You are sooo right. I have found often that by backing off, and going up a different branch of the family tree an occasional fruit drops in my lap a little later! Amazing how many times when I think I will never know, some small little piece will fall into place opening a brand new avenue. Keep the faith! And God bless census takers! Beverly -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Sherry" <[email protected]> > > > I know people die, move etc. But they don't just > > dissapear.....or do they? > > My third great grandfather, James Williamson, b. abt. 1816 in Ayrshire (from > an obit)....His parents were James Williamson and Jean Sillars / Sallers / > Sellers married in 1816 Kilwinning, Ayr. No children registered to the > couple anywhere. > > Although I have a photo of Jean Sillars which was taken in Ayr and have a > general idea of when it was taken (through the photographer's info - John > Brown, Kilmarnock and Troon), she is MIA from all data and her death would > have occurred after statutory registration began. I attribute the lack > census information to the possibility that something happened to her first > husband and she remarried or the census did not survive.....or the family > simply was not counted. I attribute not being able to find her death due to > either lack of knowledge by the informant or the record is also MIA. > > This is just one example of quite a few MIA's in my tree. That being said, > most of my dead-ends occur because my Scots left prior to 1841 census. > > Why could not these folks have forenames like "Nimrod" or "Zelda" > :).........would be so much easier! > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of > the message

> I know people die, move etc. But they don't just > dissapear.....or do they? They certainly disappear from surviving records. There is no consistency in recording of deaths (or to be strictly accurate, recording of burials) before 1855. Some parishes did, some didn't. Even after 1855, folk do disappear - they emigrate or change their names. Even if you've only lost a John Smith who sneaked over the border to England, forget it - English death certificates don't tell you the parents of the deceased. Anne

> I know people die, move etc. But they don't just > dissapear.....or do they? My third great grandfather, James Williamson, b. abt. 1816 in Ayrshire (from an obit)....His parents were James Williamson and Jean Sillars / Sallers / Sellers married in 1816 Kilwinning, Ayr. No children registered to the couple anywhere. Although I have a photo of Jean Sillars which was taken in Ayr and have a general idea of when it was taken (through the photographer's info - John Brown, Kilmarnock and Troon), she is MIA from all data and her death would have occurred after statutory registration began. I attribute the lack census information to the possibility that something happened to her first husband and she remarried or the census did not survive.....or the family simply was not counted. I attribute not being able to find her death due to either lack of knowledge by the informant or the record is also MIA. This is just one example of quite a few MIA's in my tree. That being said, most of my dead-ends occur because my Scots left prior to 1841 census. Why could not these folks have forenames like "Nimrod" or "Zelda" :).........would be so much easier!

Hello List, I also have Russells in my family. Isobel Russell born 1813 in Keith. She is the daughter of James Russell and Isobel Huie. She was married to my to my g-g-grandfather William McPherson. They were the parents of 13 children and spent most of their life in Grange. I am looking to contact any person who shares this family tree. Thank you, Chris

Hello Pearl: I have an Alexander WISEMAN, spouse unknown, for whom I have listed two daughters - Isabella (born about 1788), and Margaret (dob unknown). These were living around Keith and are connected to my MILNE ancestors of Keith, Banff. Any connection to yours? Keith Milne Lumby, BC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pearl Montrose" <[email protected]> To: "MORAY LIST" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 1:18 AM Subject: [MORAY] Russells > Hello List, I have Russell's in my tree but don't have much on them. Ann > Russell married my 3x Gt. G/F Alexander WISEMAN, The marriage register is > missing, but I estimate they married 1800-1804 Urquhart Church. Her > parents were James RUSSELL and Isobel THOMS, Ann was born/bapt 1782, and > died 3/6/1872, which gives her a life span of 90 years after producing 10 > children, which includes 1 set of twins. her death date third of June > (1872, ) I was born second of June 1929, so close day & month. Have > all the chns names and birth/bapts dates if required. Alexander was a > Stone Mason. > Regards. > Pearl M. > >

