Melinda, Yes, it does. Thanks. By the way, I think the 'R' in Effie's name stands for Roam or Rohm, this according to a friend who happened across this info while researching one of her own lines. Anybody with info on this, I'll pass it on to Joy. And anyone know what happened to Charles, the son of Effie and Clifford? There are so many Charleses in this family I can't seem to keep track of them all! Thanks again, Melinda, and anyone else who can provide info. Marty "Melinda K. Elmore" wrote: > Marty-- > OK, here's another one from the Pulaski co obits: > > SEASE, C. R.-b. 63Y-d. MAY 29 1958-h/o OPAL-c. 1 CHARLES SEASE-s/o EFFIE R. > SEASE-OBIT DATE: MAY 29 1958(DXP) > > [C.R. SEASE was married to Opal, died 1958 aged 63, he was the son of Effie, > and he has a son named Charles. Does that add up with what you know?] > ================================================================== > on 1/15/01 12:43 PM, Byron L. Walter at bwalter@theramp.net wrote: > > > Dear Melinda, > > Thanks for more info on Effie. I did have some, but more is always > > appreciated. If my math is right, Effie would have been about 96-97 at the > > time > > of her death. If anyone else finds any more info on her or her husband > > Charles > > or her son Clifford, please let me know. I believe Charles was my Great > > Grandfather's younger brother. Charles, I think, ran a drug store in Dixon. > > I'm > > still trying to figure out all of the details on this family. Anybody with > > info on this please let me know. Thanks, > > Marty > > > > Melinda Elmore wrote: > > > >> This was on the Pulaski Co MO obits page > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~mopulask/obits59.htm > >> > >> SEASE, EFFIE ROWDEN-b. SEP 9 1872 DIXON MO-d. APR 5 1959-m. CHARLES SEASE-c. > >> 1 CLIFFORD SEASE-1 BRO, CHARLES HUTCHISON-OBIT DATE: APR 9 1959(DXP) > >> > >> Note: > >> [Effie Rowden Sease was married to Charles Sease. They had one child, > >> Clifford Sease. Effie had one (or perhaps one living) bro named Charles > >> Hutchison. Perhaps her mother¹s maiden name was Rowden and that was given > >> to her as a middle name or perhaps she was previously married to a Rowden.] > >> > >> In the Maries Co History books I also read a note where Effie Sease had > >> attended the funeral of the newspaper publisher in Vienna. > >> > >> > >> ==== MOMARIES Mailing List ==== > >> > >> ============================== > >> Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history > >> learning and how-to articles on the Internet. > >> http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library > > > > > > ==== MOMARIES Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > ============================== > > Search more than 150 million free records at RootsWeb! > > http://searches.rootsweb.com/ > > > > ==== MOMARIES Mailing List ==== > > ============================== > The only real-time collaboration tool that allows you and other family > members to create a FREE, password-protected family tree. > http://www.ancestry.com/oft/login.asp

Marty-- OK, here's another one from the Pulaski co obits: SEASE, C. R.-b. 63Y-d. MAY 29 1958-h/o OPAL-c. 1 CHARLES SEASE-s/o EFFIE R. SEASE-OBIT DATE: MAY 29 1958(DXP) [C.R. SEASE was married to Opal, died 1958 aged 63, he was the son of Effie, and he has a son named Charles. Does that add up with what you know?] ================================================================== on 1/15/01 12:43 PM, Byron L. Walter at bwalter@theramp.net wrote: > Dear Melinda, > Thanks for more info on Effie. I did have some, but more is always > appreciated. If my math is right, Effie would have been about 96-97 at the > time > of her death. If anyone else finds any more info on her or her husband > Charles > or her son Clifford, please let me know. I believe Charles was my Great > Grandfather's younger brother. Charles, I think, ran a drug store in Dixon. > I'm > still trying to figure out all of the details on this family. Anybody with > info on this please let me know. Thanks, > Marty > > Melinda Elmore wrote: > >> This was on the Pulaski Co MO obits page >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~mopulask/obits59.htm >> >> SEASE, EFFIE ROWDEN-b. SEP 9 1872 DIXON MO-d. APR 5 1959-m. CHARLES SEASE-c. >> 1 CLIFFORD SEASE-1 BRO, CHARLES HUTCHISON-OBIT DATE: APR 9 1959(DXP) >> >> Note: >> [Effie Rowden Sease was married to Charles Sease. They had one child, >> Clifford Sease. Effie had one (or perhaps one living) bro named Charles >> Hutchison. Perhaps her mother¹s maiden name was Rowden and that was given >> to her as a middle name or perhaps she was previously married to a Rowden.] >> >> In the Maries Co History books I also read a note where Effie Sease had >> attended the funeral of the newspaper publisher in Vienna. >> >> >> ==== MOMARIES Mailing List ==== >> >> ============================== >> Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history >> learning and how-to articles on the Internet. >> http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library > > > ==== MOMARIES Mailing List ==== > > > > ============================== > Search more than 150 million free records at RootsWeb! > http://searches.rootsweb.com/ >

