This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: gbell152 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.mor.general/2312.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Isobel and Isabella are interchangeable. But that is not the end of the story. The OPR records before 1855 are notoriously incomplete (it cost money to have an entry made) so the fact that you may have found someone with an appropriate name in the appropriate time-frame does not necessarily mean that you have definitely found who you were looking for. Sorry. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: mervally99 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.mor.general/2312/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hello list, I am having a little problem that I hope that this lists obvious knowledge can help with. Standardised spelling is a relatively recent convention so I am used to having a bit of flexability when it comes to names. My question is 'How far do you take it?' I have a Christina Clark that was born to Peter Clark and Isabella Wood in c.1841 in Marnoch, Banffshire. My source for her parents is Christinas death certificate. In the 1851 Census I have Peter and Isabella living in King Edward, Aberdeenshire with Isabella Brown aged 21. Ms Brown is related to Peter as a step-daughter obviously showing that Isabella Wood was previously married. I cannot find a Wood married to a Brown within the correct timescale or an Isobel(la) Brown born to a Wood and Brown. However I have found an Isobel Brown born to Alexander Brown and Isobel Watt in 1830 in Forgue. How confident would you be that this was the correct person? I know that Death Certificate information can be questionable as the primary knowledge for the certificate is deceased but is Wood and Watt sufficiently close enough to have confidence that it is correct? I apologise for the complicated example, I hope it makes sense. Mark Whitton. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: GordonSmith552 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.mor.general/482.556.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: We would have to work your sequence back a bit in time. My James Stronach was born in Elgin 21 Nov 1767. Gord Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

> I am a struggling forever "beginner" genealogist! May I > please take > advantage of your knowledge and ask how I would find Roman > Catholic church > records say for Parish of Rathven - including Buckie, > Lossiemouth, > Kirkmichael etc. - Thanks if you can help! Hi Jean The surviving RC registers for the present version of Moray have been microfilmed and the films are held in the Moray Local Heritage Centre. The present version of Moray includes the parishes of Rathven (Buckie), Drainie (Lossiemouth) and Kirkmichael (Tomintoul - but beware, there are at least four other parishes called Kirkmichael elsewhere in Scotland). The Kirkmichael and Rathven ones have been indexed on LIBINDX and are online at http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp I can't swear to it, but I don't think there is a surviving RC register for Drainie. HTH Anne

> Thank you for the lead Anne. I did as you suggested but ran > into a glitch. > There are over 2400 names in the Libindx and I tried to scroll > down to NM150773 but it stopped at about NM120000 at which > point I was advised that I had to re-program to allow me to go > further. Oh? That's odd, because I've not had problems doing that. You just need to wait until all the references have loaded, which can take a while. Anne

Hello Anne. I am a struggling forever "beginner" genealogist! May I please take advantage of your knowledge and ask how I would find Roman Catholic church records say for Parish of Rathven - including Buckie, Lossiemouth, Kirkmichael etc. - Thanks if you can help! Jean Stewart Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Burgess" <[email protected]> To: "William Innes" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [MORAY] RC family >> Thank you for the lead Anne. I did as you suggested but ran >> into a glitch. >> There are over 2400 names in the Libindx and I tried to scroll >> down to NM150773 but it stopped at about NM120000 at which >> point I was advised that I had to re-program to allow me to go >> further. > Oh? That's odd, because I've not had problems doing that. You > just need to wait until all the references have loaded, which > can take a while. > > Anne > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you for the lead Anne. I did as you suggested but ran into a glitch. There are over 2400 names in the Libindx and I tried to scroll down to NM150773 but it stopped at about NM120000 at which point I was advised that I had to re-program to allow me to go further. What I did was to go to NM150773 and go forward by 20 numbers and then backwards doing the same thing with no luck. I then realized that I had, a while back, listed all of the Innes MI's in the Libindx and checked for a birth of a James Innes in 1854 without success. Thank again. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Burgess" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; "SCT-BANFFSHIRE" <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 11:06 AM Subject: Re: [MORAY] RC family >> I've been trying to get additional information on what Libindx >> NM150773 is telling me. >> a) It shows me that a James Innes was born 9 Apr.1854 in >> Kirkmichael, Banff. >> b) The parents were John Innes in Fodderletter and Margaret >> MCIntosh Tomintoul. >> c) Libindx indicates that James baptism was recorded in MF A >> Km2 which I believe to > be RC. > Yes, MF A Km 2 is the microfilm of the RC register for > Kirkmichael. > >> It would be nice to find out who this John Innes was and if he >> and Margaret McIntosh >> had additional children. > There are two ways to do this; the easy way is to input 'Innes' > in the People Search on LIBINDX and scroll down to NM150773. Any > other children of the same couple will have numbers fairly close > to NM150773, and the same microfilm reference. The hard way is > to read through the whole of the microfilm. > >> I searched the IGI and checked ScotlandsPeople but came up >> empty. > Naturally, because neither the IGI nor SP contains information > from RC registers. > > Anne > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

