Alex wrote: > Ian aked for an explanation of the difference between writting to a > Message Board and the Moray List. > I may have missed the reply so could it be put on the List or sent > directly to me as I've never understoon this either. If you subscribe to the List, you will be sent a copy of everything posted to the List and also (because the Listowner has set up a link) everything posted to the equivalent Board. But if you use the Board, you will not see ordinary messages posted to the List. Gavin Bell

Kaj, I would be very interested to see what information you get regarding INNES. My INNES connection is from Banffshire - John Innes who married a Sarah WELSTED or NEILSTED. We know of at least 1 daughter Helen who was born approximately 1810 and that she eventually moved to Knockando, Moray. Cheers, Kathryn -----Original Message----- From: Kaj Andersson [mailto:kaj.andersson@kajan.com] Sent: Thursday, 16 December 2004 6:50 AM To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [MORAY] Clan Innes to west Sweden The two brothers Robert and Alexander Innes arrives to Gothenburg, Sweden, some time before 1769, from Banffshire. They´ve already got a half brother John Tarras in Gothenburg on their mothers side, earlier married to a merchant Tarras who died early, whereafter the widow married a Robert Innes. John Tarras was probably born in Banff 1732, and arrived to Gothenburg around 1758. Some years later the two brothers Robert and Alexander Innes arrived to Sweden. Some source claims that Robert was born 1745, my own research indicates that Alexander was born 1763. Robert is one of 20 men, many Scots, who founded the Royal Bachelors Club in Gothenburg. Robert has signed the charter in november 1769. This indicates that their arrival in Sweden should be approx. 1764-1768. During these years, Sweden was ruled by Gustaf III, who actually banned this kind of private clubs by the law. However, the 20 men convinced the King and they were allowed to found it. Still today, this Royal Bachelors Club has the swedish King as a superior member. Is there anyone in Moray or Banffshire, familiar with the clan of Innes, who can help me find the link between Scotland and Sweden? Who were the parents of Robert and Alexander Innes? If my clues are correct his first name should be Robert. Unfortunately, I havent been able to find a possible Robert Innes in Banffshire. Regards, Kaj Andersson Gothenburg, Sweden ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== If you need to unsub for your holidays, change your email address, or report anything to the admin of the list - all this information can be found at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/SCT/MORAY.html ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx

Hi Gavin & et al, Perhaps I am mistaken but I thought it was the other way around ?? I have posted queries on various "Boards" where they remain indefinately. The Board query is, as you have stated, copied to the List with a Link back to the original board and is therefore made a available to all List & Digest subscribers. If a response is posted on the List in reply to the original Board query, it will not appear as Threaded to the query. To respond to a query originally posted on a Board, it can only be accomplished if it is Threaded to that Board Message and will remain there indefinately. George in Ottawa. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >From: Gavin Bell <g.bell@which.net> >Reply-To: g.bell@which.net, g.bell@which.net >To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re:[MORAY] List vs Board >Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:56:22 +0000 > >Alex wrote: > > > Ian aked for an explanation of the difference between writting to a > > Message Board and the Moray List. > > > I may have missed the reply so could it be put on the List or sent > > directly to me as I've never understoon this either. > >If you subscribe to the List, you will be sent a copy of everything >posted to the List and also (because the Listowner has set up a link) >everything posted to the equivalent Board. > >But if you use the Board, you will not see ordinary messages posted to >the List. > > >Gavin Bell > > > > > > > >==== MORAY Mailing List ==== >Don't forget that if you delete a message, you can always visit the >archives of this list http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MORAY/. The >archives are also worth looking at, whether you be a new or established >lister. > >============================== >Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the >areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. >Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >

Ian aked for an explanation of the difference between writting to a Message Board and the Moray List. I may have missed the reply so could it be put on the List or sent directly to me as I've never understoon this either. Alex Davidson

