Hello All, Going through the 1891 census for my cousin and while looking through the Hatfield area of Doncaster found a name that looked familiar. RG/12 3869 and if your using adobe or similar he can be found on 55 of 359 William Phimister head married aged 33 a miller and born in Scotland. The rest of the family are all born locally and are Eliza 39 his wife and children John w Andrew Olive Can anyone claim him Carol Admin Moray Mailing List www.wakefieldfhs.org.uk/morayweb

I have a Mary Fraser that married an Angus Cameron, they had a son, John b. abt. 1826. There may have been more children, but I haven't figured that out yet. John married Helen Taylor in 1845 at Coylumbridge, Rothiemurchus & Duthil. They had four girls: Mary b. abt. 1850, Ann b. 1846, Helen b. 1851 and Margaret b. 1863. All four girls were born in the Cromdale or Abernethy Parishes. Helen's parents were James Taylor and Ann Smith. I have gotten my information from death registrations. Meridith Scott Keyes

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/BgC.2ACI/328.1 Message Board Post: Hello Kathy, In regards to the GEORGE SMITH (aka GOW) would he have been a distiller, by any chance??? I have info re: George (Gow) Smith who operated a distiller at Minmore....one of our ancestors, James Grant was a brewer there and George (Gow) Smith and his wife, stood as godparents/witnesses to the baptism of James first born son, Peter in 1834. I have just discovered that one of our female ancestors married a CAMERON... the female could be named Margaret, or Janet, or Ann/Annie.....any connections to your families???? Many thanks, doris

Ian, You wouldn't have :-Margaret Murdoch b 6 March 1818,Bellie,m James Morrison 1 December 1845 in Bellie would you? At least two of their children,Margaret,b23 Jan 1852, and Jane b 16 May 1856 were both born Bellie also. Thought they just might be on you OPR Thank you. Marie New Zealand ----- Original Message ----- From: <IACSCOTT@aol.com> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 4:56 AM Subject: Re: [MORAY] DICK/FORBES/GIFFORD/McLEAN/MITCHELL/ROBERTSON/SUTHERLAND Surnames > Hi Greg > > I am not researching your family line but I do have the Bellie OPR microfilm > and had a look for the birth entry for George Robertson. It is recorded in > the OPR but not until 1848 and reads as follows: > > George, Natural Son, to Peter Robertson, labourer, Bogmoor and Ann Mitchell > was born the 30th September 1841 and afterwards baptised. Witnesses George > Geddes and Charlotte Logie. > > While researching my own ancestors from the area I have found many entries > in the OPR marked as omitted and inserted wherever there was space to squeeze > them in but there is no note that the entry had been omitted and it is entered > quite normally in that it is not interlined or squeezed in in any way. The > wording 'Natural Son' suggests that Peter Robertson and Ann Mitchell were not > married at the time he was born. I searched for their marriage in the Bellie > OPR but without success. > > I hope this is of some interest to you. > > Ian A C Scott > > > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > " Reply All " ........Please, please, please, when replying to a posted message make sure that the reply is sent to the list and not just the sender of the message. This is done by clicking " Reply All " Thank you ;-) > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/BgC.2ACI/80.1 Message Board Post: Hi, my email address is austinasmith@comcast.net. My grandmother was born in Scotland in 1898. Her father was William Cairns, b. abt. 1865. His parents were William Cairns, b. 1826 and Wilhelmina McKay, b. 1829. I do not know the names of Wilhelminas parents. They lived in Leith, Midlothian, Scotland. The children of William and Wilhelmina were: Martha Anthony Cairns, Lewis Hay Cairns, Elizabeth Gardiner Foreman Cairns, William Cairns, Alexander Cairns, David Cairns. I am looking for the parents of Wilhelmina. My line continues from William Cairns Jr. and Mary Jane Massie, daughter of William Massie and Margaret Beaton. The Beatons and Massies were from Aberdeen before they moved to Edinburgh. My grandmother married my grandfather in 1920 in California. They met during World War I. We do not have much family history information. Thanks, Austin

