I have been trying to locate the parents of John BLACK or parents of his wife Sarah. In the year 1850 they were living in Lower St. Clair Township, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. John BLACK age abt. 27 and a miner - b. Pennsylvania Sarah age abt 22 - wife - b. Pennsylvania Mary L age abt 3 - daughter - b. Pennsylvania Thomas age abt 1 - son - b. Pennsylvania Michael D. SMITH age abt 15 - b. Wales I realize this is almost an impossible task but thinking someone might have a young man missing from a SMITH family and haven't any idea what happened to him. Families usually sent someone so young to stay with family members. So, he might be related through Sarah (her maiden name) or through Johns mother (her maiden name). If I don't somehow connect with someone who might know who John BLACKs parents were and where they came from I won't be able to continue my fathers line further. Thought I would give this a try, people on this list have a lot of experience researching and coming up with answers. I am keeping my fingers crossed. Alice California ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

It looks as if the Fanny SMART age 44 in 1901 shown as the mother of young Harry was born Fanny Maria CANNARD in Somerset, Long Ashton and married Charles Robert SMART in Barton Regis registration district (which was just outside Bristol, including Clifton) in June quarter of 1877. In 1881 they had two other children, Lucy Ann age 1 and Frederick, 3, shown as a daughter! They were already in Cwm In 1871 as Fanny Maria CANARD she was with parents Joseph and Emma, and younger sister Lucy Ann, in Long Ashton. She was shown as age 12 at that point and there was an older step-brother Edwin Poole 17. Joseph Cannard had married Emma POOLE in Bedminster district in September quarter 1855. Fanny Maria CANNARD was born in Bedminster district Dec qr 1858 It looks at least possible that Fanny junior married in September quarter 1898 in Bedwelty district either to Edward Absalom RUSSELL or George JONES. [A Fanny RUSSELL age 19 died in Merthyr Tydfil district in March quarter 1901. Earlier an Edward Russell had been born in Dec qr 1899 and died in 1900, both in Bedwelty district.] However I think that in 1901 census Fanny (20) and Edward RUSSEL(24), a Collier, were alive and well in Marine Street,Cwm, Ebbw Vale which Charles age 2 and Stanley age 8mo. It looks as if Fanny Maria (the elder) remarried in 1903 either to Alfred John GRIFFITHS or Charles JONES. Charles Robert SMART had died in Bedwelty in June quarter of 1897. None of this answers who was the father of young Henry or Harry born in 1900. Sorry Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: <B1oatley@aol.com> To: <felicitysmart@doctors.org.uk> Cc: <monmouthshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [MON] GIFFORD CWM EBBW VALE 1900 > Hello Felicity, > What became of Fanny born 1882 the daughter of Charles and Fanny Smart, > was > it her that was the mother of Henry and not Fanny wife of Charles. > I located Fanny the daughter in 1891 aged 9 living at home with Charles > and > Fanny but couldn't find her in 1901. > Regards Barbara

Died On Friday last, aged 66, Mrs THOMAS, wife of Mr. John THOMAS, of Newport, Monmouthshire; a sincere Christian. Her loss is deeply lamented by a numerous family and extensive circle of acquaintance. Lyn Nunn Brisbane Australia

Just been informed that the place Pantyryn [Newbridge] which I was searching for is indeed a farm named Panty-yr-yn near Newbridge. What I require now please if possible is the occupants of this farm about 1911. I know my grandfather's brother a William Morgan was living there, would like to know if he had a family. Maybe from an electoral record or any other record that might be able to assist me. Thankyou. Eirwen.

HiJudy You could try the forest of dean web-site:- www.forest _of_dean.net Sylvia From: "knjblackford" <knjblackford@ozemail.com.au> Reply-To: monmouthshire@rootsweb.com To: <MONMOUTHSHIRE@rootsweb.com> Subject: [MON] emigration records - Wales to Australia Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 12:25:07 +1000 I am still on the trail of my great grandfather - James Woolley - born 1851 in Skenfrith, Monmouthshire, Monmouth, Wales, son of Samuel Woolley and Hannah Woolley (nee Knight). Both parents, I believe, were born in Longhope, about 1819 - 1821. James emigrated to Australia. We are not sure when, what ship or where he landed in Australia, or for that matter if he went somewhere before coming to Australia. We have found him on 1870 Wales census living with his brother Thomas Woolley. After 1870 census I have not been able to find either brother. James married in Charters Towers, Queensland, Australia in 1886 Does anyone know if there are any records available that I may be able to look further in our quest for knowledge of our ancestors? Appreciate your help. Thank you, Judy Blackford (nee Woolley) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MONMOUTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ The next generation of Hotmail is here! http://www.newhotmail.co.uk