The two brothers Robert and Alexander Innes arrives to Gothenburg, Sweden, some time before 1769, from Banffshire. They´ve already got a half brother John Tarras in Gothenburg on their mothers side, earlier married to a merchant Tarras who died early, whereafter the widow married a Robert Innes. John Tarras was probably born in Banff 1732, and arrived to Gothenburg around 1758. Some years later the two brothers Robert and Alexander Innes arrived to Sweden. Some source claims that Robert was born 1745, my own research indicates that Alexander was born 1763. Robert is one of 20 men, many Scots, who founded the Royal Bachelors Club in Gothenburg. Robert has signed the charter in november 1769. This indicates that their arrival in Sweden should be approx. 1764-1768. During these years, Sweden was ruled by Gustaf III, who actually banned this kind of private clubs by the law. However, the 20 men convinced the King and they were allowed to found it. Still today, this Royal Bachelors Club has the swedish King as a superior member. Is there anyone in Moray or Banffshire, familiar with the clan of Innes, who can help me find the link between Scotland and Sweden? Who were the parents of Robert and Alexander Innes? If my clues are correct his first name should be Robert. Unfortunately, I havent been able to find a possible Robert Innes in Banffshire. Regards, Kaj Andersson Gothenburg, Sweden

Hi Gay I have the feeling these are both localised family nick-names. Presumably no-one else has a similar conversion of Jessie or Mary to Ciss or Cissie. I'd love to find a valid reason for it if there are any suggestions. However, as things stand, I'd be reluctant to suggest that anyone looking for a Jessie or a Mary should consider Ciss/ie in their researches - but stranger links have surfaced! I suspect that Anne Burgess has got the right of the matter: Ciss is a generic nick-name. Could it be a variant of Sis i.e. Sister? Thanks for the input. Best wishes to the list. Ray H ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gay King" <gayking@aci.on.ca> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 2:33 PM Subject: RE: Re:[MORAY] Jessie > Hi everyone, > I have another one for your website, Ray. > My husband's grandmother's name was Mary but her marriage > cert. gave her forename as Ciss. > The family has no idea where the name came from. > Gay > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ray Hennessy [mailto:rayhennessy@iclway.co.uk] > Sent: December 15, 2004 8:23 AM > To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: Re:[MORAY] Jessie > > Hi Julia > > I don't think I can take Cissie or Sissy on board as a pet name for > Jessie; it's generally thought to be for Cecily, as I understand it. > > As you may have detected, for sometime now I have been > developing a web-site covering Forenames. I've started > with Scottish ones but am extending it to include Latin > Equivalents for old documents and Gaelic versions. > It gives Synonyms, Pet Names, [i.e. Nick-names], > Derivatives and Diminutives/Abbreviations. It is nearly > ready for launch and I want interested people to give it a > good rubbishing. The site is at > > http://www.whatsinaname.net/index.html > > The CONTACT US button works & I would welcome ANY > comment and, in particular, suggestions for improvements. > We are going to go over the presentational aspect of the layout > soon - buttons down the left side, some grey background, > a tighter heading, etc, but honestly, any suggestions at all > would be very useful. > > Best wishes and thanks for your input. > > Ray H > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Julia Mudd" <j.m.mudd@dundee.ac.uk> > To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 2:08 PM > Subject: Re:[MORAY] Jessie > > >> My Nanna was christened Jessie, in 1922, but most of >> the time was called Cissie (Sissy - quite a strange name >> in todays times!). >> >> The Janets or Jessies I have found in her tree were her >> 2nd Great Grandmother (Janet 1802), Great Grand Aunt >> (Janet - 1838) and Grand Aunt (Jessie - 1861). >> These were all on her maternal Grandmothers side and >> theres been none since. >> >> Julia >> Dundee, Scotland >>

