Hi, How frequently in the early 1800's in official documents was the name Marion substituted for someone named Sarah? And vice versa? I have checked the 'what's in a name' website which says that they were used interchangeably but I am wondering if that was really so... Morag seems to be closer to Sarah than Marion. Any thoughts appreciated. Gay

In response to Kathy Wells, George Watt wrote > Sorry I can not asist with Rioland but I recognise BRAGACH. It is a > farm that was originally within the Parish of Aberlour but located in > Glenrinnes. It is on the highway about 7 miles south of Dufftown on > the B9009 road to Tomintoul. I searched on the streetmap website (See > response from Ray Hennesay). Bragach is not marked but is on the 1860 > OS map. Well spotted, George. On the 2.5 OS map there are: Bregach at NJ262322, [note spelling] Glack of Breagach at NJ253320 Streetmap.co.uk [see http://tinyurl.com/6pl6v ] shows Bregach but the Glack isn't named. Similar result on Multimap. As you can see, Kathy, spelling can be very inconsistent so this could easily have been spelt Braegoch by the Minister in the 1700s. Best wishes Ray

> I am working on my Murrays from Banffshire. > I made copies of the Alvah and Aberlour Register > records showing baptisms and marriages. I have a > John Murray in Rioland, and a James Murray in > Braegoch. There is a Bregach in Glen Rinnes, which might be the one you are after. I am not at home at the moment so cannot tell you which parish it is in, but of you go to www.streetmap.co.uk and search using this spelling you will see where it is. I don't know Rioland. Anne

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=____1106327629916_0a+LCdgv)= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Regarding town names that can't be found. After spending many hours pouring over microfilms of Old Parish Registers and trying to figure out where or decipher some of the "town" names, I have finally figured out that these may have not been actual towns but more like the common day address but without numbers and streets. The Old Parish Registers are based on regions that cover many of the villages or addresses. Example I have an ancestor that was registered in the parish of Dyke (which also happens to be a small village with a church and graveyard.) He is listed as being from Miln of Brodie (Mill of Brodie). Near Dyke, there is a very old castle, Brodie Castle, that was owned and lived in by the Brodie family. After reading the actual records and the witnesses at the baptisms and marriages, Brodies being some of them, I now think that my ancestor possibly was the miller for the Brodies and he lived at the mill. It is frustrating when one can not find an old list of placenames and the records are sometimes so hard to read that you can't figure out what the place was. I found an excellen! t microfilm source of getting some history of Moray at the Family History Center. It is microfilm number: 824,211 titled The Historic Episcopate in the Columban Church and the Diocese if Moray. The author was Rev. John Archibald and was published in 1893. It helps one get an understanding of how the parishes were formed and when some areas ceased to be.(if yur closest Family History Center does not have this microfilm, they can order a copy). An example Spynie was the manor where the bishops of Moray lived. It eventually went into ruin and I suspect that New Spynie (an Old Parish) came into being as the Church of Scotland became the dominant religion in Scotland. 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Kathy Wells <rebeltrumpet@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > I am working on my Murrays from Banffshire. I made copies of > the Alvah and Aberlour Register records showing baptisms and > marriages. I have a John Murray in Rioland, and a James Murray in > Braegoch. Now, I have tried to find these places on the internet > and absolutely nothing comes up. They may be misspelled because > the writing back in the 1700s was not real legible. But that > appears to be the way they are spelled because I have found them > numerous times. Has anyone ever heard of these towns? If so, > can anyone give me an approximate location. If not, could they > have been renamed? > Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, > Kathy Wells Hi Kathy Ryland is at NJ661582 which you can see on this view in Streetmap.co.uk: http://tinyurl.com/55x2d Hill of Ryland is a mile south-west at NJ650570 with Brae of Ryland on its southwest face. Mill of Ryland is half a mile North East of Ryland at NJ668586. Brydock Mill is at the west edge of the map. Both Ryland and Brydock were named with exactly those spellings on the 1896 map so I can't offer any help on the question of whether they are in fact the places you want. You don't actually say that they were both in Alvah Parish OPR. If so, then these look increasingly likely to be the places you are looking for. Good luck Ray Hennessy [Forenames website: www.whatsinaname.net ]

Hello David According to GENUKI there is a farm/croft called Breagach in the Parish of Aberlour and likewise a Ryland in Alvah. This is probably the places you are referring to. If you go to www.streetmap.co.uk you will find Ryland in Alvah, however, there is a Hill of Breagach in Aberdeenshire, but to signs of a Breagach. I hope this helps Alex. Gray

Kathy wrote: > ... > I have a John Murray in Rioland, and a James Murray in Braegoch. > Now, I have tried to find these places on the internet and absolutely > nothing comes up. They may be misspelled because the writing back in > the 1700s was not real legible. I don't think they are "mis-spelled" - but the spelling of placenames does vary. As to not finding them, that will rather depend on where you look. When you are looking for a placename that has possibly disappered from the maps (if it was ever on one!) a general Google search may well not find it. For this purpose, you will be better served by using a dedicated resource, and the one I would recommend is the GENUKI Gazetteer. This is available from many pages in GENUKI, but if Banffshire is your target, then start with: www.abdn.net/genuki/BAN The Gazetteer link is immediately below the list of parishes. The Gazetteer data for Banffshire is currently undergoing a major update, as a joint project between Ray Hennessy and myself, but in the mean time, the data does include one instance of "Breagach" in the parish of Aberlour - I haven't yet found a match for "Rioland" We are still at the prototyping stage, but when the current project is complete, the Banffshire data will include (1) all placenames found on the current issue of the "Landranger" 1:25000 Ordnance Survey map, with a full map reference (2) all additional placenames found on the 1896 edition of the Ordnance Survey 1" map, with a full map reference (3) all additional placenames found in the Census Enumerations for 1841, 1851 and 1861, with a generic map reference to the Enumeration District. One other comment: neither Breagach/Braegoch nor Rioland (if we can find it) will turn out to be "towns". They will be individual farms. Gavin Bell

Hi Kathy, Sorry I can not asist with Rioland but I recognise BRAGACH. It is a farm that was originally within the Parish of Aberlour but located in Glenrinnes. It is on the highway about 7 miles south of Dufftown on the B9009 road to Tomintoul. I searched on the streetmap website (See response from Ray Hennesay). Bragach is not marked but is on the 1860 OS map. HTH George in Ottawa ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~` >From: David Wells <rebeltrumpet@sbcglobal.net> >Reply-To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com >To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [MORAY] towns in Banffshire >Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:16:33 -0800 (PST) > >Hello Moray Listers, > I am working on my Murrays from Banffshire. I made copies of the >Alvah and Aberlour Register records showing baptisms and marriages. I >have a John Murray in Rioland, and a James Murray in Braegoch. Now, I >have tried to find these places on the internet and absolutely nothing >comes up. They may be misspelled because the writing back in the 1700s >was not real legible. But that appears to be the way they are spelled >because I have found them numerous times. Has anyone ever heard of >these towns? If so, can anyone give me an approximate location. If >not, could they have been renamed? > Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > thanks, Kathy Wells > > > > >==== MORAY Mailing List ==== >" Reply All " ........Please, please, please, when replying to a posted >message make sure that the reply is sent to the list and not just the >sender of the message. This is done by clicking " Reply All " Thank you >;-) > >============================== >Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

Kathy, Rioland I think is Ryland, in Alvah. Have a look at http://www.streetmap.co.uk and search on Ryland. Braegoch isn't so obvious, but perhaps it might be Brydock or its variations, just next to Ryland. Regards, John In message <20050121031633.88232.qmail@web80805.mail.yahoo.com>, David Wells <rebeltrumpet@sbcglobal.net> writes >Hello Moray Listers, > I am working on my Murrays from Banffshire. I made copies of >the Alvah and Aberlour Register records showing baptisms and marriages. >I have a John Murray in Rioland, and a James Murray in Braegoch. Now, >I have tried to find these places on the internet and absolutely >nothing comes up. They may be misspelled because the writing back >in the 1700s was not real legible. But that appears to be the way >they are spelled because I have found them numerous times. Has >anyone ever heard of these towns? If so, can anyone give me an >approximate location. If not, could they have been renamed? > Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > thanks, Kathy Wells > > > > >==== MORAY Mailing List ==== >" Reply All " ........Please, please, please, when replying to a posted >message make sure that the reply is sent to the list and not just the >sender of the message. This is done by clicking " Reply All " Thank >you ;-) > >============================== >Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > -- John Lovie

Re towns in Banffshire. Rioland is probably the the modern day Ryland, a farm in the parish of Alvah. Braegoch sounds like it may be Brydock which is now a feed mill which is less than a mile from Ryland. Sorry I do not have a map handy to give you a reference. Happy hunting Ian Thompson

Hello Moray Listers, I am working on my Murrays from Banffshire. I made copies of the Alvah and Aberlour Register records showing baptisms and marriages. I have a John Murray in Rioland, and a James Murray in Braegoch. Now, I have tried to find these places on the internet and absolutely nothing comes up. They may be misspelled because the writing back in the 1700s was not real legible. But that appears to be the way they are spelled because I have found them numerous times. Has anyone ever heard of these towns? If so, can anyone give me an approximate location. If not, could they have been renamed? Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. thanks, Kathy Wells

I have taced my Family tree back to 1738, I am trying to find info on James Cruikshank (Cruckshank, Cruickshank) reportedly born in Inveravon, Banff "about" 1738, in 1763 he married Janet Black, in Inveravon, they had a son John, I know the root to present day, My family line was also in Aberlour, with Alexr Cruikshank married to Anne McDonald, in 1832. Any help would be appreciated. Willie Cruikshank _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

I have a Simpson but no first name w ho married Margaret Craib around 1878-1880. I have no first name for Simpson but their son born 1880 was James Simpson and he was born in Rothiemay which is not far from Lossiemouth. Mary -----Original Message----- From: Dorothy Stewart [mailto:stewartdk@sympatico.ca] Sent: January 19, 2005 5:59 AM To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [MORAY] LOSSIEMOUTH, ELGIN I am looking for information on a SIMPSON family who had a son JAMES born in LOSSIEMOUTH around 1852 - 1853 according to the 1881 census. Where is LOSSIEMOUTH please, is it a parish? Thank you Dorothy ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== MORAY OPR's. The OPR's for the Moray area are now starting to be transcribed and volunteers are needed. Would anyone interested in transcribing the OPR's for our area please contact me via my usual email address or visit the Moray Rootsweb pages and contact me via the mailing list Admin. ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 16/01/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.1 - Release Date: 19/01/2005

> I am looking for information on a SIMPSON family who had a son JAMES born > > in LOSSIEMOUTH around 1852 - 1853 according to the 1881 census. > Where is LOSSIEMOUTH please, is it a parish? > Thank you Lossiemouth is the largest settlement and the only town in the parish of Drainie. It was founded as Elgin's seaport after the original port at Spynie had become cut off from the sea. Later on Branderburgh was founded on the high ground to the west, and some maps still show Branderburgh although the whole place is now known as Lossiemouth. See www.streetmap.co.uk for a map of the area. HTH Anne

On 17 October 1917 Elizabeth McLEAN gave birth to an illigitimate son named William McLean PATTINSON at 32 Greyfriars Street, Elgin. The boy's father was 28 year old Albert PATTINSON, (son of Mary Ann PATTINSON) and Albert was present at the registration of young William's birth, to acknowledge paternity. Albert had married Jessie SMITH, (daughter of Annie SMITH) in the Holy Episcopal Church in Elgin just three months prior to the child's birth and Albert and Jessie raised the child. I can find no further trace of Elizabeth McLEAN. Do any of these names fit with anyone else's research? Regards Gloria Pattinson

I am looking for information on a SIMPSON family who had a son JAMES born in LOSSIEMOUTH around 1852 - 1853 according to the 1881 census. Where is LOSSIEMOUTH please, is it a parish? Thank you Dorothy

Hi Carol, Yes, I will claim any Phimisters as its one of my main lines of research, and many/most are related to me sooner or later. I have a fair sized db of all Phimisteres I have found, but this William cannot be identified from a group of suitable candidates as yet. However, all of them were born in Aberdeen to Elgin area, with two being born about the right time for this William. If anyone has anything to add, I would be delighted. thanks, Yvonne carol wrote: > Hello All, > Going through the 1891 census for my cousin and while looking through > the Hatfield area of Doncaster found a name that looked familiar. > > RG/12 3869 and if your using adobe or similar he can be found on 55 > of 359 > > William Phimister head married aged 33 a miller and born in Scotland. > > The rest of the family are all born locally and are > > Eliza 39 his wife > and children > John w > Andrew > Olive > > Can anyone claim him > > Carol > Admin Moray Mailing List > www.wakefieldfhs.org.uk/morayweb > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > " Reply All " ........Please, please, please, when replying to a > posted message make sure that the reply is sent to the list and not > just the sender of the message. This is done by clicking " Reply All > " Thank you ;-) > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/BgC.2ACI/757.778.1.1 Message Board Post: Dot Yaliz, Would love to talk with you. Please email me at edlen@gallatinriver.net Thank you, Marj.Agnew-Edlen researching............Williamson, Kitchen, Sandison, Cobban, Taylor

> Going through the 1891 census for my cousin and while looking through the > Hatfield area of Doncaster found a name that looked familiar. >> William Phimister head married aged 33 a miller and born in Scotland. > Can anyone claim him Well, if he was 33 at the time of the 1891 census, he must have been born in 1857/8. The IGI lists just two William Phimisters born within two years of 1857: one in Elgin on 11 October 1855, and one in Cawdor on 11 August 1857. Interestingly, the 1881 Census lists three: one aged 25, born Brechin, living in Brechin one aged 24, born Elgin, living in Melrose one aged 23, born Scotland, living in Yorkshire, with wife Eliza. So it looks as if he must be the one born in Cawdor, son of George Phimister and Ann Smith. Anne

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/BgC.2ACI/757.778.1 Message Board Post: hi there Got info on williamsons of blackdam. Yes there are family still living there. They are my cousins. Only a few years since my aunt Janet died in the house leaving 5 living sons.