Sandy, If it is not too much trouble I would be grateful if you could check the Kirk records for Forres for mention of the following christenings. 1. Margaret Slorach (my great grandmother) bap 20 Mar 1925, illegitimate daughter of George Slorach and Ann Taylor 2. Ann Slorach bap 28 Nov 1828 illegitimate daughter of George Slorach and Ann Taylor 3. Robert Slorach bap 28 Nov 1828 illegitimate son of George Slorach and Christian Frazer Note that Ann and Robert were baptised in the same church on the same day but they had different mothers. If it is the same George Slorach in all three cases then the Kirk records should be interesting! However, there were two men named George Slorach living in Forres about that time. Thanks Best regards Peter Ferguson Woodstock NSW Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "alexander archibald" <aasc13970@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 6:06 AM Subject: Re: [MORAY] Sluggan > William, > It is quite common for the Parish Kirk Session minutes to > record cases where they disciplined parishioners found guilty of > fornication where an illegitimate child was born while the baptism of the > child would not be recorded in the Old Parish Records and thus not in the > IGI. > Most of the Kirk Session minutes which have survived are held > in the Archives of Scotland in Edinburgh but are not available on > line.Similarly RC parish records (copies of which are held in these > Archives) contain data not transcribed for inclusion in the IGI. > If you let me have details of the individuals and parishes > involve I will try to trace them on my next visit to the Archives > hopefully towards the end of May > Sandy Archibald > Edinburgh > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Innes" <w.innes@sympatico.ca> > To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 7:50 PM > Subject: [MORAY] Sluggan > > > Thank to everyone who helped me find out about “SLUGGAN”. > > What we found out was that in the early 1800’s the building in question > was > named Sluggan and later, about 1825 was changed to Claggan and Upper > Claggan. The 1881 Census shows it as Claggan in the community of > Glenlivet. > > My next queery also concerns a ‘proverbial brick wall’. Can anyone tell me > if there are any other birth records available, other than the IGI. > > I have a feeling that my ancestor may have been an illegitimate child and > was wondering if there are any such records for either Inveravon or > Glenlivet. > > William in Montreal

William, It is quite common for the Parish Kirk Session minutes to record cases where they disciplined parishioners found guilty of fornication where an illegitimate child was born while the baptism of the child would not be recorded in the Old Parish Records and thus not in the IGI. Most of the Kirk Session minutes which have survived are held in the Archives of Scotland in Edinburgh but are not available on line.Similarly RC parish records (copies of which are held in these Archives) contain data not transcribed for inclusion in the IGI. If you let me have details of the individuals and parishes involve I will try to trace them on my next visit to the Archives hopefully towards the end of May Sandy Archibald Edinburgh ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Innes" <w.innes@sympatico.ca> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 7:50 PM Subject: [MORAY] Sluggan Thank to everyone who helped me find out about “SLUGGAN”. What we found out was that in the early 1800’s the building in question was named Sluggan and later, about 1825 was changed to Claggan and Upper Claggan. The 1881 Census shows it as Claggan in the community of Glenlivet. My next queery also concerns a ‘proverbial brick wall’. Can anyone tell me if there are any other birth records available, other than the IGI. I have a feeling that my ancestor may have been an illegitimate child and was wondering if there are any such records for either Inveravon or Glenlivet. William in Montreal ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== Don't forget that if you delete a message, you can always visit the archives of this list http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MORAY/. The archives are also worth looking at, whether you be a new or established lister. ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.1 - Release Date: 02/05/2005 -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 392 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now!