Just wondering whether you might know of the following YOUNG's?? Descendants of John YOUNG 1 John YOUNG b: Abt. 1738 . +Elizabeth HORSBURGH b: Abt. 1740 m: 3 September 1761 in St. Andrews And St. Leonards, Fife, Scotland 2 Thomas Horsbrugh YOUNG b: Abt. 1820 Occupation: 1878 Engineer millwright ... +Jane AINSLIE b: Abt. 1824 m: 6 July 1844 in St. Andrews And St. Leonards, Fife, Scotland . 3 William YOUNG b: 15 February 1844 in Dalgety, Fife, Scotland . 3 Robert YOUNG b: 22 November 1846 in Dalgety, Fife, Scotland . 3 Andrew YOUNG b: 23 November 1848 in Dalgety, Fife, Scotland . 3 Grace YOUNG b: 6 February 1851 in Dalgety, Fife, Scotland . 3 Elisabeth YOUNG b: 6 June 1853 in Dalgety, Fife, Scotland . 3 John Forbes YOUNG b: 30 January 1856 in Dalgety, Fife, Scotland d: 5 August 1879 in Cambuskenneth Abbey, Stirling, Scotland Residence: 1878 28 Shore Road, Stirling, Scotland Occupation: 1878 Railway porter ..... +Euphemia Edward McLachlan COUSIN b: Abt. 1855 in Stirling, Stirlingshire, Scotland m: 29 September 1878 in 23 Cowane Street, Stirling, Scotland d: 1 April 1893 in Ivy Place, Stenhousemuir, Stirling, Scotland Residence: 1878 23 Cowane Street, Stirling, Scotland Occupation: Milliner Name Alternative: Euphemia Edmond McLachlan COUSIN ... 4 James M. C. YOUNG b: Abt. 1875 in Stirling, Scotland ... 4 Mary YOUNG b: 24 August 1877 in 23 Cowan Street, Stirling, Scotland d: 24 August 1877 in 23 Cowan Street, Stirling, Scotland ... 4 Thomas. H. C. YOUNG b: Abt. 1879 in Cambuskenneth, Clackmannanshire, Scotland . 3 James YOUNG b: 12 June 1858 in Dalgety, Fife, Scotland . 3 Jane Forbes YOUNG b: 20 September 1860 in Dalgety, Fife, Scotland . 3 Thomasina YOUNG b: 15 September 1868 in Dalgety, Fife, Scotland Regards, Brent SMITH Sydney, Australia

Greg, Ian Scott said: > George, Natural Son, to Peter Robertson, labourer, Bogmoor and Ann Mitchell > was born the 30th September 1841 and afterwards baptised. Witnesses George > Geddes and Charlotte Logie. I'm not researching the family either, but would this add anything? Might the witness George GEDDES above be this one below? "John Geddes Soldier (widower of Ann Gray) illegitimate, died age 85 13-3-1869 1.30am Bogmoor Bellie, of John Geddes and Catherine Ross. Cause: general debility several months, diarrhoea 8days. Informant: P--- George Geddes [signature - v poor - Private George Geddes?] son present." - GROdeath-1869-126(Bellie)-10. John Geddes was born 15-2-1787 / bpt 1787 Bellie, Moray to John Geddes and Katherine Rose (IGI: C111262). He married 2-2-1811 Bellie (M111262), had John 17-2-1814/1814, George 10-7-1816/1816 Bellie (C111262). Howard Geddes

Researching Montgomery in Bellie circa 1720-1770.Harry Montgomery,Agincourt,Ontario.