Hello Felicity, What became of Fanny born 1882 the daughter of Charles and Fanny Smart, was it her that was the mother of Henry and not Fanny wife of Charles. I located Fanny the daughter in 1891 aged 9 living at home with Charles and Fanny but couldn't find her in 1901. Regards Barbara

Hi Judy, there are ship's passenger lists available online, if you neither know the ship or the date I would presume it would take nearly forever! <grin> But they are available, try Google-ing 'ships passenger lists, then say start with the ships that left 1871 and afterwards. You can edit the searches when you get the ships, it will list the country of entry. My SMITHs left Ebbw Vale on board the Jumna in 1887 and landed in Australia, Brisbane area. They sailed from London, so don't presume they may have left Wales! My grandfather was born in Bundaberg in 1889. As I said, it will take a lot of time but you may find them eventually. Good lucj and happy hunting! Regards, Michael McAllister www.dig4ancestors.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "knjblackford" <knjblackford@ozemail.com.au> To: <MONMOUTHSHIRE@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 3:25 AM Subject: [MON] emigration records - Wales to Australia I am still on the trail of my great grandfather - James Woolley - born 1851 in Skenfrith, Monmouthshire, Monmouth, Wales, son of Samuel Woolley and Hannah Woolley (nee Knight). Both parents, I believe, were born in Longhope, about 1819 - 1821. James emigrated to Australia. We are not sure when, what ship or where he landed in Australia, or for that matter if he went somewhere before coming to Australia. We have found him on 1870 Wales census living with his brother Thomas Woolley. After 1870 census I have not been able to find either brother. James married in Charters Towers, Queensland, Australia in 1886 Does anyone know if there are any records available that I may be able to look further in our quest for knowledge of our ancestors? Appreciate your help. Thank you, Judy Blackford (nee Woolley)

I am still on the trail of my great grandfather - James Woolley - born 1851 in Skenfrith, Monmouthshire, Monmouth, Wales, son of Samuel Woolley and Hannah Woolley (nee Knight). Both parents, I believe, were born in Longhope, about 1819 - 1821. James emigrated to Australia. We are not sure when, what ship or where he landed in Australia, or for that matter if he went somewhere before coming to Australia. We have found him on 1870 Wales census living with his brother Thomas Woolley. After 1870 census I have not been able to find either brother. James married in Charters Towers, Queensland, Australia in 1886 Does anyone know if there are any records available that I may be able to look further in our quest for knowledge of our ancestors? Appreciate your help. Thank you, Judy Blackford (nee Woolley)

