Hello Ray , Thank you for your response, I have a Mary Carle born September 4 , 1844 at Little Mill , Bourtie. Mother Isobel Burr, Father Alexander. Carle Another note from someones Cruickshank Bible: Jean/Jane 1802 married William Cruickshank issue #6 Isobel 1802 married Alexander Davidson issue # 1 The next one I have is : Mary Cruickshank Carle born Little Mill , Bourtie married Alexander Davidson February 23 , 1861 Any information is greatly appreciated as I have no relatives now living in Scotland and there is noone here in the United States with information. Thank you , Regards , William

Hello William I cannot recall if I have asked you this before or not. The 1881 Census of Canada lists William Cruickshank, age 58, born Scotland and his wife Elizabeth, 54, also born Scotland, in Ste-Laurence Ward, Montreal. Both are described as Protestant. From a local paper I have a date of death for William Cruickshank, 27 December 1893 in Montreal. Is there a burial record and/or any other information about George and his wife? Anne

Good Morning List; Some time ago when searching for names in the Parish of Duffus, a friend who was helping me sent me this little gem, it may explain why you can't locate certain marriages in the area if that is part of your research; I quote; MINUTES IN DUFFUS O.P.R. OF MARRIAGES. The late Minister, the Rev. Mr John Gordon and his immediate predecessor, having been quite irregular in their celebration of marriages for the last 20 years -- often performing the nuptial ceremony without any proclamation of Banns at all, and sometimes too, even pending the publication, and that without requiring the customary certificate - -the Session Clerk became so disgusted with such irregular and disorderly conduct as to discontinue the Marriage Register entirely for the period above stated. (1800-1820 ) Good hunting. Pearl M. New Zealand.

Hi Peter. This is William in Montreal. There are hundreds of McKenzie's buried in Montreal's two main cemeteries. One being RC and the other Protestant. Is there in other information that you might be able to give me? As an example, was this Norina, Sarah McKenzie maiden name. Was she married and to whom? Did she have any other names such as Elizabeth etc. Any idea where she lived? You see, the RC cemetery has over 1 million buried there and the Protestant over 700,000. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Ferguson" <pbi@austarnet.com.au> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [MORAY] Re: Montreal MI's >I would be most grateful if you could check the Montreal cemeteries for my >aunt Norena Sarah Mackenzie. She died on 13 Jan 1959. > > Best regards > > Peter Ferguson > In sunny NSW Australia > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <WSinnW@aol.com> > To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 10:31 PM > Subject: Re: [MORAY] Re: Montreal MI's > > >> There are a few McKenzie's in both of Montreal's major cemeteries. >> >> Here is a partial list of the names you mentioned. >> >> James McKenzie >> >> JAMES KENNETH MCKENZIE (08/04/1956) >> GEORGE JAMES MCKENZIE (13/12/1965) >> JAMES MCKENZIE (03/08/1915) >> JAMES (DAUG. OF) MCKENZIE (24/05/1913) >> JAMES HUGH MCKENZIE (07/08/1955) >> JAMES STUART MCKENZIE (09/05/1908) >> JAMES MCKENZIE (29/08/1860) >> JAMES MCKENZIE (07/03/1874) >> JAMES DIACK MCKENZIE (12/05/1928) >> JAMES MCKENZIE (14/08/1947) >> JAMES MCKENZIE (13/11/1958) >> WILLIAM JAMES MCKENZIE (30/12/1877) >> JAMES KENNETH MCKENZIE (02/10/1967) >> JAMES SIME MCKENZIE (13/11/1922) >> >> Catherine McKenzie ( I assume it is her married name. Do you have her >> maiden name ) >> >> CATHERINE AUSTIN MCKENZIE ( 26/01/1896 ) >> CATHERINE MCKENZIE ( 21/03/1863 ) >> >> Both of Montreal's cemeteries were started in about 1850. At that time >> one >> was Roman Catholic and the other Protestant. Today they are both >> Interdenominational. I you are able to give me more specific information >> it would be >> easier to find them. >> >> My preliminary findings indicate that we have found William, Mary and >> Agnes >> and this is to follow. >> >> Awaiting your reply >> >> William in montreal >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== >> MORAY OPR's. The OPR's for the Moray area are now starting to be >> transcribed and volunteers are needed. Would anyone interested in >> transcribing the OPR's for our area please contact me via my usual email >> address or visit the Moray Rootsweb pages and contact me via the mailing >> list Admin. >> >> ============================== >> New! OneWorldTree. Building Trees. Connecting Families. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13970/rd.ashx >> > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > Don't forget that if you delete a message, you can always visit the > archives of this list http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MORAY/. The > archives are also worth looking at, whether you be a new or established > lister. > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 >

