Pictures of: High Street, Merthyr Tydfil, GLA; and Dowlais, GLA Dear Listers, This week's 'Retrospective Images of Wales' webpages, just uploaded onto my website, include: 1. Scenes taken in High Street, Merthyr Tydfil in the county of Glamorgan (seven pictures). This feature was first shown on 'Images of Wales' in May 1998. 2. The former iron-making town of Dowlais in the county of Glamorgan (seven pictures). This feature was first shown on 'Images of Wales' in May 1998. As usual, these webpages will be on display for one week. 'Retrospective Images of Wales' is at www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/retro/retro.htm Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Ystalyfera, near Swansea, Wales, UK E-mail: john@jlb2005.plus.com John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) mailing lists

The phrase "Names of men drawn for Service... rather suggests that there was some sort of drawing of lots involved, and the Union officials supervised it, rather than colliery managers. Hi Anne and Jeff, yes Jeff, thats what I thought too. Anne, I wonder if another list exists anywhere? I have tried to find more information from the National Archives website, however to date I have never, ever found anything that I have searched for. I think its very difficult to access any of their archives, but I suppose it could be me, not being very experienced. Or does everyone find it complicated? regards Angie

In view of changes details on certificates received yesterday made (see message I posted yesterday) it may be helpful to have what I know at this point about third wife of Henry Pitt MEREDITH, Ann EVANS, in order to answer questions posed. Her maiden name came from birth certificates just received for the children Elizabeth Ann MEREDITH and Frederick George MEREDITH and was not what I had anticipated. Henry Pitt MEREDITH and Ann Evans married in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire in June 1872 quarter, according to free BMD. 1. It appears she was born about 1837 in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire. Need to order marriage certificate to find out name of her father. 2. The 1881 census shows Ann, age 44, born in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire. 3. On 1891 census Ann was age 54, born in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire. 4. When 1901 census was taken, Ann was 64, widowed, born in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire. 5. She died in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire, in 1910, age 74. Ruth Ann in United States

