Not sure if this is strictly on topic, but it does seem relevant. I am aware that, over the centuries, Monmouthshire has been in both England and Wales (but not at the same time!). I have searched the internet, without success, to get some ideas as to the dates the national boundary changed, to see whether particular ancestors of mine were English or Welsh. Does anyone have the definitive information on this, or can point me in the right direction? Thanks, Graham Phillips (born in Yorkshire, so definitely English!)

Perhaps the non-Welsh who came to Monmouthshire (Gwent) thought they were in England but I doubt that the true Welsh ever doubted that they were in Wales. -- Twm Siôn Cati ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Smith" <luddite.jean@tiscali.co.uk> To: <monmouthshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [MON] Monmouthshire - England or Wales? > Others would disagree. See > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MON/Gaz1868.html for a potted > history of Monmouthshire. > > -Jean. > > At 21:12 23/04/2007, you wrote: >>Hi Graham, Monmouthshire was never in England. I believe the confusion >>came >>about from the family search.org site that still has Mon. in England. >> >>Best regards,Kevin. Co Cork Ireland > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MONMOUTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Unsubcribe- Jan James -----Original Message----- From: monmouthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:monmouthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Estelle Daniels Sent: Saturday, 21 April 2007 3:08 PM To: ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L-request@rootsweb.com; IRL-TIPPERARY-L@rootsweb.com; middlesex_county_uk@rootsweb.com; MONMOUTHSHIRE@rootsweb.com Subject: [MON] Better link to get a full Page for Qld Indices Hello Listers, Further to my earlier email regarding the new free on-line Queensland indexes - this link should give you more to work with on your page. This is the better link to use.... https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/BirIndexQry.m Estelle (in Qld) _________________________________________________________________ Advertisement: Its simple! Sell your car for just $30 at carsales.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwi de%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801577%2Fpi%5F100 5244%2Fai%5F838588&_t=754951090&_r=tig&_m=EXT ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MONMOUTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Barbara, just looking again at their marriage certificate, and my grandfather was living at Barry, and working as a Railway Electrician and grandma was residence at New Bethel Abercarn. He was born in Pontlottyn and she at Maerdy Don't know how they met . Amazing how they all moved around in those days. Christine.

G'day List Please accept my thanks to everybody for their help in the quest for my grandfather and grandmother's schools in the Pontypool area. Firstly, I have a good starting point for the search. Secondly, it looks as if I now have an address for my grandfather's family which Nicola Thomas sent to me off-list. Ray Lewis Hazelmere Western Australia Surname Interests in Monmouthshire: Jones; Lewis; Davies http://www.LostCousins.com/?ref=LC894461 -----Original Message----- From: monmouthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:monmouthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ann Macey Sent: Friday, 20 April 2007 4:14 PM To: monmouthshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MON] School records - Pontypool and district Take a look at this page, it might be useful http://www.eggra.co.uk/ARCHIVES/School%20Records.htm Ann Macey List Admin in Sunny Newport Gwent ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MONMOUTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message <http://874612.sigclick.mailinfo.com/sigclick/0A04050E/02004F04/034F03023183 23.jpg>

Hello Christine, It seems a long way for your grandparents to make the journey to marry in Mynyddislwyn when living in Maerdy in the Rhondda. Was your grandmother living in Mynyddislwyn Parish prior to marriage. Regards Barbara

Hi John, Thanks for showing me where your photos of New Bethel Church was. .It was the Cwmnantyrodyn bit I didn't know. I have taken a copy of it. My grandparents were married there 28th March 1907 when they were living in Maerdy. Christine .

Oh well done! I do like a success story. Ann Macey List Admin

Hello Listers, Further to my earlier email regarding the new free on-line Queensland indexes - this link should give you more to work with on your page. This is the better link to use.... https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/BirIndexQry.m Estelle (in Qld) _________________________________________________________________ Advertisement: Its simple! Sell your car for just $30 at carsales.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801577%2Fpi%5F1005244%2Fai%5F838588&_t=754951090&_r=tig&_m=EXT

Thank you to all those kind people that have replied to our query.. We will have to go back to the drawing board again and look at all the suggestions.. Val & John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Val & John Lewis" <val@chetwynd23.freeserve.co.uk> To: "Somerset" <ENG-SOMERSET-L@rootsweb.com>; <monmouthshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:36 PM Subject: [MON] William Smith > Can any one please help as we appear to have hit a brick wall > > Unable to locate a William Smith who was born approximately 1817.. > > The 1861 census for Blaina Monmouthshire states that he was born in > Westbury Somerset.We have checked all the Parishes around Westbury in > Somerset to no avail. The 1871 Census Blaina Monmouthshire states he was > born in Devonshire.Unfortunately we cannot locate him on the 1851 and he > was deceased prior to the 1881 census..Any ideas would be appreciated > > Val & John Lewis > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MONMOUTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

