In a message dated 15/01/2008 21:36:51 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: . (will) 28 April 1835 - this date was the last entry on the previous will. The paragraph preceding the beginning of Charlotte McKenzie Donald's will. Also possible the same as 4a-b below. I have limited experience of reading old wills but from what I have seen it was normal practice to continue to fill pages and one can find the start, even just the date, of a new entry at the bottom of a page. I believe this is the start of the record of Charlottes will being registered. 2. (will) 17 May 1834 - date the will was written Yes 3. (will) 9 May 1835 - ????????? Start of another record 4a-b. (test) 28 Apr 1835 - this begins the testament for Charlotte McKenzie and is the date the writer, Alexander Brown provided the entry to the Court Yes 5 (test) 23 May 1834 - date of death Rev James Donald or....is this the date Charlotte died? Charlotte's date of death. The reference to Rev James Donald indicates she was his widow. Relict of is used to indicate their spouse had died previously 6 (test) 27 Apr 1835 - date the inventory was totaled ie. as of date Yes 7 (test) 20 May 1834 (assume "last" means previous year?) date the will was executed Date will was written and signed. 8 (test) 23 May 1834 - date of death of Charlotte McKenzie Donald (same date as James Donald - no. 5 above) Date of death for Charlotte. Not to do with death of James Donald 9 (test) 27 Apr 1835 - date Alexander Brown depones the death date of Charlotte McKenzie ie date sworn under oath No, this is identifying her will which was signed on 20 May 1834 10 (test) 4 May 1835 - date inventories received and stamped This is an acknowledgement of payment of Stamp Duties for several estates and is not particular to Charlotte's estate although hers is mentioned. 11 (test) 4 May 183? (probably 1835) date the 4 inventories were received - one of which was Charlotte McKenzie This is probably the start of another record. I also have another question... Why is the numbering different on the testament? For example, the first page shows 450 at the top left but 453 on the bottom left. Why wouldn't page 450 always be 450? Or...were three pages inserted in the whole document at some point and all the subsequent pages had to be renumbered? Seems strange but it may just have been an error in the original numbering. These would be bound books and not readily able to have pges inserted unless the were left loose. Ian A C Scott

Sheila, I am researching my 3x greatgrandfather, Charles STUART, born in 1806 in "Sutherlandshire," according to his obit. He died in 1878 in New Brunswick, Canada, arriving there as a young boy of 10 to live with his uncle, John STUART. John STUART was born in 1783 in "Morayshire," according to land grant applications filed in Chatham, New Brunswick, and lived with an unmarried sister, May or Mary. I have no record of who Charles' parents were, what parish they belonged to in Scotland. At one point I was told that there were not many Stuarts in Sutherlandshire. I have been unable to find the ship which might have carried either STUART to NB or any further information on their family. Can you make any connections perhaps? Susan Morro Bay, California -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 9:29 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MORAY] John STEWART - Siblings? In a message dated 1/11/2008 16:22:07 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Last night I joined (on-line) the Aberdeen & N. Scotland FHS and Good for you! It is wise to join a couple of societies. I am a member of Lothians (used to be Midlothian but now takes in East and West Lothian) and Fife which is an excellent branch. I am also into a few of the Rootsweb lists. My STEWARTS and MacDONALDs were from Banffshire, Morayshire and Sutherland. Some filtered south to Edinburgh which was my home town many moons ago! Sheila. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

If you open in Internet Explorer and it is too small to read, just go down to the bottom right hand corner of the screen and increase size from 100% to 150% or more if necessary. Richard

Mark, That is exciting news. I have been working towards consolidating all the information Bain gives on the Hays of Lochloy and Park plus any other information I have scrounged from other old books on line. Should I continue or will this only duplicate some of your work? As I have told you off-List I am interested not so much in following up any personal ancestry as I am in seeing if the Norman knight and his descendants might have been the means whereby the genetic mutation S28 came to Nairnshire and hence to my Hay forefathers and ultimately to me. The spread of this genetic mutation, found among Continental Celts and thought to be centred on the La Tène culture (haplogroup R1b1c10), is generally regarded as an "invader gene" in Britain and attributed to the Norse Vikings in northern Scotland, usually raiders from Orkney. However, the Normans could well be an alternative source and, because many of those old houses have known pedigrees, as "carriers" of the gene they have the potential to be better documented than the Vikings. It is just a hypothesis but a promising one in that, barring NPEs, some man named Hay must have brought this gene to Nairnshire/Morayshire sometime in the last thousand years or so or I would not be the proud possessor of a latter-day copy of it! Bob. On Jan 15, 2008 10:55 PM, Mark Sutherland-Fisher < [email protected]> wrote: > Bob/Sherry et all, > Although the people and history of Moray has been completely interrelated > with that of Nairnshire for centuries, can I remind you all that there is > a > Strathnairn list which deals more specifically with Nairnshire. > > Coming back to Bob and Bain,I didn't realise it was now online as well but > having borrowed a cousin's copy for 2 years, there is nothing to beat the > hard copy. It is from my experience the most complete and comprehensive > account of our Nairnshire ancestry and I think anyone with Moray ancestry > would be hard pressed not to also have Nairnshire ancestry. > > Regarding the Hays of Lochloy,not only does Bain give quite some detail > about this ancient family and its ups and downs, but as I may have > mentioned > before, my distant cousin Sarah Brodie of Lethen and I have been working > on > all the inter-related families of Ardclach and Auldearn for around 2 years > now and the Hays feature extensively among them all. If I get time I will > try and put some detail on to the list, but time is a rare commodity these > days. Sarah has transcribed much of the 17th and 18th century OPR for both > parishes and she has the advantage of owning all the Lethen estate papers > which I uncovered at NAS a year ago and slowly but surely she is working > her > way trhough them. They include rent accounts from the mid 1600s with some > incredible detail. > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Bob Hay > Sent: 15 January 2008 02:42 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [MORAY] A History of Nairnshire by George Bain 1893 > > Thank you, Sherry: your kind words make me feel a little less stupid. I > did > extensive searches but found nothing... but even then I was guzumped! > Personally, I think it is only by reading books and other documents such > as > Bain or The Statistical Accounts of Scotland etc., that we actually > construct a family history. The pursuit of names and vital dates alone > only > constructs a pedigree and that is useless unless it leads you into more > information:- eg, you are heir to a ruined castle in Spain or are entitled > to membership of a tribe or, in this case, what was happening around your > ancestors in the aftermath of Culloden... That is all those rather funny > "begats" in the bible achieved - established legitimacy of later > characters > but they don't not tell you anything about the men with unbelievable > life-spans. For me, it is knowing where and when my ancestors were and > what > was happening in their lifetimes, how they lived, what their problems > might > have been, which makes my family history personally relevant to me and > perhaps of interest to others. Bain certainly filled me in on heaps of > local > history which now allows me to perhaps comprehend in some limited way what > life was like for those distant forebears. I don't begrudge spending the > money - he was worth every penny, but I would have liked it even better - > as > you suggest - for free.... :-) > > Bob > > On Jan 15, 2008 12:06 PM, Sherry Williamson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Had I known this was already on line it would have saved me hours of > > work > > and quite a few dollars! > > > > Do not be disheartened, I do not think it has been up for too long. I > > think > > this site now has three or four books relating Nairn / Moray. > > > > This is a good site if some of your Scots wandered into > > Canada............. > > > > http://www.ourroots.ca/e/ > > > > My Nairn natives settled in Dumfries, Waterloo (Halton) Ontario in 1832 > > and > > my Ayr folks into Oneida, Haldimand, Ontario in 1842. This site had > early > > texts relating to both these locations. It was neat to get an insight > > into > > some of what my early family dealt with.........free of charge! > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > Bob Hay > at home at > www.bobhay.net > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > -- Bob Hay at home at www.bobhay.net

> P.S. to Anne Burgess...you were so very helpful in finding > their > children...care to have a go at this??? I've tried, but it opens too small in Internet Explorer, and I haven't worked out either how to save it, or to open it in Paint Shop Pro so that I can zoom in and see it properly. Anne

