Brenda, your comments were indeed offensive. If you viewed then as such as shown by your "disclaimer", they were best left unsaid. I am the grandson of one of those "common mine workers" and I assure you, there was nothing "common" about my grandfather, and he definitly was not "poor human trash". He was a man working to support his family, as many did. Dave -B

Just my two cents: I didn't read Brenda's comments that way. I thought she was talking about the ordinary lives of ordinary people in a kind way. I think most of us doing genealogy are interest in our ordinary ancestors. My SW Missouri forbears were ordinary people, farmers, farm laborers, a preacher without a church, brakemen on the Frisco, a grocery-store owner. I don't yet know enough about them as human beings to know whether they were good people or not-so-good. (Although I found a newspaper article from Sarcoxie that said one had died drunk in jail at Pierce City. Not so good!) But they were ordinary people, and I'm proud of them for that. - Heather On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 DLB32838@aol.com wrote: > Brenda, your comments were indeed offensive. If you viewed then as such as > shown by your "disclaimer", they were best left unsaid. > I am the grandson of one of those "common mine workers" and I assure you, > there was nothing "common" about my grandfather, and he definitly was not > "poor human trash". He was a man working to support his family, as many did. > Dave -B

Dave; Being a child descended from miners myself; there was NOTHING offensive at all in what Brenda said. I have been reading her postings for almost two years now, she is way too much a lady to do anything offensive on-list, and probably off also! She was merely repeating what is common historical knowledge. Repeating how people were viewed by the government or their employers is not something that should be blamed on the historian. You owe her an apology! If you were offended, you should have responded off-line. However, you did not. Therefore, SHAME - ON - YOU! My dad's father, uncles, and several other family members died early deaths due to the lead poisoning. Sometimes the truth hurts. These people had to have work and did work under unsafe conditions. That is a matter of public record. My dad also is a nephew of one of the mine managers, and he is the first to admit this. We had a discussion on the list about two years ago now, in which people did not read through things and 'got their knickers in a twist!' This was also over the lead-poisoning in the area and how many people were exposed to it. In the 1960s and 1970s, Joplin had a very high, above average, rate of widowed women. Just stop by Messenger Towers sometime if you want to hear the truth about the lead in the area, etc.! They will also tell you how their families were treated by the 'Big Bosses.' History and fact are not always pleasant. Why be offended over the truth! Mine owners and our government did view these people as 'trash.' We know they were not. These mine workers were considered disposable and therefore there was not a lot of concern over their health and survival rate. It is sad to say, but the owners always had the thought that there was an endless supply of folks to replace the ones who got sick or died. Jerry Johnston ----- Original Message ----- From: <DLB32838@aol.com> To: <MOJASPER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 2:50 PM Subject: [MOJASPER] Miners > Brenda, your comments were indeed offensive. If you viewed then as such as > shown by your "disclaimer", they were best left unsaid. > I am the grandson of one of those "common mine workers" and I assure you, > there was nothing "common" about my grandfather, and he definitly was not > "poor human trash". He was a man working to support his family, as many did. > Dave -B > >

Our country has been built upon the backs and deaths of the "blue collar" workers. My father was such a man, he labored in the mines and factories of Missouri, Oklahoma and Arizona, the agricultural fields, packing houses, canneries and shipyards/welding/machine shops of California, and woods, logging and fishing industries of Oregon/Washington, whatever he could find where we were located to pay the bills and buy food. He and our family was other mens "trash" every where we lived, but their trash was someone else's treasure. My father, the labor of his love, the clothes on mine and my brother's back, the food on our table, lessons of self reliance and independance were our heritage and treasure. Our working lives were hard and poor. Child labor? I started working in the fields when I was age 7. It didn't hurt me, it helped me, back then I am sure I wasn't "worth my salt" but it taught me how to work, follow orders, discipline. God help these youngsters today that are handed everything and have no work ethic. Those who only ask when is payday and expect it without finding out what they have to do to earn that pay are in for a rude awakening one day. Several who have worked for me and said to me when they have been asked to do something . . ."that isn't a part of my job description" . . . have had their final paychecks drawn and been shown the door. In the early years of the mines, any of them, albeit coal, lead, zinc, copper, I do not believe it was fully established what the human health hazards were. Perhaps, as soon as the mine officials knew or even had an inkling they should have done more to protect the miners. Then one must look at how far advanced was technology to do so. The poisoning and environmental hazards were not known and people lived where they lived, did what they did, not knowing they lived on a time-bomb, or were shortening their and their families lives. Whose fault is that? Do you blame yourself for actions you have taken when your knowledge was lacking or bad? If the answer is "no" then the answer to the first is also "no". Lovetra You cannot put down those people of earlier generations who did the same things we all do today. They did whatever was necessary in whatever walk of life they navigate in, to the best of their abilities and to the limits of their individual circumstances, to house, feed, and cloth their families. I am grateful to all of my ancestors for all they have contributed to who, what, and where I am with my own problems to live and deal with, some good and some bad. There have been good and bad in these 65 years because of location, industry and time. Whether I am trash in someone elses eyes isn't important. If I am trash in my eyes is of my own choosing. I know that was my father's philosophy and its a pretty good one. Lovetra DLB32838@aol.com wrote: > Brenda, your comments were indeed offensive. If you viewed then as such as > shown by your "disclaimer", they were best left unsaid. > I am the grandson of one of those "common mine workers" and I assure you, > there was nothing "common" about my grandfather, and he definitly was not > "poor human trash". He was a man working to support his family, as many did. > Dave -B