Hello List, I have Russell's in my tree but don't have much on them. Ann Russell married my 3x Gt. G/F Alexander WISEMAN, The marriage register is missing, but I estimate they married 1800-1804 Urquhart Church. Her parents were James RUSSELL and Isobel THOMS, Ann was born/bapt 1782, and died 3/6/1872, which gives her a life span of 90 years after producing 10 children, which includes 1 set of twins. her death date third of June (1872, ) I was born second of June 1929, so close day & month. Have all the chns names and birth/bapts dates if required. Alexander was a Stone Mason. Regards. Pearl M.

for this compliment, I thank you Cam...but some of the holes are getting pretty deep and the dirt pile is getting even higher..YOU have NO idea of the Innes's I have amassed doing this tree. Hundreds...of course ALL related, I just have to make the dots meet..then I can connect back to 1160. Goldie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron MCBAIN" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [MORAY] Deaths in Fochabers > > > > Goldie wrote" > > "I know people die, move etc. But they don't just dissapear.....or do > they? Any help with this George in Fochabers or James in Keith would be > appreciated. > Goldie on a rainy Saturday afternoon in Kamloops." > > Actually, sometimes they do just disappear! I have three McBains who just > seem to have disappeared even though they were born in the 1850's and > 1860's in Nova Scotia. James, William and Jessie - further, Thomas and > Christian, two others born in Aberdeen and who went with their parents to > Halifax in 1846 have also fallen from the Earth it seems - so it does not > surprise me that someone born 100 years earlier can dsicappear - atleast > until you find 'em, Goldie! > > Keep searching - if anyone can find them it seems you're one of the best > candidates. > > Cam > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Goldie wrote" "I know people die, move etc. But they don't just dissapear.....or do they? Any help with this George in Fochabers or James in Keith would be appreciated. Goldie on a rainy Saturday afternoon in Kamloops." Actually, sometimes they do just disappear! I have three McBains who just seem to have disappeared even though they were born in the 1850's and 1860's in Nova Scotia. James, William and Jessie - further, Thomas and Christian, two others born in Aberdeen and who went with their parents to Halifax in 1846 have also fallen from the Earth it seems - so it does not surprise me that someone born 100 years earlier can dsicappear - atleast until you find 'em, Goldie! Keep searching - if anyone can find them it seems you're one of the best candidates. Cam

