----- Original Message ----- From: <MORAY-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <MORAY-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 7:00 AM Subject: MORAY-D Digest V05 #53

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/BgC.2ACI/1151.1.1.1 Message Board Post: John , There does indeed seenm to be a conection but my own records do not as yet provide the link . First of all there are no ROBB's at all in my database Secondly the ENGLANDS I do have are all descended from a James Calder and Margaret England who were married in Rathven in 1853 .All children are born after this date and so would not fit with your own years. Having been so negative so far I am sure there is a connection waiting to be uncovered as the surname of ENGLAND in the north East of Scotland was not that common and so the link is in there somewhere.

> letters that mentioned a placename spelt differently each time but it was > something like Dilachaple, Delachapel, Delichapel. I haven't been able to > locate any such placename, though I found a Delliefure not far from > Cromdale. > Has anyone ever heard of Dilachaple, Delachapel, Delichapel? Yes. I often drive past it. It is about half a mile north of the village of Cromdale, in the parish of Cromdale Inverallan and Advie. If you go to www.streetmap.co.uk and type Dallachaple into the search box you can see exactly where it is. Best wishes Anne

Pearl, I wonder if you have posted on the SCOTLAND-CEMETERIES Mailing List, or searched the archives of that List ? Ray > > From: Pearl Montrose <montrose@wave.co.nz> > Date: 2005/02/17 Thu PM 09:39:56 GMT+13:00 > To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [MORAY] Cemetery > > Hello List, can someone tell me the names of any other cemeteries > in and around Lossiemouth, apart from Kinedder which I have searched > with some luck, but still some of my lot are missing, must have gone > walk-a-bout. I am thinking of places like Urquhart, Newton, Drainie, > Leuchan, Speymouth, Speyslaw. etc. > thanks Pearl M. NZ > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > MORAY OPR's. The OPR's for the Moray area are now starting to be transcribed and volunteers are needed. Would anyone interested in transcribing the OPR's for our area please contact me via my usual email address or visit the Moray Rootsweb pages and contact me via the mailing list Admin. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

> I have a death certificate for a Margaret Louisa Tod (m.s. Moir) which > shows > she died at Tinamara, Lossiemouth on 16 August 1929. Can > anyone tell me who owned 'Tinamara' (could be Tighnamara) According to the post code directory there is a Tigh-na-Mara in Brander Street. > Henry Tod was one > of several Tods who were Writers to the Signet and many were related. > However, I have a Hugh Tod, born 1784, son of William Tod, Factor to the > Duke of Gordon. Hugh was also a Writer to the Signet and it is just > possible > these two lines of Tods are connected. Hugh's father, who died at Finfan, > Urquhart was also Factor to the Duke of Gordon. I see from the Register of the Society of Writers to the Signet that Henry Tod Sr is the son of Henry Tod, merchant in Edinburgh, and that he died 31 October 1871. I also see that Henry, son of Henry Tod and Kathrine Banks, was baptised on 10 June 1798 in Canongate, Edinburgh. This couple were married in Haddington on 23 November 1792. Henry Tod and Katherine Banks had seven children between 1793 and 1804, none of whom was named William or Hugh. (Noting that their eldest daughter was Helen and their second son James Banks I think the most likely candidate for Katherine Banks is the daughter of James Banks and Nellie Crumbie, baptised in Haddington on 23 October 1763). Henry and Katherine seem to have followed the 'naming tradition'. I note that Henry Tod and Janet Monteith had five children, including a Henry baptised at Bo'ness, West Lothian, on 19 February 1747. Could this be the Henry Tod line? Hugh Tod seems to have been one of nine children born between 1769 and 1791 to William Tod and Helen Ogilvie. None of them was named Henry. Could William be the son of Alexander Todd and Helen Leslie, baptised 11 April 1745 in Bellie? They had six children including a Hugh, but apparently no Henry. Of course all of this is sheer speculation, but if correct it would suggest that there was no (close) connection between the Henry Tod(d)s in Edinburgh and the Hugh Tod(d)s in Bellie. > It is also possible that John > Wharton Wharton-Duff only son of Richard Wharton Tod and Helen Duff is > connected. > This latter gentleman assumed the surname Wharton-Duff on inheriting the > Estate of Orton in 1904 and died at Orton House in 1933. John Robert Tod WS, son of John Tod WS and Helen Duff (daughter of Alexabder Duff of Hatton, Aberdeenshire), married Jemima, youngest daughter of Richard Wharton Duff and Anne Duff, on 17 August 1841. It was their son who adopted his mother's name on succeeding to the estate of Orton. John Tod Sr WS was apprentice to and son of Thomas Tod and Jean Gartshore. He was born 9 March 1773 in Edinburgh, and was the youngest of twelve children born between 1756 and 1773, none of whom was named Hugh, Henry or William. So once again it looks as if any connection with the Henry Todds or the Hugh/William Todds must be further back, if it exists at all. I will see if I can get a look at the relevant valuation roll for Lossiemouth to find out who owned Tigh-na-Mara. Anne