> I've been trying to get additional information on what Libindx > NM150773 is telling me. > a) It shows me that a James Innes was born 9 Apr.1854 in > Kirkmichael, Banff. > b) The parents were John Innes in Fodderletter and Margaret > MCIntosh Tomintoul. > c) Libindx indicates that James baptism was recorded in MF A > Km2 which I believe to > be RC. Yes, MF A Km 2 is the microfilm of the RC register for Kirkmichael. > It would be nice to find out who this John Innes was and if he > and Margaret McIntosh > had additional children. There are two ways to do this; the easy way is to input 'Innes' in the People Search on LIBINDX and scroll down to NM150773. Any other children of the same couple will have numbers fairly close to NM150773, and the same microfilm reference. The hard way is to read through the whole of the microfilm. > I searched the IGI and checked ScotlandsPeople but came up > empty. Naturally, because neither the IGI nor SP contains information from RC registers. Anne

Thank you, all those folk who answered my questions so fully. That is most informative and helpful. Clearly I have a lot to learn about "the land of (some) of my fathers".... I must admit the "mort cloth" sounds like a good idea... think how many trees which would otherwise go into making coffins such a practice would save! I am fully reconciled to the idea that I will not get back any further than the 1777 wedding of George Hay, "pensioner", although I must admit I have engaged a professional researcher, a specialist in British military records at the PRO (or is that TNA nowadays?) to see if he can find any further information. As I explained, my interest is in trying to track this S28+ genetic mutation which began sometime in the region of the La Téne Celtic culture and which, at least according to my y-Chromosome testing, made its way to Nairnshire. The suggestion it could have been transmitted through Norman knights or whatever (including the Lairds of Lochloy) is a promising lead. Bob Hay at home at www.bobhay.net On Nov 24, 2007 3:19 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > In a message dated 23/11/2007 07:05:42 GMT Standard Time, > [email protected] > writes: > > (4) Was it customary to get a woman pregnant before agreeing to marry > her, > the rationale being that no one wanted to commit to a barren marriage? > My > great-great-grandparents had their first child (according to the OPR) > "conceived in ante-nuptial fornication" - were they just caught out or > was > this more or less OK? > > > > Hi Bob > > There may be an element of truth in this but it has to be remembered the > Kirk Session was extremely concerned with the morals of its Parishioners > and > there was also the question of 'consigning pledges' when Banns were being > proclaimed. If a child was produced earlier than expected after the > marriage took > place then the pledge would be forfeited and, I believe, used for the > benefit > of the poor in the Parish. > > Ian A C Scott > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi everyone. I've been trying to get additional information on what Libindx NM150773 is telling me. a) It shows me that a James Innes was born 9 Apr.1854 in Kirkmichael, Banff. b) The parents were John Innes in Fodderletter and Margaret MCIntosh Tomintoul. c) Libindx indicates that James baptism was recorded in MF A Km2 which I believe to be RC. It would be nice to find out who this John Innes was and if he and Margaret McIntosh had additional children. I searched the IGI and checked ScotlandsPeople but came up empty. Any help would be appreciated. William

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: maxinc159 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.mor.general/2289.2.1.2.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: My ggggrandfather William Rowlston, his wife Eliza Rowlston and his three children also came out from Derbyshire on the ship Carrier Dove. I was wondering if perhaps there might be some reference of them in the diary of Charles Bregazzi. Maxinc Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

In a message dated 11/23/2007 12:25:23 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Biologically he is the father (well somebody had to be) but other than by absence he has had no influence on my family or on me. I see your point Russell. I have a similar situation in my family with illigitimacy, as most people will also find, but we must remember that the father's genes are included in the forming of your family tree. Unfortunately the child usually has no siblings that we know of because the father usually moved on. In my case the girlfriend died just after the birth and the wee fellow was raised by grandma, as was often the case. Sometimes they were brought up with 'brothers and sisters' who were in fact aunts and uncles. Mine was acknowledged as a grandson. It will be interesting to read what other list members think of the situation. Sheila. Southport.

That sounds interesting but I am afraid I only have access to the OPR on Scotlandspeople and I have not seen any "mort cloth pages" interspersed. In fact, I am so inexperienced in Scottish genealogy I do not really know what the death and burial practices were or, for that matter, what the customs were regarding birth, death and marriage. (1) What was a "mort cloth" and "bell"? I presume they were fees paid for services. And these did not necessarily mean the burial was recorded, right? You had to pay for that too? (2) What was the "naming" convention - that is, was the eldest son named after the paternal grandfather, second son after maternal grandfather, first daughter after maternal grandmother etc...? (3) Were children who died in infancy "commemorated" by naming the next child of the same sex "after" it? (4) Was it customary to get a woman pregnant before agreeing to marry her, the rationale being that no one wanted to commit to a barren marriage? My great-great-grandparents had their first child (according to the OPR) "conceived in ante-nuptial fornication" - were they just caught out or was this more or less OK? All this, as I have posted here before, is to do with trying to track down my ancestor George Hay who married Janet Watson in Nairn on 17 September 1777. I can document him from here down to me, but I cannot find his dates of birth or death. He was a "pensioner" according to the marriage record, while the witnesses at the baptisms of his children were all Watsons from neighbouring farms at Howford, Kildrummie and Bognafuaran , so he might not have been native to the parish. In response to my first post on this I received some excellent leads, including the suggestion that George Hay was one of the many, many (impoverished) descendants of the Hays of Lochloy. Since I am interested in finding possible scenarios as to how my genetic mutation, S28+, might have made its way to northern Scotland, and the Lairds of Lochloy were Normans, this is an especially interesting suggestion. However, it is difficult at this distance to piece together the history of that house, especially since it is now long extinct. One source suggested to me has been George Bain's "A History of Nairnshire", but there is only one copy in Australia, in Western Australia and I am in Canberra! I have ordered a copy at great expense from a rare book dealer... who said ancestors were cheap! Bob Hay at home at www.bobhay.net On Nov 23, 2007 2:13 PM, Goldie & Lido Doratti <[email protected]> wrote: > It's been my experience that some (ahem, SOME!) of the OPR's have a mort > cloth page interspersed with the births, banns, et all. While I won't > suggest they are ALL there, it is helpful that some are. One of the films > I > viewed on the Speymouth area was very nice and included stories of the > diseases prevalent at the time and the aftermath associated with Culloden. > I > found myself reading stories, and got off track looking for ancestors!! > Some just have the "odd" mention of the 'bell' or 'mort cloth' payments, > and > this is also discourageing as you don't know who died you just get the > info > that so-and-so paid ---- for the 'cloth out of the parish'. > BUT if you have access to the OPR's do go thru them and see......you might > just get lucky. Goldie > - >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: derynflanigan Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.mor.general/2311.1.1.1.3.1.2.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: After a fair bit of confusion, I came to the same conclusion about Forfar being the county, rather than the town. Never mind; I've learnt all sorts of stuff I didn't know before, thanks to all of you who've posted...that's what makes tracing family trees so addictive. It's a pity they don't do genealogy in schools, as it's a great way to learn history and geography in their context, rather than just as dry facts. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This info would be great.......I am interested in the Durinish parish at present, time frame 1800+. Thanks, Goldie ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [MORAY] Morayshire and Nairnshire films at local FHC > > In a message dated 23/11/2007 13:22:28 GMT Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > I and my partner have Campbell family and if you ever get a chance to get > to > Elgin, the Moray council has one of the best centres I have seen > anywhere. > My of this is also online, I will track down the url for you. > > Hugh > > > Hugh J. Preacher > > > > The website address is _http://www.moray.org/LocalHeritage/_ > (http://www.moray.org/LocalHeritage/) > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Listers I wonder if any of the Listers would have William & Elizabeth SIM of Elgin on their family tree or could give me any further info about them. They are shown on the 1851 census at Whiterashes, Elgin, Morayshire. William SIM age 74, born Elgin abt 1777, occupation Farmer of 72 acres and Wife Elizabeth SIM age 63 also Granddaughter/Grandson ??? Ann CAMPBELL age 3, born Elgin. I anyone can help with a marriage or children for this couple I would be very grateful. regards Lynne Price Australia.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: derynflanigan Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.mor.general/2311.1.1.1.3.1.2.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Some good news. A friend of mine has just found Janet's death on Scotland's People, and it lists her parents as 'Charles Innes, farmer (REPUTED father), deceased, and Isabella Cruickshank, deceased,'so the mystery has been solved! She's also found another illegitimate grandchild, so I'm going to be kept very busy, I think. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: gbell152 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.mor.general/2311.1.1.1.3.1.2.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I suspect that a birthplace given in the 1851 Census as "Forfar, Dundee" means that the individual was from "Dundee, in the County of Forfar". Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: derynflanigan Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.mor.general/2311.1.1.1.3.1.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Yes, the change of county names is a bit of a minefield! It leads to some strange places of birth in the IGI database, as they've been copied out willy-nilly. Even the English places can be messed up. I've already come across the problem with confusing the towns and counties: Janet's husband William M(a)cGregor was born in 'Forfar, Dundee,' according to the 1851 census, not 'Forfar, Angus,' which muddled me no end, and that's when I threw up my hands and went to look at the Genuki site! Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Hi Anne Thanks very much for checking the scotlandspeople index for me for the births of John & Elizabeth WINKS. It is very much appreciated. Regards Lynne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Burgess" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 5:25 AM Subject: Re: [MORAY] WINKS in St Andrew > > --- Lynne Price <[email protected]> wrote: > > I am wondering if some kind person would have access > > to the Parish Registers for St Andrew and could look > > for the births and parents of John WINK possibly > > born about 1793 and Elizabeth WINK born about 1791. > > The index at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk lists no > baptisms of Winks in St Andrews-Lhanbryd 1791-1793. As > this is the most complete index to the Church of > Scotland parish registers, it looks as if these > baptisms were not recorded. > > Anne > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >