> Thanks for your reply. I did consider illegitimicy but presumed that the > parents > were married because, on Isabella's marriage certificate, her > mother is given > as Isabella Rhind, m.s. Fraser, ditto on her death > certificate. She would not be the first one to tell a little fib to hide the stigma of illegitimacy, especially if she married far enough from home for no-one to know the truth! > The other thing > that made me think of the possibility of 2 Alexander Rhinds being bakers > (though unlikely) was that her father was said to be deceased in 1887, the > year > of her marriage, when I know that my Alexander Rhind was very much > alive in > 1891 census and on to his 3rd marriage, this time to his cousin, Marjory > Rhind. > He didn't die until 1914, aged 78. > However, I do take on board that Isabella might have been illegitimate and > this > would explain why I can find no records on Scotland's People. I > presume that, > for decency, Isabella was called Rhind and, since > Alexander went to > Aberdeen, it might have been easier to presume him to be dead. Possibly. It may also be that Isabella let it be known that Alexander Rhind was the father - it was fairly common to do this, even if the errant dad had declined to sign the birth certificate. > Anne, I would very much appreciate the 1861 census reference to Isabella > Fraser. I had a look at the I.G.I. entry and it certainly fits, but I have > no > information about where she lived on her birth. As I said, her birth certificate will tell you the exact address where she was born. If you get this and let me know, I can find that address fairly easily. The 1861 census isn't indexed and without that information it would take a while to search the whole thing. > The family who are her descendants say that she was born in Lossiemouth > and that she was brought up in same household as Ramsay MacDonald. In the > > 1871 census it states: > Isabella Ramsay, head, 60 years old, dressmaker, born Elgin > Annie Ramsay, daughter, 22, dressmaker, b. Elgin > Isabella Rhind, boarder, 10, scholar, b. Lossiemouth > James MacDonald, grandson, 4, b. Lossiemouth. > Unfortunately I don't have an address for this census entry as I got this > info. > from the family of Isabella. I could get that one because I know exactly where Ramsay Macdonald was born (Gregory Place) in 1867. There's a plaque outside commemorating the occasion! Best wishes Anne

Ann and Robin, Thanks for your reply. I did consider illegitimicy but presumed that the parents were married because, on Isabella's marriage certificate, her mother is given as Isabella Rhind, m.s. Fraser, ditto on her death certificate. The other thing that made me think of the possibility of 2 Alexander Rhinds being bakers (though unlikely) was that her father was said to be deceased in 1887, the year of her marriage, when I know that my Alexander Rhind was very much alive in 1891 census and on to his 3rd marriage, this time to his cousin, Marjory Rhind. He didn't die until 1914, aged 78. However, I do take on board that Isabella might have been illegitimate and this would explain why I can find no records on Scotland's People. I presume that, for decency, Isabella was called Rhind and, since Alexander went to Aberdeen, it might have been easier to presume him to be dead. Anne, I would very much appreciate the 1861 census reference to Isabella Fraser. I had a look at the I.G.I. entry and it certainly fits, but I have no information about where she lived on her birth. The family who are her descendants say that she was born in Lossiemouth and that she was brought up in same household as Ramsay MacDonald. In the 1871 census it states: Isabella Ramsay, head, 60 years old, dressmaker, born Elgin Annie Ramsay, daughter, 22, dressmaker, b. Elgin Isabella Rhind, boarder, 10, scholar, b. Lossiemouth James MacDonald, grandson, 4, b. Lossiemouth. Unfortunately I don't have an address for this census entry as I got this info. from the family of Isabella. Regards, Linda > From: "Anne Burgess" <anne.burgess@btinternet.com> > Date: 2005/02/20 Sun PM 10:25:45 GMT > To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [MORAY] Bakers in Lossie 1860 > > > Can anyone guide me on finding a list of bakers in Lossiemouth/Drainie in > > 1860s? Alexander Rhind, born 1837, married Margaret Thomson in 1861 and > > > was a baker in Drainie at that time. I'm sure he was a bachelor on > > marriage > > certificate. However, Isabella Rhind, born around 1860 in Lossie, had > > parents > Alexander Rhind, baker, and Isabella Fraser. I cannot find > > Isabella's birth > > record nor marriage of Alexr. and Isabella. but on Isabella's marriage and > > death certificate her parents are clearly Alexr. and Isabella. It would > > seem odd > that there were 2 Alexanders who were bakers in same place at > > same time > > but Isabella's birth doesn't tie in with Alexr. who married Margaret. > > Isabella, in > 1871 census, lived in same house as young Ramsay McDonald, > > the future > > p.m., as a 10 year old boarder. Alexr., the baker, was in Aberdeen by this > > time. > > Hello Linda > > Have you considered that Isabella could have been illegitimate? > > I suggest that you have a look at the birth certificate of Isabella Fraser, > daughter of Isabella Fraser, born in Drainie 2 March 1861, no father named > on birth certificate if the IGI is to be believed. > > Then let me have a note of the exact address where she was born and I'll > have a look in the 1861 census for her. > > Anne > > > > > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > Don't forget that if you delete a message, you can always visit the archives of this list http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MORAY/. The archives are also worth looking at, whether you be a new or established lister. > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > >

Hi, I would like to thank all the people who spent some time with this search. Thanks Willie Cruikshank _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

> Can anyone guide me on finding a list of bakers in Lossiemouth/Drainie in > 1860s? Alexander Rhind, born 1837, married Margaret Thomson in 1861 and > > was a baker in Drainie at that time. I'm sure he was a bachelor on > marriage > certificate. However, Isabella Rhind, born around 1860 in Lossie, had > parents > Alexander Rhind, baker, and Isabella Fraser. I cannot find > Isabella's birth > record nor marriage of Alexr. and Isabella. but on Isabella's marriage and > death certificate her parents are clearly Alexr. and Isabella. It would > seem odd > that there were 2 Alexanders who were bakers in same place at > same time > but Isabella's birth doesn't tie in with Alexr. who married Margaret. > Isabella, in > 1871 census, lived in same house as young Ramsay McDonald, > the future > p.m., as a 10 year old boarder. Alexr., the baker, was in Aberdeen by this > time. Hello Linda Have you considered that Isabella could have been illegitimate? I suggest that you have a look at the birth certificate of Isabella Fraser, daughter of Isabella Fraser, born in Drainie 2 March 1861, no father named on birth certificate if the IGI is to be believed. Then let me have a note of the exact address where she was born and I'll have a look in the 1861 census for her. Anne

Can anyone guide me on finding a list of bakers in Lossiemouth/Drainie in 1860s? Alexander Rhind, born 1837, married Margaret Thomson in 1861 and was a baker in Drainie at that time. I'm sure he was a bachelor on marriage certificate. However, Isabella Rhind, born around 1860 in Lossie, had parents Alexander Rhind, baker, and Isabella Fraser. I cannot find Isabella's birth record nor marriage of Alexr. and Isabella. but on Isabella's marriage and death certificate her parents are clearly Alexr. and Isabella. It would seem odd that there were 2 Alexanders who were bakers in same place at same time but Isabella's birth doesn't tie in with Alexr. who married Margaret. Isabella, in 1871 census, lived in same house as young Ramsay McDonald, the future p.m., as a 10 year old boarder. Alexr., the baker, was in Aberdeen by this time. Thanks to anyone who can help. Linda Boyd

Linda Have you considered the fact that Alexander RHIND may never have married Isabella FRASER? Ramsay McDONALD's mother never married his father either. I have seen an instances of an unmarried father being named on a death certificates and the child being referred to on a marriage certificate as, in this case, "Isabella RHIND or FRASER". Robin -----Original Message----- From: suedog@tesco.net [mailto:suedog@tesco.net] Sent: February 20, 2005 4:31 PM To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [MORAY] Bakers in Lossie 1860 Can anyone guide me on finding a list of bakers in Lossiemouth/Drainie in 1860s? Alexander Rhind, born 1837, married Margaret Thomson in 1861 and was a baker in Drainie at that time. I'm sure he was a bachelor on marriage certificate. However, Isabella Rhind, born around 1860 in Lossie, had parents Alexander Rhind, baker, and Isabella Fraser. I cannot find Isabella's birth record nor marriage of Alexr. and Isabella. but on Isabella's marriage and death certificate her parents are clearly Alexr. and Isabella. It would seem odd that there were 2 Alexanders who were bakers in same place at same time but Isabella's birth doesn't tie in with Alexr. who married Margaret. Isabella, in 1871 census, lived in same house as young Ramsay McDonald, the future p.m., as a 10 year old boarder. Alexr., the baker, was in Aberdeen by this time. Thanks to anyone who can help. Linda Boyd ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== " Reply All " ........Please, please, please, when replying to a posted message make sure that the reply is sent to the list and not just the sender of the message. This is done by clicking " Reply All " Thank you ;-) ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

> cemetery. At the time of her death, Margaret was married to Alexander > McPherson Slateford. William, the surname is M(a)cPherson and Slateford is the place. Anne

Thanks for the correction Anne William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Burgess" <anne.burgess@btinternet.com> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [MORAY] McPherson or Slateford > >> cemetery. At the time of her death, Margaret was married to Alexander >> McPherson Slateford. > > William, the surname is M(a)cPherson and Slateford is the place. > > Anne > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > Please do not send virus warnings to this list. If you have concerns > about a virus, contact the list admin at MORAY-D-request@rootsweb.com or > join VIRUS-DISCUSSIONS-L@rootsweb.com subscribe in the subject line. > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 >

Are there any McPherson’s or Slateford’s out there who may find a connection with the following information: Up until now, the IGI said that William Innes ( 1778?) and Janet Cameron had three children. Ann b: 13 June 1815, John b: 18 Feb.1820 and William b: 25 Feb.1822. I am a descendant of William ( 1822 ) Anne Burgess has now sent me info that William Innes and Janet Cameron had another child. Namely Margaret Innes b: 17 Feb,1818 at Craighead Farm . She died on the 24 March 1841 at the age of 23 and is buried at the Chapeltown cemetery. At the time of her death, Margaret was married to Alexander McPherson Slateford. Would love to know if they had a family but my gut feeling tells me that Margaret may have died at childbirth. Any help would be appreciated. William in Montreal

Are there any McKay’s out there? I believe that I have finally found my long lost ggg aunt Ann Innes. She was born on the 13 June 1815 at Craighead Farm in Inveravon and her parents were William Innes and Janet Cameron. Recent information given to me by Anne Burgess says that Ann died on the 5 Sept 1903 in Knockandhu at the age of 89. Her spouse William McKay died on the 19 May 1872 in Knockandhu. Both are buried in Buiternach cemetery It is also shown that their eldest son Peter died at Wilksbarre, America on the 16 Oct 1872 at the age of 32. Would dearly love to know more about their family . If you think that you may have something I am willing to share information with you. William in Montreal.

Hi John and Alan, I have a Margaret CALDER m.1820 William JAMIESON Rathven (my GGGGdfather) Margaret was Dau. of John CALDER m.1797 Jane MURRY Banff. Siblings were - Elspet 1799 John 1802 Jane 1804 Abercromby 1809 William 1809 Alexander 1819 all b. Banff Any connections? Regards George London UK>

At 03:25 PM 19/02/2005, you wrote: >Hello list, I wonder can anyone tell me, there is an Allachie Drive in >Charlestown, could this have been there in the 1830s, or is there an >Allachie in Aberlour, I am researching the Cruikshank family that lived there. > >Thanks > >Willie Cruikshank You can have a look at the area as it appears on an Ordnance Survey map in 1872 - it shows the town of Charlestown of Aberlour, and the Braes of Allachie to the south. Click on http://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.htm aIn the search box place the following figures 326500, 842500 then click on the Co-ordinate Box then Search..You will then get two choices. Chose the Banffshire one. This will get you a view of the 1872 map showing Aberlour (previously known as "Charlestown of Aberlour" in full) If you then click on Enlarged view, you will get a larger and wider view of the area, and will see Braes of Allachie under the Charlestown of Aberlour title written just to the south of the Gas Works! You will be able to have a look around. The land to the north on the opposite side of the River Spey is not shown, as this is in Elginshire, the alternative view offered after entering the coordinates. Hope this gives you a better understanding of the area as it was. You can look up the same area by using the same coordinates in http://www.streetmap.co.uk/ and see what it looks like today. _ _ Regards, Ed Barron <ejbarron@netspace.net.au>

Another way to find Allachie (and many other places) is to look for it on the GENUKI Gazetteer. There are links to this resource from many different places, but you can always reach it at: www.genuki.org.uk/big/Gazetteer/ The readout gives the name of the county and the parish, and the OS grid reference, and each of these bits of data is also a hyperlink to further data. The OS grid reference link will take you to the precise location in Old-maps, Multimap and Streetmap, without having to fiddle with coordinates or postcodes. Gavin Bell

Hello Kathy, Thanks for sending me your details, i have added them to the database so that if anyone else researching this family gets in touch with me i can put them in touch with you directly. Unfortunately i do not have any further information on your John Murray except that i believe he is from the Mortlach Murray's. I am at the moment compiling a database also for Mortlach and will let you know if i come across anything that would be of interest to you. Regards Ray

> Tom of Edinvillie Now why one earth did I type Edinvillie? It should have read Allachie! Anne

> Hello list, I wonder can anyone tell me, there is an Allachie Drive in > Charlestown The post code directory lists Allachie Drive and Allachy Terrace. You can find them by going to www.streetmap.co.uk and using the post code AB38 9PU in the search engine. > could this have been there in the 1830s I would be very surprised if it was known as that in the 1830s. I suspect its name arises from the modern habit of naming streets anything but 'Street'! It is shown on the current Ordnance Survey Explorer map as a road leading up from Aberlour towards Knock of Allachie, Daugh of Allachie and Wood of Allachie. Beyond these, and reached by a different road, is Burnside of Allachie, lying on the opposite bank of the Burn of Allachie. There's also Glenallachie Distillery, but that was not there in the 1830s! This map shows housing on what is now Allachie Drive; from the layout of the buildings it is easy to tell that they are new, and this is confirmed because there are only a couple of very small buildings on the 1969 one-inch map. Of all these names, only Burnside is a farm or other habitation*. The 1901 one-inch map also shows the road, Wood of Allachie and Burnside of Allachie, but no buildings at all along it. The 1872 map at www.old-maps.co.uk shows the road passing along the Braes of Allachie. It also shows Daugh of Allachie, Wood of Allachie, Knock of Allachie, Tom of Edinvillie, Burnside of Allachie and the Burn of Allachie. There might be an even older map in teh collections at the National Library of Scotland www.nls.gov.uk. *A daugh is a measure of land, estimated to yield 48 bolls of grain (a boll is a measure 'not exceeding six bushels', a bushel being 8 (imperial) gallons. A knock is a small hill, and a brae is a slope. "Burnside of ..." is a common name for farms lying on the banks of burns, and a burn is a stream (as in English 'bourne', whence for example Melbourne indirectly got its name). Tom is another word for a small hill or knoll - smaller than a knock. Hope this helps Anne

Pearl,here it is ( hopefully ) http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=SCOTLAND-CEMETERIES Cheers Ray. > > From: Pearl Montrose <montrose@wave.co.nz> > Date: 2005/02/18 Fri PM 08:36:49 GMT+13:00 > To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [MORAY] Cemetery > > Hello Ray, Thanks for that, yes I am on the Scotland Cemetery list, > but haven't been able to find out how to access their Archives, in > fact didn't know they had one, can you help please. > Pearl M. > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > Don't forget that if you delete a message, you can always visit the archives of this list http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MORAY/. The archives are also worth looking at, whether you be a new or established lister. > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > >

Hello list, I wonder can anyone tell me, there is an Allachie Drive in Charlestown, could this have been there in the 1830s, or is there an Allachie in Aberlour, I am researching the Cruikshank family that lived there. Thanks Willie Cruikshank _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

Hello Ray, Thanks for that, yes I am on the Scotland Cemetery list, but haven't been able to find out how to access their Archives, in fact didn't know they had one, can you help please. Pearl M.

Hello everyone I'm new to the list and I'm researching a family called Grant that was living in Jamaica in the 1740's (David Grant b 1744, his father was also called David, his mother Janet Dwarris was Jamaican-born.) I've two bits of information from other people researching the family, about where they came from in Scotland. One person told me they came from Cromdale, and another had copies of letters that mentioned a placename spelt differently each time but it was something like Dilachaple, Delachapel, Delichapel. I haven't been able to locate any such placename, though I found a Delliefure not far from Cromdale. Has anyone ever heard of Dilachaple, Delachapel, Delichapel? Louise Currie Australia