Dear Melinda, Thanks for more info on Effie. I did have some, but more is always appreciated. If my math is right, Effie would have been about 96-97 at the time of her death. If anyone else finds any more info on her or her husband Charles or her son Clifford, please let me know. I believe Charles was my Great Grandfather's younger brother. Charles, I think, ran a drug store in Dixon. I'm still trying to figure out all of the details on this family. Anybody with info on this please let me know. Thanks, Marty Melinda Elmore wrote: > This was on the Pulaski Co MO obits page > http://www.rootsweb.com/~mopulask/obits59.htm > > SEASE, EFFIE ROWDEN-b. SEP 9 1872 DIXON MO-d. APR 5 1959-m. CHARLES SEASE-c. > 1 CLIFFORD SEASE-1 BRO, CHARLES HUTCHISON-OBIT DATE: APR 9 1959(DXP) > > Note: > [Effie Rowden Sease was married to Charles Sease. They had one child, > Clifford Sease. Effie had one (or perhaps one living) bro named Charles > Hutchison. Perhaps her mother¹s maiden name was Rowden and that was given > to her as a middle name or perhaps she was previously married to a Rowden.] > > In the Maries Co History books I also read a note where Effie Sease had > attended the funeral of the newspaper publisher in Vienna. > > > ==== MOMARIES Mailing List ==== > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history > learning and how-to articles on the Internet. > http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library

This was on the Pulaski Co MO obits page http://www.rootsweb.com/~mopulask/obits59.htm SEASE, EFFIE ROWDEN-b. SEP 9 1872 DIXON MO-d. APR 5 1959-m. CHARLES SEASE-c. 1 CLIFFORD SEASE-1 BRO, CHARLES HUTCHISON-OBIT DATE: APR 9 1959(DXP) Note: [Effie Rowden Sease was married to Charles Sease. They had one child, Clifford Sease. Effie had one (or perhaps one living) bro named Charles Hutchison. Perhaps her mother¹s maiden name was Rowden and that was given to her as a middle name or perhaps she was previously married to a Rowden.] In the Maries Co History books I also read a note where Effie Sease had attended the funeral of the newspaper publisher in Vienna.

List, This is a continuation of Rhoda Woody's letter to John & Sirilda Woody back in Missouri from Colorada in 1926. This is more about Oma the little girl with TB. Helen has a picture of her in her book about her father Jennings. She is holding a guitar and what a pretty young lady she was. April 7, 1926 Pueblo Colorado Our preacher called on Oma week before last and Easter Sunday his wife sent her a beautiful Easter lily. And another one of the ministers here called some time ago. They won't lack for anything that anyone can do for them. The Red Cross nurse has been here twice. She asked if they had plenty of bedding and if they had milk for Oma. The Red Cross had all of them go and be examined to see if they were tubercular. They said they were sound as a dollar. Oma is smart as a cricket and never complains but her condition is pretty bad as you already know. She has a hard fight to make and no one else can make it for her. I want you to encourage her all you can to stay in bed and eat and take her medicine. And don't say anything to her about coming back. They see to be well satisfied as they can be. George is a lot better than he was, he eats like a pig and plays and isn't near as nervous as he was when he first come. Jennings hasn't been able to find hardly any work yet, but I think it will open up when the weather gets good. I think it would be awful nice if all the folks would send Oma a nice postcard, a lot of them the same day. Write and tell me when you are going to send the cards so we can all send one one here too. She would have something to look at for a long time. She can hardly wait for the mailman to come to see if there are any letters. Rhoda DeVere---If you happen to be in the neighborhood of the Pendleton Cemetery, stop and see Oma's grave. If you listen real hard you might hear a guitar being played by little fingers.