The message posted yesterday did not include details on children of Henry Pitt MEREDITH. More continues to be learned about each of these children as research progresses. Hopefully these details will help those who are trying to answer questions I posted yesterday about wives of Henry Pitt MEREDITH. 1. Ellen BUCKLEY, also used surname MEREDITH. a. Born about 1855 in California, United States, possibly a daughter of Henry's first wife before he married her. Records of that time period in the gold rush area are difficult to find. b. Ellen BUCKLEY, age 5 on 1860 La Porte, Sierra County, California census c. MAYBE--Ellen MEREDITH, age 18 on 1871 census, birthplace unknown, dressmaker, at Hanover Square, London, England (not sure about this one, but she was one of several unrelated individuals in the home) d. Ellen MEREDITH, age 26 on 1881 census, birthplace San Francisco, America (Sierra County is north and east of San Francisco), draper's assistant, at St. Albans, Hertfordshire, England in home of a draper who employed seven assistants. e. Ellen MEREDITH, age 34 or 36 (hard to read) on 1891 census, draper's assistant, born United States (British subject), living with married William MEREDITH and listed as his sister. This census is the one that makes me pretty certain that the first wife of Henry died in America. f. Have not found Ellen after 1891 nor a death record. g. Ellen likely did not marry. Relatives in Australia have indicated that two maiden aunts (sisters to Henry James MEREDITH) wrote to the family from the British Isles. I believe her to be one of these two. 2. Mary Ann MEREDITH. a. Born about 1858 in California, United States to Henry Pitt MEREDITH and first wife Margaret RILEY. b. Age 1 on 1860 census, La Porte, Sierra County, California, taken in June. c. Believe she also did not marry and was the other maiden aunt that corresponded with relatives in Australia. d. Have not found her after family returned to the British Isles, either on census or a death record. 3. Henry James MEREDITH. a. Born in 1859/1860 in California, United States to Henry Pitt MEREDITH and first wife Margaret RILEY. b. Family Bible in Australia that he wrote in gave birth as March 1860. c. On 1860 census for La Porte, Sierra County, California that was taken in June 1860 and was to show those in home on June 1, 1860, showed him as six months old. d. He would have been under ten years old when his father married second wife in 1869 in Breconshire. e. Have not found him on 1871 or 1881 census records. f. In 1885 he went to Australia, married shortly after his arrival to a girl who was born in Australia, had five children, and remained in Australia. I am corresponding with his descendants who live there. g. Died in 1921 in Sydney, New South Wales, Australia. 4. William T. MEREDITH. a. Born about 1862 in California, United States. b. Age 19 on 1881 census, born in America, railway clerk, Abergavenny, Monmouthshire, with his father Henry MEREDITH c. Married by 1887 to Elizabeth (who was born in Tredegar, Monmouthshire). d. Daughter Sadie MEREDITH born about 1887 in Blaenavon, Monmouthshire. e. Daughter Annie MEREDITH born about 1888 in Merthyr, Glamorganshire. f. Age 29 on 1891 census, born in United States (British subject), railway agent, at Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorganshire. "Sister" Ellen MEREDITH in home in addition to his wife and daughter Annie. (Actually Ellen is believed to be Ellen BUCKLEY, his step-sister.) g. Son Raymond Palmer MEREDITH, born in mid 1895, Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorganshire. h. Age 39 on 1901 census, born in California, U.S.A. (British subject), railway agent, Abergavenny, Monmouthshire. 5. Not aware of any children of Henry Pitt MEREDITH and his second wife Ann HAMER. 6. Elizabeth Ann MEREDITH. a. Born 8 April 1873 to Henry Pitt MEREDITH and third wife Ann EVANS, at Abergavenny, Monmouthshire. b. Age 8 on 1881 census with parents in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire. c. Not with parents on 1891 census. d. Married Alfred GWATKIN 28 June 1894 in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire, just a few months after the death of her father. e. Daughter May GWATKIN born about 1896 in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire. f. Son Frederick Pitt GWATKIN born 4 June 1897 in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire. g. Daughter Violet Augusta GWATKIN born spring 1899, died 23 June 1901, age two years of tubercular meningitis. h. Elizabeth Ann (MEREDITH) GWATKIN died before 1901 census was taken, as husband was listed as widowed. Elizabeth's own widowed mother was with Alfred and the three young children on the 1901 census in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire. 7. Frederick George MEREDITH. a. Born 10 January 1879 in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire. b. Age 2 on 1881 census with parents in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire. c. Age 12 on 1891 census with parents in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire. d. Died 15 July 1896 in Abergavenny, age 17, of "phthisis", whatever that is. Ruth Ann in United States

The phrase "Names of men drawn for Service... rather suggests that there was some sort of drawing of lots involved, and the Union officials supervised it, rather than colliery managers. Jeff

Additional information on message sent yesterday and to answer questions asked by Ruth (on Powys list) and Gareth (on Hereford list). No ages were given for either the bride or the groom on the marriage certificate, just "full age". I have no doubt that the marriage certificate refers to the Henry Pitt MEREDITH I am researching. These parts match details known about Henry and his family--widowed, gentleman, residence was Cusop (Herefordshire) where his parents and brother were living, father's name and occupation fit, witness was his brother David (from Cusop). The marriage in January 1869 took place in Hay, Breconshire. I understand that it was in that time period within walking distance from Cusop (Herefordshire) and Clyro (Radnorshire) where others in the MEREDITH family were at this time. From the various records it appears Henry was born about 1819/1820 in Clodock, Herefordshire. 1825 he was baptized/christened with two other siblings at Clodock, Herefordshire. He likely was the eldest of the three as this order was supported later in wills of his PITT grandfather and PITT uncle. His just older brother David was born in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire about 1816. 1841 age 16 (ages round down on that census) with parents and some siblings at Clyro, Radnorshire 1851 age 34, on census as visitor with emigration agent in Liverpool, England 1851 age 32, on ship passenger list on arrival in United States 1860 age 40, on California census 1869 no age given when married Ann HAMER in Hay, Breconshire 1871 cannot find Henry Pitt MEREDITH on that census 1881 age 60, (is indexed as 40) on census at Abergavenny, Monmouthshire 1891 age 72, on census at Abergavenny, Monmouthshire 1894 age 75, on death certificate, died at Abergavenny, Monmouthshire IF the Ann MEREDITH, age 59, that died in December 1869 quarter in Presteigne district is indeed Ann (HAMER) MEREDITH, she would have been born about 1810, which would make her 9 or 10 years older than Henry. No other possibilities are shown on the free BMD. The 1869 marriage certificate says Ann was a spinster, which leads me to believe she was not widowed and had not been married before. Might she have been someone who helped care for the children (details on them in another message) when Henry returned from America? Geographically, does Presteigne sound like a possibility? Ruth Ann in the USA

Dear Angie Much to my surprise I have found the list quite easily!! It is dated 17th June 1918 and so is later than the session which would have included your gr father. The paper is headed Rose Heyworth Colliery Lodge and then there are the names of the Chairman (Isaac LONG), Treasurer (John MUTTER) Train Secretary (Isaac GRIFFITHS) Secretary (J. WILLIAMS) with all their home addresses. Then the opening paragraph states "Names of men drawn for Service and sent on to the Military Authorities 17th June 1918". There are 24 names and the signature at the end is J. Williams, Sec. William GODWIN George COOK ?E or S Joseph THOMAS Chas PRENDEGAST James YORKE (Norman St) Lambert RAY ?MOND J Stanley MORGAN George Hy WILLIAMS David MORGAN Joseph PARRY Ben OWEN James POWELL Albert LEWIS Morgan WRIGHT Alfred WILLIAMS III ? John LEWIS Byron PHILLIPS John PINCOTT W J LEWIS Mel FLORENCE (discharged) William SMITH Edwin MEREDITH Phil ROWSON Arthur PRICE Hope this helps best wishes Anne -----Original Message----- From: monmouthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:monmouthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Cairntutu@aol.com Sent: 27 April 2007 07:45 To: monmouthshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MON] Welsh Territorial Army?? In a message dated 26/04/2007 21:56:49 GMT Daylight Time, anne.welch@virgin.net writes: My great grandfather Isaac LONG was in some sort of administrative position in Rose Heyworth pit in Abertillery during WW1 and I have a list of names which had been drawn up of miners who the pit was puting forward for enlistment in the forces Hello Anne, many thanks for that, you could be the one who puts an end to big, big family arguments Could you please have a look at the list to see if the name Tom Symonds or Simmonds (or similar) is on the list. I understand he worked at Rose Heyworth pit and lived on Alma Street look forward to hearing from you Angie PS how big is the list, were there many names? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MONMOUTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi im trying to find out anything on the following family who in 1901 were living in LLantarnam Alfred Williams born 1861 bristol, wife Ann born 1863 dowlais and their children Albert v born 1886, Charles v 1891, Ellen 1895, Ivor 1893, Annie B 1899 and Phillip 1897. Is anyone else researching this family or could tell me anything about what happened to them after 1901. ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam

In a message dated 26/04/2007 21:56:49 GMT Daylight Time, anne.welch@virgin.net writes: My great grandfather Isaac LONG was in some sort of administrative position in Rose Heyworth pit in Abertillery during WW1 and I have a list of names which had been drawn up of miners who the pit was puting forward for enlistment in the forces Hello Anne, many thanks for that, you could be the one who puts an end to big, big family arguments Could you please have a look at the list to see if the name Tom Symonds or Simmonds (or similar) is on the list. I understand he worked at Rose Heyworth pit and lived on Alma Street look forward to hearing from you Angie PS how big is the list, were there many names?

Hi all, Can anyone advise as to whether a widow who is marrying for the 2nd time (around the 1840's) would use her maiden name or her surname from her 1st marriage on her marriage certificate?? Thanks for any help given Jules

With the arrival of additional certificates today, more questions have come up about Henry Pitt MEREDITH. Instead of helping to solve the puzzle, the certificates have enlarged the puzzle! He was christened in 1825 in Clodock, Herefordshire, the same day as two other siblings. The 1841 census shows him at Clyro, Radnorshire, Wales, with his parents James MEREDITH and Elizabeth (PITT) MEREDITH. When 1851 census was taken he was at residence of an emigration agent in Liverpool, England, shortly before sailing to the United States. In the United States he married, had children, and appeared on the 1860 census in California in a gold rush area. After the death of his first wife, he and the children returned to the British Isles. On 12 January 1869 at Hay, Breconshire, widowed gent Henry MEREDITH of Cusop (Herefordshire) married Ann HAMER of Hay (Breconshire), spinster and daughter of William HAMER, a laborer. Have searched unsuccessfully for this couple and Henry's children on the 1871 census. Nor could I find Ann HAMER and her father on earlier census records. When I found Henry MEREDITH on the 1881 census in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire, it seemed all was well, until today. Henry was a retired goldminer, born in Clodock, Herefordshire. His wife Ann was born in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire. Son William, age 19, was born in America Daughter Elizabeth, 8, born in Abergavenny Son Frederick, 2, born in Abergavenny Birth certificates that came today appear to show Henry's second wife Ann HAMER died and he married a third wife, also named Ann. What do you think? Birth certificates for Elizabeth Ann MEREDITH, born 8 April 1873 in Abergavenny (father Henry MEREDITH a proprietor of funds--whatever that means) and Frederick George MEREDITH, born 10 January 1879 in Abergavenny (father Henry MEREDITH a yeoman) BOTH show their mother as Ann Meredith, formerly EVANS. In checking the free BMD a marriage is shown for a Henry MEREDITH and an Ann EVANS in June 1872 quarter in Abergavenny district. Now it definitely appears Ann EVANS was the third wife of Henry Pitt MEREDITH. So what happened to his second wife Ann HAMER? Cannot find a possible death for Ann (HAMER) MEREDITH. On the 1891 census, death certificate for Henry Pitt MEREDITH in 1894, death certificate for Frederick George MEREDITH in 1896, and death certificate for Ann MEREDITH in 1910, Henry Pitt MEREDITH is shown as "of independent means". Ruth Ann in the USA

Dear Angie It is true that this did happen. My great grandfather Isaac LONG was in some sort of administrative position in Rose Heyworth pit in Abertillery during WW1 and I have a list of names which had been drawn up of miners who the pit was puting forward for enlistment in the forces. One of the individuals was my cousin's grandfather!! I don't remember the exact details but the pit seems to have been approached and were asked who they could spare and they replied with some suggestions. Hope this helps best wishes Anne -----Original Message----- From: monmouthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:monmouthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Cairntutu@aol.com Sent: 26 April 2007 18:28 To: monmouthshire@rootsweb.com Subject: [MON] Welsh Territorial Army?? There is a family legend that my gr father who worked in the coal mine in Abertillery was sent to join the territorial army at Clipstone camp in Nottinghamshire about 1917/18, he was then sent home at the latter end of 1918 because his wife and children were very ill with the world wide flu bug which was prevalent at that time My question is, 'why would he be taken out of the coal mine and sent to join the territorials' Can anyone please put my mind at rest and save me from more heated arguments within my family, because I think this is not true, but some of them swear it is. Has anyone come across this before, or anything similar? If not then please help me to find the truth in this cheers Angie PS I can't find anything in the Archives online (but then I never can!) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MONMOUTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:08:20 +0100 "Paula Payne" <1seabreeze@gmail.com> wrote: Hello Paula, > My Great Grandmother was a widow when she married my Great > Grandfather, on their marriage certificate it gave her married name > and underneath it said, formerly, then her maiden name I've not seen one in that form (yet), but obviously, they exist. No doubt there have been changes in format over time anyway. Just as there have in birth and death registrations. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" We don't give a damn One Chord Wonders - The Adverts

Jules, On 23 Sep 1816 Edward Evans, a widower, married Harrah Jarret, a widow as recorded in the Bishops Transcripts for the Parish of Risca, Monmouthshire. Hannah's maiden name was Coslet--recorded on the death certificate of one of their children. I would appreciate any further information anyone may have about Edward and Hannah. Harold Jules wrote: >Hi all, >Can anyone advise as to whether a widow who is marrying for the 2nd time (around the 1840's) >would use her maiden name or her surname from her 1st marriage on her marriage certificate?? >Thanks for any help given >Jules > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MONMOUTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

To the people who don't read what they sign up for: Start here: http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/community_guidelines.html to understand the List Admins point of view: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/listadmins/duties.html > Anne > > Whether or not access to research facilities falls within the > definition of genealogy may be debatable - I happen to think it does. > More pertinent to the current debate is who decides what gets discussed > on this list. The LIst Administrator is not appointed by the membership > so it might be useful at this juncture to know who does make the > appointment and within what Terms of Reference. > > Robert > (Getting hot under the collar, just as I did with the even-more- > doctrinaire Northumberland Administrator) > > >>----Original Message---- >>From: annmacey@ntlworld.com >>I am going to close this topic now, it might be about research > > facilities > >>but it is not about genealogy. >> >>I am not asking for discussion about this message, sorry to seem a > > little > >>terse here but I am trying prevent a heated discussion about a > > subject when > >>all the facts of the case are not known by everyone. Please respect > > my > >>actions or contact me off list. >> >>Ann Macey >>Your troubled List Admin >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MONMOUTHSHIRE- > > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > Tiscali Broadband only £9.99 a month for your first 3 months! http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MONMOUTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks for this. Unfortunately I won't be able to attend the day as I now live elsewhere and my next scheduled visit to Newport isn't until the end of May. I guess the museum exhibition might still be on...However, having followed the link, I was horrified to read the first line "As speculation mounts that Newport's landmark Chartist mural may be demolished.." What!!!!!!! I know this isn't strictly a geneaological matter but it's outrageous. The mural could admittedly do with being somewhere other than in a gloomy tunnel, but getting rid of it is terrible. Is this really a possibility and who should I complain to about it? Is there a petition? Does anyone know? TTFN Joss

At 07:07 26/04/2007, you wrote: >all the facts of the case are not known by everyone. Please enlighten us as to the facts of the case, Ann. -Jean.

In a message dated 26/04/2007 15:04:02 GMT Standard Time, jaenglish@comcast.net writes: My ancestors, Thomas Powell and family, were in Newport in 1839. I live across the pond so obviously can't attend this event. How can I find out if they were involved? Janet English Pittsburgh, PA USA Janet A lot of names are known from the 1839 event, but there were thousands there and so the details mainly relate to those who were killed, or else tried afterwards. Clearly there are many people involved who have not yet been identified publicly and we would like to know who they were. Through the University of Wales, Newport, we are trying to mobilise support for work to be done tracking these people and identifying descendants. We have no resources to do this work, but are hoping that this can begin by a volunteer group. There are already things happening with Chartist ancestors, and there is a very good website _http://www.chartists.net/_ (http://www.chartists.net/) where you can find details of the Newport rising. If we can get movement with this, then we may be able to link the findings to this site to make the information freely available. I will post some feedback after the event next week. regards Pete Brown Newport

Hi My Great Grandmother was a widow when she married my Great Grandfather, on their marriage certificate it gave her married name and underneath it said, formerly, then her maiden name Paula On 26/04/07, Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> wrote: > > On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:51:39 +1000 > "Jules" <jules.18@bigpond.com> wrote: > > Hello Jules, > > > Can anyone advise as to whether a widow who is marrying for the 2nd > > time (around the 1840's) would use her maiden name or her surname > > from her 1st marriage on her marriage certificate?? Thanks for any > > help given Jules > > She should have been married using her name from the previous > marriage. Obviously, with her father's surname being different, it is > then obvious she was previously married. Even then, under 'Condition', > it should say "widow". > > -- > Regards _ > / ) "The blindingly obvious is > / _)rad never immediately apparent" > > The public wants what the public gets > Going Underground - The Jam > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MONMOUTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

In a message dated 4/26/2007 10:52:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jules.18@bigpond.com writes: Can anyone advise as to whether a widow who is marrying for the 2nd time (around the 1840's) would use her maiden name or her surname from her 1st marriage on her marriage certificate?? Hi, Jules. My 2xGreat Grandmother, Mary nee Joshua, was widowed in 1843 with the death of her first husband, Evan Evans. She remarried James Goodwin in 1847 in MON and used her surname from her first marriage on the marriage certificate, where she is cast as a widow. Regards, Cecil ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.