Thanks for your input. Since I tend to believe the marriage occurred in Missouri rather than Kentucky, maybe I should focus my search on the counties surrounding Howard - -Randolph, Cooper, Boone, for example. I don't know how far back their marriage records go but I guess I will soon find out. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Gibbons" <c.n.gibbons@worldnet.att.net> To: "Pat & Julie Phillips" <pjphillips@socket.net>; <MOHOWARD-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 3:31 AM Subject: Re: [MOHOWARD-L] Misc. Families Found in Howard County Land Deeds > I think it is very possible that the record is somewhere else - for various > reasons. Sometimes people would record the marriage in other counties > because the county seat was closer - and it was up the the preacher to do > the recording. In the marriage books I have been looking at, I have found a > few which were recorded some years after they were done. If the minister > never recorded it, it would never be done. I think it unlikely that they > stopped somewhere along the way to make it legal because they would have > made it moral (probably) before they left; here again, if there was no > preacher around, they may very well have made it moral along the way. > > Carolyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat & Julie Phillips" <pjphillips@socket.net> > To: <MOHOWARD-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 8:04 PM > Subject: Re: [MOHOWARD-L] Misc. Families Found in Howard County Land Deeds > > > > Thanks so much for checking that out. I was afraid that there was no > > marriage record in Jessamine County, KY. > > > > Not having a lot of experience in researching records from the early > 1800's, > > I would be interested if anyone out there has any theories about the > > apparent lack of a marriage record in the "obvious" places. I have often > > wondered if the two families traveled to Missouri together from Kentucky > and > > maybe John W. & Sally got married somewhere along the way. How likely do > > you think it is that they were married in some county between Jessamine KY > > and Howard MO, and if they were migrating westward, did people back then > > take the time to make it "legal," by stopping by the nearest county seat > to > > file the marriage record? Maybe they never got legally married. . . but > > seeing as how they were strict Baptists, I find that hard to believe. The > > other option would be that their marriage record somehow got lost over > time. > > My records indicate that their oldest child, William Morris, was born in > > 1824, and Sally was born in 1805, so even if she was only 16 when she got > > married, that would put their year of marriage around 1821, which is still > > after the Morris family came to Missouri in about 1819. > > > > This may be a stupid question but what does "Bo: Nathaniel Morris" mean > > (shown below in Hopey Morris marriage record)? I show that Nathaniel & > > Nancy Williams Morris had a daughter named Hopey/Hopi. There was a Hopi > > Morris who married Allen Evans on Nov. 25, 1841 in Howard County, MO, so > it > > looks like she may have married a man in KY the first time then perhaps he > > died then she married the Evans after coming to MO. The strange thing is > > that the marriage record in MO shows her last name as "Morris" rather than > > "Smith," which I would have expected had she been a widow. Maybe there > were > > two different Hopey Morrises. > > > > What is the "Alford Williams Account Book" that you referred to below? Is > > that some kind of journal that Alford Williams actually kept during his > > lifetime? Does it still exist and have you actually seen it? > > > > Thanks a lot for all your help. > > > > Pat Phillips > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <starr460@insightbb.com> > > To: <MOHOWARD-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 4:44 PM > > Subject: Re: [MOHOWARD-L] Misc. Families Found in Howard County Land Deeds > > > > > > > There is no marriage in Jessamine Co., Ky., for John Williams Morris > s/o > > > Nathaniel & Nancy Williams Morris. I also checked the marriage records > > for the > > > adjoining counties of Fayette and Woodford as their home in Jessamine > was > > near > > > the small town of Keene. > > > > > > The only early Morris Marriages: > > > Thomas H. Smith - Hopey Morris - 23 Dec 1818 returned 27 Dec 1818. Bo: > > Nathaniel > > > Morris. Grooms father was Humphrey Smith of Indiana. > > > Henry Morris -Nancy Boatman. 7 Sep 1813. Bo: William Boatman. Sally > > Boatman, > > > mother of the bride. > > > > > > Alford Williams and family were founding members of the Mount Pleasant > > Church at > > > Keene (still going strong - > > > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/3333/index.html) > > > > > > Minutes of Mt Pleasant - 1st Sat in August 1819 - At the request of Bro > > > Nathaniel Morris himself and wife and "too" daughters Elizabeth and > Hopey > > are > > > granted letters of dismission. At the next meeting - Letters of > > dismission > > > granted to John Morris and Henry Trabue and sister Catherine Roper. The > > church > > > agreed to adjoin until tomorrow to inquire in the cause of Brother Roper > > (poor > > > Jesse Mims Roper - he seemed to be in and out of favor with this > church). > > > > > > The above seems to indicate that John Morris