Hi Ian, My gt-gt-gt-gdmother is Margaret REID. My Reids stayed in Deskford for many a long year: the earliest I have is James REID and Janet CLARK who married 12-Jan-1783 Deskford; he may have been son of James REID and Elizabeth GRANT who married 8-Oct-1757 Deskford. There were other Deskford Reids, your Reids among them, but I haven't been able to link them with mine. Maybe you can? I. The following info I have on file probably refers to a son of Alexander Reid and Helen Palmer: 1851 census (enum 1 page 16) Berryhillock, Deskford: Alexander Reid 41 b. Deskford Head Mar Master Tailor Charlotte Reid 43 b. Elgin Wife Mar Master Tailor's wife Charlotte Reid 9 b. Deskford dau Scholar Helen Reid 7 b. Deskford dau Scholar John Reid 5 b. Deskford son Tailor's son I don't have a sighting of them in 1841 - this may merely be because I haven't transcribed their entry. I don't have their entries for 1861/1871, but the couple is still there in 1881: 1881 census (151-3-1) Berryhillock, Deskford Alexander Reid 71 b. Deskford Head Mar Furnishing Tailor emp 1 man Charlotte Reid 71 b. Elgin Wife Mar The wife's maiden name is Cassie. Daughter Helen turns up in Aberdeen in 1881: Volume 168-2 EnumDist 2 Page 11 William D. GEDDES M 52 M Glan, Aberdeen Head Professor Of Greek In Universty Margaret GIBB U 39 F Glasgow, Lanark Servant Housemaid Dom Serv Hellen REID U 37 F Deskford, Banff Servant Housemaid Dom Serv This is from his death registration: "Alexander Reid tailor and clothier (married to Charlotte Cassie) died 31-3-1890 1.30pm age 80 Berryhillock parish of Deskford, of influenza pneumonia 4d. Parents: William Reid (deceased) and Helen Reid ms Palmer (deceased). Inf: John Reid son (present)." - D-1890-Deskford-4. I've found widow Charlotte and son John in Inverurie in 1891: John Reid 45 [actual: 46] b. Deskford head mar general draper ........ Charlotte Currie Reid 82 [actual: 83] b. Elgin mother wid. [Her middle name may have been intended to be Cassie, but got recorded as Currie?] I think the son has got his father's father's name wrong: it ought to be Alexander, not William. This is because there is only the one marriage relating to a Helen Palmer: Helen Palmer & Alexander Reid m. 30-6-1798 Cullen (IGI-M111502) and Helen Palmer & Alexander Reed m. 24-6-1798 Deskford (IGI-M111512) [a personal submission has Helen Palmer & Alexander Reid m. 30-6-1799 Cullen (IGI-7617734) - note that the date is wrong]. Alexander Reid & Helen Palmer had a son James Reid 17-3-1799 Deskford (IGI-7617733): around this time, the IGI has very few entries for Deskford, and for certain the indexing of the Deskford OPR is not right in FamilySearch, so it didn't show any children at all in the normal way one checks for whole families, but I now see that Alexander Reid & Helen Palmer had much more of a family. I've been able to winkle out eight of a family including your Ann bpt 3-11-1802, with the 1799 James and the 1809 Alexander slotting in perfectly, making at least ten of a family. The net result for me is still that they are not obviously related to my Reids, because mine seem to have been in Deskford long before this family came in from Cullen (if that's where they did come from....). However, I am trying to seek these connections. II. I have this info on file, re James Davidson and Margaret Copeland: George DAVIDSON died Beryhillock 5 July 1869 (age 66) married to Ann REID, s/o James DAVIDSON farmer dec. & Margaret COPELAND. In 1851, George was age 48 b.Rathven and Ann was age 48 b.Deskford, and there was family (including your Isabella Davidson, age 10). So now I know the parentage of this Ann Reid. Thanks! III. I have this info on file too, about a John Reid whom I haven't been able to identify yet: Janet BAGRIE d Berryhillock 10 Aug 1869 (87) wid. of Alexander BAGRIE blacksmith, d/o Walter WATT labourer dec. & Ann HEPBURN dec. Informant was John REID grandson, Berryhillock. Regards Howard Geddes