Hi List Ooops as they say! I hadn't intended the note to Julia to be circulated far and wide - I forgot to adjust the "To" box. The WHAT'S IN A NAME website will be in a state of FLUX for the next two weeks and will not be able to cope with a large load until the New Year. So far I've asked about 50-60 people to help me de-bug the system and point out the rough edges and the 40 who have replied have responded favourably. So, if anyone on the MORAY list is sufficiently intrigued to have a look at the site [http://www.whatsinaname.net/index.html] please do so and let me know if you have ANY feelings about it. One additional thing to point out. People have asked to be able to browse the list of names. You could do that by searching on a plain asterisk [*] but be aware that you'll get about 2000 names and variations back which will [a] gum up your link and [b] take a lots of reading time. If you want to browse names beginning with B, search on B* and you'll get that subset. Have fun and please do let me know what you think via the CONTACT US button. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Hennessy" <rayhennessy@iclway.co.uk> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 1:23 PM Subject: Re: Re:[MORAY] Jessie > Hi Julia > > I don't think I can take Cissie or Sissy on board as a pet name for > Jessie; it's generally thought to be for Cecily, as I understand it. > > As you may have detected, for sometime now I have been developing a > web-site covering Forenames. I've started with Scottish ones but am > extending it to include Latin Equivalents for old documents and Gaelic > versions. It gives Synonyms, Pet Names, [i.e. Nick-names], > Derivatives and Diminutives/Abbreviations. It is nearly ready for > launch and I want interested people to give it a good rubbishing. The > site is at > http://www.whatsinaname.net/index.html > > The CONTACT US button works and I would welcome ANY comment and, in > particular, suggestions for improvements. We are going to go over the > presentational aspect of the layout soon - buttons down the left side, > some grey background, a tighter heading, etc, but honestly, any > suggestions at all would be very useful. > > Best wishes and thanks for your input. > > Ray H >

Aren't Sissie, Ciss, Siss, & Cissie a families' nick name for Sister? In the American South, that is often the case....... & the American South was 'stocked' with Scots and Scotch-Irish. Gordon Gordon Ray Hennessy wrote: > Hi Gay > > I have the feeling these are both localised family nick-names. > Presumably no-one else has a similar conversion of Jessie or Mary to > Ciss or Cissie. I'd love to find a valid reason for it if there are any > suggestions. > > However, as things stand, I'd be reluctant to suggest that > anyone looking for a Jessie or a Mary should consider Ciss/ie in their > researches - but stranger links have surfaced! I suspect that Anne > Burgess has got the right of the matter: Ciss is a generic nick-name. > Could it be a variant of Sis i.e. Sister? > > Thanks for the input. > > Best wishes to the list. > > Ray H > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gay King" <gayking@aci.on.ca> > To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 2:33 PM > Subject: RE: Re:[MORAY] Jessie > > >> Hi everyone, >> I have another one for your website, Ray. >> My husband's grandmother's name was Mary but her marriage >> cert. gave her forename as Ciss. >> The family has no idea where the name came from. >> Gay >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ray Hennessy [mailto:rayhennessy@iclway.co.uk] >> Sent: December 15, 2004 8:23 AM >> To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: Re:[MORAY] Jessie >> >> Hi Julia >> >> I don't think I can take Cissie or Sissy on board as a pet name for >> Jessie; it's generally thought to be for Cecily, as I understand it. >> >> As you may have detected, for sometime now I have been >> developing a web-site covering Forenames. I've started >> with Scottish ones but am extending it to include Latin >> Equivalents for old documents and Gaelic versions. >> It gives Synonyms, Pet Names, [i.e. Nick-names], >> Derivatives and Diminutives/Abbreviations. It is nearly >> ready for launch and I want interested people to give it a >> good rubbishing. The site is at >> >> http://www.whatsinaname.net/index.html >> >> The CONTACT US button works & I would welcome ANY >> comment and, in particular, suggestions for improvements. >> We are going to go over the presentational aspect of the layout >> soon - buttons down the left side, some grey background, >> a tighter heading, etc, but honestly, any suggestions at all >> would be very useful. >> >> Best wishes and thanks for your input. >> >> Ray H >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julia Mudd" <j.m.mudd@dundee.ac.uk> >> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 2:08 PM >> Subject: Re:[MORAY] Jessie >> >> >>> My Nanna was christened Jessie, in 1922, but most of >>> the time was called Cissie (Sissy - quite a strange name >>> in todays times!). >>> >>> The Janets or Jessies I have found in her tree were her >>> 2nd Great Grandmother (Janet 1802), Great Grand Aunt >>> (Janet - 1838) and Grand Aunt (Jessie - 1861). >>> These were all on her maternal Grandmothers side and >>> theres been none since. >>> >>> Julia >>> Dundee, Scotland >>> > > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > Please do not send virus warnings to this list. If you have concerns > about a virus, contact the list admin at MORAY-D-request@rootsweb.com > or join VIRUS-DISCUSSIONS-L@rootsweb.com subscribe in the subject line. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > >

> I don't think I can take Cissie or Sissy on board as a pet name for > Jessie; it's generally thought to be for Cecily, as I understand it. I reckon that Cis or Cissie is much commoner than Cecily or Cecilia ever was. I have a Cissie whose birth certificate calls her Lizzie! I suspect that Cis(sie) is a bit like Bunty - a nickname that doesn't have any specific association with a particular given name. Anne

Hi Julia I don't think I can take Cissie or Sissy on board as a pet name for Jessie; it's generally thought to be for Cecily, as I understand it. As you may have detected, for sometime now I have been developing a web-site covering Forenames. I've started with Scottish ones but am extending it to include Latin Equivalents for old documents and Gaelic versions. It gives Synonyms, Pet Names, [i.e. Nick-names], Derivatives and Diminutives/Abbreviations. It is nearly ready for launch and I want interested people to give it a good rubbishing. The site is at http://www.whatsinaname.net/index.html The CONTACT US button works and I would welcome ANY comment and, in particular, suggestions for improvements. We are going to go over the presentational aspect of the layout soon - buttons down the left side, some grey background, a tighter heading, etc, but honestly, any suggestions at all would be very useful. Best wishes and thanks for your input. Ray H ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julia Mudd" <j.m.mudd@dundee.ac.uk> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 2:08 PM Subject: Re:[MORAY] Jessie > My Nanna was christened Jessie, in 1922, but most of the time was > called > Cissie (Sissy - quite a strange name in todays times!). > > The Janets or Jessies I have found in her tree were her 2nd Great > Grandmother (Janet 1802), Great Grand Aunt (Janet - 1838) and Grand > Aunt > (Jessie - 1861). These were all on her maternal Grandmothers side and > theres been none since. > > Julia > Dundee, Scotland > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > Please do not send virus warnings to this list. If you have concerns > about a virus, contact the list admin at MORAY-D-request@rootsweb.com > or join VIRUS-DISCUSSIONS-L@rootsweb.com subscribe in the subject > line. > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx >

I believe so. I have an Elizabeth in my line, and she was always called Sis. Never by her proper name. Sharon --- Ray Hennessy <rayhennessy@iclway.co.uk> wrote: I > suspect that Anne > Burgess has got the right of the matter: Ciss is a > generic nick-name. > Could it be a variant of Sis i.e. Sister? > ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

Hi Karen, I cannot answer your query regarding MACKIE being derived from McClean. I am interested in the parents, and grandparents of tour Grandfather. The MACKIE line that I am researching include Joseph MACKIE, born 1766 Rothes, Moray, married Grizel (Grace) NAIRN 21 June 1792 at Forres. We believe his parents were Thomas MACKIE, born c.1720 Kinloss, Moray, who married Isabel MANN 1750 Edinkillie, Moray. Thomas's parents were James MACKIE, born about 1680, & Katherine LAMB (IAMBIE) who married 1716. Joseph & Grace MACKIE's youngest son ,James born 1815 Forres, migrated to Australia in 1853. Joseph was a Master baker in Forres, and later in Nairn, and several of his sons were also bakers - James was a baker on the Victorian goldfields, and then a farmer in the same area. I believe he also went to NZ following the gold rush there. Regards, Colleen R. Mentone Victoria Australia.