There is also a great program called 'Text Aloud' that will vocally read the book to you, check it out Bev Hay Bob Hay wrote: >Thank you, Sherry: your kind words make me feel a little less stupid. I did >extensive searches but found nothing... but even then I was guzumped! >Personally, I think it is only by reading books and other documents such as >Bain or The Statistical Accounts of Scotland etc., that we actually >construct a family history. The pursuit of names and vital dates alone only >constructs a pedigree and that is useless unless it leads you into more >information:- eg, you are heir to a ruined castle in Spain or are entitled >to membership of a tribe or, in this case, what was happening around your >ancestors in the aftermath of Culloden... That is all those rather funny >"begats" in the bible achieved - established legitimacy of later characters >but they don't not tell you anything about the men with unbelievable >life-spans. For me, it is knowing where and when my ancestors were and what >was happening in their lifetimes, how they lived, what their problems might >have been, which makes my family history personally relevant to me and >perhaps of interest to others. Bain certainly filled me in on heaps of local >history which now allows me to perhaps comprehend in some limited way what >life was like for those distant forebears. I don't begrudge spending the >money - he was worth every penny, but I would have liked it even better - as >you suggest - for free.... :-) > >Bob > >On Jan 15, 2008 12:06 PM, Sherry Williamson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >>>Had I known this was already on line it would have saved me hours of >>> >>> >>work >>and quite a few dollars! >> >>Do not be disheartened, I do not think it has been up for too long. I >>think >>this site now has three or four books relating Nairn / Moray. >> >>This is a good site if some of your Scots wandered into >>Canada............. >> >>http://www.ourroots.ca/e/ >> >>My Nairn natives settled in Dumfries, Waterloo (Halton) Ontario in 1832 >>and >>my Ayr folks into Oneida, Haldimand, Ontario in 1842. This site had early >>texts relating to both these locations. It was neat to get an insight >>into >>some of what my early family dealt with.........free of charge! >> >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >>in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > > > > >

Goldie & Lido Doratti wrote: >I have a Mgrt Innes b Rathven but not on the OPR's, who married 7 Jul 1849 >to Alexander Gordon in Bellie. I believe Alexr to have been married before >and his wife had died. On the '51 census they show up at Auchinhalrig, >Bellie with an Alexr Gordon age 6, Scholar. The birth info for Alexr Sr on >all records including his death, is Golspie, Sutherland. But I have never >found him there. But here's a connection that's odd. On the '41 I think >Mgrt shows up at Fochabers, Bellie working for Wm Innes, shoemaker and his >wife Jane Hay, and their children. Would the Bellie info show any >information on the Gordon family or mention the death of his first wife? I >believe her to be Isobella Anderson who married Alexr Gordon 20 Dec 1834, >Drainie. > Auchinhalrig lay in that part of Bellie which, until 1891, belonged to Banffshire. It also lay in the area of the rather strange parish of Enzie, which in some ways, seems to have been a bit like Brigadoon, fading into and out of existence during the century between 1835 (when it started to keep its own Registers of Baptism and Marriage) and 1936, when it ceased being a separate Registration District for births, marriages and deaths. I have tried to document the various twists and turns of the story, and their possible effect on sources important for genealogy, on the Banffshire pages of GENUKI, which you will find at: http://www.abdnet.co.uk/genuki/BAN/index.html Look at the articles for Bellie, Enzie and Rathven, and within these, read what it says under the headings "Census", "Historical Geography" and "Names, Geographical". You may also find the article at: http://www.abdnet.co.uk/genuki/BAN/countyandparish.html which illustrates some of the complications on the basis of someone who might have lived in Auchenhalrig. Gavin Bell

Hi Anyone have any suggestions what I can try next? I have two blocks which I can't find on Scotland's People or Elgin Registrars Office despite having dates I think are reliable. James Geddes Symon b 17 March 1903 (Navy Record of Service Document, 1939-44 and death records, 1974) Mother was Margaret Symon Would he have to supply a birth certificate to the navy in 1939? Mary Thomson (nee Lobban) b c1800, Burghnamary, Boharm (Bellie Parish Poor Relief Records, 1866-77 and census 1841-71) m 29 Jan 1821 to George Thomson in Bellie (Banns) d 2 Oct 1877 (Bellie Parish Poor Relief Records, 1866-77) I have read the Boharm OPR between 1795-1805 and searched the death records between 1872-81 on SP and the Registrars. Also any suggestions how I can get further back than: James Thomson and Mary Gordon b unknown - outside Bellie m 21 Nov 1768 in Bellie (banns) I am wondering if they came to Spey Bay for the start of the Spey Fishery Company in 1765 (Gordon Castle Records). Does anyone know if these records list of employees, pay records or anything like that? Should I plan a trip to Edinburgh sometime? Thanks in advance for any suggestions. -- Maggie "The pursuit of Truth and Beauty is a sphere of activity in which we are permitted to remain children all our lives." Albert Einstein