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/BgC.2ACI/1282.1.1 Message Board Post: Hi Lorna Thankyou for your help Regards John Reid

Hi everyone, I am interested in any information about ANY Innes' in Botriphnie at ANY time. I have hit a brick wall and looking to make some links the non-linear way. Especially any Innes from Botriphnie that may have emigrated. Thanks! Karen

Not sure if this pertains to your query as I somehow missed this thread............I have a James FORSYTH b. Duffus, Moray 16 Oct 1808, parents William FORSYTH and Elizabeth ROBERTSON. James married my Isabel CALDER from Nairn. He emigrated to Canada with his wife and seven children in 1849 on the ship Birbice out of Aberdeen. Regards, Sherry Canton, Michigan

Some short time ago a question was raised regarding the information recorded on a birth certificate regarding the date of marriage and the place it took place. At the time it was pointed out it was not uncommon for this information to be erroneous and I add below the text of an RCE relating to the birth of one of my ancestors, David Alexander Scott. Register of Corrected entries for his birth record at 692/2/1188 reads as follows: In column 4 of entry 1188 in the Register Book of Births for the year 1895 under the heading 'Date and Place of marriage cancel '1891' and substitute '1892', cancel '25th' and substitute '26th' and cancel 'No. Leith' and substitute 'St Andrew, Edinburgh'. The above alterations are made under the direction and by the written authority of the Sheriff in consequence of the Deposition dated 15th October 1895 of Charles Scott informant of the birth to which said entry relates. Charles, the father, did not get anything other, than the month, right when he registered his son's birth. Bet his wife gave him quite a hard time! Ian A C Scott

Thank to everyone who helped me find out about “SLUGGAN”. What we found out was that in the early 1800’s the building in question was named Sluggan and later, about 1825 was changed to Claggan and Upper Claggan. The 1881 Census shows it as Claggan in the community of Glenlivet. My next queery also concerns a ‘proverbial brick wall’. Can anyone tell me if there are any other birth records available, other than the IGI. I have a feeling that my ancestor may have been an illegitimate child and was wondering if there are any such records for either Inveravon or Glenlivet. William in Montreal

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/BgC.2ACI/1282.1 Message Board Post: the igi has only one match for that date: ISOBEL FORSYTH Female Birth: 01 OCT 1790 Christening: 03 OCT 1790 Urquhart, Moray, Scotland Father: JOHN FORSYTH Mother: AGNES WINSTER and then her siblings, (with some slight variations of spelling of mother's maiden surname). ANN FORSYTH Female Birth: 29 MAY 1779 Christening: 31 MAY 1779 Urquhart, Moray, Scotland Father: JOHN FORSYTH Mother: AGNES WINCHESTER JAMES FORSYTH Male Birth: 03 APR 1782 Christening: 07 APR 1782 Urquhart, Moray, Scotland Father: JOHN FORSYTH Mother: AGNES WINCHESTER ELSPET FORSYTH Female Birth: 24 JUL 1785 Christening: 27 JUL 1785 Urquhart, Moray, Scotland Father: JOHN FORSYTH Mother: AGNES WINSTER ISOBEL FORSYTH Female Birth: 01 OCT 1790 Christening: 03 OCT 1790 Urquhart, Moray, Scotland Father: JOHN FORSYTH Mother: AGNES WINSTER JEAN FORSYTH Female Birth: 10 MAY 1793 Christening: 12 MAY 1793 Urquhart, Moray, Scotland Father: JOHN FORSYTH Mother: AGNES WINSTER MARGT. FORSYTH Female Birth: 07 APR 1794 Christening: 14 APR 1794 Urquhart, Moray, Scotland Father: JOHN FORSYTH Mother: AGNES WINCHESTER HELEN FORSYTH Female Birth: 25 NOV 1796 Christening: 27 NOV 1796 Urquhart, Moray, Scotland Father: JOHN FORSYTH Mother: AGNES WINCHESTER ELIZABETH FORSYTH Female Birth: 26 APR 1799 Christening: 28 APR 1799 Urquhart, Moray, Scotland Father: JOHN FORSYTH Mother: AGNES WINCHESTER JOHN FORSYTH Male Birth: 19 MAY 1801 Christening: 21 MAY 1801 Urquhart, Moray, Scotland Father: JOHN FORSYTH Mother: AGNES WINCHESTER kind regards, Lorna.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg//BgC.2ACI/1285 Message Board Post: Alexander Spence married Margaret Anderson on the 24th June 1820 at New Spynie, Moray. So far, I have found 3 children, Barbara(my g.g.grandmother) b. 28th Jan 1823, Janet b. 20th Nov 1824 and James b. 17th Oct 1827. Does anyone have any additional information on this family? I would be particularly interested in the names of parents to allow me to search further back. Thanks, Ian