I would be most grateful if you could check the Montreal cemeteries for my aunt Norena Sarah Mackenzie. She died on 13 Jan 1959. Best regards Peter Ferguson In sunny NSW Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: <WSinnW@aol.com> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 10:31 PM Subject: Re: [MORAY] Re: Montreal MI's > There are a few McKenzie's in both of Montreal's major cemeteries. > > Here is a partial list of the names you mentioned. > > James McKenzie > > JAMES KENNETH MCKENZIE (08/04/1956) > GEORGE JAMES MCKENZIE (13/12/1965) > JAMES MCKENZIE (03/08/1915) > JAMES (DAUG. OF) MCKENZIE (24/05/1913) > JAMES HUGH MCKENZIE (07/08/1955) > JAMES STUART MCKENZIE (09/05/1908) > JAMES MCKENZIE (29/08/1860) > JAMES MCKENZIE (07/03/1874) > JAMES DIACK MCKENZIE (12/05/1928) > JAMES MCKENZIE (14/08/1947) > JAMES MCKENZIE (13/11/1958) > WILLIAM JAMES MCKENZIE (30/12/1877) > JAMES KENNETH MCKENZIE (02/10/1967) > JAMES SIME MCKENZIE (13/11/1922) > > Catherine McKenzie ( I assume it is her married name. Do you have her > maiden name ) > > CATHERINE AUSTIN MCKENZIE ( 26/01/1896 ) > CATHERINE MCKENZIE ( 21/03/1863 ) > > Both of Montreal's cemeteries were started in about 1850. At that time one > was Roman Catholic and the other Protestant. Today they are both > Interdenominational. I you are able to give me more specific information > it would be > easier to find them. > > My preliminary findings indicate that we have found William, Mary and > Agnes > and this is to follow. > > Awaiting your reply > > William in montreal > > > > > > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > MORAY OPR's. The OPR's for the Moray area are now starting to be > transcribed and volunteers are needed. Would anyone interested in > transcribing the OPR's for our area please contact me via my usual email > address or visit the Moray Rootsweb pages and contact me via the mailing > list Admin. > > ============================== > New! OneWorldTree. Building Trees. Connecting Families. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13970/rd.ashx >

Margaret Craib's sister is my first cousin, twice removed according to my Family Tree Maker kinship report. Any help you could provide would be welcome. Mary -----Original Message----- From: Aberlouresearch@aol.com [mailto:Aberlouresearch@aol.com] Sent: January 22, 2005 1:59 PM To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MORAY] LOSSIEMOUTH, ELGIN Hello Mary, Can you tell me where you fit in with Margaret Craib, I know of 5 of her children James Born c. 1880, William c. 1885, Margaret c 1890, Mary also c 1890 and Jessie c 1892. I can let you have the information i have on Margaret if this would help your own research Regards ray ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== Don't forget that if you delete a message, you can always visit the archives of this list http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MORAY/. The archives are also worth looking at, whether you be a new or established lister. ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 21/01/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 21/01/2005