>GEORGE INNES/Elizabeth LAING were married 1807 in Boharm. They >had a daughter Margaret b there in 1808, then Jean b 1809 in Bellie, and >no baptism info for another two; Adam who died 12 Jan 1815 3 days after >his mother Eliz who died 9 Jan 1816. On the Moray Libdex it gives no >dates just this remark "date is for baptism brother of George". Adam is >written on the OPRS as "Adam Innes a child Fochabers". >Then I found this on the Bellie film ~~"Hugh lawful son to George Innes >and Lillias Ross Fochabers was born 21st Oct and baptised the 8th Nov >1817." >I can't turn this family up on the free cen, nor on Scot's People......so >where then, would be the likely place to look for the burial of >George?...supposing he stayed in Fochabers? (Hugh just disappears as >well, ironically) >I know the parish boundaries changed, but they don't show up in >Banffshire either........USA, CAN, or England. >Did people just disappear? I am chasing any Innes with any first ADAM in >it because I am missing two brothers, a James (m Elspet Seivwright had >a son Adam who died, lost James someplace) and now this George...... >It's a gamble I admit, but Adam Innes b 1752 Kirkney, Gartly parish ABD >had 5 sons.....George 1785, Adam 1790 (line complete), James 1793 >(missing), Alexander 1798 (line complete) and William 1800 (my line, >complete) >I know people die, move etc. But they don't just dissapear.....or do they? >Any help with this George in Fochabers or James in Keith would be >appreciated. >Goldie on a rainy Saturday afternoon in Kamloops. > >End of MORAY Digest, Vol 3, Issue 104 >************************************* Hi Goldie I am interested in George Innes/Elizabeth Laing too, though my interest is proving that Elizabeth was sister to Isabella Laing, which would explain my gggg aunt Margaret Thomson marrying her second cousin John Findlay, from their marriage certificate. George Innes Snr is living alone in Innes Lodge, Bellie on the 1841 census, a Forester. I haven't checked to see if he lived until 1855, which might give a clue to the whereabouts of at least one of his children if you are lucky. If either George's died in Fochabers they'll be buried in Bellie Kirk yard. I can tell you that Jane Findlay nee Innes died in Glasgow, and at least one of her sons went to Canada. I have seen others in my tree uproot and head for Glasgow with siblings, so this *might* be the case with George Innes Jnr. John Findlay was working in Aberchirdar before and after his marriage to Margaret Thomson in Bellie, but they came back to Fochabers between Mary Jane Findlay's birth in 1871 and Alexander Findlay's death in 1882. As to people just disappearing - on Isabella Lobban nee Laing's 1855 death certificate they have an entry 'Robert supposed dead' under Issue ;-( I have tried a few things but haven't been able to turn up this Robert they 'lost' in any sources yet. He has disappeared at the moment ;-) If I read you right you are trying to find George Snr's line back to Gartly, I think this George Innes was born in 1765 in Boharm to James Innes and Margaret Webster, but that is only from an IGI search, it may not be connected your Innes search at all. Hope that adds something for you. -- Maggie "The pursuit of Truth and Beauty is a sphere of activity in which we are permitted to remain children all our lives." Albert Einstein

Hi Maggie and thanks for this info. I did know about the Geo INNES who was a Forrester at Innes Lodge, but discounted him. I will indeed go back and rework it as you are the second person who mentioned him. What 'grabbed me' was the first son born who died just a few days after his mother and given the name of Adam...The George I am looking for had a father named Adam; so that seemed unusual. However one of the other brothers Alexander, had a George Innes, Forgue as a witness to a baptism of his son Alexander in 1827. I thought PERHAPS I was onto something here. Thanks again. Incidentally I have an Ann Innes dau of above Alexander who married Alexr Lobban 1848 Grange....sometimes you just have to shake your head....:) Goldie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maggie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 8:07 AM Subject: [MORAY] George Innes/Elizabeth Laing born 21st Oct and baptised the 8th Nov > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Pearl Hi Pearl Thank you for your information. Unfortunately I have no connection to your Ann. I have two Ann's I am looking for - 1. The first Ann was born in 1810 to Thomas Russell and Ann Douglas in Elgin. Looking for her marriage. She possibly could of married James Henry June 1836 in Elgin. 2. Ann Stephen Russell born 1846 in Lossiemouth to Thomas Russell and Janet Urquhart. Looking for her marriage and or death. She was last with her parents in the 1881 census with her parents Thomas and Jessie and my grandfather James Gall living at 61 Street A, Lossiemouth. Joan ----- Original Message ----- From: > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

There is a Margaret Anderson baptised 11 Sep 1760 at Drainie ( where I see she was married) daughter of John Anderson IGI C11302. The only George Brodie listed at that time on IGI was born 23 June 1758 to John Brodie and Elspet Donaldson IGI C111252. Perhaps you could check these out through Scotlands People. There are also two dates for the birth of William's sister Margaret, one could be an error,as they are both baptised 19 December, one in 1796 and one in 1797. IGI C111354. Dorothy On 04/05/2008, at 5:45 AM, Judith Liddell wrote: > I have a brick wall with George Brodie, father of my g-gr. fa. > William Brodie. On William's christening record, 3 Dec 1792, > George is listed as a farm laborer. He was married to Margaret > Anderson.