G'day Greg, In your extensive dealings with the McLeans have you come across Norman McLean of Tamworth NSW married to Ysabel (Belle) Ferguson (my aunt) about 1925 They had three children Cora, Jack and Ian. I have not seen them since about 1950. Hope you can help, thanks. Best regards Peter Ferguson

Hi Marie You asked- Ian, You wouldn't have :-Margaret Murdoch b 6 March 1818,Bellie,m James Morrison 1 December 1845 in Bellie would you? Yes I have Margaret's birth record in the OPR but it was not recorded until 1822 along with those of two of her siblings. Ann, lawful daughter to William Murdoch and Mary Robertson in Fochabers was born 1st and baptised 9th February 1822. Witnesses, James Murdoch and Alexander Robertson. Margaret, lawful daughter to William Murdoch and Mary Robertson in Fochabers was born 6th and baptised 14th March 1818. Witnesses, James Murdoch and James Robertson. James, lawful son to William Murdoch and Mary Robertson in Fochabers was born 12th and baptised 17 November 1820. Witnesses, James Robertson and James Murdoch, Fochabers. Recorded 1824 John, lawful son to William Murdoch and Mary Robertson in Fochabers was born 12th and baptised 14th September 1823. Witnesses, John Watt and James Robertson Fochabers. Recorded 1829 William, Lawful son to William Murdoch, Cartwright, Fochabers and Mary Robertson was born 19th and baptised 25th December 1829. Witnesses, James Robertson and John Watt, Fochabers. Recorded 1832 Jane, lawful daughter to William Murdoch, Cartwright, Fochabers and Mary Robertson was born 18th November and baptised 2nd December 1832. Witnesses, Jane Watt and Jane Taylor, Fochabers. Recorded 1834 Helen, lawful daughter to William Murdoch, Carpenter, Fochabers and Mary Robertson was born 16th May 1834 and baptised the same day. Witnesses Helen Watt and ???? Payne I checked on from this point until 1845 but found no other births recorded for William and Mary. Marriage James Morrison and Margaret Murdoch both in this Parish were contracted in order to marriage the 22nd November then married December 1845. Births Mary, lawful daughter to James Morrison, shoemaker, Fochabers and Margaret Murdoch was born 25th March and baptised 11th April 1847. Witnesses, Alexander Glass and Mary Robertson. Elizabeth, lawful daughter to James Morrison, shoemaker, Fochabers and Margaret Murdoch was born 5th and baptised 8th November 1848. Witnesses, Alexander Glass and Jane Murdoch. Recorded 1854 James, lawful son to James Morrison, shoemaker, Fochabers and Margaret Murdoch was born 5th March 1850 and afterwards baptised in presence of the congregation. Margaret, lawful daughter to James Morrison, shoemaker, Fochabers and Margaret Murdoch was born 23rd January 1852 and afterwards baptised in presence of the congregation. Jane, lawful daughter to James Morrison, shoemaker, Fochabers and Margaret Murdoch was born 13th May 1854 and afterwards baptised in presence of the congregation. This last entry is a little at odds with the information you hold for Jane but the last three entries were recorded in sequence among a number of others and it would appear that an effort was being made to get the children's births entered in the Parish Record before Statutory Registration began. The day and month of Jane's birth are near enough the same and unless she died and another child was born around the same time of year and given the same name I would think what I have given you is correct. Have you checked the Statutory Register for a birth for Jane Murdoch in 1856? During my search I noticed a birth entry for an Alexander Morrison who is shown as the NATURAL son of James Morrison and Ann Garden and was born on 2nd August and baptised 10th August 1845. Whether or not this illegitimate child was a son of your James Morrison I cannot say but there were two or three other James Morrisons but none that I saw who married or had children by Ann Garden. I mention this only in case you have another mystery you have not solved (and we all have those) . I also noticed the birth of a daughter, Margaret, to John Symon and Ann Murdoch on 6 October 1845 followed by a baptism on 11th October 1845. This caught my eye because I have been trying to assist a friend in the USA with research into the Symon family in Moray. He helped me find a cousin whom I heard not heard of for over 50 years and we now correspond regularly. I hope what I have been able to find is of some interest to you and fills in a gap or two. Regards Ian