Dear Felicity Wondering if you have located the Will for Charles Smart - perhaps he acknowledge Henry in that? regards Lyn in Oz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Felicity Smart" <felicitysmart@doctors.org.uk> To: <monmouthshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [MON] GIFFORD CWM EBBW VALE 1900 > Dear Barbara and Jeff > Thank you both for your replies. > Yes Henry Wells Gifford Smart is the one in question, He > was always thought to be the youngest son of Fanny and her > husband Charles who was a miner who died in1997, According > to his death cert he died of typhoid fever but my > cousin(Henry's daughter) is adamant that he died following > a pit explosion and has the bible allegedly given to his > widow by the mining company as compensation-another > unsolved mystery! > It was only after finding Charles Smart's death cert and > date that I realised that Henry could not have been > Charles' son, > When I contacted my cousin she confirmed that he had > discovered in his teens that he had another father, and > this was confirmed by other family members. He remembered > being taken to meet his natural father several times and > even visited him on his death bed. apparently his father > twice acknowledged him as his son, but after his death the > family refused to admit it. > Henry's daughter gave me details of her fathers > memories, those of attending the little school set up in > the grounds of the "big house" and his meetings with his > natural father, and also the feeling that Gifford was > connected to the mines in a position of authority.. He > always resented his illegitimacy and found it hard to > accept. His birth cert gives Fanny as his mother but the > fathers name is ommitted.My cousin has a photo of the > elderly man she was always told was Gifford mand two > leather bound books of poetry she was told were given to > Henry by his true father.. > What none has managed so far is to discover who this > natural father was. Henry's name bieng given as including > Gifford seems to confirm the story, but we know no more > and I have been trying to track him down but these are the > only clues I have. > Fanny was born in somerset where she married Charles and > the moved to Cwm in about 1886 where their last 3 children > were born.Charles worked both down the mines and > previously in the steel works. Fanny went on in 1903 to > marry an Alfred Griffiths who brought Henry up as his > stepson but was NOT his father, > I suppose The old man?Gifford could have set Fanny up with > her toy shop.Fanny lived until the 1930s and I have photos > of her with my father when a baby. > I still do not know where this big house where she worked > as a servant/house keeper was or who her emloyer was/My > cousins assertion is that his name was Gifford. No luck > with censuses or Kelly's Index so lloking for a lead.... > Felicity > > Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:47:52 +0100 > "Jeff Coleman" <jeff.coleman@ntlworld.com> wrote: >> The birth of Henry Wells G SMART was registered in March >>quarter of 1900 ref >> Bedwelty 11a 91 >> >> In the 1901 census he shows as 'Harry SMART' age 13 >>months at RG13; Piece: >> 4933; Folio: 109; Page: 21 listed as the son of Fanny >>SMART, 44,widow, b >> Bristol, Toy Shop Keeper in Marine Street, Cwm. 5 older >>children were at >> home in the census and also two boarders age 35 and 77, >>both single. >> >> Is there a father shown on the birth certificate? >> >> It seems to be a big step from being a servant in a big >>house to running a >> shop. >> >> Jeff >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>MONMOUTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >>body of the message >> >> >> > > > > This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider MailControl - > www.blackspider.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MONMOUTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Dear Barbara and Jeff Thank you both for your replies. Yes Henry Wells Gifford Smart is the one in question, He was always thought to be the youngest son of Fanny and her husband Charles who was a miner who died in1997, According to his death cert he died of typhoid fever but my cousin(Henry's daughter) is adamant that he died following a pit explosion and has the bible allegedly given to his widow by the mining company as compensation-another unsolved mystery! It was only after finding Charles Smart's death cert and date that I realised that Henry could not have been Charles' son, When I contacted my cousin she confirmed that he had discovered in his teens that he had another father, and this was confirmed by other family members. He remembered being taken to meet his natural father several times and even visited him on his death bed. apparently his father twice acknowledged him as his son, but after his death the family refused to admit it. Henry's daughter gave me details of her fathers memories, those of attending the little school set up in the grounds of the "big house" and his meetings with his natural father, and also the feeling that Gifford was connected to the mines in a position of authority.. He always resented his illegitimacy and found it hard to accept. His birth cert gives Fanny as his mother but the fathers name is ommitted.My cousin has a photo of the elderly man she was always told was Gifford mand two leather bound books of poetry she was told were given to Henry by his true father.. What none has managed so far is to discover who this natural father was. Henry's name bieng given as including Gifford seems to confirm the story, but we know no more and I have been trying to track him down but these are the only clues I have. Fanny was born in somerset where she married Charles and the moved to Cwm in about 1886 where their last 3 children were born.Charles worked both down the mines and previously in the steel works. Fanny went on in 1903 to marry an Alfred Griffiths who brought Henry up as his stepson but was NOT his father, I suppose The old man?Gifford could have set Fanny up with her toy shop.Fanny lived until the 1930s and I have photos of her with my father when a baby. I still do not know where this big house where she worked as a servant/house keeper was or who her emloyer was/My cousins assertion is that his name was Gifford. No luck with censuses or Kelly's Index so lloking for a lead.... Felicity Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:47:52 +0100 "Jeff Coleman" <jeff.coleman@ntlworld.com> wrote: > The birth of Henry Wells G SMART was registered in March >quarter of 1900 ref > Bedwelty 11a 91 > > In the 1901 census he shows as 'Harry SMART' age 13 >months at RG13; Piece: > 4933; Folio: 109; Page: 21 listed as the son of Fanny >SMART, 44,widow, b > Bristol, Toy Shop Keeper in Marine Street, Cwm. 5 older >children were at > home in the census and also two boarders age 35 and 77, >both single. > > Is there a father shown on the birth certificate? > > It seems to be a big step from being a servant in a big >house to running a > shop. > > Jeff > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >MONMOUTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word >'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >body of the message > > > This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider MailControl - www.blackspider.com

The birth of Henry Wells G SMART was registered in March quarter of 1900 ref Bedwelty 11a 91 In the 1901 census he shows as 'Harry SMART' age 13 months at RG13; Piece: 4933; Folio: 109; Page: 21 listed as the son of Fanny SMART, 44,widow, b Bristol, Toy Shop Keeper in Marine Street, Cwm. 5 older children were at home in the census and also two boarders age 35 and 77, both single. Is there a father shown on the birth certificate? It seems to be a big step from being a servant in a big house to running a shop. Jeff

Hi Jeff, I located same as yourself in 1901 but did find Fanny Smart the daughter of Fanny Smart in 1891,but there was no sign of Fanny the daughter in 1901, still awaiting response from Felicity on this. Regards Barbara