GEORGE INNES/Elizabeth LAING were married 1807 in Boharm. They had a daughter Margaret b there in 1808, then Jean b 1809 in Bellie, and no baptism info for another two; Adam who died 12 Jan 1815 3 days after his mother Eliz who died 9 Jan 1816. On the Moray Libdex it gives no dates just this remark "date is for baptism brother of George". Adam is written on the OPRS as "Adam Innes a child Fochabers". Then I found this on the Bellie film ~~"Hugh lawful son to George Innes and Lillias Ross Fochabers was born 21st Oct and baptised the 8th Nov 1817." I can't turn this family up on the free cen, nor on Scot's People......so where then, would be the likely place to look for the burial of George?...supposing he stayed in Fochabers? (Hugh just disappears as well, ironically) I know the parish boundaries changed, but they don't show up in Banffshire either........USA, CAN, or England. Did people just disappear? I am chasing any Innes with any first ADAM in it because I am missing two brothers, a James (m Elspet Seivwright had a son Adam who died, lost James someplace) and now this George...... It's a gamble I admit, but Adam Innes b 1752 Kirkney, Gartly parish ABD had 5 sons.....George 1785, Adam 1790 (line complete), James 1793 (missing), Alexander 1798 (line complete) and William 1800 (my line, complete) I know people die, move etc. But they don't just dissapear.....or do they? Any help with this George in Fochabers or James in Keith would be appreciated. Goldie on a rainy Saturday afternoon in Kamloops.

I have a brick wall with George Brodie, father of my g-gr. fa. William Brodie. On William's christening record, 3 Dec 1792, George is listed as a farm laborer. He was married to Margaret Anderson. I have a copy of the marriage record. According to Libindx, George died 21 Mar 1832 at age 73. His death is recorded in the Parish Register MF A EL4 and it states that he is interred at Elgin Cathedral; however there is no headstone reference. Margaret Anderson Brodie died in 1850 at age 90. Her death is registered in MF A EL4 and it also states that she is interred at Elgin Cathederal. Libindx states that her obituary was published in the Forres Gazette 04 Jun 1850, Page 3, Column 1. When I visited Elgin Cathederal about 6 years ago, there was no reference of George or Margaret on the grave marker of William Brodie. Also interred in that plot are Ann Gunn Brodie, James Brodie -merchant, and Margaret Brodie - widow of John Wilson. I have not been able to find any record of a George Brodie born c. 1759, which would have been the year of birth if his age was given correctly at the time of birth. Any assistance would be appreciate. Judith Brodie Liddell No message is selected Click any message to view it in the reading pane. Attachments, pictures, and links from unknown senders are blocked to help protect your privacy and safety. To show messages automatically when you select a folder, change your reading pane settings 1 message is selected Mark as safe | Mark as unsafe

My grandfather James SIM was born in Burgh School Buildings, Banff on October 10th 1874. Can anyone tell me if this building is still standing. Thank you Margaret Daniels

Have you tried http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp> From: [email protected]> Subject: MORAY Digest, Vol 3, Issue 102> To: [email protected]> Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 01:00:36 -0600> > > > Today's Topics:> > 1. Re: Russell family of Elgin (Joan)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 16:16:47 -0700> From: Joan <[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [MORAY] Russell family of Elgin> To: [email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;> reply-type=original> > Thanks Ian for your information. Have been on both sites and already had > some of the death information, but still can't find their deaths or census > info.> > Joan> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <> Ian A C Scott> >> >> >> >> >> > -------------------------------> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------> > To contact the MORAY list administrator, send an email to> [email protected]> > To post a message to the MORAY mailing list, send an email to [email protected]> > __________________________________________________________> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the> email with no additional text.> > > End of MORAY Digest, Vol 3, Issue 102> ************************************* _________________________________________________________________ Try Chicktionary, a game that tests how many words you can form from the letters given. Find this and more puzzles at Live Search Games! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/207