Thanks to Ian and Marnie for your words of wisdom. Very much appreciated. I am visiting Scotland in two weeks and if I can not find any more clues for my MACKINTOSH's / CALDER's / LAMB's that will more than likely be the end of the road with this branch for a bit. Then onto the WILLIAMSON's in Ayrshire. Another brick wall that I hope will tumble!!! Many thanks, Sherry Canton, Michigan

Any idea where your Calders came from? The Calders I am researching at the moment came from Grantown area ie Cromdale, Advie and Inverallan and some in Duthil, as did most of the rest. If you want to view my whole tree it is pretty much up to date and can be found Rootsweb - WorldConnectProject - search under database by keyword: Craigstree Sorry the number search is not working at present, have informed them. Hope this is of use.Get back to me if you need to. --- Wiccanpt2 <Wiccanpt2@netzero.net> wrote: > Melissa: > > I so much would like to find others researching this > family but fear I never > will. Doesn't anyone care about my family!!! <grin> > > My James CALDER did have a sister Isabella (she is > the only sibling that I > can "prove"). She emigrated to Canada with James in > 1832. She would have > been born abt. 1790 (She lists her age as 70 in the > 1861 census for Oneida, > Haldimand, Ontario). She never married. According > to her Will, she was a > Spinster. She lived most of her life with Anne > CALDER (dau. of James) and > her husband, James WILLIAMSON. > > Many thanks for writing, > > Sherry Williamson > Canton, MI > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > If you need to unsub for your holidays, change your > email address, or report anything to the admin of > the list - all this information can be found at > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/SCT/MORAY.html > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million > records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the > world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

G'Day, I read your post with interest. I have an Isabella (or Isobel) Calder who was supposedly born about 1796 (I think in Divie) she married William Ritchie 1816. Isabella and William Ritchie had a daughter Janet in 1829 in Rafford, Moray, Scotland. Janet married James Fraser in 1849 and they came to Australia in 1855 with a young family. I found your post interesting in that the same names seem to flow through the lines. Janet and James Fraser had a daughter Isabella and a son William. (it may well be just a coincidence but you never know until you ask). I can not seem to get back past Isabella Calder from here in Australia. All the best for your searching. Melissa. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wiccanpt2" <Wiccanpt2@netzero.net> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 11:18 AM Subject: Off Topic - Brick Walls > Wondering.............When does someone say when. I have gathered from this > list that many of you have been at this a very long time. I have only been > at this since Nov 2003. I hold stock in scotlandspeople.com <grin>. > > I am not much further then what was started in 1981. I have come to a dead > end with James CALDER (1785), Janet MACKINTOSH (abt. 1787), William CALDER > (?) and Isobel LAMB (?) {James Calder's parents). My Williamson line from > Ayrshire has also met the same results. > > My hat is off to everyone that contributes to this list. I have learned so > much from all of you. Many, many thanks. Your knowledge has been > invaluable. > > When does one give up here? I am curious. Success stories would be welcome > about now. > > Kind regards, > > Sherry Williamson >

Thank you Ian. I just might go ahead and order that film, I might find a couple of my other lines on that film also. Thanks for the help, Kathy. ----- Original Message ----- From: <IACSCOTT@aol.com> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [MORAY] Death of Robert Murray > Hi Kathy > > While there is obviously some sort of entry for this death it is liable to > brief to say the least and may even be a one line 'note' of the burial in > the > churchyard. What the LIBINDX is telling you is that the entry appears on a > Microfiche/film of the Aberlour OPR and you would need to look at the OPR > to be > sure what is there. > > Ian A C Scott > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > If you need to unsub for your holidays, change your email address, or > report anything to the admin of the list - all this information can be > found at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/SCT/MORAY.html > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