Hi everyone, I have another one for your website, Ray. My husband's grandmother's name was Mary but her marriage cert. gave her forename as Ciss. The family has no idea where the name came from. Gay -----Original Message----- From: Ray Hennessy [mailto:rayhennessy@iclway.co.uk] Sent: December 15, 2004 8:23 AM To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Re:[MORAY] Jessie Hi Julia I don't think I can take Cissie or Sissy on board as a pet name for Jessie; it's generally thought to be for Cecily, as I understand it. As you may have detected, for sometime now I have been developing a web-site covering Forenames. I've started with Scottish ones but am extending it to include Latin Equivalents for old documents and Gaelic versions. It gives Synonyms, Pet Names, [i.e. Nick-names], Derivatives and Diminutives/Abbreviations. It is nearly ready for launch and I want interested people to give it a good rubbishing. The site is at http://www.whatsinaname.net/index.html The CONTACT US button works and I would welcome ANY comment and, in particular, suggestions for improvements. We are going to go over the presentational aspect of the layout soon - buttons down the left side, some grey background, a tighter heading, etc, but honestly, any suggestions at all would be very useful. Best wishes and thanks for your input. Ray H ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julia Mudd" <j.m.mudd@dundee.ac.uk> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 2:08 PM Subject: Re:[MORAY] Jessie > My Nanna was christened Jessie, in 1922, but most of the time was > called > Cissie (Sissy - quite a strange name in todays times!). > > The Janets or Jessies I have found in her tree were her 2nd Great > Grandmother (Janet 1802), Great Grand Aunt (Janet - 1838) and Grand > Aunt > (Jessie - 1861). These were all on her maternal Grandmothers side and > theres been none since. > > Julia > Dundee, Scotland > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > Please do not send virus warnings to this list. If you have concerns > about a virus, contact the list admin at MORAY-D-request@rootsweb.com > or join VIRUS-DISCUSSIONS-L@rootsweb.com subscribe in the subject > line. > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== MORAY OPR's. The OPR's for the Moray area are now starting to be transcribed and volunteers are needed. Would anyone interested in transcribing the OPR's for our area please contact me via my usual email address or visit the Moray Rootsweb pages and contact me via the mailing list Admin. ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

Colleen, Thank you for your reply. It's possible we may have some connection somewhere. Here is what I know about my Mackie's: Peter Mackie, b. 1795 in Forgue, Aberdeenshire married Isabel Scorgie 1832 (she died within 20 years after their marriage). Peter's parents were Peter Mackie and Amelia Cruickshank (b. 1752 in Forgue). Peter lived for many years in Marnoch, Banff and died there as well. Peter and Isabel had James Mackie, b. abt 1838 (not sure where). At the time of his marriage to Jane Innes in 1865 he was living in Rothes. I think James had a brother named Peter, but other than that I do not have any info about siblings. James apparently hung himself in an Aberdeen prison in 1873. I still have not found out why he was in prison. James and Jane Mackie's son, David Innes Mackie, was born in Rothes. He was my great grandfather and emigrated to California via. Canada in the 1880's. Anything look familiar? Karen Collen R <ceedeed@dodo.com.au> wrote: Hi Karen, I cannot answer your query regarding MACKIE being derived from McClean. I am interested in the parents, and grandparents of tour Grandfather. The MACKIE line that I am researching include Joseph MACKIE, born 1766 Rothes, Moray, married Grizel (Grace) NAIRN 21 June 1792 at Forres. We believe his parents were Thomas MACKIE, born c.1720 Kinloss, Moray, who married Isabel MANN 1750 Edinkillie, Moray. Thomas's parents were James MACKIE, born about 1680, & Katherine LAMB (IAMBIE) who married 1716. Joseph & Grace MACKIE's youngest son ,James born 1815 Forres, migrated to Australia in 1853. Joseph was a Master baker in Forres, and later in Nairn, and several of his sons were also bakers - James was a baker on the Victorian goldfields, and then a farmer in the same area. I believe he also went to NZ following the gold rush there. Regards, Colleen R. Mentone Victoria Australia. ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== MORAY OPR's. The OPR's for the Moray area are now starting to be transcribed and volunteers are needed. Would anyone interested in transcribing the OPR's for our area please contact me via my usual email address or visit the Moray Rootsweb pages and contact me via the mailing list Admin. ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429