Thanks Ray, Already had her death at 81. But not that of her hubby Alexander b1829. Infact, Helen links into my tree on two points. 1, through her marriage to Alexander Riach and 2. through her grandmother Elspeth. Both going back to Peter 1660' ish I already have her parents Peter Mckerron c1797-1866 and mother Helen Davidson 1792-1881 (those dates I have to check. Peter was a tennementer in Rothes and his parents are not known to me. But he was living in Green Street at the time of his marriage and was a mason journeyman. However, I do know the names of Helen's parents James Davidson dates unknown and Elspeth Riach 1799 - 1863. Elspeth being the child of Adam Riach and Ann Wilson - this Riach lines then goes back to the middle of the 1600's, with offshoots coming off like bind weed. I was sent a family tree years ago, when we still had to put pen to paper, buy a stamp and then wait, and wait for a reply. The hours I looked at this tree and in my sould knew this info fitted in with my tree. I knew that somewhere along the line it was one of the siblings of one of my grandfathers past, that this tree gave all the the other relations. I tried to contact the author of the tree who had put his name and address on - but think he must have died. I must have had the tree over 10 years until, what had been staring me in the face 'clicked'. It was this tree that also told me one of Helen and Alexanders children died in ZA. I was kindly sent info re his marriage by someone on the ZA mailing list. Any other info that you have would be appreciated. Thanks again, Carol Admin Moray Mailing List www.wakefieldfhs.org.uk/morayweb ----- Original Message ----- From: <Aberloursearch@aol.com> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [MORAY] Christmas Guest List - James Riach & Jane A Douglas > Hello Carol, did you know that your Helen McKerron died December 29, 1909 > in > Rothes ? If you would like any further information on this family please > let > me know. > > Regards ray > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > MORAY OPR's. The OPR's for the Moray area are now starting to be > transcribed and volunteers are needed. Would anyone interested in > transcribing the OPR's for our area please contact me via my usual email > address or visit the Moray Rootsweb pages and contact me via the mailing > list Admin. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > >

Hi Ray, Thank you. I didn't have John Grant's birth date or place. These illegitimate births can really leave dotted lines in one's family tree! You had mentioned in an earlier email that you might be able to help me with details of James Stuart (b. 1838, Feb 11) parents: William Stuart/Janet Richardson. From IGI I have William Stuart's parents as Gordon Stuart and Elspet Gordon; but have not yet explored Janet Richardson's line. Also, Jane (Jean) McBeath's 1st born, William Ross, my Gt. Grandfather, was fathered by a George Ross. I think this Geo. Ross is (the son of Gray Ross and Margaret Tough,) b. May 26, 1832 in Mortlach. Have you explored this line at all?? Again, the dotted lines, etc, etc. Wish Jane McBeath had understood which side of the blanket was 'best'! Thank you for the info. Gay In Canada -----Original Message----- From: Aberloursearch@aol.com [mailto:Aberloursearch@aol.com] Sent: December 12, 2004 3:51 PM To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MORAY] Another STUART household mystery Hello Gay, You ask about the relationship between James Grant born Aberlour November 11, 1880 and Jessie Ann Grant born Aberlour April 14, 1884 to James Stuart and Jane McBeath, as you know they are listed on the 1891 census as their grand children, actually they are the grandchildren only of Jane McBeath. Her daughter from a previous relationship Jane McIntosh born c. 1863 in Forres had these two children by John Grant who was born December 19, 1857 in Whitehouse Aberlour. Hope this helps with your research. Regards Ray ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== MORAY OPR's. The OPR's for the Moray area are now starting to be transcribed and volunteers are needed. Would anyone interested in transcribing the OPR's for our area please contact me via my usual email address or visit the Moray Rootsweb pages and contact me via the mailing list Admin. ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx

Hello Carol, did you know that your Helen McKerron died December 29, 1909 in Rothes ? If you would like any further information on this family please let me know. Regards ray

Hello Gay, You ask about the relationship between James Grant born Aberlour November 11, 1880 and Jessie Ann Grant born Aberlour April 14, 1884 to James Stuart and Jane McBeath, as you know they are listed on the 1891 census as their grand children, actually they are the grandchildren only of Jane McBeath. Her daughter from a previous relationship Jane McIntosh born c. 1863 in Forres had these two children by John Grant who was born December 19, 1857 in Whitehouse Aberlour. Hope this helps with your research. Regards Ray

to former members of the Cabrach Club and anyone with upper Cabrach connections: could you please contact Ross Miller at the kotuku media address (above) to verify current addressing. Have some new information, especially relating to Sheed and Kellas, but also the area in general. Cheers Ross Sue and Ross Miller Kotuku Media Ltd 64 4 233 1842 0274 510 339 - Sue 027 246 7682 - Ross 112 Pope Street, Camborne, Wellington

Hi, I have few church weddings in my predominantly Scottish family trees. Tradition in the early days for it to be in the Brides Home.Even after emigrating it was continued. Barbara ----- Original Message ----- From: "carol" <carol@wakefieldfhs.org.uk> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 4:50 AM Subject: Non Church weddings > Was sent a small family tree this morning from someone asking if I was > related to them - yes, I am. > > But a few if the weddings have been in what look like private dwellings > > i.e. 10 High Street, Bishopmill, Elgin during 1889. This is the first time > I've come across non church weddings prior to the early 1900's > > Was this a common occurance ? > > My parents were not married in church but in the Tower Hotel in the 1950's - > was that similar to a Register Office wedding ? > > Carol > Admin Moray Mailing List > www.wakefieldfhs.org.uk/morayweb > > ______________________________

> But a few if the weddings have been in what look like private dwellings > i.e. 10 High Street, Bishopmill, Elgin during 1889. This is the first > time I've come across non church weddings prior to the early 1900's I am astonished, because that's exactly the opposite to what I have come across. > Was this a common occurance ? Very common indeed. The vast majority of the marriages in my tree between 1855 and about 1920 were not celebrated in a church. > My parents were not married in church but in the Tower Hotel in the > 1950's - was that similar to a Register Office wedding ? No, because they would still have had a religious wedding - been married by a minister. As I understand it, until recently you could be married pretty much anywhere the minister was prepared to go if you were either married by a minister or (until about the 1930s) by declaration before two witnesses anywhere you chose. The recent change allows a non-religious marriage in places other than a Register Office which has been the only possible place for a secular wedding since marriage by declaration was done away with. I just did a wee experiment. In my tree I have some 1100 marriages in Scotland between 1855 and 1930. I looked at each in turn (alphabetically by surname) and it was about the 30th one before I came across one actually celebrated in a church - and that was in 1926. Almost all those before 1900 were celebrated either in the bride's home, her place of work, or the parish manse. From the late 1800s there began to be weddings in hotels and such-like places, and from about after the first World War there began to be church ceremonies. Anne

Thanks for the info. I take it that weddings were on the relativly small side Carol Admin Moray Mailing List www.wakefieldfhs.org.uk/morayweb ----- Original Message ----- From: <IACSCOTT@aol.com> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [MORAY] Non Church weddings > > In a message dated 11/12/2004 15:51:15 GMT Standard Time, > carol@wakefieldfhs.org.uk writes: > > Was sent a small family tree this morning from someone asking if I was > related to them - yes, I am. > > But a few if the weddings have been in what look like private dwellings > > i.e. 10 High Street, Bishopmill, Elgin during 1889. This is the first > time > I've come across non church weddings prior to the early 1900's > Was this a common occurrence ? > > > > > Yes, it was quite normal for the marriage to take place at the home of > the > bride. I have several examples of this prior to 1900 and in one case the > bride > was married at the home of her mother's sister whom she went to live with > after her father's death and her mother's remarriage. Her brother and > sister > went to live with another aunt and I have concluded that when their > mother > remarried either her new husband, who had three children of his own, did > not want > to have them or they did not want to go there. There were five further > children from the second marriage. > > My parents were not married in church but in the Tower Hotel in the > 1950's - > was that similar to a Register Office wedding? > > Not if it was performed by a clergyman. My Grandfather was a Church of > Scotland Minister and when he remarried after my Grandmother's death the > marriage > took place in the Douglas Hotel, Bath Street, Glasgow and performed by > one of > his close colleagues. Later in 1928 when my mother married she followed > example and was married in the same place by Rev R S Calderwood, Minister > of > Cambuslang Parish Church in whose Parish she lived. Remember that in > Scotland it > was the Clergyman and not the place which was registered for marriages. > > Ian A C Scott > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > Please do not send virus warnings to this list. If you have concerns > about a virus, contact the list admin at MORAY-D-request@rootsweb.com or > join VIRUS-DISCUSSIONS-L@rootsweb.com subscribe in the subject line. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > >

Was sent a small family tree this morning from someone asking if I was related to them - yes, I am. But a few if the weddings have been in what look like private dwellings i.e. 10 High Street, Bishopmill, Elgin during 1889. This is the first time I've come across non church weddings prior to the early 1900's Was this a common occurance ? My parents were not married in church but in the Tower Hotel in the 1950's - was that similar to a Register Office wedding ? Carol Admin Moray Mailing List www.wakefieldfhs.org.uk/morayweb

Hi Carole I suspect many of them were but with the clergyman able to perform the marriage ceremony at any location chosen by the parties to the marriage a local hall could be used if the guests were numerous. You will find marriages took place in Hotels, Village Halls and even Masonic Halls to mention a few as well as private addresses. Ian

Researching the following names Davidson/Reid/Ingram with connection's to the McLean's Isabella Davidson b. Aug.5th.1840 Deskford, Father George Davidson b.June 6th.1802 Rathven. Mother Ann Reid B.Nov.3rd.1802 Deskford George's parents were James Davidson b. Feb.20th.1797 Rathven, & Margaret Copeland Ann's parents were Alexander Reid b. June 30th.1799 Cullen,& Helen Palmer William McLean b.May 23rd 1844 Rathven Father James McLean b.Dec.14th.1814 Forglen Mother Anne"Jane" Ingram b. about 1817 James' parents were Alexander McLean b. July 17th.1796 Turriff, & Elizabeth Laird Anne's parents were Thomas Ingram, & Margaret Bennet Anyone with connections please contact Ian McLean ianmclean2000@yahoo.com Ian in Canada --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. Learn more.

Thanks for that explanation, Gavin, as I too was wondering how a T name would look. At least I now know that its not something that would put us right of the scent of success. Cheers Heather ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gavin Bell" <g.bell@which.net> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:37 AM Subject: Re:[MORAY] Tee-Names > Chris wrote: > > > I gathered re T-names that it could designate a place, e.g. Campbell > > of Breadlebane, Cameron of Lochiel, Murray of Athol. > > Is this correct? > > No. These are definitely not tee-names. They are territorial > designations, linking the surname (Campbell, Cameron etc) with a stretch > of country. They are common among the nobility and gentry, but exist in a > modified form among more humble folk. In former years it was quite common > (and I am told that the custom has not yet died out) to name a man after > the farm that occupied,whether or not he owned it. > > Nor are tee-names like double-barrelled surnames ("Mary Grant-Smith") as > Gay suggested. The "tee" or extra part is not usually like any ordinary > surname. In fact tee-names generally look and sound more like nicknames > - it's just that they are hereditary. > > Other Listers will probably have more up-to-date examples, but there are > some quoted in the "New Statistical Account" for Cullen, in 1842: > > " ... > there are several heads of families of the respective names of Alexander > Addison, James Addison, and William Addison, who are thus distinguished, > viz. Alexander Addison, 'Saunders'; Alexander Addison, 'Kitty's Saunie'; > Alexander Addison, 'Drodlie'; James Addison, 'Kitty's Jamesy'; James > Addison, 'Tatie Fiddler'; James Addison, 'Bubblie'; William Addison, > 'Sheepie'; William Addison, 'Boatierow'; William Addison, 'Calkinapin'; > William Addison, 'May's Wilsie'" > > > Gavin Bell > > ______________________________

In a message dated 11/12/2004 15:51:15 GMT Standard Time, carol@wakefieldfhs.org.uk writes: Was sent a small family tree this morning from someone asking if I was related to them - yes, I am. But a few if the weddings have been in what look like private dwellings i.e. 10 High Street, Bishopmill, Elgin during 1889. This is the first time I've come across non church weddings prior to the early 1900's Was this a common occurrence ? Yes, it was quite normal for the marriage to take place at the home of the bride. I have several examples of this prior to 1900 and in one case the bride was married at the home of her mother's sister whom she went to live with after her father's death and her mother's remarriage. Her brother and sister went to live with another aunt and I have concluded that when their mother remarried either her new husband, who had three children of his own, did not want to have them or they did not want to go there. There were five further children from the second marriage. My parents were not married in church but in the Tower Hotel in the 1950's - was that similar to a Register Office wedding? Not if it was performed by a clergyman. My Grandfather was a Church of Scotland Minister and when he remarried after my Grandmother's death the marriage took place in the Douglas Hotel, Bath Street, Glasgow and performed by one of his close colleagues. Later in 1928 when my mother married she followed example and was married in the same place by Rev R S Calderwood, Minister of Cambuslang Parish Church in whose Parish she lived. Remember that in Scotland it was the Clergyman and not the place which was registered for marriages. Ian A C Scott

In a message dated 12/11/2004 10:51:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, carol@wakefieldfhs.org.uk writes: > But a few if the weddings have been in what look like private dwellings > > Was this a common occurance ? > During my last research visit to Elgin in 2000, I found the following transcription in the Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages at the Elgin Registry: 'Marriage: Angus Campbell and Isabella Bannerman, January 26, 1877 at 13 Batchen Lane, Elgin after Banns, according to the Forms of the U. P. Church' Angus Campbell was my gg-grandfather and this was his second marriage after my gg-grandmother died. 13 Batchen Lane, off High Street, is close to the center of town, and now part of the retail shop area (behind the Pet Shop). In 1877 I'm sure it was a private residence. Angus was age 59 at the time. He eventually became the manager of The Baths (now The Beach Bar) in Lossiemouth where he died in 1888. I have not been able to find his gravesite. Gordon Campbell Lawrence

I would like to ask Carol what the difference is between posting to the list at MORAY-L@rootsweb.com and using a Message Board? Can you give an example when it would be wiser for us to use the latter? Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "carol" <carol@wakefieldfhs.org.uk> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:27 PM Subject: [MORAY] Message board > Hello All, > > Just a short note to let you know that the notice/messageboard for this site > is now live. Entry via the messageboard box on > http://www.wakefieldfhs.org.uk/morayweb/index.htm > > You have to register (free) but then you are able to add messages aswell as > access messages posted by other researchers. > > I have taken the decision to have a 'registered' board as a few boards and > guestbooks that I know of, including my own, have had material of a nature > that is not acceptable. My local family history soc guest book had an entry > that opened at the same time as the guestbook - caused a little bit of > upset as members were asking their older and younger relatives to visit. > > I therefore, hope that you will understand why that decision was made. I > also have greater access to delete messages and ban addressers and ISP's. > > The admin section also allows me to add message boards if anyone wishes the > addition of surname, clan or county board or a board for any subject that > may be of interest to others. > > Carol > Admin Moray Mailing List > www.wakefieldfhs.org.uk/morayweb > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > Don't forget that if you delete a message, you can always visit the archives of this list http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MORAY/. The archives are also worth looking at, whether you be a new or established lister. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >

Hello All, Just a short note to let you know that the notice/messageboard for this site is now live. Entry via the messageboard box on http://www.wakefieldfhs.org.uk/morayweb/index.htm You have to register (free) but then you are able to add messages aswell as access messages posted by other researchers. I have taken the decision to have a 'registered' board as a few boards and guestbooks that I know of, including my own, have had material of a nature that is not acceptable. My local family history soc guest book had an entry that opened at the same time as the guestbook - caused a little bit of upset as members were asking their older and younger relatives to visit. I therefore, hope that you will understand why that decision was made. I also have greater access to delete messages and ban addressers and ISP's. The admin section also allows me to add message boards if anyone wishes the addition of surname, clan or county board or a board for any subject that may be of interest to others. Carol Admin Moray Mailing List www.wakefieldfhs.org.uk/morayweb

Thank you, Gavin, for straightening this out. It would seem to me that some surnames would have themselves derived from nicknames, e.g. Armstrong (very early), and possibly other names like Quartermain (four hands), Campbell, Cameron. Some other surnames like Sim, Sime, Gibb, Law, and Low derive from abbreviations of christian names and I have found several of these associated as septs with clans. It seems that T-names appear to be elastic and varied over time and place? I gather that once surnames became set, T-names were nicknames that didn't usually become surnames themselves unless for exceptional reasons. I understand that when Clan MacGregor was proscribed, members often changed their names to Grigg, Gregory or something less offensive to authority. There is a story behind every name, I'm told. Chris Ridings -----Original Message----- From: Gavin Bell [mailto:g.bell@which.net] Sent: Friday, 10 December 2004 8:37 To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re:[MORAY] Tee-Names Chris wrote: > I gathered re T-names that it could designate a place, e.g. Campbell > of Breadlebane, Cameron of Lochiel, Murray of Athol. > Is this correct? No. These are definitely not tee-names. They are territorial designations, linking the surname (Campbell, Cameron etc) with a stretch of country. They are common among the nobility and gentry, but exist in a modified form among more humble folk. In former years it was quite common (and I am told that the custom has not yet died out) to name a man after the farm that occupied,whether or not he owned it. Nor are tee-names like double-barrelled surnames ("Mary Grant-Smith") as Gay suggested. The "tee" or extra part is not usually like any ordinary surname. In fact tee-names generally look and sound more like nicknames - it's just that they are hereditary. Other Listers will probably have more up-to-date examples, but there are some quoted in the "New Statistical Account" for Cullen, in 1842: " ... there are several heads of families of the respective names of Alexander Addison, James Addison, and William Addison, who are thus distinguished, viz. Alexander Addison, 'Saunders'; Alexander Addison, 'Kitty's Saunie'; Alexander Addison, 'Drodlie'; James Addison, 'Kitty's Jamesy'; James Addison, 'Tatie Fiddler'; James Addison, 'Bubblie'; William Addison, 'Sheepie'; William Addison, 'Boatierow'; William Addison, 'Calkinapin'; William Addison, 'May's Wilsie'" Gavin Bell ______________________________

To the best of my knowledge, historically, whether called witnesses, sponsors, or godparents, their main duty was to ensure the moral and religious education of the child. In some times/cultures, their duties also included physical and financial responsibility in the event of the parents death before the child's majority. Quite often, even if the parents survived, a male child would be assisted in obtaining education, a job or apprenticeship. A female child would be helped to obtain a better marriage. Thus the practice of trying to get witnesses from a higher social/economic standing than the parents, especially for younger sons. -- Jo-Ann Croft

Chris wrote: > I gathered re T-names that it could designate a place, e.g. Campbell > of Breadlebane, Cameron of Lochiel, Murray of Athol. > Is this correct? No. These are definitely not tee-names. They are territorial designations, linking the surname (Campbell, Cameron etc) with a stretch of country. They are common among the nobility and gentry, but exist in a modified form among more humble folk. In former years it was quite common (and I am told that the custom has not yet died out) to name a man after the farm that occupied,whether or not he owned it. Nor are tee-names like double-barrelled surnames ("Mary Grant-Smith") as Gay suggested. The "tee" or extra part is not usually like any ordinary surname. In fact tee-names generally look and sound more like nicknames - it's just that they are hereditary. Other Listers will probably have more up-to-date examples, but there are some quoted in the "New Statistical Account" for Cullen, in 1842: " ... there are several heads of families of the respective names of Alexander Addison, James Addison, and William Addison, who are thus distinguished, viz. Alexander Addison, 'Saunders'; Alexander Addison, 'Kitty's Saunie'; Alexander Addison, 'Drodlie'; James Addison, 'Kitty's Jamesy'; James Addison, 'Tatie Fiddler'; James Addison, 'Bubblie'; William Addison, 'Sheepie'; William Addison, 'Boatierow'; William Addison, 'Calkinapin'; William Addison, 'May's Wilsie'" Gavin Bell