<PAWTY4@aol.com> wrote: ... my grand parents too were married at New Bethel Mynyddislwyn, and their first son ,my father was named Islwyn. Their are many of the Jenkins family buried there. It,s a beautiful Chapel, but the gravestonesare hardly readable. We visited there a few years ago. ============== Dear Lister, There are photographs of New Bethel Chapel and the adjacent graveyard in the 'Welsh Churches and Chapels Collection' on my website. Go to www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/churches/ then click on the 'Search indexes' button and scroll down the index to Cwmnantyrodyn. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, near Swansea, Wales, UK E-mail: john@jlb2005.plus.com John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists

David Attride <davidattride@yahoo.com> wrote: Now I just have to find out what parish includes that [Govilon] area. ====================== Dear David, According to Kain and Oliver's research (2001), Govilon was originally in the parish of Llanwenarth (aka Llanwenarth Citra) in the county of Monmouthshire. Govilon was only 1 kilometre from the county border with Breconshire. Source: KAIN, Roger J. P., and OLIVER, Richard R. (2001) "Historic Parishes of England & Wales - An Electronic Map of Boundaries before 1850 with a Gazetteer and Metadata", History Data Service, University of Essex, Colchester. ISBN 0-9540032-0-9. In 1865, the parish of Llanwenarth Ultra was formed out of part of Llanwenarth, with Christ Church as its parish church. The parish records are with the Gwent County Records Office at Cwmbrân. Source: GENUKI website at: www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MON/Llanwenarth/ For census purposes and for the civil registration of births, marriages, and deaths, Govilon was included in Abergavenny Registration District. Source: GENUKI website at: www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/abergavenny.html Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, near Swansea, Wales, UK E-mail: john@jlb2005.plus.com John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists

Hi Peter, Thanks for the suggestion. In other circs. that's what I would have expected. However, we know the family was in the Forest of Dean in 1881 and family archives suggest that they moved directly to Llanhilleth. The first death to occur in Wales seems to have been in Tredegar, but we cannot find where the burial was. G-Grandad's mother, brother and child all died around 1900-1901 and for some reason were all taken all the way to Cwmnantyrodin for burial in New Bethel churchyard. I think I shall have to pursue the Tredegar death for a burial place...though why that one should have gone to New Bethel is also a mystery! Sian. Peter Williams wrote: >Hi Sian, > >I found something similar. In 1870 and again in 1871, my g. grandfather >took his dead infant children from Abertillery to be buried in Tredunnock. >Quite a distance. He did this because there was a family plot in Tredunnock >where his grandparents and g. grandparents were buried, together with other >members of the family. This turned out very helpful to my research, as it >confirmed the link between my g. grandfather and the rest of the family in >Tredunnock. > >By 1887, when another child died, he had moved up to Brynmawr and no longer >made the journey back to Tredunnock. All the rest of the family were buried >in Brynmawr. > >Peter Williams > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Sian Mackey" <sian@swallowtail.org> >To: <MONMOUTHSHIRE@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 11:12 PM >Subject: [MON] New Bethel Mynyddislwyn burials > > > > >>Several members of my great grandfather's family were buried in New >>Bethel churchyard Mynyddislwyn around 1900. The puzzle for us is that we >>know the family was living in Llanhilleth then and the headstone was >>made in Abertillery. It seems a long way to go for a burial. We know one >>of the funerals involved a two-horse hearse, which must have taken quite >>a while to get all the way from Llanhilleth.Was there no other >>non-conformist burial ground any nearer? Seems unlikely, but not >>impossible. Or is there some other reason why families might have gone >>to such lengths to be buried there? >> >>Sian Mackey. >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>MONMOUTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MONMOUTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Pictures of: Nantyglo, MON; and Buildings in Merthyr Tydfil, GLA Dear Listers, This week's 'Retrospective Images of Wales' webpages, just uploaded onto my website, include: 1. The former coal-mining and iron town of Nantyglo in the county of Monmouthshire (seven pictures). This feature was first shown on 'Images of Wales' in February 1999. 2. Streets and buildings in Merthyr Tydfil, in the county of Glamorgan (seven pictures). This feature was first shown on 'Images of Wales' in June 1998. As usual, these webpages will be on display for one week. 'Retrospective Images of Wales' is at www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/retro/retro.htm Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, near Swansea, Wales, UK E-mail: john@jlb2005.plus.com John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) mailing lists

Hi Sian, my grand parents too were married at New Bethel Mynyddislwyn, and their first son ,my father was named Islwyn. Their are many of the Jenkins family buried there. It,s a beautiful Chapel, but the gravestonesare hardly readable. We visited there a few years ago.