did not have a wife when > they > > left > > > Jessamine Co. > > > > > > Written in Alford Williams Account Book - "Alford Williams moved to Ky., > 9 > > Sep > > > 1782 & he moved to Mo., 7 May 1819, where he died 17 Feb 1835 > > > He lived the Calvanist Faith for 40 years. At his death he had 70 > > grandchildren > > > & 76 great-great grandchildren" > > > > > > Nancy Williams b 28 Feb 1779, wife of Nathaniel Morris - was the 4th > > child of > > > Alford & Elizabeth Price Williams. It seems this family joined Mount > > Ararat > > > church in Howard Co., Mo. > > > > > > If anyone is interested in records from the bluegrass counties of Ky. I > > will try > > > to help. > > > > > > Searching for Alford and Elizabeth Price Williams and his many children > > (12) > > > > > > Anne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beth Wilson wrote: > > > > > > > Found the probate for William Padgett, not sure it answers all your > > > > questions. The exact relationships are not given except for the widow. > > > > > > > > Howard County Probate Records > > > > > > > > Volume 2, page 160 > > > > November Term Court 1829 > > > > John W. Morris and Levan Evans, Adm. of the estate of William Padgett, > > dec. > > > > Hardin Padgett and Lucinda Padgett, over 14 yr., minors and heirs of > > William > > > > Padgett, dec. > > > > choose John W. Morris as their guardian. > > > > > > > > Volume 2, Page194 > > > > February Term Court 1830 > > > > Final Settlement for William Padgett, dec. > > > > Heirs: > > > > Widow, not named > > > > J.W. Morris, husband of Sally Padgett, one of heirs > > > > John Cunningham, husband of Delila Padgett. > > > > Mentions the 5 legatees, not all named. > > > > > > > > Volume 2, page 256 > > > > November Term Court 1830 > > > > John W. Morris guardian of the minor children of William Padgett, dec. > > > > presents accounts to the Court > > > > Money paid to: Hannah Padgett, widow of William; John and Delina > > Cunningham; > > > > Polly Padgett; John W. and Sally Morris; > > > > Money is due to Hardin and Lucinda Padgett. > > > > > > > > Beth > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Pat & Julie Phillips" <pjphillips@socket.net> > > > > To: "Beth Wilson" <beth@swilson.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 10:26 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [MOHOWARD-L] Misc. Families Found in Howard County Land > > Deeds > > > > > > > > > Beth, > > > > > > > > > > This is totally awesome. One of the entries below is for my > > > > > gr-gr-gr-gr-grandparents (John W. & Sally Morris): > > > > > > > > > > Volume L, page 502 > > > > > 29 October 1832 > > > > > Padgett, William, dec. > > > > > Heirs: John and Delina Cunningham; John W. and Sally Morris; Polly > > > > Padgett. > > > > > > > > > > I have never been able to determine when or where they got married > and > > I > > > > > also had questions about Sally's maiden name. I have seen her > listed > > as > > > > > Sally Padgett Robb, daughter of Henry Robb, which made it seem like > > > > Padgett > > > > > was her middle name. That didn't really make sense to me, but from > > what > > > > you > > > > > have found, it seems like maybe she was the daughter of this William > > > > > Padgett, and maybe Polly Padgett was her mother (or unmarried sister > > ?). > > > > I > > > > > looked in the Howard County Cemetery Records Book and there are only > 3 > > > > > Padgett entries listed, none of which are these. However, this is > so > > long > > > > > ago that it is not surprising that there is no record of their > > burial - > > > > they > > > > > were undoubtedly buried on the family farm under a tree or in the > > middle > > > > of > > > > > a pasture and perhaps the graves were never even marked. > > > > > > > > > > John W. Morris is the son of Nathaniel & Nancy Williams Morris and > the > > > > > grandson of Alfred & Elizabeth (Price) Williams. They came to > Howard > > > > > County, MO from Jessamine County, KY around 1819. I have never > found > > a > > > > > marriage record in Howard County for John W. & Sally, so I have > often > > > > > wondered if they got married in Jessamine County before coming to > MO? > > > > They > > > > > would have both been old enough to marry by 1819 so that is very > > possible. > > > > > I have not been able to research the marriage records from Jessamine > > > > County > > > > > to find anything on them. If you know of any special tips on how to > > best > > > > > find marriage information in KY I would appreciate it. I know > > Kentucky is > > > > > sort of like MO in that counties got merged and changed early on so > it > > is > > > > > sometimes hard to pinpoint where the records are. > > > > > > > > > > Are you actually going thru the original records and finding this > > stuff or > > > > > is this on CD/Microfilm and you are just going thru it all for grins > ? > > I > > > > > would be interested in finding out more about what you're doing and > > why. > > > > > Seems like you are always finding a lot of good information for > > people. I > > > > > also saw you refer to teaching a genealogy class - where do you do > > that? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for this little tidbit. Write back when you have a chance! > > > > > > > > > > Patrick Phillips > > > > > 463 Hamilton Meadows Drive > > > > > Fenton, MO 63026 > > > > > > > > > > >