I'm so sorry there is a problem Anne. I used PaintShop Pro to edit and save the document. You should be able to right click, then select SAVE IMAGE AS (assuming Internet Explorer has the same wording - I use Firefox) and save it wherever you want, then open your PaintShop Pro program and open the documents you saved. They are all jpg files. Did you try this? Barbara Anne Burgess wrote: >> P.S. to Anne Burgess...you were so very helpful in finding >> their >> children...care to have a go at this??? >> > > I've tried, but it opens too small in Internet Explorer, and I > haven't worked out either how to save it, or to open it in Paint > Shop Pro so that I can zoom in and see it properly. > > Anne > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Howard, Following on my reply to your question, I have logged into the Book of the Thanes of Cawdor and did a search for "Wester Geddes". There were references to Easter and Meikle Geddes but no mention of Wester Geddes. My knowledge of the geography of the region is poor so I am not aware of other names by which the place might have been known. Happy hunting... Bob. On Jan 15, 2008 5:01 AM, Howard Geddes < [email protected]> wrote: > Hi Bob, Those are very very interesting URLs. I'm on dial-up so before > downloading massive heaps, do you know if there is anything about the > place > name Wester Geddes in the book of Cawdor papers? > > I was able to access Nairn Library's copy of Bain last year in the course > of > my research into the origins of the GEDDES surname, in particular the > Lands > Of Geddes. > > Bain mentions that a Wester Geddes that appears in various documents, but > I > haven't been able to find a single other reference anywhere - despite > Meikle > Geddes and Easter Geddes still existing today. After a deal of research on > the ROSEs, BISSETs, de BOSCO and RAITs, as well as CALDERs, I believe that > there is good reason to conclude that Cawdor Castle was built on Wester > Geddes when the family moved out of Nairn (and hence the name > disappeared). > Having talked to the trustees at Cawdor, I was intending to study the > family > papers now at the NAS but we're talking about 13th/14th Century material > and > I was not confident of being able to interpret the writing. > > It would be great to hear if there any references in the book. > > Howard Geddes > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > -- Bob Hay at home at www.bobhay.net

I am only a short distance from the National Library here in Canberra but that didn't help me much! It is great that Bain has been digitized and is on line. However, many people find it hard to read on a computer screen. I would suggest that if anyone wanted to actually use the real book as their source, and if - as you will probably have to do, read it within the confines of the Library - that you first look at the "Flip Book" on-line version, search for the names and places which interest you, note down the page numbers and then go to the library with your pad and pencil at the ready. That being said, Bain is a good read and reading him for Scottish history rather than detailed family history is to be recommended as well. The URL again, for anyone who missed it, is http://www.archive.org/details/historyofnairnsh00bainuoft Bob. On Jan 15, 2008 4:25 PM, Judy Acaster <[email protected]> wrote: > Thank you Bob, for directing us to this book and to its location in > Australia. I live within walking distance of the library in question and > have already requested it! > > Cheers!..........Judy. Perth. W.Australia > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 10 > > Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:42:11 +1100 > > From: "Bob Hay" <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [MORAY] A History of Nairnshire by George Bain 1893 > > To: [email protected] > > Message-ID: > > <[email protected] > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message > -- Bob Hay at home at www.bobhay.net

I have been trying to figure out the dates on my GGGgrandmothers will and testament and need some help from someone knowledgeable in interpretation of a will from the early 1830's. I have uploaded the 2 page will and listed below is the link. Have also uploaded the 6 page testament - links below. I have numbered every place in each of the two documents where dates appear (excluding inventory items). Listed below are the corresponding numbers with "my explanation" of what that date means. I am looking for input...can you confirm my explanation or correct me. I really appreciate any help you can provide and thank you for your input and expertise. As a side note, you may have to download into your own image program if the image is too small for you to read. Will - document pages 68 and 69 http://home.windstream.net/smith27/Will/Will68-69.jpg Testament document pages 450 through 455 http://home.windstream.net/smith27/Will/Test450-451.jpg http://home.windstream.net/smith27/Will/Test452-453.jpg http://home.windstream.net/smith27/Will/Test454-455.jpg My explanation of what each date means: 1. (will) 28 April 1835 - this date was the last entry on the previous will. The paragraph preceding the beginning of Charlotte McKenzie Donald's will. Also possible the same as 4a-b below. 2. (will) 17 May 1834 - date the will was written 3. (will) 9 May 1835 - ????????? 4a-b. (test) 28 Apr 1835 - this begins the testament for Charlotte McKenzie and is the date the writer, Alexander Brown, provided the inventory to the court 5 (test) 23 May 1834 - date of death Rev James Donald or....is this the date Charlotte died? 6 (test) 27 Apr 1835 - date the inventory was totaled ie. as of date 7 (test) 20 May 1834 (assume "last" means previous year?) date the will was executed 8 (test) 23 May 1834 - date of death of Charlotte McKenzie Donald (same date as James Donald - no. 5 above) 9 (test) 27 Apr 1835 - date Alexander Brown depones the death date of Charlotte McKenzie ie date sworn under oath 10 (test) 4 May 1835 - date inventories received and stamped 11 (test) 4 May 183? (probably 1835) date the 4 inventories were received - one of which was Charlotte McKenzie I also have another question... Why is the numbering different on the testament? For example, the first page shows 450 at the top left but 453 on the bottom left. Why wouldn't page 450 always be 450? Or...were three pages inserted in the whole document at some point and all the subsequent pages had to be renumbered? Thank you so much for any help you can provide. Barbara P.S. to Anne Burgess...you were so very helpful in finding their children...care to have a go at this???

In a message dated 15/01/2008 18:00:05 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I have a Mgrt Innes b Rathven but not on the OPR's, who married 7 Jul 1849 to Alexander Gordon in Bellie. The entry in the OPR shows the Banns were proclaimed on 15/6/1849 and they confirm the marriage did take place on 7/7/1849. A look at the 1851 Census on Ancestry.co.uk shows them at Auchinhalrig and William is aged 41 while Margaret is aged 29. They have a son Alexander born in 1845 shown as having been born in Bellie but I have searched the OPR for his baptism without success. For this I tried using the surname Gordon and also Innes in case he was Margaret's child. It also occurred to me that if Alexander had been married previously his wife may have died in or shortly after childbirth so I had a look at the list of burials on the OPR and found a Mary Garden Gordon who was buried on 24/4/1844 and also a Janet Hay who was buried on 14/3/1845. Mary died at Nether Dallachie and Janet at Auchinhalrig I believe Alexr to have been married before and his wife had died. On the '51 census they show up at Auchinhalrig, Bellie with an Alexr Gordon age 6, Scholar. The birth info for Alexr Sr on all records including his death, is Golspie, Sutherland. The Census I looked at confirmed Alexander Sr was born in Golspie. But here's a connection that's odd. On the '41 I think Mgrt shows up at Fochabers, Bellie working for Wm Innes, shoemaker and his wife Jane Hay, and their children. Would the Bellie info show any information on the Gordon family or mention the death of his first wife? Only as I have mentioned above. The OPR entries are basic recording only that a child was baptised and whether or not it was 'Natural' or 'Lawful' and any witnesses along with the parents names. Marriages only mention the parties involved and where deaths are recorded they are normally only one line notes of a burial which may or may not include the age of the deceased and their residence. I believe her to be Isobella Anderson who married Alexr Gordon 20 Dec 1834, Drainie. I looked at the IGI for the children of Alexander Gordon and Isabella and this revealed that all their children were born in Drainie whereas the 1851 Census shows Alexander Jr was born in Bellie. In addition the Drainie Births show that the Alexander born to Alexander and Isobella was born late 1846 which would not match a census age of 6 in early 1951. This may help a little but it would be more satisfactory if a birth entry could be found in the OPR for the six year old in the 1851 census or if it could be confirmed whose child he was. I have instances where a widow with children remarrying results in the children 'adopting' the new husband's surname. Ian

Ian, Thanks for the very prompt response and the offer of look-up help in the Bellie OPRs. I think I have the jamieson line identified back to the marriage of John JAMIESON and Mary GRAY on 19.3.1796. I have also got quite a number of JAMIESON events (Bs or Ms) prior to that date in Bellie but have so far not managed to connect any of them to the John JAMIESON above. There is too a stone in Bellie graveyard (No 263 in the MI booklet) which is inscribed on both sides. The more modern side (with dates from 1908 onwards) is included in the Jamieson family network I have identified but the other,older side of the stone has no direct connection to the people on the newer side...but there must be one. It shows a Georg JAMIESON d. 1780,wife Katharine INNES and children Alex and Hellen who died respectively 1780,82 and 89, with the stone erected by James GEDDES.I think he must have been married to a Jamieson woman. I would like to work out the connection between the two sides of the stone and any help on that would be much appreciated. Thanks too for the suggestion that I look at the Local Heritage site. I will do that. Thanks too to Anne Burgess for suggesting that the Heritage search can be narrowed by using Bogmuir/moor . Tom C. Graham > Hi Tom > > The Bellie OPRs have around 60 Births/Christenings listed from about 1709 > up > to 1855 and around 20 Marriages/Banns from about 1723 up to 1855. These > can > all be searched on the IGI but if you have specific items you wish > confirmed I > have the OPR film for Bellie covering the full period and will check for > you. > > Ian A C Scott > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content > by the SmallWorld MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > --------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the SmallWorld MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ---------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for this Ian. I think this Alex jr. must have died. I have the death certs for this family. Adam Innes the father is b Gartly parish 1790, m Mgrt Milne 1811, Cairnie (Adam's mother was from there). This Mgrt died 1828 and is recorded under Mort Cloths in Keith kirk OPR's. I knew they had a daughter Ann b Rathven 1817, and when I pulled the death reg for her it said the informant was Geor Craigen, son. He was illegitimate, and I have found the Craigen family. But there is no record of sister Mgrt anyplace. And I stumbled on her by accident when I pulled Adam's death and found the informant was Alexr. Gordon, son-in-law. I know this is a long roundabout way of doing this, but I wonder what was the drawing card for Adam to leave his family who by then were living in Keith area, to Rathven......and then why did Mgrt go to Bellie, what drew her there? I searched high and low for the Alexander Gordon, son, and never found him. Which leads me to the next thing....why is it that IF he was the son of Mgrt Innes, he isn't mentioned on the marker in Keith Cemy? Ann is on it, Geor Craigen is on it, as is Alexander Gordon. I dunno, it's a puzzlement. Then I wondered if the OPR's for Bellie said anything more. It's one film I should see, but haven't. With thanks, Goldie ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [MORAY] Jamiesons,etc, in Bellie parish > In a message dated 15/01/2008 18:00:05 GMT Standard Time, > [email protected] > writes: > > I have a Mgrt Innes b Rathven but not on the OPR's, who married 7 Jul > 1849 > to Alexander Gordon in Bellie. > The entry in the OPR shows the Banns were proclaimed on 15/6/1849 and they > confirm the marriage did take place on 7/7/1849. A look at the 1851 Census > on > Ancestry.co.uk shows them at Auchinhalrig and William is aged 41 while > Margaret is aged 29. They have a son Alexander born in 1845 shown as > having been > born in Bellie but I have searched the OPR for his baptism without > success. For > this I tried using the surname Gordon and also Innes in case he was > Margaret's child. It also occurred to me that if Alexander had been > married previously > his wife may have died in or shortly after childbirth so I had a look at > the > list of burials on the OPR and found a Mary Garden Gordon who was buried > on > 24/4/1844 and also a Janet Hay who was buried on 14/3/1845. Mary died at > Nether Dallachie and Janet at Auchinhalrig > > I believe Alexr to have been married before > and his wife had died. On the '51 census they show up at Auchinhalrig, > Bellie with an Alexr Gordon age 6, Scholar. The birth info for Alexr Sr > on > all records including his death, is Golspie, Sutherland. > The Census I looked at confirmed Alexander Sr was born in Golspie. > > But here's a connection that's odd. On the '41 I think > Mgrt shows up at Fochabers, Bellie working for Wm Innes, shoemaker and > his > wife Jane Hay, and their children. Would the Bellie info show any > information on the Gordon family or mention the death of his first wife? > Only as I have mentioned above. The OPR entries are basic recording only > that a child was baptised and whether or not it was 'Natural' or 'Lawful' > and > any witnesses along with the parents names. Marriages only mention the > parties > involved and where deaths are recorded they are normally only one line > notes > of a burial which may or may not include the age of the deceased and > their > residence. > > > I believe her to be Isobella Anderson who married Alexr Gordon 20 Dec > 1834, > Drainie. > I looked at the IGI for the children of Alexander Gordon and Isabella and > this revealed that all their children were born in Drainie whereas the > 1851 > Census shows Alexander Jr was born in Bellie. In addition the Drainie > Births > show that the Alexander born to Alexander and Isobella was born late 1846 > which > would not match a census age of 6 in early 1951. > > This may help a little but it would be more satisfactory if a birth entry > could be found in the OPR for the six year old in the 1851 census or if > it > could be confirmed whose child he was. I have instances where a widow with > children remarrying results in the children 'adopting' the new husband's > surname. > > Ian > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you, Sherry: your kind words make me feel a little less stupid. I did extensive searches but found nothing... but even then I was guzumped! Personally, I think it is only by reading books and other documents such as Bain or The Statistical Accounts of Scotland etc., that we actually construct a family history. The pursuit of names and vital dates alone only constructs a pedigree and that is useless unless it leads you into more information:- eg, you are heir to a ruined castle in Spain or are entitled to membership of a tribe or, in this case, what was happening around your ancestors in the aftermath of Culloden... That is all those rather funny "begats" in the bible achieved - established legitimacy of later characters but they don't not tell you anything about the men with unbelievable life-spans. For me, it is knowing where and when my ancestors were and what was happening in their lifetimes, how they lived, what their problems might have been, which makes my family history personally relevant to me and perhaps of interest to others. Bain certainly filled me in on heaps of local history which now allows me to perhaps comprehend in some limited way what life was like for those distant forebears. I don't begrudge spending the money - he was worth every penny, but I would have liked it even better - as you suggest - for free.... :-) Bob On Jan 15, 2008 12:06 PM, Sherry Williamson <[email protected]> wrote: > > Had I known this was already on line it would have saved me hours of > work > and quite a few dollars! > > Do not be disheartened, I do not think it has been up for too long. I > think > this site now has three or four books relating Nairn / Moray. > > This is a good site if some of your Scots wandered into > Canada............. > > http://www.ourroots.ca/e/ > > My Nairn natives settled in Dumfries, Waterloo (Halton) Ontario in 1832 > and > my Ayr folks into Oneida, Haldimand, Ontario in 1842. This site had early > texts relating to both these locations. It was neat to get an insight > into > some of what my early family dealt with.........free of charge! > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > -- Bob Hay at home at www.bobhay.net