Sherry wrote, < When does someone say when? I have only been at this since Nov 2003. When does one give up here? > Genealogy is many things to many people and we are all different. Some are so lucky that there is an abundance of material helping them to make progress fast and others have so little to go on or get stuck with such a common name that there seems no way forward. When you find out things for yourself you know how confident you can be with your research and whether you backed it up with another source. We all dream of finding an 'Internet cousin' who still lives in the ancestral county but if you haven't found such a treasure and find it a lonely plod then maybe it is time to take stock. I find that keeping all options open while researching several family names is best. When something comes along you 'go with the flow'. If you are stuck in one direction what about taking an opportunity of changing tack and interviewing an old relative about their life and times? Ask them if they have any old photographs and who the people are and scan them or take copies. Remember, if it isn't recorded down then people's memories die with them. Some sources are going to be there always and some are not. If for one reason or another you feel that you have got as far as you are going to get then why not type out what you have found and present it for future generations as a booklet adding photographs, certificates, obituaries, maps and anything else you can add of interest. Sometimes we make our own good luck and you never know but it might be just around the corner, Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wiccanpt2" <Wiccanpt2@netzero.net> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 2:18 AM Subject: [MORAY] Off Topic - Brick Walls > Wondering.............When does someone say when. I have gathered from this > list that many of you have been at this a very long time. I have only been > at this since Nov 2003. I hold stock in scotlandspeople.com <grin>. > > I am not much further then what was started in 1981. I have come to a dead > end with James CALDER (1785), Janet MACKINTOSH (abt. 1787), William CALDER > (?) and Isobel LAMB (?) {James Calder's parents). My Williamson line from > Ayrshire has also met the same results. > > My hat is off to everyone that contributes to this list. I have learned so > much from all of you. Many, many thanks. Your knowledge has been > invaluable. > > When does one give up here? I am curious. Success stories would be welcome > about now. > > Kind regards, > > Sherry Williamson > > > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > Don't forget that if you delete a message, you can always visit the archives of this list http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MORAY/. The archives are also worth looking at, whether you be a new or established lister. > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > >

Apparently we are only supposed to give up when we get to Adam and Eve ! Ray > > From: "Wiccanpt2" <Wiccanpt2@netzero.net> > Date: 2005/04/30 Sat PM 01:18:16 GMT+12:00 > To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [MORAY] Off Topic - Brick Walls > > Wondering.............When does someone say when. I have gathered from this > list that many of you have been at this a very long time. I have only been > at this since Nov 2003. I hold stock in scotlandspeople.com <grin>. > > I am not much further then what was started in 1981. I have come to a dead > end with James CALDER (1785), Janet MACKINTOSH (abt. 1787), William CALDER > (?) and Isobel LAMB (?) {James Calder's parents). My Williamson line from > Ayrshire has also met the same results. > > My hat is off to everyone that contributes to this list. I have learned so > much from all of you. Many, many thanks. Your knowledge has been > invaluable. > > When does one give up here? I am curious. Success stories would be welcome > about now. > > Kind regards, > > Sherry Williamson > > > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > Don't forget that if you delete a message, you can always visit the archives of this list http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MORAY/. The archives are also worth looking at, whether you be a new or established lister. > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > >

In a message dated 30/04/2005 13:30:32 GMT Daylight Time, karenadona@yahoo.co.uk writes: Or when we too join the ancestors in the sky! Then there should be no brick walls! Ian A C Scott

Or when we too join the ancestors in the sky! Karen --- raybot@xtra.co.nz wrote: > Apparently we are only supposed to give up when we > get to Adam and Eve ! > Ray > > > > From: "Wiccanpt2" <Wiccanpt2@netzero.net> > > Date: 2005/04/30 Sat PM 01:18:16 GMT+12:00 > > To: MORAY-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [MORAY] Off Topic - Brick Walls > > > > Wondering.............When does someone say when. > I have gathered from this > > list that many of you have been at this a very > long time. I have only been > > at this since Nov 2003. I hold stock in > scotlandspeople.com <grin>. > > > > I am not much further then what was started in > 1981. I have come to a dead > > end wit h James CALDER (1785), Janet MACKINTOSH > (abt. 1787), William CALDER > > (?) and Isobel LAMB (?) {James Calder's parents). > My Williamson line from > > Ayrshire has also met the same results. > > > > My hat is off to everyone that contributes to this > list. I have learned so > > much from all of you. Many, many thanks. Your > knowledge has been > > invaluable. > > > > When does one give up here? I am curious. > Success stories would be welcome > > about now. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Sherry Williamson > > > > > > > > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > > Don't forget that if you delete a message, you can > always visit the archives of this list > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/MORAY/. The > archives are also worth looking at, whether you be a > new or established lister. > > > > ============================== > > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search > not only for > > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > > > > > > > ==== MORAY Mailing List ==== > MORAY OPR's. The OPR's for the Moray area are now > starting to be transcribed and volunteers are > needed. Would anyone interested in transcribing the > OPR's for our area please contact me via my usual > email address or visit the Moray Rootsweb pages and > contact me via the mailing list Admin. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about > your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the > last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > >

Melissa: I so much would like to find others researching this family but fear I never will. Doesn't anyone care about my family!!! <grin> My James CALDER did have a sister Isabella (she is the only sibling that I can "prove"). She emigrated to Canada with James in 1832. She would have been born abt. 1790 (She lists her age as 70 in the 1861 census for Oneida, Haldimand, Ontario). She never married. According to her Will, she was a Spinster. She lived most of her life with Anne CALDER (dau. of James) and her husband, James WILLIAMSON. Many thanks for writing, Sherry Williamson Canton, MI

Wondering.............When does someone say when. I have gathered from this list that many of you have been at this a very long time. I have only been at this since Nov 2003. I hold stock in scotlandspeople.com <grin>. I am not much further then what was started in 1981. I have come to a dead end with James CALDER (1785), Janet MACKINTOSH (abt. 1787), William CALDER (?) and Isobel LAMB (?) {James Calder's parents). My Williamson line from Ayrshire has also met the same results. My hat is off to everyone that contributes to this list. I have learned so much from all of you. Many, many thanks. Your knowledge has been invaluable. When does one give up here? I am curious. Success stories would be welcome about now. Kind regards, Sherry Williamson

Hello Scott, I am not an expert on the meaning of the occupation "Gardener", but I believe from my own research into a member of my English ancestry who was also a gardener that it was a well regarded occupation. I suspect that it more closely resembled the more recent "horticulturalist" than to a market gardener. Having said that, I note that the Scottish Documents site describes a Gardener as "one employed to tend a garden." Variants of the spelling are "gardiner", "gardner", "gairdner" and "gairner". So, while not solving your question, I have perhaps given you some food for thought, which may bring a response from a Scottish person who can more accurately explain the situation there. Regards from Denise Thompson, Sydney, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Matthews" <scottmm@squirrel.com.au> To: <MORAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 10:57 AM Subject: Mort; Gardener. > Good morning everyone, > > In searching an Elgin Film (990799) recently, I becames just a little > confused with the use of the word "Mort". The time span was about the > 1730s > and the word was cosistently used after the father's name in baptism > records. As it was used more than once for the sames father, it could not > have referred to him being dead. It was like a occupation or address. It > has intrigued me. > > My forbears, in Moray, from about 1750 and well into the 1800s were > regularily listed as Gardeners. I would be interested in knowing what the > full scope of such an occupation would have been in those times in Moray. > > Regards > > Scott Matthews > (Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia) >