Hi Anne and Catherine, I too am interested in the Williamson Family History. The Isabella WILLIAMSON who married Alexander Mckenzie is 1st cousins 3 times removed of mine. Our common ancestors are Alexander WILLIAMSON and Elspet SANDISON. Any info on the Williamsons and Taylors would be much appreciated. Thanks, Douglas Taylor > Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 16:38:11 -0700> From: [email protected]w.ca> To: [email protected]> Subject: Re: [MORAY] RootsWeb MORAY-L Re Alexander Mackenzie.html> > RootsWeb: MORAY-L Re: [MORAY] Alexander Mackenzie> Hello Anne,> I have discovered Isobella is the daughter of John Williamson and Jane Alexnader.> You said you have a family tree for this family. I would appreciate the tree.> Thanks so much,> Catherine> > > > > > MORAY-L Archives> > Archiver > MORAY > 2008-04 > 1207604741 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > From: "Anne Burgess" < > > Subject: Re: [MORAY] Alexander Mackenzie > Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 22:45:41 +0100 > References: <[email protected]><[email protected]> > > > > Re: Alexander McKenzie> > his parents were Alexander Mckenzie and Isabella according to > > the 1871> > census.> > They lived in Muri of Lochs 1/2 miles east of Urquhart> > brothers and sister were:> > Alexander 1860> > James> > William> > Jane Ann> > Jessie.> > This is all I know so far.> > That's more like it. If you have the 1871 census, you must > presumably also have ages and birthplaces too?> > The International Genealogical Index (IGI) at > www.familysearch.org tells me that Alexander, son of Alexander > Mackenzie and Isabella Williamson, was born in Urquhart on 5 > September 1859, and that he was one of at least seven children. > The others were> John, born 17 April 1857> James, born 29 January 1862> Jane Anne, born 9 July 1864> Jessie, born 4 April 1867> William Innes, born 14 January 1870> George, born 27 October 1872> Because the census is always taken in the spring, Alexander > would not have had his 1871 (twelfth) birthday by census day, so > he would show up as aged 11. James would be 9, Jane Anne 6, > Jessie just 4, and William 1. Alexander and Isabella were > married in Urquhart on 18 December 1856.> > LIBINDX at http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp tells me > that Alexander died at Lochs Cottage on 2 January 1913 aged 78, > and Isabella on 13 December 1924 aged 88. On the same gravestone > are John, died 14 January 1869 aged 11, Jessie, wife of > Alexander Marr, died 19 January 1915 aged 47, Jane Ann, wife of > John Reid, died 5 March 1936 aged 71, and John Reid died 26 > January 1890 aged 24. There's also a James Mackie, husband of > Jessie Reid or Mackenzie, who was drowned at sea on 19 December > 1922.> > Armed with this information, you can go to Scotland's People > (SP) www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk , invest in a few credits, and > download images of some or all of these death certificates. > Alexander Sr's and Isabella's will tell you the names of their > parents. You can also get images of the census records for other > years there.> > All the surviving family except Alexander Jr were still at Muir > of Lochs in the 1881 census, which shows the birthplace of both > Alexander and Isabella as Rathven. This is the parish whose main > town is Buckie. There's another daughter in 1881, Isabella, aged > 5, so born 1875/6, who is not listed in the IGI above.> > Have a good look at these sources and see what else you can > find - I've only scratched the surface for you.> > If Isabella turns out to be the daughter of John Williamson and > Jane Alexander, get back to me. I happen to have a family tree > of part of that Williamson family.> > Happy hunting!> > Anne > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------> > This thread:> > a.. Re: [MORAY] Alexander Mackenzie by "Anne Burgess" < > > > a.. Re: [MORAY] Alexander Mackenzie by "Jan Knox" < >> > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Never miss another e-mail with Hotmail on your mobile. http://www.livelife.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=343869