MACKIE from MacKAY from Gaelic MacAOIDH (son of fire), or MacAODH (son of Hugh, or Hugo) McCLEAN probably from MacLEAN from the Gaelic MacGILLE-EOIN (son of the servant of John). Chris Ridings in NSW -----Original Message----- From: Kjsutt100@aol.com [mailto:Kjsutt100@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, 15 December 2004 1:30 To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Mackie vs. McClean My great grandfather was born a Mackie in Rothes but came to Calfornia to mine in the early 1880's. I have found one peculiar note in the margin of his marriage entry in the county records in 1898. It says "Orinaly name was once McClean". Now, I know HIS PARTICULAR name was not McClean as I have found his birth record, his parents, etc. And he and his father and grandfather etc were all Mackies. However, I am curious about the history of the name Mackie. I had always assumed it was a derivative of McKay. Any info on Mackie and McClean? Thanks! Karen in California

Karen From Black's "The Surnames of Scotland" : "This name is of considerable antiquity in Stirlingshire, and can be traced in Stirling to the 15th century.....the Mackies of Mid Galloway a powerful and prosperous family of the sixteenth and first half of the seventeenth century were enthusiastic supporters of the Covenanters." Various men (various spellings of the name, too...Makky, Make, McCay, McKie) are mentioned and a reference is given to compare MacKay and Mackieson entries. Lilian \Kjsutt100@aol.com wrote: > My great grandfather was born a Mackie in Rothes but came to Calfornia to mine in the early 1880's. I have found one peculiar note in the margin of his marriage entry in the county records in 1898. It says "Orinaly name was once McClean". > > Now, I know HIS PARTICULAR name was not McClean as I have found his birth record, his parents, etc. And he and his father and grandfather etc were all Mackies. However, I am curious about the history of the name Mackie. I had always assumed it was a derivative of McKay. Any info on Mackie and McClean? Thanks! > > Karen in California > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > MORAY OPR's. The OPR's for the Moray area are now starting to be transcribed and volunteers are needed. Would anyone interested in transcribing the OPR's for our area please contact me via my usual email address or visit the Moray Rootsweb pages and contact me via the mailing list Admin. > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >

My great grandfather was born a Mackie in Rothes but came to Calfornia to mine in the early 1880's. I have found one peculiar note in the margin of his marriage entry in the county records in 1898. It says "Orinaly name was once McClean". Now, I know HIS PARTICULAR name was not McClean as I have found his birth record, his parents, etc. And he and his father and grandfather etc were all Mackies. However, I am curious about the history of the name Mackie. I had always assumed it was a derivative of McKay. Any info on Mackie and McClean? Thanks! Karen in California