My GGMother (Fanny Smart) living in Marine Street Cwm was working at that time as a servant in a "big house" outside the village. I believe that the house was owned by a man named Gifford, but can find no obvious person in the censuses. I would love to know if anyone can help locate the house/Family for whom she worked as our family recollections have her having a child(Henry Wells Gifford Smart) by him in 1900. Henry's daughter tells that her father believed that Gifford may have been a titled gentleman and had some power, maybe ownershio of the mines.Gifford apparently converted some stables to a nursery school for his employees children and Henry spent his early years there. Any help very welcome Felicity Smart This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider MailControl - www.blackspider.com

Is anyone researching this line? I'd love to exchange information! Sharon Descendants of Lewis Williams 1 Lewis Williams b: Abt. 1825 in Llandeilofawr, Carmarthen, Wales d: Bet. 1881 - 1891 in Glamorgan, Wales .. +Ann b: Abt. 1829 in Nantyglo, Monmouth, Wales m: Abt. 1846 in Wales d: Bet. 1873 - 1881 in Glamorgan, Wales ..... 2 Ann Williams b: Abt. 1847 in Bedwellty, Monmouth, Wales ..... 2 George Williams b: Abt. 1848 in Bedwellty, Monmouth, Wales ......... +Elizabeth m: Bet. 1891 - 1901 ..... 2 William Williams b: 1851 in Rhymney, Monmouth, Wales ..... 2 Thomas Arthur Williams b: 23 Oct 1858 in Rhymney, Monmouth, Wales d: 28 Aug 1935 in 10 N.Broad St, West Hazleton, Luzerne Co, PA ......... +Mary Ellen Daniels b: 22 Jul 1858 in Welsh Hill, Susquehanna Co, PA m: 15 Oct 1890 d: 25 May 1940 in 10 N Broad St, West Hazleton, Luzerne Co, PA ..... 2 John Williams b: Abt. 1859 in Rhymney, Monmouth, Wales ......... +Elizabeth b: Abt. 1860 in St. David's, Pembroke, Wales ............ 3 James Lewis Williams b: Abt. 1883 in Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales d: 13 Oct 1955 in Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales ................ +Mary Jane d: Abt. 1952 in Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales ............ 3 Gwilym Williams b: Abt. 1885 in Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales d: Aft. 1955 ............ 3 Mary Ann Williams b: Abt. 1888 in Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales d: Aft. 1955 ............ 3 Elizabeth Williams b: Abt. 1891 in Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales d: Aft. 1955 ............ 3 Sarah Williams b: Abt. 1893 in Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales d: Aft. 1955 ............ 3 John H. Williams b: Abt. 1896 in Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales d: Aft. 1955 ..... 2 Mary Williams b: Abt. 1861 in Rhymney, Monmouth, Wales ......... +Thomas Jones b: Abt. 1860 in Llangendeirne, Carmarthen, Wales m: Abt. 1880 ............ 3 Ann Jones b: Abt. 1882 in Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales ............ 3 Sarah Jones b: Abt. 1884 in Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales ............ 3 Lewis William Jones b: 1891 in Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales ..... 2 Elizabeth Williams b: Abt. 1863 in Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales ..... 2 David Williams b: Abt. 1870 in Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales ..... 2 Paul Williams b: Abt. 1873 in Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Hello Felicity, After looking at the 1891 Census I now know that Fanny aged 44 in 1901 was the mother of Fanny, I have searched for Fanny the daughter in 1901 but was unable to locate her, had she married by this date. I also was unable to locate the child you mention or the man named Gifford. Regards Barbara

Hello Felicity, The only Fanny Smart that I located in 1901 living in Marine Street Cwm Ebbw Vale was aged 44, a widow and had the following children Lizzie age 15 Annie age 13 George age 11 Florrie age 9 Bertie age 5 Harry age 13 months. Have you a date and place of birth for Fanny, and has Henry's daughter obtained a birth certificate for him. Regards Barbara

In a message dated 8/30/2007 8:38:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jes1@ptdprolog.net writes: Are there available emigration records from Wales to the U.S. between 1839 and 1844? ====== The best that I know of are at _www.castlegarden.org_ (http://www.castlegarden.org) . Castle Garden was the main entry point for immigrants until Ellis Island opened in 1892. I found my GGrandparents who passed through there en route from Wales to Pennsylvania in 1879 and 1880. Regards, Cecil ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Are there available emigration records from Wales to the U.S. between 1839 and 1844? Thank you. Chris jes1@ptdprolog.net

Thank you for your response but no that isn't Mary. I appreciate your help. alice ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Ann, Thank you. I have ordered certificates from GRO before and agree. Its just that not knowing Wales various locations I was at a loss. And thank heavens they do have a "name" to insure you get the right one. I always hope and pray each time that I am only listing my true ancestors. I try and get as much verification as possible. Thanks again. Alice ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour