Hi Ian I can understand your frustration. The same thing has happened to me on a few rare occasions where I have passed on a considerable amount of information regarding a family or have made enquiries especially to answer their query and have posted the information to the enquirer and never even received the courtesy of an acknowledgement for doing so. However, I have to say that such instances are a rarity and the vast majority of fellow subscribers on all Lists I subscribe to are not like that and I have found that they are usually more than willing to assist and are prepared to exchange information or indeed to go out of their way to make enquiries regarding my query etc. as I like to think I would do for them if I had the knowledge or was in a position to search the appropriate records etc. I'm afraid, human nature being like it is, you will always get some selfish and inconsiderate individuals in every walk of life including family history circles. I am sure most Family History researchers would be able to tell of similar experiences. Alex. Gray Rutherglen.

Ian One of the reasons you have not had a response is that people forget where they put messages. . Another reason may be they have changed email address and as it is on the messageboard they would not get their reply notification if their address had changed. As you did put a message on the board, it would be gatewayed to the list, as you know and archived. It may not be the person you wanted to reply to you that does and that could be just as rewarding, if not more so. You never know, the person to whom you replied could be one day searching, find your reply and there you go. If they don't find you others will, I am sure. Carol Admin Moray Mailing List www.wakefieldfhs.org.uk/morayweb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Irene Dunne" <irdunne@webtv.net> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [MORAY] Why bother to receive a photograph > Hello Ian; > > I too have found many a response ignored. The bright side is that there > are many who do take time to respond and have exchanged information, > offered help and given encouragement. Please do not be discouraged. > Your elusive "cousin" may be the next person to whom you respond. > > Kind Regards, > > Irene > > Researching: McConnachie in Marnoch and Aberdeen. Jackson in Inverurie > and Aberdeen and Abercrombie in Angus. > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > Don't forget that if you delete a message, you can always visit the > archives of this list http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MORAY/. The > archives are also worth looking at, whether you be a new or established > lister. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > >

A good point Carol.I have had similar experiences as Ian, sending significant amounts of genealogical info and photos and receiving zilch in reply. However, now when I go to a bit of trouble for someone I make sure to include my full postal address and phone number."Cast your bread upon the waters" is still a good maxim.

Hello Ian; I too have found many a response ignored. The bright side is that there are many who do take time to respond and have exchanged information, offered help and given encouragement. Please do not be discouraged. Your elusive "cousin" may be the next person to whom you respond. Kind Regards, Irene Researching: McConnachie in Marnoch and Aberdeen. Jackson in Inverurie and Aberdeen and Abercrombie in Angus.

and remember............sometimes things get lost in the 'spam boxes'. I ,myself have accidently deleted something from the "LISTS" I belong to because I had yet to make that person a 'friend". ----- Original Message ----- From: "carol" <carol@wakefieldfhs.org.uk> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 4:33 PM Subject: Re: [MORAY] Why bother to receive a photograph > Ian > > One of the reasons you have not had a response is that people forget where > they put messages. . > > Another reason may be they have changed email address and as it is on the > messageboard they would not get their reply notification if their address > had changed. > > As you did put a message on the board, it would be gatewayed to the list, as > you know and archived. It may not be the person you wanted to reply to you > that does and that could be just as rewarding, if not more so. > > You never know, the person to whom you replied could be one day searching, > find your reply and there you go. > > If they don't find you others will, I am sure. > > Carol > Admin Moray Mailing List > www.wakefieldfhs.org.uk/morayweb > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Irene Dunne" <irdunne@webtv.net> > To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 9:54 PM > Subject: Re: [MORAY] Why bother to receive a photograph > > > > Hello Ian; > > > > I too have found many a response ignored. The bright side is that there > > are many who do take time to respond and have exchanged information, > > offered help and given encouragement. Please do not be discouraged. > > Your elusive "cousin" may be the next person to whom you respond. > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > Irene > > > > Researching: McConnachie in Marnoch and Aberdeen. Jackson in Inverurie > > and Aberdeen and Abercrombie in Angus. > > > > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > > Don't forget that if you delete a message, you can always visit the > > archives of this list http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MORAY/. The > > archives are also worth looking at, whether you be a new or established > > lister. > > > > ============================== > > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > > > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > Please do not send virus warnings to this list. If you have concerns about a virus, contact the list admin at MORAY-D-request@rootsweb.com or join VIRUS-DISCUSSIONS-L@rootsweb.com subscribe in the subject line. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > >

Why bother to receive a photograph Earlier this month I asked < How do I view the thread of a posting when it has "This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list"? > and I wish to thank Anne Burgess and Sharon for their replies. Sorry for the delay I have been visiting Bonny Scotland. I was interested in a posting where someone had appealed for other researchers with certain surname interests to contact them. I find it disappointing when responding direct to such an appeal, after spending time gathering information, that the enquirer fails to even acknowledge receipt. It makes one wonder why they bothered to make the posting in the first place. In a previous incidence of this happening I could identify a positive link and even had photographs to pass on but that enquirer will never now know what they missed out on. Ian

Hi Pete Can you tell me if Adalina BOWAN was called Alice as a pet name or was it interchangeable in the family? Any idea where this use of Alice/Adalina came from? According to my reference books Adalina is a Latinate version of Adeline, a French diminutive of Adele, although it does appear to have had a vogue use in Britain in the 19th century. However, I haven't seen it used as a synonym for Alice before. Regards Ray Hennessy Forenames website: www.whatsinaname.net ----- Original Message ----- From: peteb2001@hotmail.com To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 8:57 AM Subject: [MORAY] James Bowan & Adalina (Alice) Bowan (Bannerman) This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/BgC.2ACI/1271 Message Board Post: After some unsuccessful searches for Alice Bannerman, I may have come across my grandfathers paternal Mother, Adalina (Alice) Bowan. Adalina was born in 1891 in Alford Aberdeen and lived in and around the Elgin area till 1911. James was born Glasgow around 1888 and in the 1901 census was living in the Calford area of Glasgow This couple lived in the area of Glasgow until Alice died in 1943. Any information regarding this couple esp. Adalina (Alice) may help me know for sure if she is my Grandfathers mother. ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== " Reply All " ........Please, please, please, when replying to a posted message make sure that the reply is sent to the list and not just the sender of the message. This is done by clicking " Reply All " Thank you ;-) ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Thanks Marian. I am researching my ancestor's tenancy of the farm at Baronsmill in the period 1770-1805. Harry.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/BgC.2ACI/1272 Message Board Post: I'm trying to find any info on a William Cumming who lived in the Elgin area upto and around 1913-14 and who then emigrated to Australia and joined the army there. My Grandfathers was born illigitimately (and a month after being born was given up for adoption) to Alice Bannerman at 190a High St, Elgin 4th Dec 1910 and William is stated on the birh register as his natural Father. I dont think there was any love lost between Alice and William as a year after the birth she took out a paternity suite against him.....maybe this is why he jumped ship?? Any information regarding William or Alice would be of great interest and help in tracing my granfathers history.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/BgC.2ACI/1271 Message Board Post: After some unsuccessful searches for Alice Bannerman, I may have come across my grandfathers paternal Mother, Adalina (Alice) Bowan. Adalina was born in 1891 in Alford Aberdeen and lived in and around the Elgin area till 1911. James was born Glasgow around 1888 and in the 1901 census was living in the Calford area of Glasgow This couple lived in the area of Glasgow until Alice died in 1943. Any information regarding this couple esp. Adalina (Alice) may help me know for sure if she is my Grandfathers mother.

Several years ago I was interested in researching the Seafield archives in the National Archives. I asked for and received permission from the Seafield Estate but the researcher I engaged reported that, although there are several tons of material in the archives, little of this has been indexed and consequently research would be very difficult. Does anyone know if this situation has changed?. Harry Montgomery,Ontario.

Hi folks, To add to what Gavin said, indeed his mother, Mary I, Queen of Scots, had a go at controlling the border families (they weren't clans until Walter Scott invented the modern clan system in 1822) as well by appointing her 3rd husband James Hepburn 4th Earl of Bothwell to control the Borders from his stronghold at Hermitage Castle. As Gavin said the Scottish Parliament passed statutes about the subject but ironically many of those noblemen serving in the Scottish Parliament and helping in passing the law were indeed among the worst offenders though of course they had lackeys to actually do the deed for them. Cheers Mark John M Sutherland-Fisher Director: Czech Match Ltd North Cadboll House, North Cadboll, Fearn by Tain, Ross-shire. IV20 1TN Tel and Fax: (0044)1862 871877 Mobile: 07765 272815 e-mail: info@czechmatch.co.uk website: www.czechmatch.co.uk "Bringing Two Worlds Together" -----Original Message----- From: Gavin Bell [mailto:g.bell@which.net] Sent: 15 March 2005 18:17 To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re:[MORAY] and cattle-stealing Chris wrote: > ... and most of the clans were involved in appropriating undefended > cattle. > K James VI & I wanted this rieving stopped at the beginning of his > English reign in 1603. He was active in trying to bring the clans into line some time before he succeeded to the English throne. In 1587 the Scottish Parliament passed an Act "For the quieting and keeping in obedience of the disordourit inhabitantis of the Bordouris, Hielandis and Ilis" and another one in 1594 "For punishment of thift, reiff, oppressioun and sorning", both of which included detailed lists of clans and chieftains considered troublesom. The first of these was passed when James was aged 21, and was succeeding (after initial setbacks) in imposing his authority in Scotland. Gavin Bell ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== MORAY OPR's. The OPR's for the Moray area are now starting to be transcribed and volunteers are needed. Would anyone interested in transcribing the OPR's for our area please contact me via my usual email address or visit the Moray Rootsweb pages and contact me via the mailing list Admin. ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx

At 10:27 PM 15/03/2005, you wrote: >I am looking at a record on Libindx that says: > >Father's Name: James McQueen Drummore Glenferness > >I see Glenferness House and Glenferness Mains, near Dulsie. But when I put >Drummore in Streetmap.uk, the only Drummore I see in the Highlands are >Drummore of Clava and Drummore of Cantray. They are over near the Nairn >River. Why would a listing have these two locations like this? > >Holly >East Bangor, PA, US The place beside Glenferness House is Drumore, as can be seen in this view : Click on : <http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=294500&Y=843500&A=Y&Z=3>http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=294500&Y=843500&A=Y&Z=3 To see the identical area as it appeared in the Ordinance Survey Map dated 1874, click on : http://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.htm then enter the numbers "294500 , 843500" into the search box, click on "Co-ordinate" then Search. You will be offered two choices. Chose no.2 Nairnshire, then click on Enlarged view. When you look around this enlarged map, you will see both Glenferness House and Drumore. You can reposition the area of interest in the maps by clicking on the area which you wish to be at the centre of the view, or zoom in and out of the modern map, so hat you can get a better idea of the setting of these places. HTH _ _ Regards, Ed Barron <ejbarron@netspace.net.au>

I have jut managed to acquire a copy of a book titled "Vital Registration - a manual of the law and practice concerning the registration of births, deaths and marriages in Scotland" by G F Bisset-Smith. Among other things, it describes down the precise wording required in various different situations, such as the way the mother's surname is listed if she is unmarried, or if the child is not her husband's. Also the way multiple surnames are to be listed. In particular, "Registrars are forbidden to enter the name of any person as the father of an illegitimate child, save at the joint request of the mother and the person acknowledging the paternity, who must attend the Registration and sign the Register along with the mother ... When the paternity is acknowledged, the child is registered in the name of the father ... when the father does not attend at the Registration ... the entry is made under her surname only .." In spite of the dusrty subject matter, the author manages to display either a dry or an unintentional sense of humour, for example he writes, "Most legitimate births are registered [by the] father ... who generally remembers the mother's maiden surname ... " and, "A very common error is for the informant to state ... the day of birth wrong by a full week ... if the informant is hazy in this way, the Registrar may find it necessary to send him back to the mother to make sure ..." So if anyone is looking for chapter and verse to make sense of something in a certificate, just drop me an e-mail. Anne Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never fail to be amused

Chris wrote: > ... and most of the clans were involved in appropriating undefended > cattle. > K James VI & I wanted this rieving stopped at the beginning of his > English reign in 1603. He was active in trying to bring the clans into line some time before he succeeded to the English throne. In 1587 the Scottish Parliament passed an Act "For the quieting and keeping in obedience of the disordourit inhabitantis of the Bordouris, Hielandis and Ilis" and another one in 1594 "For punishment of thift, reiff, oppressioun and sorning", both of which included detailed lists of clans and chieftains considered troublesom. The first of these was passed when James was aged 21, and was succeeding (after initial setbacks) in imposing his authority in Scotland. Gavin Bell

Thank you to those who answered my query - I knew you guys would set me straight. Now that I see it, I don't know how I missed it in the first place. Holly Ed Barron wrote: The place beside Glenferness House is Drumore, as can be seen in this view : Click on : http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=294500 <http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=294500&Y=843500&A=Y&Z=3> &Y=843500&A=Y&Z=3 To see the identical area as it appeared in the Ordinance Survey Map dated 1874, click on : http://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.htm then enter the numbers "294500 , 843500" into the search box, click on "Co-ordinate" then Search.

> I am looking at a record on Libindx that says: > Father's Name: James McQueen Drummore Glenferness > I see Glenferness House and Glenferness Mains, near Dulsie. But when I > put > Drummore in Streetmap.uk, the only Drummore I see in the Highlands are > Drummore of Clava and Drummore of Cantray. They are over near the Nairn > River. Why would a listing have these two locations like this? > Holly It depends on what places happen to be marked on modern maps, and how they are spelled on the map. Drummore is a fairly common sort of place name - Drum is from Gaelic 'druim' meaning a ridge, and More is Gaelic 'mor' meaning big. So Drummore (or Drumore) means 'big ridge'. Try searching on www.streetmap.co.uk for 'Drum' and 'Druim' and see how many results you get! Drummore of Clava and Drummore of Cantray are two farms, one at each end of the same ridge, as it happens, and called 'of Clava' and 'of Cantray' to distinguish them from one another; and your Drumore of Glenferness is yet another. (If you search for 'Drumore' you'll find that there are three in the area called 'Highland'; the one at Glenferness, one on the Black Isle and one near Evanton.) HTH Anne

As a new member of this List, I would like to introduce my family research subjects. Lachlan GRANT b ab. 1796 Inverness, Inverallan was a master blacksmith employing 3 journeymen at Ferness Bridge in the 1851 Census. In 1824 he married Jane WALKER b Moray, Rafford, at Ardclach In 1857 they sailed to Australia on the Carrier Dove along with their family: 1. John and his wife Jane 2. Jane and her husband James McKenzie b Inverness (my g.g.grandparents) 3. William 4. Jessie Their older children, George, James and Mary had preceded them to Australia and presumably given a good report! In 1841 they were at Bridge End and in 1951 at Ferness Bridge Looking for Lachlan's parents and their burial place. Ever hopeful!...............Judy. Perth. W. Australia

I cannot help with "Moray pirates", but on the subject of <some cattle rustling along the borders> for a good read get hold of a copy of "The Steel Bonnets". This lists most of the families involved, but one major omission is the HUTTON name. My copy of the book is on loan to a friend, so I am unable to comment on ELLIOTT involvement. Pat(rick) R. L. Dunbar RESEARCHING the DUNBAR name, ANYWHERE, ANY TIME Organiser, Dunbar Family Society (UK) Member - Guild of One-Name Studies, Aberdeen & N.E. Scotland FHS, Scottish Genealogy Society mailto:dunbar@one-name.org http://www.dunbarfamilysociety.org.uk (for family history information) http://www.debbiedunbar.net (for equestrian art) -----Original Message----- From: Chris Ridings [mailto:tutu@atu.com.au] Sent: 12 March 2005 16:51 To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: Moray Pirates? I don't know about pirates but there was some cattle rustling along the borders and I understand the ELLIOTT clan was one of the border clans. Does this help? Chris Ridings from Ryde, NSW -----Original Message----- From: Sybil Chapman [mailto:schapman@tex1.net] Sent: Sunday, 13 March 2005 2:20 To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Moray Pirates? My great-grandfather William Elliott Gillean told his grandson Roscoe Gillean that our ancestors were pirates before they came to America. Does anyone on this list know of any Moray History books or other books that deal with Moray pirates? Thanks for any help. ______________________________ ______________________________

The clan INNES, like ELLIOTT, I understand to be a border clan, and most of the clans were involved in appropriating undefended cattle. K James VI & I wanted this rieving stopped at the beginning of his English reign in 1603. Some went to Ireland as part of the Ulster plantation, and it seems, a lot also went to North America. Of course from 1746 after Culloden was a devastating time and there was much disruption. Shalom Chris Ridings from hot Ryde, NSW. -----Original Message----- From: Kaj Andersson [mailto:kaj.andersson@kajan.com] Sent: Monday, 14 March 2005 6:56 To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Moray Pirates? This was interesting news. Perhaps no true connections, but Alexander Innes, born in Banff and living in Gothenburg (not Holland, but Sweden) also was part owner of two ships, both named Neptune or Neptunus. The other owners of the ships were Laurent Tarras, half brother to Alex Innes, also from Bannf, and during some times mr Charles Blaurock. It is well known that dutch city planners and scottish tradesmen where very well represented in Gothenburg during those days. Howard, we have earlier discussed the possibility of a George Smith being engaged in the Gothenburg based Swedish East India Company. Some time ago I found this note in the Maritime Museum of Goteborg. It is a letter adressed to J. Denison & Co in London dated 1814-08-19, regarding the insurance of two brigs Neptune, making a joint trip to Gibraltar. ".By this we pray You will insure against all and very risk £400 Stirling on 1/4 of the shiff Neptune, Capitain John Hagberg and £450 Stirling on 1/4 of her cargo consisting of iron, tar, pitch, timber, spares and deals, £800 Stirling on the ship Neptune, the 2nd, Capitain C.H. Röse and £1200 Stirling on her cargo consisting of tar, iron, timber, spares and deals, at and from Gothenburg to Gibraltar with liberty to touch Cadiz and discharge part or the whole of this cargo, at any port or ports in the Mediterranean including but not higher then Leghorn, with proportionate returns of any part on the whole is discharged .at Cadiz or Gibraltar, and on additional premium of the vessels keen to proceed as far as Nessles. According to the best information all is arranged with the barbary and our flag is no more exposed to the depritiations of theirs corsairs, we hope you will of course effectuate these insurance at moderate premium 6% on there and out. Both vessels are since yesterday quite ready for seal and kept as all ours. Ships with the very best order." In my conspiracies, I have searched the reasons for the Innes sons to leave Banff. All three male offspring of the family left Scotland, during what I believe was a very rough time (1760´s). Can this be a clue, although the two ships Neptune in my story actually is somewhat late? Regards, Kaj Andersson ______________________________