RootsWeb: MORAY-L Re: [MORAY] Alexander Mackenzie Hello Anne, I have discovered Isobella is the daughter of John Williamson and Jane Alexnader. You said you have a family tree for this family. I would appreciate the tree. Thanks so much, Catherine MORAY-L Archives Archiver > MORAY > 2008-04 > 1207604741 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Anne Burgess" < > Subject: Re: [MORAY] Alexander Mackenzie Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 22:45:41 +0100 References: <[email protected]><[email protected]> > Re: Alexander McKenzie > his parents were Alexander Mckenzie and Isabella according to > the 1871 > census. > They lived in Muri of Lochs 1/2 miles east of Urquhart > brothers and sister were: > Alexander 1860 > James > William > Jane Ann > Jessie. > This is all I know so far. That's more like it. If you have the 1871 census, you must presumably also have ages and birthplaces too? The International Genealogical Index (IGI) at www.familysearch.org tells me that Alexander, son of Alexander Mackenzie and Isabella Williamson, was born in Urquhart on 5 September 1859, and that he was one of at least seven children. The others were John, born 17 April 1857 James, born 29 January 1862 Jane Anne, born 9 July 1864 Jessie, born 4 April 1867 William Innes, born 14 January 1870 George, born 27 October 1872 Because the census is always taken in the spring, Alexander would not have had his 1871 (twelfth) birthday by census day, so he would show up as aged 11. James would be 9, Jane Anne 6, Jessie just 4, and William 1. Alexander and Isabella were married in Urquhart on 18 December 1856. LIBINDX at http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp tells me that Alexander died at Lochs Cottage on 2 January 1913 aged 78, and Isabella on 13 December 1924 aged 88. On the same gravestone are John, died 14 January 1869 aged 11, Jessie, wife of Alexander Marr, died 19 January 1915 aged 47, Jane Ann, wife of John Reid, died 5 March 1936 aged 71, and John Reid died 26 January 1890 aged 24. There's also a James Mackie, husband of Jessie Reid or Mackenzie, who was drowned at sea on 19 December 1922. Armed with this information, you can go to Scotland's People (SP) www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk , invest in a few credits, and download images of some or all of these death certificates. Alexander Sr's and Isabella's will tell you the names of their parents. You can also get images of the census records for other years there. All the surviving family except Alexander Jr were still at Muir of Lochs in the 1881 census, which shows the birthplace of both Alexander and Isabella as Rathven. This is the parish whose main town is Buckie. There's another daughter in 1881, Isabella, aged 5, so born 1875/6, who is not listed in the IGI above. Have a good look at these sources and see what else you can find - I've only scratched the surface for you. If Isabella turns out to be the daughter of John Williamson and Jane Alexander, get back to me. I happen to have a family tree of part of that Williamson family. Happy hunting! Anne ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This thread: a.. Re: [MORAY] Alexander Mackenzie by "Anne Burgess" < > a.. Re: [MORAY] Alexander Mackenzie by "Jan Knox" < >

Thanks Ian for your information. Have been on both sites and already had some of the death information, but still can't find their deaths or census info. Joan ----- Original Message ----- From: <> Ian A C Scott > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Joan Statutory Registration started in 1855 and after that date parents names were recorded on Birth, Marriage and Death entries with 1855 being the most informative year. Prior to 1855 the Parish Records were much less informative and deaths were not regarded as a Sacrament and received little or no attention in many Parishes although you can. find burial records in some Parishes. As regards marriages it has to be remembered that the records are, in many cases, not a record of the marriage event, but a record of the Proclamation of Banns (if the parties resided in different Parishes the record could appear in the records of both Parishes) >From the above you will see that if you can find the records of the deaths you will find the parents names. It might help to look at the Moray Heritage Centre Website and their LIBINDX on which you can search using various keywords. Thomas George and Charlotte Ralph are listed and are shown as being buried in New Elgin Cemetery (Lair Reference NE(S) 882).. Other members of the family are also listed. Ian A C Scott