LIST: This is a letter from Rhoda Woody to her uncle John Jefferson Woody and her aunt Martha Sirilda (Barnhart) Woody, April 7th, 1926 from Pueblo Colorado. Notice how important eggs, setting hens and gardens were to these people in these times. It was the difference between having anything to eat and doing without. April 7th, 1926 Pueblo Colorado Dear Aunt, Uncle & family. Will write you a letter have been wanting to write you for a long time but never got to it I suppose the older I get the more careless and neglectful I get about writing. We are tolerable well. I haven't been well this winter. I have had a cold all winter but I am about to get rid of it at last. For some reason it has been an awful bad winter for colds anyway. It was't that such a bad winter either. We have had awful bad weather for over two weeks though snow and awful cold too. It was below zero one night. It is still cloudy and damp but not cold.I am hoping after this week the weather will settle and it will be pretty. I haven't made any garden yet. they sowed celery seed and ordered 2500 cabbage plants and are getting them today. I think they are going to order onion plants to set about 1/4 acre too. Aunt Sirilda I guess you and Flossie have have lots of little chickens. I set my first hens yesterday, only I think I will send to Kansas and get my chickens already hatched. I am selling most of my eggs for setting eggs. Have been taking Oma fresh eggs too. So don't think I'll get many. I go to see Oma every few days. I guess she is mending some. I believe if she will do just what the Dr. say for to do she will get well. Fannie & Henry took her to a good doctor 2 weeks ago, he told her she would have to go to bed and stay there or she wouldn't get well. She is running a temperature every day. But I think the last few days she hasn't had any temperature. And she seemed awful nervous but she is better that way too. He gave her a tonic to give her an appetite. She won't eat much but she drinks a lot of milk both sweet and buttermilk. Me and Fannie take her fresh buttermilk and Fannie takes her a quart of sweet milk every day. They have lots of good friends here a good many strangers have called on her everybody is good to them. The women close around them send nice things they think she will eat. Rhoda. DeVere

Edward Bell born 16 Jul 1888 Maries Co Mo Died 17 Feb 1961 Rolla MO Married 24 Jan 1912 Lucy Ella Cook born MO (abt 1894) I have three children for them, but their obit indicates five. I have: Ernest F. born abt 1913 MO William A. born abt 1916 MO John F. born abt 1919 MO Edward Bell is the son of William Riley Bell and Rachel Davis. ------------------------------------------------ I would appreciate any info about the children or family including corrections. Regards-----Melinda

I don't know what happend, it came up for me. The direct link is http://www.rootsweb.com/~momaries/vies.htm Shirley Scott shirleyscott@juno.com The Scott Family: http://www.geocities.com/shirleyascott My Family Tree: http://www.angelfire.com/mo/winkeler/index.html On Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:21:31 -0500 "Steven Piper Piper" <BeckyPiper1@worldnet.att.net> writes: > Shirley, > I tried to lookup the Johann Viesmann history, and it said > "Sorry page > not found". > Steve ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Shirley, I tried to lookup the Johann Viesmann history, and it said "Sorry page not found". Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Shirley A Scott <shirleyscott@juno.com> To: <MOMARIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 3:08 PM Subject: [MOMARIES-L] Maries Co MOGenWeb Update > http://www.rootsweb.com/~momaries/maries.htm > > Johann G Viesmann descendants submitted by Terry L Woodard > John M Stokes Family History and Photo submitted by Jim Stokes > Farmer/Mary Doyel Family Photos submitted by Paula Doyle-Bicket > > Shirley Scott shirleyscott@juno.com > The Scott Family: http://www.geocities.com/shirleyascott > My Family Tree: http://www.angelfire.com/mo/winkeler/index.html > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > ==== MOMARIES Mailing List ==== > > > > ============================== > The only real-time collaboration tool that allows you and other family > members to create a FREE, password-protected family tree. > http://www.ancestry.com/oft/login.asp >