The origin of the name of Jesse comes from Ruth 4:22, 1 Sam 16:1ff, where Jesse is the grandson of Ruth and the father of the future king David. Names from the Hebrew scriptures were quite popular in the US during the 19th century, even those who were quite obscure. I have no idea of the origin of Jessie but I would say that the origin there is completely separate. Shalom Chris Ridings -----Original Message----- From: Ray Hennessy [mailto:rayhennessy@iclway.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, 14 December 2004 4:52 To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re:[MORAY] Jessie Re Jessie ------------- Chris Duff wrote: > No one has suggested Jessie may be short > for Jessica. Am I being too obvious? Hi Chris Not at all, it's a fairly common pet name for Jessica. Maybe not in Scotland but then nor is Jessica! The 1841 Census for Aberdeenshire doesn't have a single Jessica in it, as far as I know. - ------------------------------------------------ peigi mulligan wrote: > In America JESSIE is female, JESSE is male. > And it is Jesse James. My 1st cousin's wife is a relative of his. Hi Peigi Well, true, up to a point. As I said in an earlier message, there are variations even in the States involved with JJ. The City of St Joseph, Missouri says: " Jesse Woodson James was born in Kearney, Missouri on September 5, 1847. His father, the Rev. Robert James, was a Baptist minister who helped found William Jewell College in Liberty, Mo. Some people say it was the cruel treatment from Union soldiers that turned Frank and Jesse to a life of crime during the Civil War. Certainly during the war years they learned to kill while riding with William Quantrill and Bloody Bill Anderson. " The Spartacus School Net says: " Jessie James was born in Clay County, Missouri on 5th September, 1847. His father left home as a child in search of gold in California and never returned. Jessie and his brother Frank James were brought up by their mother, Zeralda James. The James family were owners of slaves and supported the Confederate Army during the American Civil War. In 1862 William Quantrill established a band of guerilla fighters. Jessie James joined and other members of the gang included Frank James, Cole Younger and James Younger. " Clearly these sources are talking about the same Jesse/Jessie James but with interesting differences, quite apart from the Forename of the 'notorious bandit' or 'America's Robin Hood'. [Take your pick!!] Best wishes to all Ray Hennessy

I have DAVIDSON of Cruden, Aberdeenshire 1811. Any help? Chris Ridings -----Original Message----- From: Howard Geddes [mailto:hwg58lists@hwgeddes.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 10:47 To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: McLean/Davidson/Reid/Ingram Hi Ian, My gt-gt-gt-gdmother is Margaret REID. My Reids stayed in Deskford for many a long year: the earliest I have is James REID and Janet CLARK who married 12-Jan-1783 Deskford; he may have been son of James REID and Elizabeth GRANT who married 8-Oct-1757 Deskford. There were other Deskford Reids, your Reids among them, but I haven't been able to link them with mine. Maybe you can? I. The following info I have on file probably refers to a son of Alexander Reid and Helen Palmer: 1851 census (enum 1 page 16) Berryhillock, Deskford: Alexander Reid 41 b. Deskford Head Mar Master Tailor Charlotte Reid 43 b. Elgin Wife Mar Master Tailor's wife Charlotte Reid 9 b. Deskford dau Scholar Helen Reid 7 b. Deskford dau Scholar John Reid 5 b. Deskford son Tailor's son I don't have a sighting of them in 1841 - this may merely be because I haven't transcribed their entry. I don't have their entries for 1861/1871, but the couple is still there in 1881: 1881 census (151-3-1) Berryhillock, Deskford Alexander Reid 71 b. Deskford Head Mar Furnishing Tailor emp 1 man Charlotte Reid 71 b. Elgin Wife Mar The wife's maiden name is Cassie. Daughter Helen turns up in Aberdeen in 1881: Volume 168-2 EnumDist 2 Page 11 William D. GEDDES M 52 M Glan, Aberdeen Head Professor Of Greek In Universty Margaret GIBB U 39 F Glasgow, Lanark Servant Housemaid Dom Serv Hellen REID U 37 F Deskford, Banff Servant Housemaid Dom Serv This is from his death registration: "Alexander Reid tailor and clothier (married to Charlotte Cassie) died 31-3-1890 1.30pm age 80 Berryhillock parish of Deskford, of influenza pneumonia 4d. Parents: William Reid (deceased) and Helen Reid ms Palmer (deceased). Inf: John Reid son (present)." - D-1890-Deskford-4. I've found widow Charlotte and son John in Inverurie in 1891: John Reid 45 [actual: 46] b. Deskford head mar general draper ........ Charlotte Currie Reid 82 [actual: 83] b. Elgin mother wid. [Her middle name may have been intended to be Cassie, but got recorded as Currie?] I think the son has got his father's father's name wrong: it ought to be Alexander, not William. This is because there is only the one marriage relating to a Helen Palmer: Helen Palmer & Alexander Reid m. 30-6-1798 Cullen (IGI-M111502) and Helen Palmer & Alexander Reed m. 24-6-1798 Deskford (IGI-M111512) [a personal submission has Helen Palmer & Alexander Reid m. 30-6-1799 Cullen (IGI-7617734) - note that the date is wrong]. Alexander Reid & Helen Palmer had a son James Reid 17-3-1799 Deskford (IGI-7617733): around this time, the IGI has very few entries for Deskford, and for certain the indexing of the Deskford OPR is not right in FamilySearch, so it didn't show any children at all in the normal way one checks for whole families, but I now see that Alexander Reid & Helen Palmer had much more of a family. I've been able to winkle out eight of a family including your Ann bpt 3-11-1802, with the 1799 James and the 1809 Alexander slotting in perfectly, making at least ten of a family. The net result for me is still that they are not obviously related to my Reids, because mine seem to have been in Deskford long before this family came in from Cullen (if that's where they did come from....). However, I am trying to seek these connections. II. I have this info on file, re James Davidson and Margaret Copeland: George DAVIDSON died Beryhillock 5 July 1869 (age 66) married to Ann REID, s/o James DAVIDSON farmer dec. & Margaret COPELAND. In 1851, George was age 48 b.Rathven and Ann was age 48 b.Deskford, and there was family (including your Isabella Davidson, age 10). So now I know the parentage of this Ann Reid. Thanks! III. I have this info on file too, about a John Reid whom I haven't been able to identify yet: Janet BAGRIE d Berryhillock 10 Aug 1869 (87) wid. of Alexander BAGRIE blacksmith, d/o Walter WATT labourer dec. & Ann HEPBURN dec. Informant was John REID grandson, Berryhillock. Regards Howard Geddes ______________________________

Re Jessie ------------- Chris Duff wrote: > No one has suggested Jessie may be short > for Jessica. Am I being too obvious? Hi Chris Not at all, it's a fairly common pet name for Jessica. Maybe not in Scotland but then nor is Jessica! The 1841 Census for Aberdeenshire doesn't have a single Jessica in it, as far as I know. -------------------------------------------------- peigi mulligan wrote: > In America JESSIE is female, JESSE is male. > And it is Jesse James. My 1st cousin's wife is a relative of his. Hi Peigi Well, true, up to a point. As I said in an earlier message, there are variations even in the States involved with JJ. The City of St Joseph, Missouri says: " Jesse Woodson James was born in Kearney, Missouri on September 5, 1847. His father, the Rev. Robert James, was a Baptist minister who helped found William Jewell College in Liberty, Mo. Some people say it was the cruel treatment from Union soldiers that turned Frank and Jesse to a life of crime during the Civil War. Certainly during the war years they learned to kill while riding with William Quantrill and Bloody Bill Anderson. " The Spartacus School Net says: " Jessie James was born in Clay County, Missouri on 5th September, 1847. His father left home as a child in search of gold in California and never returned. Jessie and his brother Frank James were brought up by their mother, Zeralda James. The James family were owners of slaves and supported the Confederate Army during the American Civil War. In 1862 William Quantrill established a band of guerilla fighters. Jessie James joined and other members of the gang included Frank James, Cole Younger and James Younger. " Clearly these sources are talking about the same Jesse/Jessie James but with interesting differences, quite apart from the Forename of the 'notorious bandit' or 'America's Robin Hood'. [Take your pick!!] Best wishes to all Ray Hennessy