Hi Sylvia: I found the below in our list archives. Is this what you were referring to? I'll keep looking and see if I come up with anything else. Looks as if John is in this up to his neck, as it were, giggle, so maybe he needs to get the snorkle and wet suit out after all! Best, Sandi :) CNIDR Isearch-cgi 1.20.06 (File: 28) I wish I could tell you whether Thomas is real or not, but I don't know, either. I'm just shooting in the dark! I believe my work is pretty solid back to John, beyond that I have nothing but a folder with a big question mark on it and filled with speculative notes! The popular notion seems to be that John's father was a man named Thomas. I have yet to determine the source of this theory. As I indicated yesterday, the first American Moncrief document I have record of was a power of attorney made December 3, 1668, and proved June 15, 1669, by Thomas Moncreffe (an alderman of Londonderry). Rhonda, you are completely correct. Londonderry is a port city on the northern coast of Ireland. When James VI of Scotland succeeded Elizabeth I of England as James I in 1603, a formidable rebellion against English authority in northern Ireland was collapsing. The English government confiscated the lands of rebels ruthlessly and encouraged Englishmen and Scots to settle on them. A group of Lond! on merchants virtually took over the town of Derry, hence the name Londonderry. It became a place which attracted merchants from many parts of the British Isles, and it is certainly not surprising to find a man with an ancient Scottish name serving as an alderman in Londonderry in 1668 and trying to manage business interests in Virginia. I had assumed (since I had seen no evidence to the contrary) that Thomas was a Scotsman removed to Ireland. However, Sylvia posted yesterday (that) she thought Thomas of Londonderry was born in Ireland. And then along comes John Moncrief... Thomas Moncreffe may have sent him to Virginia to tend to the family's business interests. Certainly, John could hardly have avoided knowing Lawson (the man Thomas gives power of attorney to, in Virginia) even if he tried. Lawson's positions as justice and sheriff often required his presence at the courthouse. It is of interest that John on one occasion bought land in partnership with George Mosely. Lawson's second wife was the widow of William Mosely, and it is possible both George and William were members of a family with connections with the Moncriefs. It is also of interest that John named his oldest son Thomas, but the Moncriefs of Scotland so often named their sons Thomas, William, or John that one must use that kind of evidence cautiously. In fact, it is possible John's father was another Thomas Moncrief. Furthermore, it seems entirely possible (to me) that his father wasn't named Thomas, at all! All of this is, of course, speculati! ve. John may have been born in Virginia the son of parents of whom no record remains or he may have been born in Scotland. It should be noted that John Moncrief died in North Carolina four or five years before the first of the great Scotch-Irish emigrations from northern Ireland to British America began in 1717. A business connection or even some involvement in the Glorious Revolution may explain why he appeared in Virginia during the reign of William and Mary. And it's not much of a stretch to imagine his father having perhaps arrived stateside for either of the same reasons. That's why I find the "exiled" Thomas so appealing. I don't know whether he exists, or not, but it's just too darned neat a fit not to try to follow up on. The only notes we have on "exiled" Thomas, so far: First Generation in America ThomasMoncreiffe b 1610 Myerside, Perth, Scotland md1641 Lower Norfolk Co., Virginia d after 1650 Lower Norfolk Co., Virginia buried Lynnhaven Parish Church Cemetery, now under water. wife: Elizabeth 1 child John Moncrief wife Mary Thomas' brother was David. "Thomas was originally exiled to Orkney with his brother David for having kill ed a man named Jardine"... sorry, I'm paraphrasing since I couldn't get to my records last night, but I'm pretty sure I'm remembering correctly... John M. (by the way, Thanks, Deanna!) Problem is, I have no real source! However, in light of yesterdays preliminary findings, the note about the underwater cemetery certainly appears to have possibilities. The d.o.b. and date of marriage work for having a son (John) around 1650. The geography is right (Princess Anne County was formed in 1691 from Lower Norfolk County). And, Mary is the right name for the wife. Now, Deanna has graciously offered to forward the corroborating notations she has, as well as an address for Mr. Selby. Maybe, with a little luck, we'll be able to determine the source of his information. Rhonda, I don't mean to confuse things. I'm just thinking out loud (kind of an ugly process, isn't it?) I've never been on a mailing list before, and I don't know how to behave! If we're not supposed to try out ideas, somebody let me know. I can see where it might even be better just to exchange proven data. If I 've assumed too much, please let me know. Kindest regards, John