G'day Cobbers, Am researching the family below and would be pleased to hear from any descendants of this family. Descendants of Ann MITCHELL & Peter ROBERTSON Peter ROBERTSON . He married Ann MITCHELL . I. George ROBERTSON , b. 30 Sep 1841 in Bellie, Moray, Scotland. He married Jane GIFFORD , marriage bann 30 Jun 1877 in Catholic Chapel, Buckie, Banffshire, Scotland, ((Page 6) - After Banns according to the Forms of the Catholic Church; Signed: W. Clapperton, Catholic Clergyman; Witnesses: John Reid & Edmund Gifford; George Robertson (Bachelor) - Usual Residence: Bogmoor, Bellie; Jane Gifford (Spinister) - Usual Residence: Bogmoor, Bellie, Domicil, Buckie, Rathven, Banffshire, Scotland.) b. Abt 1851, (daughter of Edmund GIFFORD and Mary GRANT ) d. 10 Aug 1914 in Bogmoor, Bellie, Banffshire, Scotland, ((Page 7) - Time of Death: 11.00am: Where: Bogmoor, Bellie, Banffshire, Scotland; Cirrhosis of Liver, As certified by T. G. unable to decipher surname M.B.B.S.; Informant: Alexander Cowie, nephew, Buckie.) A. Mary Ann ROBERTSON , b. Abt 1879 in Bellie, Banffshire, Scotland. She married Alexander McLEAN , b. 18 Jun 1876 in Garmouth, Moray, Scotland, (son of Charles McLEAN and Mary CLARK ) d. 27 May 1937. 1. Robert McLEAN , b. Abt 1905, d. Abt 1964. 2. Jean McLEAN , b. Abt 1907 in Scotland, d. Abt 1954 in Scotland. She married Robert FORBES . 3. Mary McLEAN , b. Abt 1908 in Scotland, d. Abt 1926 in Scotland. 4. Charles McLEAN , b. Abt 1910 in Scotland, d. Abt 1984 in Scotland. He married Isobel McLEAN . 5. Ruby McLEAN , b. Abt 1912. She married ? DICK . 6. Eva McLEAN , b. Abt 1916 in Scotland, d. Abt 2000 in Scotland. 7. Alexander (Tyke) McLEAN , b. Abt 1918 in Scotland, d. Abt 1986 in Scotland. He married Helen (Nellie) SUTHERLAND . B. Jane E ROBERTSON , b. Abt 1882 in Bellie, Banffshire, Scotland. C. Margaret ROBERTSON , b. Abt 1889 in Bellie, Banffshire, Scotland. Regards Greg Baldwin Ferntree Gully, Victoria, Australia Homepage: http://member.melbpc.org.au/~kennethb/ Email: kennethb@melbpc.org.au Helen's Stolen Generation Radio Program: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/history/hindsight/default.htm All incoming & outgoing files & emails checked by VET Anti-Virus software. AIGS 9842 A&NESFHS 9933 KFHS 7736 Researching Surnames: BIRCH - Yorkshire, Eng> Qld, AUS BRODIE - Parish of Boyndie, Banffshire, SCT CAMERON - Black Isle, SCT CLARK - Rhynie & Essie, Aberdeen SCT DEAN - Elgin, Elgin, Scotland GRANT - Rhynie, Aberdeen, SCT INGLIS - Banff/Moray, SCT LAURANCE - Banff, SCT LUMSDEN - Banff, SCT>New Zealand MASSON - Ross Shire>Ayrshire, SCT MacDONALD - Inverness, SCT MELVIN - Elgin, Elgin, Scotland McINTOSH - Inverness, SCT > Qld, AUS McINTOSH - Ross Shire, Scotland>Qld, AUS McKENZIE - Banff/Moray, SCT McLEAN - Garmouth, Moray, SCT>Qld, AUS McLEAVY - Jedburgh, Roxburgh, SCT>Qld, AUS OLIVER - Jedburgh, Roxburgh, SCT>Qld, AUS PROCTOR - Elgin, Moray, SCT RAFFAN - Banff, SCT ROBERTSON - Ross & Cromarty, SCT SIMPSON - Banff/Moray, SCT SMITH - SCT STUART - Moray, SCT SUTHERLAND - Moray, SCT WILSON - Ayr, SCT>New Zealand http://www.abc.net.au/rn/history/hindsight/default.htm