Hello List, can someone tell me the names of any other cemeteries in and around Lossiemouth, apart from Kinedder which I have searched with some luck, but still some of my lot are missing, must have gone walk-a-bout. I am thinking of places like Urquhart, Newton, Drainie, Leuchan, Speymouth, Speyslaw. etc. thanks Pearl M. NZ

Speymouth has Dipple and Essil cemeteries. Are you still looking for Wiseman? There's one in each, both wives. Laura > Hello List, can someone tell me the names of any other cemeteries > in and around Lossiemouth, apart from Kinedder which I have searched > with some luck, but still some of my lot are missing, must have gone > walk-a-bout. I am thinking of places like Urquhart, Newton, Drainie, > Leuchan, Speymouth, Speyslaw. etc. > thanks Pearl M. NZ > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > MORAY OPR's. The OPR's for the Moray area are now starting to be transcribed > and volunteers are needed. Would anyone interested in transcribing the OPR's > for our area please contact me via my usual email address or visit the Moray > Rootsweb pages and contact me via the mailing list Admin. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

Hi I have a death certificate for a Margaret Louisa Tod (m.s. Moir) which shows she died at Tinamara, Lossiemouth on 16 August 1929. She was the widow of Henry Tod, Writer to the Signet and her usual address is stated as 23 Lennox Street, Edinburgh which I know to have been the family home. Henry Tod was one of several Tods who were Writers to the Signet and many were related. Can anyone tell me who owned 'Tinamara' (could be Tighnamara) However, I have a Hugh Tod, born 1784, son of William Tod, Factor to the Duke of Gordon. Hugh was also a Writer to the Signet and it is just possible these two lines of Tods are connected. Hugh's father, who died at Finfan, Urquhart was also Factor to the Duke of Gordon.It is also possible that John Wharton Wharton-Duff only son of Richard Wharton Tod and Helen Duff is connected. This latter gentleman assumed the surname Wharton-Duff on inheriting the Estate of Orton in 1904 and died at Orton House in 1933. Any information which might help me to make the link or prove that it does not exist will be most welcome. Ian A C Scott .

Here are a couple of Cruickshank Death Registrations that happened to be on the same sheet at some family I was researching. You may have these, but one never knows. Meridith Scott Keyes CRUICKSHANK Christina, single, Died December 13, 1886 at West End, Grantown, Age 59 years, Parents John Cruickshank, Labourer, deceased and Christina Cruickshank (M.S. Bisset) deceased - Died of cystic tumour of the ovary, 18 months as certified by John Grant, MD - Informant: George Diseou?. Registrar: William Duncan. CRUICKSHANK Robert, Died June 8, 1923 at Wester ?, Inverallan, Age 6 months, Parents: Peter Cruickshank, Farmer and Margaret Cruickshank (M.S. Calder) - Died of Pneumonia, empyema as certified by D. MacKay, LRCS LRCP - Informant: P. Cruickshank, father. Registrar: James Kerr

Thanks, Audrey! Gay -----Original Message----- From: Amarr319@aol.com [mailto:Amarr319@aol.com] Sent: February 16, 2005 7:27 PM To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MORAY] Mains of Aberlour Mains of Aberlour, or Aberlour Home Farm as it is now known is still there , just in behind Aberlour House. It is now owned by A S Mackay who is now a house developer known as Allachie Homes and can be looked at on this web site. _http://www.allachiehomes.com/_ (http://www.allachiehomes.com/) hope this helps Audrey ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== Don't forget that if you delete a message, you can always visit the archives of this list http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MORAY/. The archives are also worth looking at, whether you be a new or established lister. ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx

Mains of Aberlour, or Aberlour Home Farm as it is now known is still there , just in behind Aberlour House. It is now owned by A S Mackay who is now a house developer known as Allachie Homes and can be looked at on this web site. _http://www.allachiehomes.com/_ (http://www.allachiehomes.com/) hope this helps Audrey

> Were there specific dimensions for a 'tack' of land? Not to the best of my knowledge. Anne

> Can you define Tacksman for me? My guess he's either a holder of a lease > or > tack, or a man who gives out leases or tacks. > Chris He was both. A tacksman held a lease or tack of land, but also sublet to other tenants. Anne

Hi, Does anyone know if 'mains of Aberlour' was a specific farm? What the estate it was connected to would have been? Thanks, Gay -----Original Message----- From: Anne Burgess [mailto:anne.burgess@btinternet.com] Sent: February 16, 2005 1:27 PM To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MORAY] Mains of Aberlour > Were there specific dimensions for a 'tack' of land? Not to the best of my knowledge. Anne ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== Please do not send virus warnings to this list. If you have concerns about a virus, contact the list admin at MORAY-D-request@rootsweb.com or join VIRUS-DISCUSSIONS-L@rootsweb.com subscribe in the subject line. ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx

Hi, Were there specific dimensions for a 'tack' of land? Gay -----Original Message----- From: Anne Burgess [mailto:anne.burgess@btinternet.com] Sent: February 16, 2005 10:31 AM To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MORAY] Mains of Aberlour > Can you define Tacksman for me? My guess he's either a holder of a lease > or > tack, or a man who gives out leases or tacks. > Chris He was both. A tacksman held a lease or tack of land, but also sublet to other tenants. Anne ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== MORAY OPR's. The OPR's for the Moray area are now starting to be transcribed and volunteers are needed. Would anyone interested in transcribing the OPR's for our area please contact me via my usual email address or visit the Moray Rootsweb pages and contact me via the mailing list Admin. ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx

To add to the burgeoning controversy, can I point out that, at the material time, large parts of the bit of country under discussion was not even in Moray (or Elginshire)? This is well illustrated by another map on the National Library site: www.nls.uk/digitallibrary/map/early/566.html Unfortunately, this particular sheet from Thomson's "Atlas of Scotland" (1828) does not show parish boundaries, but does illustrate the odd arrangement which then applied to the southern part of what we now think of as Moray. This muddling of the parishes and counties was partly resolved by an Act of Parliament in 1870, and further tidied up in the big reorganisation of 1891. The other pebble I would drop into the pool is to point out that, just as there are multiple "Auchindoirs", so too do you find "Knockando" (and variants) in various parishes. Gavin Bell

Pat wrote: > ... > Does anyone know how to contact (if it still exists) the Associate > Congregation of Forres for the records of the Ashers that are not > on the IGI. Most of the Associate Congregations, which were a set of 18th century splinter group from the Kirk of Scotland, were progressively absorbed back into first the United Presbyterian Church, then the United Free Church, and at least some of that grouping rejoined the Kirk of Scotland in 1929. However, Diane Baptie's book on the "Registers of the Secession Churches" states that the baptism records for the Forres congregation for the period 1772-1792 are "recorded at the end of Forres Church of Scotland OPR" and are held at New Register House, Edinburgh. That probably means that they will be found on the microfilm of the Forres OPRs. > What denomination was it? Like the Kirk of Scotland, from which they split, and to which most of them eventually returned, the Associate Congregations were Protestant, largely Calvinist in their doctrine, and Presbyterian in their form of government. Gavin Bell

Can you define Tacksman for me? My guess he's either a holder of a lease or tack, or a man who gives out leases or tacks. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gay King" <gayking@aci.on.ca> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 8:42 AM Subject: [MORAY] Mains of Aberlour > Hi, > > I have a man who was a Tacksman at the 'Mains of Aberlour'. I found a > definition of 'Mains' as 'the home farm of an estate'. > > What would the home farm of Aberlour have been in the mid-1700's? > > Thanks, > > Gay > > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > If you need to unsub for your holidays, change your email address, or > report anything to the admin of the list - all this information can be > found at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/SCT/MORAY.html > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > >

> I'm not quite sure where you're leading to in your posting. I had > mentioned > Knockando and was speculating on why all of Anne's syblings were noted as > being from Cromdale Inverallen and Advie. You mentioned "the nearest big town". I was trying to point out that (a) when your Anne and her siblings were born there were no "big towns" and (b) that even if there had been, people would have been more likely to name the parish rather than the town as their birthplace. This did change over the 19th and 20th centuries as more and more people became 'townies' and parishes became less significant. > The point being that all of this information does not seem to be > "documented" > and the "web source" I located some time back (which is the > mentioned "for > retrieval" item) may have assumed that they were all from Cr-Adv_Inv which > is > what they had shown. Indeed. But if they were in fact born in Knockando, they would have said so, rather than saying they were born in the next parish, Cromdale Inverallan and Advie (CIA). > I have my "Anne" changed to Knockando (now the only one there) as per our > family "record" which I expect is at least as good as anyone's (anyone > with no > documents that is). Yes. It is a great disaster that the older Knockando parish records were lost in a fire. > Just how you got to Granton-on-Spey I don't know. As above. Grantown-on-Spey is the only village of any size in the parish of CIA. > You mention "she" but I > don't know who the "she" is that you talk about. Please clarify. Your Anne. > I will send a "family list" to your e-address. Thank you. I look forward to receiving it. > As for Edinkillie and Aachindoir, let me assure you that they are not > anywhere > near the location you describe I know exactly where they are. I live about half an hour's drive from Forres. and I have often driven past the kirk at Edinvillie. > (perhaps there are two of each???) Edinkillie is > at the "fork" where the > Findhorn joins the Divie, about one mile west towards > Ferness (and on > the > opposite shore of the Findhorn is Auchindoir (various spellings) Edinvillie *Kirk* is situated as you describe. The *parish* of Edinvillie extends south to Lochindorb, where is meets the northern boundary of CIA. It includes all the places along the Dorback Burn, such as your Auchindoir. As for the other Auchindoir, I specifically mentioned the possibility that the parish in Aberdeenshire merely has the same name as your one by the Findhorn. I also put this mention in brackets because I know that it isn't the same one. > We are definitely not on the same page here I can assure you that we are on exactly the same page <G> > - let us sort this out over the next while by direct e-mail, where > "attachements > may flow". Next will come the "mixed salad" of discussion about this > family > and who begat whom! Indeed. Both CIA and Knockando have a large population of Cruickshanks, and it would be wonderful if they could all be sorted out! I have no doubt that people moved back and fore between the two, and would not be surprised to find that they are all related. Proving it, of course, is a very different matter, as you say. I look forward to a fruitful discussion <g>. Best wishes. Anne Anne

Hi, I have a man who was a Tacksman at the 'Mains of Aberlour'. I found a definition of 'Mains' as 'the home farm of an estate'. What would the home farm of Aberlour have been in the mid-1700's? Thanks, Gay