Just to emphasise the changeable nature of the border in this area, in contrast to Barbara, the certificates I have for Govilon show the following: 1848 - birth in "Upper Govilon in the parish of Llanwenarth Ultra" Registration District Abergavenny Sub-District Blaenavon County Monmouth 1856, 1858 - births in "Govilon Llanwenarth Ultra" Registration District Blaenavon Sub-District Blaenavon County Monmouth I imagine the boundary changes were largely due to the population increase as the area became more industrialised and the administrative units needed altering. As the early directories indicate, Llanwenarth was a large parish, with Govilon a village within it. There's a parish map at http://uk.geocities.com/rowla_d/Parish-Map-Frames.html which will give some idea of the area covered (it's undated but I think it shows the boundaries around 1830). Llanelly, Breconshire was one of the parishes just over the county border alongside Llanwenarth, so there's plenty of scope for all those names to appear in someone's census entries - and what people tell the census enumerator often isn't the precise administrative unit! Regards Barbara Griffiths Coventry UK ----- Original Message ----- From: <B1oatley@aol.com> To: <jokelly@toucansurf.com> Cc: <monmouthshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [MON] Govilon > Hello, > I have BMD certificates in front of me for 1883,1895,1896 and the > certificate for 1883 is > Registration District is Merthyr Tydfil > Sub-District Aberdare > Counties of Glamorgan and Brecon > Certificates for 1895,1896 > Registration District is Bedwellty > Sub-District Aberystruth > Counties of Monmouthshire and Brecknock. > So it appears that Brecon/Brec was correct. > Regards Barbara

Hello Listers, For those who had family emigrate to the northern parts of Australia - a limited range of Births, Deaths & Marriages (up to 1914) is now on-line for Queensland. It is very very new and still having "teething" problems - but a very welcome addition to our research avenues. This is the link: http://www.justice.qld.gov.au/bdm/IndexSearch.htm Good luck researching, Estelle (in Qld where its still quite warm) _________________________________________________________________ Advertisement: 1000s of Sexy Singles online now at Lavalife - Click here http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26locale%3Den%5FAU%26a%3D27782&_t=762229680&_r=lavalife_apr07_1000sexysingles&_m=EXT

Hi My great grandfather was rather inexplicably born in Govilon in 1854 - children before and after all Monmouth, which is where they are in all the censuses. I can understand that his father might have gone there for work purposes but can't imagine why he had to take his heavily pregnant wife! Anyway, I'd never heard of it either but came across this site http://www.govilon.com/about/ Despite the 'Brec' it is definitely in Monmouthshire. Joss >>>>>>Message: 4 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 05:34:37 +0100 From: "Robert Treharne Jones" <tjwizard@tiscali.co.uk> Subject: Re: [MON] GAVILON PRCE - where is it? To: <monmouthshire@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <006501c78305$34592100$0202a8c0@LEANDER.CO.UK> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear David 'Gavilon' may well be Govilon http://tinyurl.com/yupcfp Not sure what 'Prce' might be though. Just had a look at the original image - I think it says 'Govilon, Brec (or Brecon)'. Robert -----Original Message----- From: monmouthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:monmouthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Attride I am new to the Monmouthshire list. I am trying to trace the origin of: MARTIN WILLIAMS born ca 1809 who was in Glamorgan by 1841 and stayed there until he left for Pennsylvania ca 1872. Unfortunately the various census' list different places of birth: 1851 Brecon, Llanwenarth 1861 Llanelli, CMN 1871 Gavilon Prce Is anyone on this list familiar with Gavilon Prce? What parish would it be listed with? TTFN Joss

Hi Robert, Thanks so much for pointing this out. Now I just have to find out what parish includes that area. David --- Robert Treharne Jones <tjwizard@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: > Dear David > > 'Gavilon' may well be Govilon > http://tinyurl.com/yupcfp > Not sure what 'Prce' might be though. > > Just had a look at the original image - I think it > says 'Govilon, Brec (or > Brecon)'. > > Robert > > > -----Original Message----- > From: monmouthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:monmouthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of David Attride > I am new to the Monmouthshire list. I am trying to > trace the origin of: > MARTIN WILLIAMS born ca 1809 who was in Glamorgan > by > 1841 and stayed there until he left for Pennsylvania > ca 1872. Unfortunately the various census' list > different places of birth: > 1851 Brecon, Llanwenarth > 1861 Llanelli, CMN > 1871 Gavilon Prce > > Is anyone on this list familiar with Gavilon Prce? > What parish would it be listed with? > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to MONMOUTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Hi David, I thought you might find this link useful. It gives the GENUKI list of nearby places & a grid reference for Govilon. You'll see that Llanwenarth, Cwm & Govilon are not too far apart. _http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/nearby?CCC=MON,GRIDREF=SO266138,DISTANCE=5,P N=Govilon_ (http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/nearby?CCC=MON,GRIDREF=SO266138,DISTANCE=5,PN=Govilon) Don't be put off by the Breconshire/Monmouthshire/Llanelli thing - the county boundaries move about quite a bit in this area. I'm originally from Gilwern (not far from Govilon) & it has been in both Gwent & Monmouthshire in recent memory - I've got a feeling Gilwern came under Breconshire/Brecknock at one time & possibly Powys too! I don't think we can make our minds up if we're better of English or Welsh being this close to the borders ;-) Cwm (near Ebbw Vale) certainly came under the Parish of Llanelli although Llanelli Parish no longer technically exists & most of it has become part of Blaenau Gwent now. Hope this helps.x