I've found that there was a common migration route from Kentucky through Southern Illinois, before moving on to Missouri. Have read many accounts where a family stopped in Illinois "to raise a crop" before continuing on into Missouri. It's possible that a couple might have been married during the brief period that they were resting there. Or met a prospective spouse during the raising of the crop. Groups of people who were strangers when they started the trip, would have had time to get to know each other a little better, and perhaps do a little "sparking" during the raising of those crops. Also bear in mind, that a minister usually went from place to place on horseback, and might have recorded the marriage on whatever scrap of paper he had at hand. Stuffed into his pocket, until he could reach the nearest county seat, who knows what might have happened to that fragile piece of paper? It's a wonder so many of them DID get recorded. And marriages of girls between the ages of 11-14 was not unheard of, or even extremely rare on the frontier. I've got a record of a BOY being married at age 14 during that time period. In my own family, I have a family story of the couple getting married in the buggy, by a minister in Huntsville, because the bride was too shy to get out of the buggy. I have located the application for license in the county records, along with parental consent. I also have the marriage announcement in the paper. And the couple in question had a copy of the marriage license. BUT, it was apparently never recorded by the minister. There was no return ever filed in the county the license was obtained from, nor in the surrounding counties. And this was in the 1880's. Guess the minister was so confused he forgot to file a record of it. Kathy Bowlin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Gibbons" <c.n.gibbons@worldnet.att.net> To: <MOHOWARD-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 3:31 AM Subject: Re: [MOHOWARD-L] Misc. Families Found in Howard County Land Deeds > I think it is very possible that the record is somewhere else - for various > reasons. Sometimes people would record the marriage in other counties > because the county seat was closer - and it was up the the preacher to do > the recording. In the marriage books I have been looking at, I have found a > few which were recorded some years after they were done. If the minister > never recorded it, it would never be done. I think it unlikely that they > stopped somewhere along the way to make it legal because they would have > made it moral (probably) before they left; here again, if there was no > preacher around, they may very well have made it moral along the way. > > Carolyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat & Julie Phillips" <pjphillips@socket.net> > To: <MOHOWARD-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 8:04 PM > Subject: Re: [MOHOWARD-L] Misc. Families Found in Howard County Land Deeds > > > > Thanks so much for checking that out. I was afraid that there was no > > marriage record in Jessamine County, KY. > > > > Not having a lot of experience in researching records from the early > 1800's, > > I would be interested if anyone out there has any theories about the > > apparent lack of a marriage record in the "obvious" places. I have often > > wondered if the two families traveled to Missouri together from Kentucky > and > > maybe John W. & Sally got married somewhere along the way. How likely do > > you think it is that they were married in some county between Jessamine KY > > and Howard MO, and if they were migrating westward, did people back then > > take the time to make it "legal," by stopping by the nearest county seat > to > > file the marriage record? Maybe they never got legally married. . . but > > seeing as how they were strict Baptists, I find that hard to believe. The > > other option would be that their marriage record somehow got lost over > time. > > My records indicate that their oldest child, William Morris, was born in > > 1824, and Sally was born in 1805, so even if she was only 16 when she got > > married, that would put their year of marriage around 1821, which is still > > after the Morris family came to Missouri in about 1819. > > > > This may be a stupid question but what does "Bo: Nathaniel Morris" mean > > (shown below in Hopey Morris marriage record)? I show that Nathaniel & > > Nancy Williams Morris had a daughter named Hopey/Hopi. There was a Hopi > > Morris who married Allen Evans on Nov. 25, 1841 in Howard County, MO, so > it > > looks like she may have married a man in KY the first time then perhaps he > > died then she married the Evans after coming to MO. The strange thing is > > that the marriage record in MO shows her last name as "Morris" rather than > > "Smith," which I would have expected had she been a widow. Maybe there > were > > two different Hopey Morrises. > > > > What is the "Alford Williams Account Book" that you referred to below? Is > > that some kind of journal that Alford Williams actually kept during his > > lifetime? Does it still exist and have you actually seen it? > > > > Thanks a lot for all your help. > > > > Pat Phillips > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <starr460@insightbb.com> > > To: <MOHOWARD-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 4:44 PM > > Subject: Re: [MOHOWARD-L] Misc. Families Found in Howard County Land Deeds > > > > > > > There is no marriage in Jessamine Co., Ky., for John Williams Morris > s/o > > > Nathaniel & Nancy Williams Morris. I also checked the marriage records > > for the > > > adjoining counties of Fayette and Woodford as their home in Jessamine > was > > near > > > the small town of Keene. > > > > > > The only early Morris Marriages: > > > Thomas H. Smith - Hopey Morris - 23 Dec 1818 returned 27 Dec 1818. Bo: > > Nathaniel > > > Morris. Grooms father was Humphrey Smith of Indiana. > > > Henry Morris -Nancy Boatman. 7 Sep 1813. Bo: William Boatman. Sally > > Boatman, > > > mother of the bride. > > > > > > Alford Williams and family were founding members of the Mount Pleasant > > Church at > > > Keene (still going strong - > > > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/3333/index.html) > > > > > > Minutes of Mt Pleasant - 1st Sat in August 1819 - At the request of Bro > > > Nathaniel Morris himself and wife and "too" daughters Elizabeth and > Hopey > > are > > > granted letters of dismission. At the next meeting - Letters of > > dismission > > > granted to John Morris and Henry Trabue and sister Catherine Roper. The > > church > > > agreed to adjoin until tomorrow to inquire in the cause of Brother Roper > > (poor > > > Jesse Mims Roper - he seemed to be in and out of favor with this > church). > > > > > > The above seems to indicate that John Morris did not have a wife when > they > > left > > > Jessamine Co. > > > > > > Written in Alford Williams Account Book - "Alford Williams moved to Ky., > 9 > > Sep > > > 1782 & he moved to Mo., 7 May 1819, where he died 17 Feb 1835 > > > He lived the Calvanist Faith for 40 years. At his death he had 70 > > grandchildren > > > & 76 great-great grandchildren" > > > > > > Nancy Williams b 28 Feb 1779, wife of Nathaniel Morris - was the 4th > > child of > > > Alford & Elizabeth Price Williams. It seems this family joined Mount > > Ararat > > > church in Howard Co., Mo. > > > > > > If anyone is interested in records from the bluegrass counties of Ky. I > > will try > > > to help. > > > > > > Searching for Alford and Elizabeth Price Williams and his many children > > (12) > > > > > > Anne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beth Wilson wrote: > > > > > > > Found the probate for William Padgett, not sure it answers all your > > > > questions. The exact relationships are not given except for the widow. > > > > > > > > Howard County Probate Records > > > > > > > > Volume 2, page 160 > > > > November Term Court 1829 > > > > John W. Morris and Levan Evans, Adm. of the estate of William Padgett, > > dec. > > > > Hardin Padgett and Lucinda Padgett, over 14 yr., minors and heirs of > > William > > > > Padgett, dec. > > > > choose John W. Morris as their guardian. > > > > > > > > Volume 2, Page194 > > > > February Term Court 1830 > > > > Final Settlement for William Padgett, dec. > > > > Heirs: > > > > Widow, not named > > > > J.W. Morris, husband of Sally Padgett, one of heirs > > > > John Cunningham, husband of Delila Padgett. > > > > Mentions the 5 legatees, not all named. > > > > > > > > Volume 2, page 256 > > > > November Term Court 1830 > > > > John W. Morris guardian of the minor children of William Padgett, dec. > > > > presents accounts to the Court > > > > Money paid to: Hannah Padgett, widow of William; John and Delina > > Cunningham; > > > > Polly Padgett; John W. and Sally Morris; > > > > Money is due to Hardin and Lucinda Padgett. > > > > > > > > Beth > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Pat & Julie Phillips" <pjphillips@socket.net> > > > > To: "Beth Wilson" <beth@swilson.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 10:26 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [MOHOWARD-L] Misc. Families Found in Howard County Land > > Deeds > > > > > > > > > Beth, > > > > > > > > > > This is totally awesome. One of the entries below is for my > > > > > gr-gr-gr-gr-grandparents (John W. & Sally Morris): > > > > > > > > > > Volume L, page 502 > > > > > 29 October 1832 > > > > > Padgett, William, dec. > > > > > Heirs: John and Delina Cunningham; John W. and Sally Morris; Polly > > > > Padgett. > > > > > > > > > > I have never been able to determine when or where they got married > and > > I > > > > > also had questions about Sally's maiden name. I have seen her > listed > > as > > > > > Sally Padgett Robb, daughter of Henry Robb, which made it seem like > > > > Padgett > > > > > was her middle name. That didn't really make sense to me, but from > > what > > > > you > > > > > have found, it seems like maybe she was the daughter of this William > > > > > Padgett, and maybe Polly Padgett was her mother (or unmarried sister > > ?). > > > > I > > > > > looked in the Howard County Cemetery Records Book and there are only > 3 > > > > > Padgett entries listed, none of which are these. However, this is > so > > long > > > > > ago that it is not surprising that there is no record of their > > burial - > > > > they > > > > > were undoubtedly buried on the family farm under a tree or in the > > middle > > > > of > > > > > a pasture and perhaps the graves were never even marked. > > > > > > > > > > John W. Morris is the son of Nathaniel & Nancy Williams Morris and > the > > > > > grandson of Alfred & Elizabeth (Price) Williams. They came to > Howard > > > > > County, MO from Jessamine County, KY around 1819. I have never > found > > a > > > > > marriage record in Howard County for John W. & Sally, so I have > often > > > > > wondered if they got married in Jessamine County before coming to > MO? > > > > They > > > > > would have both been old enough to marry by 1819 so that is very > > possible. > > > > > I have not been able to research the marriage records from Jessamine > > > > County > > > > > to find anything on them. If you know of any special tips on how to > > best > > > > > find marriage information in KY I would appreciate it. I know > > Kentucky is > > > > > sort of like MO in that counties got merged and changed early on so > it > > is > > > > > sometimes hard to pinpoint where the records are. > > > > > > > > > > Are you actually going thru the original records and finding this > > stuff or > > > > > is this on CD/Microfilm and you are just going thru it all for grins > ? > > I > > > > > would be interested in finding out more about what you're doing and > > why. > > > > > Seems like you are always finding a lot of good information for > > people. I > > > > > also saw you refer to teaching a genealogy class - where do you do > > that? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for this little tidbit. Write back when you have a chance! > > > > > > > > > > Patrick Phillips > > > > > 463 Hamilton Meadows Drive > > > > > Fenton, MO 63026 > > > > > > > > > > > >