Thank you Bob, for directing us to this book and to its location in Australia. I live within walking distance of the library in question and have already requested it! Cheers!..........Judy. Perth. W.Australia ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:42:11 +1100 > From: "Bob Hay" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [MORAY] A History of Nairnshire by George Bain 1893 > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >

Bob/Sherry et all, Although the people and history of Moray has been completely interrelated with that of Nairnshire for centuries, can I remind you all that there is a Strathnairn list which deals more specifically with Nairnshire. Coming back to Bob and Bain,I didn't realise it was now online as well but having borrowed a cousin's copy for 2 years, there is nothing to beat the hard copy. It is from my experience the most complete and comprehensive account of our Nairnshire ancestry and I think anyone with Moray ancestry would be hard pressed not to also have Nairnshire ancestry. Regarding the Hays of Lochloy,not only does Bain give quite some detail about this ancient family and its ups and downs, but as I may have mentioned before, my distant cousin Sarah Brodie of Lethen and I have been working on all the inter-related families of Ardclach and Auldearn for around 2 years now and the Hays feature extensively among them all. If I get time I will try and put some detail on to the list, but time is a rare commodity these days. Sarah has transcribed much of the 17th and 18th century OPR for both parishes and she has the advantage of owning all the Lethen estate papers which I uncovered at NAS a year ago and slowly but surely she is working her way trhough them. They include rent accounts from the mid 1600s with some incredible detail. Mark -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob Hay Sent: 15 January 2008 02:42 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MORAY] A History of Nairnshire by George Bain 1893 Thank you, Sherry: your kind words make me feel a little less stupid. I did extensive searches but found nothing... but even then I was guzumped! Personally, I think it is only by reading books and other documents such as Bain or The Statistical Accounts of Scotland etc., that we actually construct a family history. The pursuit of names and vital dates alone only constructs a pedigree and that is useless unless it leads you into more information:- eg, you are heir to a ruined castle in Spain or are entitled to membership of a tribe or, in this case, what was happening around your ancestors in the aftermath of Culloden... That is all those rather funny "begats" in the bible achieved - established legitimacy of later characters but they don't not tell you anything about the men with unbelievable life-spans. For me, it is knowing where and when my ancestors were and what was happening in their lifetimes, how they lived, what their problems might have been, which makes my family history personally relevant to me and perhaps of interest to others. Bain certainly filled me in on heaps of local history which now allows me to perhaps comprehend in some limited way what life was like for those distant forebears. I don't begrudge spending the money - he was worth every penny, but I would have liked it even better - as you suggest - for free.... :-) Bob On Jan 15, 2008 12:06 PM, Sherry Williamson <[email protected]> wrote: > > Had I known this was already on line it would have saved me hours of > work > and quite a few dollars! > > Do not be disheartened, I do not think it has been up for too long. I > think > this site now has three or four books relating Nairn / Moray. > > This is a good site if some of your Scots wandered into > Canada............. > > http://www.ourroots.ca/e/ > > My Nairn natives settled in Dumfries, Waterloo (Halton) Ontario in 1832 > and > my Ayr folks into Oneida, Haldimand, Ontario in 1842. This site had early > texts relating to both these locations. It was neat to get an insight > into > some of what my early family dealt with.........free of charge! > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > -- Bob Hay at home at www.bobhay.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have a Mgrt Innes b Rathven but not on the OPR's, who married 7 Jul 1849 to Alexander Gordon in Bellie. I believe Alexr to have been married before and his wife had died. On the '51 census they show up at Auchinhalrig, Bellie with an Alexr Gordon age 6, Scholar. The birth info for Alexr Sr on all records including his death, is Golspie, Sutherland. But I have never found him there. But here's a connection that's odd. On the '41 I think Mgrt shows up at Fochabers, Bellie working for Wm Innes, shoemaker and his wife Jane Hay, and their children. Would the Bellie info show any information on the Gordon family or mention the death of his first wife? I believe her to be Isobella Anderson who married Alexr Gordon 20 Dec 1834, Drainie. With thanks for all this. Goldie ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 3:53 AM Subject: Re: [MORAY] Jamiesons,etc, in Bellie parish >H Goldie > > My 3 x GGrandmother was Jean Innes but she was born in Rothes to a William > Innes and Jobina Anderson in 1797 and died in Auchinhalrig, Bellie in > 1861. The > strange thing about these ancestors is that when I searched for children I > found only one child born in 1834 who was named William (after Jean's > father > ?) but he died after 6 months. However, when working backwards from my > parents > I found a death entry for my GG Grandfather who was named Alexander which > gave his parents as William Scott and Jean Innes and his age indicated he > was > born in 1820. William and Jean were married in 1817 in Boharm so this > would > match and, of course, Andrew's father was Alexander thus keeping the > naming > pattern going. I have not been able to find any other children for William > and > Jean between 1820 and 1834 so the question is - were they unfortunate to > have > a number of children who did not survive or did they not have then > baptised > and recorded? The first child Alexander does not appear in the birth > records I > have searched. > > This is the closest connection I have to Innes but there are quite a > number > of others I have traced but on the outer edges of my family tree. There > are > connections with Speymouth, Urquhart, Botriphnie and St Andrews Lhanbryde. > In > other words they are scattered all over the area with dates from about > 1773 > and some still to be confirmed or traced. > > As I said they are on the outer edges of my research and have not been > looked at in any depth. > > Ian > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

H Goldie My 3 x GGrandmother was Jean Innes but she was born in Rothes to a William Innes and Jobina Anderson in 1797 and died in Auchinhalrig, Bellie in 1861. The strange thing about these ancestors is that when I searched for children I found only one child born in 1834 who was named William (after Jean's father ?) but he died after 6 months. However, when working backwards from my parents I found a death entry for my GG Grandfather who was named Alexander which gave his parents as William Scott and Jean Innes and his age indicated he was born in 1820. William and Jean were married in 1817 in Boharm so this would match and, of course, Andrew's father was Alexander thus keeping the naming pattern going. I have not been able to find any other children for William and Jean between 1820 and 1834 so the question is - were they unfortunate to have a number of children who did not survive or did they not have then baptised and recorded? The first child Alexander does not appear in the birth records I have searched. This is the closest connection I have to Innes but there are quite a number of others I have traced but on the outer edges of my family tree. There are connections with Speymouth, Urquhart, Botriphnie and St Andrews Lhanbryde. In other words they are scattered all over the area with dates from about 1773 and some still to be confirmed or traced. As I said they are on the outer edges of my research and have not been looked at in any depth. Ian