Gay, It would appear that in 1800 there were very few Baptist churches in Scotland.The Scottish Baptist Union was not formed until 1869 and then had 51 churches and 3,500 members.It is likely that in 1800 your ancestor's baptism would be recorded in the Old Parish Records of the Established Church of Scotland which are available through the Scotlandspeople website.These OPRs have also been the basis of the LDS records available at www.familysearch.org Sandy Archibald Edinburgh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gay King" <gayking@aci.on.ca> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 1:25 AM Subject: [MORAY] Baptist Records > Hi, > > Today I learned that I have a Scottish ancestor by the name of Alexander > Mitchell who was born in Scotland 1800-1801, just where I don't know. His > wife's name was Sarah. According to the 1851 census records for Canada > West, > he was a Baptist. Can anyone tell me if Baptist records are included in > Scotlandspeople records? Or would they be accessed elsewhere? > > Thank you! > > Gay > > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > Don't forget that if you delete a message, you can always visit the > archives of this list http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MORAY/. The > archives are also worth looking at, whether you be a new or established > lister. > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx > > ---------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 4612 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now!

Hi All While researching my ancestors in Moray I came across the following three marriage entries which are entered in sequence during September/October 1849 and illustrate just how much the information could differ according to one's station in life. 1) George Taylor and Ann Milne both in this Parish were contracted in order to marriage the 15th and were married the 23rd September 1849 2) The Right Honorable John George Brabazon Ponsonby, Earl of Bessborough, of the parish of Tiddown in the County of Kilkenny, Ireland and the Right Honorable Lady Caroline Amelia Gordon Lennox, Daughter of Charles, Duke of Richmond and Caroline, Duchess of Richmond after regular proclamation of Banns in the Parish Church of Bellie were legally married in the Episcopal Chapel of Fochabers on the 4th day of October, Eighteen Hundred and Forty Nine by the Honorable and Reverend Walter Ponsonby, Vicar of Great Cranford, England in presence of their Graces the Duke and Duchess of Richmond, The Earl of March, the Reverend W Turner and the Lord Saltoun. 3) Angus McPherson in this Parish and Isabella McPherson in Edinburgh were contracted in order to marriage the 27th and were married the 28th October 1849. The first entry tells us the parties were both resident in the Parish of Bellie and little more other than the two dates. The second gives us the names of the parties and the bride's parents names but not those of the groom's together with details of the Banns being called in the Parish Church and the marriage itself in the Episcopal Chapel by what appears to be a brother or cousin of the groom who was a Vicar in England. The witnesses names are also given. The third entry is similar to the first but it poses a question. Were Angus and Isabella related as their surnames are the same? It also tells us they were normally resident in different Parishes. But is that because Isabella had gone to Edinburgh to find work or had Angus come north from Edinburgh for the same purpose. Either way the field of research widens. For those who may be puzzled as to why a daughter of the Duke of Richmond should choose to marry in Fochabers in the Parish of Bellie I would explain that her family also held the title Duke of Gordon and one of their residences was Gordon Castle in the Parish. I know this does not give answers to 'brick walls' but it illustrates that not all people were treated the same. Baptisms of children to Ministers, Schoolmasters and other Public Officers often carry more detail than you would normally find and that variation can carry through to Marriages and Deaths as well. As an aside, I found the following entry in the Northern Scot recording my GG Grandparents Golden Wedding: 30/6/2001 The Northern Scot dated 16 September 1893 carried a report on their Golden Wedding which read as follows: On Friday, Mr & Mrs Alex Scott, Auchinhalrig, celebrated their golden wedding under the same roof where the nuptial knot was tied fifty years before. Several members of their family and a few friends were present, a very happy evening being spent. It is worthy of remark that Mr Scott has been in the service of the Duke of Richmond and Gordon at the sawmill during all his long period of married life, during which time, as his home is some three miles from his work, he has walked (says our correspondent) considerably over 90,000 miles, or well nigh four times round the world. Ian A C Scott