http://www.rootsweb.com/~momaries/maries.htm Johann G Viesmann descendants submitted by Terry L Woodard John M Stokes Family History and Photo submitted by Jim Stokes Farmer/Mary Doyel Family Photos submitted by Paula Doyle-Bicket Shirley Scott shirleyscott@juno.com The Scott Family: http://www.geocities.com/shirleyascott My Family Tree: http://www.angelfire.com/mo/winkeler/index.html ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Melinda, you wrote the following--- However, I have: John Henry Copeland Born: 1864 Died: 1932 in Pryor OK Married: 14 Mar 1886 To: Isabelle A. Coffey Born: 1864 Died: 1947 Vienna, Maries Co MO Could you give me more info about this John Henry Copeland? I have a John Bunyon Copeland born about 1823 married to a Elizabeth Michael about 1849. I have 8 children for them and one is John H. Copeland. Have no other info about him or his siblings.. Could this be John Henry Copeland who married Isabella A. Coffey? This is a branch off my ancestry tree, but like to get all the info that I can. thanks, JOyce Roth

Joyce--Thank you for writing. I would be interested in hearing more about your John Bunyon Copeland and who his kids are. The John Henry I wrote about below I show as being the son of: John Charles Copeland born 1832, served in the Union Army, son of Solomon Copeland JR. and Malinda Sample John Charles Copeland married Nancy Doyle. I would be interested in knowing who she is the daughter of, if anyone knows. I don't have dates on her. Regards, Melinda > Melinda, you wrote the following--- > > However, I have: > John Henry Copeland > Born: 1864 > Died: 1932 in Pryor OK > > Married: 14 Mar 1886 > To: Isabelle A. Coffey > Born: 1864 > Died: 1947 Vienna, Maries Co MO > > Could you give me more info about this John Henry Copeland? I have a John > Bunyon Copeland born about 1823 married to a Elizabeth Michael about 1849. I > have 8 children for them and one is John H. Copeland. Have no other info > about him or his siblings.. Could this be John Henry Copeland who married > Isabella A. Coffey? This is a branch off my ancestry tree, but like to get > all the info that I can.

----- Original Message ----- From: DeVere Whitaker <devere@onemain.com> To: Miller County <MOMILLER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 9:55 AM Subject: Pink Barnhart No. 2 > LIST: > > Here is another of the letters written to & from Colorado by Miller > County and Maries County people associated with the Woody > family. These letters are in a biography > written about her father Jennings Woody by Helen > Schantzmeyer. Jennings just > had his 96th birthday and is probably the oldest Woody living. > Drives where > ever he wants to go and knows all the short-cuts. > > This is probably the first letter I should have written it kinda lays out > the background to the others. I am doing this to show how things > were back then, in their own words. > > Colorado experience. > > My Sister Oma had TB. She was in Mt. Vernon, Mo. at the TB > sanatarium for a while. They didn't seem to help her there. So > about 1926. Mom, Me and my brother George, took Oma to > Pueblo, Colorado. The altitude there was suppose > to be good for people with TB. We went on a train. > We got on the Rock Island Train in Meta, for the long trip > to Colorado. We didn't have to transfer to another train, but I > believe our car was switched to another train somewhere along > the way. I can't remember any of the details of the train ride. > I can imagine what it was like for a mother with three children > and one of them sick with tuberculosis, to get on a train with > probably all the clothes you owned and I'm sure a few things > to start up housekeeping with and not knowing how long you > would be gone and what you would find when you got > there. I would think this would be a nightmare. > Grandma had help though, with George & Oma. Dad was a > young man by then and was grandma's shoulder to lean on. > We were there about a year. I did odd jobs there to help out. > We were back in Missouri when Oma died, March 23, 1927. > My brother George had epilipsy. > He was sick from when he was little on and gradually got worse. > Helen > > DeVere,--- P.S. Little Oma is buried at Pendleton Cemetery > not far from the old Woody homeplace. Most of the people I will > be writing about are there too. The Woody's take care of their own. > You will almost always find flowers on these graves. > The Woody's have always lived around where this cemetery > is and still do. If you said something bad about a Woody you > would have to whip my dad. Many a meal was put on our table > because John Woody would hire my dad to work for him on an old > threshing machine during harvest time. > >

This letter along with others to follow came about as a result of the Obit on Pink Barnhart and it touched a cord of memories. DeVere ----- Original Message ----- From: DeVere Whitaker <devere@onemain.com> To: Miller County <MOMILLER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 9:56 AM Subject: Pink Barnhart > LIST: > > Pink Barnhart and several people including the Woodys had moved to Colorado > to try and make a living around the Depression years. I am going to write > parts of some of the letters sent back here to Missouri form some of these > people, concerning Pink and from Pink himself. These letters are writen just > the way they came, spelling and all. These letters are in a biography about > the Woody family written by Helen Schanzmeyer. She is Jennings Woody's > daughter and like her father is a wonderful person. > > Quotes from letter written from Lou Woody to J.J. Woody in 1926. > Mr. J. J. Woody and family > Will ans your letter got several days ago. Shore was glad to hear from you > all and to get Baby picture but was sorry to hear for little Wayne getting > burnt so bad hope he gets all right. Well this leves us all well but Oma. > She is no better and i am afraid she never will be. She is lots porer than > she was and lots weaker. She looks afel bad. i shore have got the blues. > Oma no better and Jennings cant get no work. poor kid just hunts all the > time and cant find a thang to do. they is a man lives nex door to us cant > get work at all. his woman works and makes the liven. i guess we will spend > ever cent we have got and having nothing left. i dont know who wouldent have > the blues do you. i work all i can but it dont count much. i have washed > every day this week and i work for a lady 3 hours on Saturday morning get1 > dollar for 3 hours work you fet good pay pay here when you do work. Well you > wouldent hardly know little George he looks better than he ever did in his > life he is plum fat he eat three biskets for breakfast this morning he > hasent had any spells sence we came here he is seting here now a sanging > "Jesus Will Cary us Safely home" Pink says he is coming out here i shore do > wish he would come maby he would help us out sum i dont know what we do if > he dont come are Jennings don't get work i will do the best i can all i > can and that is all any body can do. it is afel prety weather here now will > ans soon. > from Lou and Children > Pueblo Colorado > > Will write some more of these letters. Pink makes it there!!!!. > > DeVere > >

Margaret, William Thomas Burgess was married to my cousin Nancy Benton (daughter of Hiram and Malinda Roberson Orton). Can you tell me any children or more that they had? Thank you, Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Margaret Mcclure <maggi2@goodnet.com> To: <MOMARIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 3:14 PM Subject: [MOMARIES-L] I blew it! > I really apologize, to many notes on the same page or simple mind, which > ever you choose. > > Which John H Copeland md Isabelle Coffey and which md Mary Finn? The latter > is the one in Pryor OK. > > Lucinda Moss was supposed to be md to W T Burgess but I have another record > showing his wife as Nancy l Benton?? > > Hope that makes more sense. Marty, I'm not even going to try for IL right > now, but I will look later. > Maggi > > > ==== MOMARIES Mailing List ==== > > > > ============================== > Shop Ancestry - Everything you need to Discover, Preserve & Celebrate > your heritage! > http://shop.myfamily.com/ancestrycatalog > >

Maggie-- I don't have info on a Copeland who married Lucinda Moss. However, I have: John Henry Copeland Born: 1864 Died: 1932 in Pryor OK Married: 14 Mar 1886 To: Isabelle A. Coffey Born: 1864 Died: 1947 Vienna, Maries Co MO I would appreciate any corrections. I'd like to hear about the other John Henry Copeland, too. Regards and Happy New Year----Melinda on 1/12/01 10:53 AM, Margaret Mcclure at maggi2@goodnet.com wrote: > Ok Ladies and Gentlemen, > It's been to quiet for a week or so, so I have a little problem. Which John > Henry Copeland md Isabelle Coffey and which one md Lucinda Moss? One of > them died in Pryor OK. > > Thank you all so much, > Maggi > > > ==== MOMARIES Mailing List ==== > > > > ============================== > The only real-time collaboration tool that allows you and other family > members to create a FREE, password-protected family tree. > http://www.ancestry.com/oft/login.asp >

At 06:13 PM 1/12/01 -0800, you wrote: Thanks Melinda, I'll let you know what I figure out. Maggi >Maggie-- >I don't have info on a Copeland who married Lucinda Moss. > >However, I have: >John Henry Copeland >Born: 1864 >Died: 1932 in Pryor OK > >Married: 14 Mar 1886 >To: Isabelle A. Coffey >Born: 1864 >Died: 1947 Vienna, Maries Co MO > >I would appreciate any corrections. I'd like to hear about the other John >Henry Copeland, too. >Regards and Happy New Year----Melinda > >on 1/12/01 10:53 AM, Margaret Mcclure at maggi2@goodnet.com wrote: > >> Ok Ladies and Gentlemen, >> It's been to quiet for a week or so, so I have a little problem. Which John >> Henry Copeland md Isabelle Coffey and which one md Lucinda Moss? One of >> them died in Pryor OK. >> >> Thank you all so much, >> Maggi >> >> >> ==== MOMARIES Mailing List ==== >> >> >> >> ============================== >> The only real-time collaboration tool that allows you and other family >> members to create a FREE, password-protected family tree. >> http://www.ancestry.com/oft/login.asp >> > > >==== MOMARIES Mailing List ==== > > > >============================== >Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history >learning and how-to articles on the Internet. >http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library > > > >

--------- Forwarded message ---------- From: TUREKE tureke@aol.com my family lived in marries co from 1889 untill present john crumb moved to newton co from greene co tn in 1871 and on to osage for a while and settled in marries co vienna twp . john and margaret . were my great grandparents. george washington crum. grandfather merried annie jones in newton co mo .1884 and moved to vienna a few years later .children of george and annie were gertrude crum merried euriart hull, orvle david crum merried leona hussey, jesse lee crum merried lois b pritchett, i am the 5 child of this family. my family moved from mo to oregon in 1946. john and margaret are buried in little flock cemetary john died in 1917 and margaret died in 1910 as far as i know annie crum died in 1901 and is burried in greely co co.george then merried melissa carroll leona husseys grandmother i hope this is clear asi am just learning how to research on the net. tureke@aol.com ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

OK. Let's confuse things some more. Anybody know if there is any connection between the Coffeys in Mo and those in Saline Co, IL? There was an Isabella Coffey there, married James Wesley Coffey. Just curious. Isabella is in my file, off my Kane branches somewhere. Marty Margaret Mcclure wrote: > Ok Ladies and Gentlemen, > It's been to quiet for a week or so, so I have a little problem. Which John > Henry Copeland md Isabelle Coffey and which one md Lucinda Moss? One of > them died in Pryor OK. > > Thank you all so much, > Maggi > > ==== MOMARIES Mailing List ==== > > ============================== > The only real-time collaboration tool that allows you and other family > members to create a FREE, password-protected family tree. > http://www.ancestry.com/oft/login.asp

I really apologize, to many notes on the same page or simple mind, which ever you choose. Which John H Copeland md Isabelle Coffey and which md Mary Finn? The latter is the one in Pryor OK. Lucinda Moss was supposed to be md to W T Burgess but I have another record showing his wife as Nancy l Benton?? Hope that makes more sense. Marty, I'm not even going to try for IL right now, but I will look later. Maggi