Hello Ray, I have Margaret Donaldson baptized Nov 5, 1724 from the "Parochial Register, Co of Banff, Aberlour" - It states Nov 5, 1724, Robert Donaldson in Edenvilly(sp?) had a daughter baptized called Margaret witnesses Peter Wright & Alexr Proctor both there. I can't find the wife's name of Robert Donaldson. I know he had about 8 children and on each entry it just gives his name. Do you by chance have any information on that line any further back? I descend from John Murray and Margaret Donaldson's son James Murray who was baptized March 15, 1748 in Mortlach. John & Margaret were living in Blackfolds in Aberlour. that's about all I could locate on them. Do you know of any other records available besides the Parochial registers? Any Help would certainly be appreciated. Thanks so much, Kathy. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Aberloursearch@aol.com> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [MORAY] towns in Banffshire > Hello Kathy for some time now i have been transcribing the parish records > for both Aberlour and Mortlach, what would you like to know about the > Donaldsons, can you let me know where you come in on this line ? > > Regards ray > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > If you need to unsub for your holidays, change your email address, or > report anything to the admin of the list - all this information can be > found at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/SCT/MORAY.html > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

Hi John and everyone on the list, I'm back on list for a short while. Hope everyone is achieving results with their research. Spotted the JAMIESON name in your posting. What do you have on the name? Regards George London UK

I mentioned a Mr Sandy a short while ago. It seems that the following refers to him. Alexander ROBERTSON "sometime merchant in Portsoy" died 18-Nov-1790 and his executor was his only brother James ROBERTSON, who was a merchant in Dunkirk in Flanders. The Will was proved 8-Jun-1791 at Aberdeen Commissary Court. James ROBERTSON knew of, or had some other kind of connection with, Lubalmandiere and Company there [? could it be Subalmandiere & Co?] . Does anyone recognise this company? George Smith and Robert Grant are named as clerks of that company. Anyone know anything of particular trading links between Moray Firth and Dunkirk? Howard Geddes

Hello Mary, Can you tell me where you fit in with Margaret Craib, I know of 5 of her children James Born c. 1880, William c. 1885, Margaret c 1890, Mary also c 1890 and Jessie c 1892. I can let you have the information i have on Margaret if this would help your own research Regards ray

Hello Willie, i have some information on your Aberlour families but don't know where they came from before then, if you let me know what you have i will fill in any gaps for you. Regards ray

Hello Kathy for some time now i have been transcribing the parish records for both Aberlour and Mortlach, what would you like to know about the Donaldsons, can you let me know where you come in on this line ? Regards ray

> Regarding town names that can't be found. After spending many hours > pouring > over microfilms of Old Parish Registers > and trying to figure out where or decipher some of the "town" names, I > have > finally figured out that these may have not been actual towns but more > like the > common day address but without numbers and streets. The key fact is that in Scots the word 'town' or 'toun' can apply to what we would call a farm these days. In historical records it does not imply a settlement of any size. > The Old Parish Registers are based on regions that cover many of the > villages > or addresses. Well .... parishes, actually; most of which are much too small to be described as 'regions', but as you say, they usually contain numerous farms, a village or two and sometimes (but not always) a settlement of several thousand people, big enough to be described as a town in modern terms. > Example I have an ancestor that was registered in the parish of Dyke > (which > also happens to be a small village with a church and graveyard.) All parishes have a parish church and graveyard. In many, but not all, cases the church and graveyard is surrounded by a village which has the same name as the parish. In most other parishes the original church and graveyard is known as the 'Kirkto(u/w)n of [parish name]. This nice simple system begins to break down during the industrial revolution, when some places began to grow fast enough to outstrip the ancient parish system. You then get parishes where the largest settlement is a town or village which has a different name from the parish. Examples are Lossiemouth, parish of Drainie Burghead, parish of Duffus Archiestown, parish of Knockando Fochabers, parish of Bellie Buckie, parish of Rathven Tomintoul, parish of Kirkmichael [Banffshire] Lumsden, parish of Auchindoir Aberchirder ("Foggieloan"), parish of Marnoch Pitlochry, parish of Moulin Letham, parish of Dunnichen [Angus] Stenhousemuir, parish of Larbert Lennoxtown, parish of Campsie Coatbridge, parish of Old Monkland Airdrie, parish of New Monkland Wishaw, parish of Cambusnethan Motherwell, parish of Dalziel Strathaven, parish of Avondale to name but a few. The main thing to remember is that the parishes, not towns/villages/cities/counties/regions, are the key to researching family history, because that is how the records were collected and organised. > He is listed as being from Miln of Brodie (Mill of Brodie). Near Dyke, > there is a > very old castle, Brodie Castle, that was owned and lived in > by the Brodie > family. After reading the actual records and the witnesses at the > baptisms and > marriages, Brodies being some of them, I now think that my > ancestor possibly > was the miller for the Brodies and he lived at the > mill. You are spot on. Mill (or Miln) of Brodie would be the mill at Brodie. Sometimes you see the name Milton/Milltown of .... This always means the mill attached to or closest to the place name which follows. > It is frustrating when one can not find an old list of placenames and the > records > are sometimes so hard to read that you can't figure out what the > place was. You also need to remember that spelling is not a constant, so sometimes using the spelling as in the original document does not produce the answer when searching modern maps. > An example Spynie was the manor where the bishops of Moray lived. Before the foundation of Elgin Cathedral in the early 13th century the seat of the diocese was variously in Spynie, Birnie and Kinneddar. Spynie Palace (a bit of a misnomer because it is in fact a considerable fortification) was the Bishop's residence. Lachlan Shaw's 'History of the Province of Moray' says, "The Church stood in the extremity [of the parish] to the east, and, anno 1736, was transplanted to, and built at, Quarrelwood, and called New-Spynie." Anne

Anne Burgess wrote > Never heard pf Sarah being used for Marion or vice versa. There has to > be a first time for everything! <g> The Forenames website address is: www.whatsinaname.net I hesitate to say that it's all there, but there's certainly a lot in the database already - including why Sarah & Marion are slightly synonymous in Scotland!! Ray

> How frequently in the early 1800's in official documents was the name > Marion > substituted for someone named Sarah? And vice versa? > I have checked the 'what's in a name' website which says that they were > used > interchangeably but I am wondering if that was really so... Morag seems to > be closer to Sarah than Marion. Never heard pf Sarah being used for Marion or vice versa. There has to be a first time for everything! <g> Anne

Ray, I Want to thank you for your help in locating those parish & area names. You gave me some wonderful websites to use in my continued research for Scotland. I sure do appreciate your help. thanks, Kathy Wells. Ray Hennessy <rayhennessy@iclway.co.uk> wrote: In response to Kathy Wells, George Watt wrote > Sorry I can not asist with Rioland but I recognise BRAGACH. It is a > farm that was originally within the Parish of Aberlour but located in > Glenrinnes. It is on the highway about 7 miles south of Dufftown on > the B9009 road to Tomintoul. I searched on the streetmap website (See > response from Ray Hennesay). Bragach is not marked but is on the 1860 > OS map. Well spotted, George. On the 2.5 OS map there are: Bregach at NJ262322, [note spelling] Glack of Breagach at NJ253320 Streetmap.co.uk [see http://tinyurl.com/6pl6v ] shows Bregach but the Glack isn't named. Similar result on Multimap. As you can see, Kathy, spelling can be very inconsistent so this could easily have been spelt Braegoch by the Minister in the 1700s. Best wishes Ray ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== Don't forget that if you delete a message, you can always visit the archives of this list http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MORAY/. The archives are also worth looking at, whether you be a new or established lister. ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx

To All of you Moray/Scottish Researchers, I want to thank all of you who helped me tremendously with my question about the 2 parishes in Banff shire. I really do appreciate all the help you all gave me. I have several websites now that I can view villages/parishes/towns and I think we figured out where they are now. Not ever (yet but hope to soon) visiting in Scotland, it was a little difficult for me to figure out which area my Murray family (there are so many) line was from. But, I have finally zero-d in on Mortlach & Aberlour. So, if any of you have Murray's or Donaldson's from Mortlach and/or Aberlour, I would love to hear from you. I have John Murray b.ca 1725 who married Margaret Donaldson in 1745. They appear to have lived in Blackfold when their 3 children were Christened, but they are in both the Mortlach and Aberlour records. Again, THANK YOU all who helped and sent out advice. I do appreciate it. Thanks, Kathy Wells. ----- Original Message ----- From: <anne.listmail@btinternet.com> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 7:18 AM Subject: Re: [MORAY] towns in Banffshire >> I am working on my Murrays from Banffshire. >> I made copies of the Alvah and Aberlour Register >> records showing baptisms and marriages. I have a >> John Murray in Rioland, and a James Murray in >> Braegoch. > > There is a Bregach in Glen Rinnes, which might be the > one you are after. I am not at home at the moment so > cannot tell you which parish it is in, but of you go > to www.streetmap.co.uk and search using this spelling > you will see where it is. > > I don't know Rioland. > > Anne > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > MORAY OPR's. The OPR's for the Moray area are now starting to be > transcribed and volunteers are needed. Would anyone interested in > transcribing the OPR's for our area please contact me via my usual email > address or visit the Moray Rootsweb pages and contact me via the mailing > list Admin. > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx > >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/BgC.2ACI/1259 Message Board Post: I am researching my own family tree, but I am finding this very difficult because my ancestors are all from a traditional travelling background. Mainly from the North East of Scotland. Usual common names (and spelling variations), Stewart, Higgins, Robertson, Townsley, White, McDonald, Hutchison, McPhee, Newlands, Croll, McArthur, Jamieson, Williamson etc... If they are not directly connected to me - are they connected to you? If interested, drop me a line, and we may be able to swap details.

At 12:18 AM 22/01/2005, anne.listmail@btinternet.com wrote: > > I am working on my Murrays from Banffshire. > > I made copies of the Alvah and Aberlour Register > > records showing baptisms and marriages. I have a > > John Murray in Rioland, and a James Murray in > > Braegoch. > >There is a Bregach in Glen Rinnes, which might be the >one you are after. I am not at home at the moment so >cannot tell you which parish it is in, but of you go >to www.streetmap.co.uk and search using this spelling >you will see where it is. Try http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=326170&y=832160&z=3&sv=326170,832160&st=4&ar=Y&dn=838 _ _ Regards, Ed Barron <ejbarron@netspace.net.au>

Gay King asked: > How frequently in the early 1800's in official documents was > Marion substituted for someone named Sarah? And vice versa? > > I have checked the 'what's in a name' website which says that > they were used interchangeably but I am wondering if that was > really so... Morag seems to be closer to Sarah than Marion. Hi Gay I hope we get some inputs on this as it's a long jump from Sarah to Marion in my view - Sassenach that I am. I don't think we claimed full interchangeability of Sarah & Marion, but always pleased to get additional anecdotal evidence. The stories I reported in "What's In A Name" only show that the Gaelic Mór can be Anglicised as either Marion or Sarah. I suspect, but I don't know for a fact, that the anglicised version chosen might be dependent either on the area or the family. The evidence for full interchangeability is sparse which is why I classed Sarah & Marion as "Lesser Synonyms" indicating that the link is from a common name rather than direct. My correspondent in Canada who knows of an example of full interchangeability in Kilmorack, Scotland, was very clear on this but it's the only example we have found. Looking forward to any other inputs. Best wishes Ray Hennessy Forenames website: www.whatsinaname.net