Hi Greg I am not researching your family line but I do have the Bellie OPR microfilm and had a look for the birth entry for George Robertson. It is recorded in the OPR but not until 1848 and reads as follows: George, Natural Son, to Peter Robertson, labourer, Bogmoor and Ann Mitchell was born the 30th September 1841 and afterwards baptised. Witnesses George Geddes and Charlotte Logie. While researching my own ancestors from the area I have found many entries in the OPR marked as omitted and inserted wherever there was space to squeeze them in but there is no note that the entry had been omitted and it is entered quite normally in that it is not interlined or squeezed in in any way. The wording 'Natural Son' suggests that Peter Robertson and Ann Mitchell were not married at the time he was born. I searched for their marriage in the Bellie OPR but without success. I hope this is of some interest to you. Ian A C Scott

Hi Sandy, I'm glad to hear what you said. From the checking I did on Baptist records it seems they may not exist or are not obtainable. Thank you! GAy -----Original Message----- From: alexander archibald [mailto:aasc13970@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: January 14, 2005 8:21 AM To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MORAY] Baptist Records Gay, It would appear that in 1800 there were very few Baptist churches in Scotland.The Scottish Baptist Union was not formed until 1869 and then had 51 churches and 3,500 members.It is likely that in 1800 your ancestor's baptism would be recorded in the Old Parish Records of the Established Church of Scotland which are available through the Scotlandspeople website.These OPRs have also been the basis of the LDS records available at www.familysearch.org Sandy Archibald Edinburgh ----- Original Message ----- F

I have a series of Charles McKENZIE of Cullen, Banffshire and James DAVIDSON of Cruden, Abd Anywhere near anyone? Chris Ridings from hot Ryde, NSW -----Original Message----- From: nannynoodle@lineone.net [mailto:nannynoodle@lineone.net] Sent: Thursday, 13 January 2005 1:51 To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: McKenzie/Davidson Moray This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/BgC.2ACI/1257 Message Board Post: Researching James McKenzie a Stonemason, married Margaret Davidson 1822 Keith Moray. Sons Alexander who may have married in London 1845, James and William. Stephanie

Hi, Today I learned that I have a Scottish ancestor by the name of Alexander Mitchell who was born in Scotland 1800-1801, just where I don't know. His wife's name was Sarah. According to the 1851 census records for Canada West, he was a Baptist. Can anyone tell me if Baptist records are included in Scotlandspeople records? Or would they be accessed elsewhere? Thank you! Gay

Hi Holly Forgot to mention in my last message that if you go to _www.scottishdocuments.com_ (http://www.scottishdocuments.com) you might get some information on the new service. I am registered with this service and they sent me an email advising me of the planned changes and seeking my approval for my Scottish Documents registration details to be transferred to _www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk_ (http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk) with whom I am also registered. It's worth a try. Regards Ian

Hi Holly As far as I am aware there is no UK based site which offers the same sort of subscription service covering the Scottish Records. The nearest one gets to that kind of service is at Originsnetwork and if you go to _http://www.originsnetwork.com/_ (http://www.originsnetwork.com/) you will be able to see what they offer but please note that when they say British Origins they are referring to England and Wales. There is a note at the end of the web page making it clear they do not offer a subscription service for Scots Origins. I hope this is of some interest to you. Ian A C Scott

Ian, Thanks for your excellent summary of the available Scottish records. I was very interested to hear of the planned Scottish Family History Service. Is there a link where I could read more about that? Is anyone aware of any possibility of an ancestry.com-type service for Scottish records, where people can pay for a one-year subscription, rather than the pay-by-screen time-restricted arrangement on Scotland's people? The amount of information that can be gleaned from the far more flexible access for US census records is so much more rewarding, research-wise. Holly East Bangor, PA