People of Moray I have a few of these very informative A5 booklets. They are jam packed with lists of names, info about the period, small transcripts from original documents and maps. Very interesting and Bruce Bishop deserves a medal for his compilations. Carol Admin Moray Mailing List www.wakefieldfhs.org.uk/morayweb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Krista Mann" <kmann@ra.rockwell.com> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 5:41 PM Subject: [MORAY] Lands and People of Moray > Lands and People of Moray, Mortcloth dues etc. A5. > Lands and People of Moray, Part 9. A5. > Lands and People of Moray, Part 10. A5. > Lands and People of Moray, Part 13. A5. > Lands and People of Moray, Part 14. A5. > > Does anyone have any of these? What are these books like? What type of > information do they offer? If anyone has any of these in particular, > would you be willing to look up the surname MAN or MANN? > > Thanks in advance, > Krista Mann > Searching Mann, Taylor, Ettles, Bremner, Panton > > > > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > MORAY OPR's. The OPR's for the Moray area are now starting to be > transcribed and volunteers are needed. Would anyone interested in > transcribing the OPR's for our area please contact me via my usual email > address or visit the Moray Rootsweb pages and contact me via the mailing > list Admin. > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== Please do not send virus warnings to this list. If you have concerns about a virus, contact the list admin at MORAY-D-request@rootsweb.com or join VIRUS-DISCUSSIONS-L@rootsweb.com subscribe in the subject line. ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx

Jesse James was Jesse without the "e". That male name Jesse was based upon the father of David who became king David. As I don't see the name Jesse among Scottish records I'd have to assume that the female name Jessie has a different origin. Chris Ridings -----Original Message----- From: Gordon D. Duffus [mailto:gduffus@rcn.com] Sent: Tuesday, 7 December 2004 4:08 To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MORAY] Jessie? Janet? Jane? I may have missed some of this thread & if so, forgive me. My maternal grandmother's name was Jessie Louden. No nickname.... no diminitive......... just Jessie. I know that that name, in the US at least, is also/only a male's name..... like Jessie James infamous outlaw in the 1800's). Was the name Jessie, in Scotland at least, always a female name? Gordon Chris Ridings wrote: >It would seem to me that the interchangeability of names could stem from the >way 3rd daughters were traditionally named after their mothers so one would >have more than one person of the same name within the family hence it was >probable that the younger one would be called something different. > >In other words interchangeability suggests more than one family person with >that name. > >I haven't come across Jessie being a nickname for Jane or Janet. >In my Scottish names I have Jessie and Janet but no Janes. >I wondered whether Jessie might have been a diminutive for Elspet as I have >several of these. > >Chris Ridings > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ray Hennessy [mailto:rayhennessy@iclway.co.uk] >Sent: Tuesday, 7 December 2004 12:19 >To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [MORAY] Jessie? Janet? Jane? > >Hi Gay > >I am working on a website, which tries to define all these connections, >and it's nearly ready to roll. I'm aiming for release on 1/1/2005 but >I'll let you have a preview by separate email. > >The local vernacular has it that Janet and Jessie are fully >interchangeable, i.e. true synonyms, and that is certainly true for >Sheena's family and all we know in Aberdeenshire. Janet is a very early >diminutive for Jane but, according to the sources I have, there is no >connection between Jane and Jessie. > >It would be wrong to pontificate [especially for a Sassenach], but one >can imagine a family calling a Jane by the pet name of Janet and then >other people might equate that with Jessie. The only real way out is to >find documents clearly of the same person and find different names on >them. > >For the moment I am assuming that there is no connection between Jessie >and Jane but would like to hear from anyone with anecdotal evidence of >such a link. > >Ray Hennessy > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Gay King" <gayking@aci.on.ca> >To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 3:54 AM >Subject: [MORAY] Jessie? Janet? Jane? > > > > >>Hi, >> >>Can anyone tell me for what 'Jessie' would have been the diminutive? >>Janet? >>Jane? These ladies are changing their names very quickly! >> >>I've figured out that Jane and Jean are used interchangeably but >>that's it >>so far! >> >>Gay >> >> >> >>==== MORAY Mailing List ==== >>If you need to unsub for your holidays, change your email address, or >>report anything to the admin of the list - all this information can be >>found at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/SCT/MORAY.html >> >>============================== >>Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for >>ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: >>http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx >> >> >> > >______________________________ > > >==== MORAY Mailing List ==== >Don't forget that if you delete a message, you can always visit the archives of this list http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MORAY/. The archives are also worth looking at, whether you be a new or established lister. > >============================== >Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. >Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > > > >

Hi Gordon I have female ancestors in Scotland with birth names registered as Jessie, around the mid to late 1800's. Cheers Heather Auck, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon D. Duffus" <gduffus@rcn.com> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [MORAY] Jessie? Janet? Jane? >I may have missed some of this thread & if so, forgive me. My maternal >grandmother's name was Jessie Louden. No nickname.... no >diminitive......... just Jessie. I know that that name, in the US at least, >is also/only a male's name..... like Jessie James infamous outlaw in the >1800's). Was the name Jessie, in Scotland at least, always a female name? > Gordon > Chris Ridings wrote: > >>It would seem to me that the interchangeability of names could stem from >>the >>way 3rd daughters were traditionally named after their mothers so one >>would >>have more than one person of the same name within the family hence it was >>probable that the younger one would be called something different. >> >>In other words interchangeability suggests more than one family person >>with >>that name. >> >>I haven't come across Jessie being a nickname for Jane or Janet. >>In my Scottish names I have Jessie and Janet but no Janes. >>I wondered whether Jessie might have been a diminutive for Elspet as I >>have >>several of these. >> >>Chris Ridings >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Ray Hennessy [mailto:rayhennessy@iclway.co.uk] >>Sent: Tuesday, 7 December 2004 12:19 >>To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com >>Subject: Re: [MORAY] Jessie? Janet? Jane? >> >>Hi Gay >> >>I am working on a website, which tries to define all these connections, >>and it's nearly ready to roll. I'm aiming for release on 1/1/2005 but >>I'll let you have a preview by separate email. >> >>The local vernacular has it that Janet and Jessie are fully >>interchangeable, i.e. true synonyms, and that is certainly true for >>Sheena's family and all we know in Aberdeenshire. Janet is a very early >>diminutive for Jane but, according to the sources I have, there is no >>connection between Jane and Jessie. >> >>It would be wrong to pontificate [especially for a Sassenach], but one >>can imagine a family calling a Jane by the pet name of Janet and then >>other people might equate that with Jessie. The only real way out is to >>find documents clearly of the same person and find different names on >>them. >> >>For the moment I am assuming that there is no connection between Jessie >>and Jane but would like to hear from anyone with anecdotal evidence of >>such a link. >> >>Ray Hennessy >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Gay King" <gayking@aci.on.ca> >>To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> >>Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 3:54 AM >>Subject: [MORAY] Jessie? Janet? Jane? >> >> >> >>>Hi, >>> >>>Can anyone tell me for what 'Jessie' would have been the diminutive? >>>Janet? >>>Jane? These ladies are changing their names very quickly! >>> >>>I've figured out that Jane and Jean are used interchangeably but >>>that's it >>>so far! >>> >>>Gay >>> >>> >>> >>>==== MORAY Mailing List ==== >>>If you need to unsub for your holidays, change your email address, or >>>report anything to the admin of the list - all this information can be >>>found at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/SCT/MORAY.html >>> >>>============================== >>>Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for >>>ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: >>>http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx >>> >>> >> >>______________________________ >> >> >>==== MORAY Mailing List ==== >>Don't forget that if you delete a message, you can always visit the >>archives of this list http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MORAY/. The >>archives are also worth looking at, whether you be a new or established >>lister. >> >>============================== >>Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. >>Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: >>http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx >> >> >> >> >

What a good thread for the list over a simple question. There is a section on the list website for naming traditions, nothing complex but explains a lot - link below Carol Admin Moray Mailing List www.wakefieldfhs.org.uk/morayweb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gay King" <gayking@aci.on.ca> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 4:25 PM Subject: [MORAY] Name Game > Hi everyone, > > The thread I started on Janet/Jessie/Jane has resulted in more questions > for > me! > > Would some kind soul please point me in the direction of a website where I > can learn what was the 'naming pattern' in Scottish families for > forenames/first names? > > Also, what are T-names..? > Thanks, > > Gay > > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > Please do not send virus warnings to this list. If you have concerns > about a virus, contact the list admin at MORAY-D-request@rootsweb.com or > join VIRUS-DISCUSSIONS-L@rootsweb.com subscribe in the subject line. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > >

Kate; There's an Alex Grant from Strondow d 1849, buried Knockando. A relation? Looks like his parents are Alex Grant from Clune and Margt Grant. Laura > Hi Carol, could you please advise if any of these booklets may mention a > James Grant, soldier in the Inverness shire militia in about 1810 - 1812 and > later a farmer at `Strondow' at Knockando please? I believe that he died in > 1850 at Knockando. > > Many thanks. > > Kate Brial > Australia > > -----Original Message----- > From: carol [mailto:carol@wakefieldfhs.org.uk] > Sent: Sunday, 5 December 2004 9:05 > To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [MORAY] Lands and People of Moray > > > I have a few of these very informative A5 booklets. They are jam packed > with lists of names, info about the period, small transcripts from original > documents and maps. > > Very interesting and Bruce Bishop deserves a medal for his compilations. > > Carol > Admin Moray Mailing List > www.wakefieldfhs.org.uk/morayweb > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Krista Mann" <kmann@ra.rockwell.com> > To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 5:41 PM > Subject: [MORAY] Lands and People of Moray > > >> Lands and People of Moray, Mortcloth dues etc. A5. >> Lands and People of Moray, Part 9. A5. >> Lands and People of Moray, Part 10. A5. >> Lands and People of Moray, Part 13. A5. >> Lands and People of Moray, Part 14. A5. >> >> Does anyone have any of these? What are these books like? What type of >> information do they offer? If anyone has any of these in particular, >> would you be willing to look up the surname MAN or MANN? >> >> Thanks in advance, >> Krista Mann >> Searching Mann, Taylor, Ettles, Bremner, Panton >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== >> MORAY OPR's. The OPR's for the Moray area are now starting to be >> transcribed and volunteers are needed. Would anyone interested in >> transcribing the OPR's for our area please contact me via my usual email >> address or visit the Moray Rootsweb pages and contact me via the mailing >> list Admin. >> >> ============================== >> Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. >> Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx >> >>

My Nanna was christened Jessie, in 1922, but most of the time was called Cissie (Sissy - quite a strange name in todays times!). The Janets or Jessies I have found in her tree were her 2nd Great Grandmother (Janet 1802), Great Grand Aunt (Janet - 1838) and Grand Aunt (Jessie - 1861). These were all on her maternal Grandmothers side and theres been none since. Julia Dundee, Scotland

Hi all I always thought the Outlaw was probably Jesse James [i.e. the biblical spelling, not Jessie], but I've googled him and both spellings seem to be used in U.S. websites. Missouri state seems to prefer Jessie but Genealogy.com uses Jesse. I suspect there is a parallel naming here. Anyway the concensus is clearly that there is no link between the male and female names, Jessie. However I suspect our American cousins are on the way to confusing the boundary. A living language - even the insults are poetic [ish]! Regards to everyone who has contributed. Ray Gavin Bellsent this reply to gordon Duffus: Subject: Re:[MORAY] Jessie > Gordon wrote: > > > ... I know that that name, in the US at least, is also/only a male's > > name..... like Jessie James infamous outlaw in the 1800's). > > I thought that was JESSE James > > > Was the name Jessie, in Scotland at least, always a female name? > > Yes. Or an insult. As in: "you couldna pu' the skin aff a rice > pudden, ye big Jessie!" > > > Gavin Bell >

Ray, A rainy, cold day here in the mountains.......Glad to see you're going full bore with your Names. And I'll add more American info: It is not unusal to find many variations of spellings of both fore and surnames, especially before the 1900's. Some reasons: Generally, people were not educated, many illiterate, and add to that the mix of nationalities. People often spelled what they heard phonetically, or used spellings they were familiar with, even if not correct. If the speaker had an accent or dialect unfamiliar to the enumerator; if the enumerator was of foreign birth or descent; etc, a variety of spellings can be found. In many areas of the country, records were not formally kept by the gov't until 1880's. Many churches were founded by particular nationalities, for example, the Palatines - German/Dutch Reformed/Lutheran; so those types of records used, again, phonetic or German spellings, ie Schultheiss: Schultz, Schults Shults, Shultis, Shultes etc. Sometimes Anglicized, sometimes not. It can be a nightmare! Johannes Schultheiss has many variations of Johannes and of Schultheiss, and if there are more than one Johannes/Johan/Johann/John/Jno.................. Also, the use of particular naming conventions or spellings to denote son vs dau of. The Germans &/or Dutch use es vs us, I think, similarly to the patronymics for Mac, Fitz, O'. Another example from just one French Canadian family that came to NY in the 1800's: the surname Lezette: Licit Liscit Lazat Lezet Lezatte Lezett Lezette Legath Legat (and I found a few others along the way) Cheers, Peigi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Hennessy" <rayhennessy@iclway.co.uk> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 9:02 AM Subject: Re: Re:[MORAY] Jessie > Hi all > > I always thought the Outlaw was probably Jesse James > [i.e. the biblical spelling, not Jessie], but I've googled him > and both spellings seem to be used in U.S. websites. > Missouri state seems to prefer Jessie but Genealogy.com > uses Jesse. I suspect there is a parallel naming here. > > Anyway the concensus is clearly that there is no link > between the male and female names, Jessie. > However I suspect our American cousins are on > the way to confusing the boundary. > A living language - even the insults are poetic [ish]! > > Regards to everyone who has contributed. > > Ray > > Gavin Bellsent this reply to gordon Duffus: > > Subject: Re:[MORAY] Jessie > > > > Gordon wrote: > > > > > ... I know that that name, in the US at least, is also/only a male's > > > name..... like Jessie James infamous outlaw in the 1800's). > > > > I thought that was JESSE James > > > > > Was the name Jessie, in Scotland at least, always a female name? > > > > Yes. Or an insult. As in: "you couldna pu' the skin aff a rice > > pudden, ye big Jessie!" > > > > > > Gavin Bell > > > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > " Reply All " ........Please, please, please, when replying to a posted message make sure that the reply is sent to the list and not just the sender of the message. This is done by clicking " Reply All " Thank you ;-) > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

Hi Chris No evidence of a link between Jessie and Elspet that I have ever seen [that is not a definitive "no" of course]. Janet and Jessie are completely interchangeable in most of Scotland, if not all. Jessie is a straight synonym for Janet, not just a nick-name and friends would use them indiscriminately. However, within the close family, it is quite likely that one name or the other would apply to each individual. Re multiple names: we know of one family where a James had two sons, named Robert and James. They each named their first sons James after their father so there were four James's living in the same house [or ferm toun] in Cairnorrie, Methlick. How they sorted out the individual names isn't recorded: all of them retained the full name throughout all the records we saw [not exhaustive]. Your idea of interchangeability being due to multiple occurrences of the same name in a household isn't registered anywhere that I've seen but it could certainly explain the plethora of Pet Names for some of the most popular ones. Alexander, Elizabeth, Jane, John, Margaret, etc etc have dozens of linked names. If you added "Little" or "Wee" in front of them, you'd get even more. And then there are T-names ... Regards Ray Hennessy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Ridings" <tutu@atu.com.au> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 2:43 PM Subject: RE: [MORAY] Jessie? Janet? Jane? > It would seem to me that the interchangeability of names could stem > from the > way 3rd daughters were traditionally named after their mothers so one > would > have more than one person of the same name within the family hence it > was > probable that the younger one would be called something different. > > In other words interchangeability suggests more than one family person > with > that name. > > I haven't come across Jessie being a nickname for Jane or Janet. > In my Scottish names I have Jessie and Janet but no Janes. > I wondered whether Jessie might have been a diminutive for Elspet as I > have > several of these. > > Chris Ridings

In America JESSIE is female, JESSE is male. And it is Jesse James. My 1st cousin's wife is a relative of his. Cheers, Peigi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gavin Bell" <g.bell@which.net> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 8:18 AM Subject: Re:[MORAY] Jessie > Gordon wrote: > > > ... I know that that name, in the US at least, is also/only a male's > > name..... like Jessie James infamous outlaw in the 1800's). > > I thought that was JESSE James > > > Was the name Jessie, in Scotland at least, always a female name? > > Yes. Or an insult. As in: "you couldna pu' the skin aff a rice pudden, > ye big Jessie!" > > > Gavin Bell > > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > Please do not send virus warnings to this list. If you have concerns about a virus, contact the list admin at MORAY-D-request@rootsweb.com or join VIRUS-DISCUSSIONS-L@rootsweb.com subscribe in the subject line. > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >

Gordon wrote: > ... I know that that name, in the US at least, is also/only a male's > name..... like Jessie James infamous outlaw in the 1800's). I thought that was JESSE James > Was the name Jessie, in Scotland at least, always a female name? Yes. Or an insult. As in: "you couldna pu' the skin aff a rice pudden, ye big Jessie!" Gavin Bell

Here's one website: http://mail.wyoming.com/~msaban/SCTname.htm Lilian Gay King wrote: > Hi everyone, > > The thread I started on Janet/Jessie/Jane has resulted in more questions for > me! > > Would some kind soul please point me in the direction of a website where I > can learn what was the 'naming pattern' in Scottish families for > forenames/first names? > > Also, what are T-names..? > Thanks, > > Gay > > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > Please do not send virus warnings to this list. If you have concerns about a virus, contact the list admin at MORAY-D-request@rootsweb.com or join VIRUS-DISCUSSIONS-L@rootsweb.com subscribe in the subject line. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >