Some of the pre-Vatican II Church laws that were in effect may account for some of the issues you are encountering. The marriages contracted civilly would have had a license. Civil marriages could be "blessed" and appear in the sacramental register of the parish for the date of the church sacrament. There has always been "confidential" marriage in which no public record is generated. That remains true today in California. Ellen Georgia Clark <georgia@corpsie.com> wrote: >Dear Sharon, > >There is information about where to inquire about divorce records (as well as other records) on Dave Lossos' website for St. Louis Genealogy: > >http://genealogyinstlouis.accessgenealogy.com/dluseful.htm > >The St. Louis Public Library has indices for marriages in ST. Louis but it seems that not all marriages that took place in a Catholic Church show up on the index. At least that has been my experience recently. > >http://www.slpl.lib.mo.us/libsrc/geneinfo.htm > >Click on item # 5 to see what is available and # 13 to email the library ( Reference Desk). > >Georgia > >SReif1956@comcast.net wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I learned that my grandfather was married once before he married my grandmother in 1924. I even have a photo of the "happy couple" that was taken in St. Louis, so I was told. But, here's the dilemma. Most of the members of my family think that Grandpa did not divorce this woman. They were told that she simply did not like living away from her home and parents, so he "sent her packing", and was never heard from again. >> >> I have not yet found a wedding date from church records, but I am ordering a few films from St. Stephens of Hungary and St. Mary of Victories (since these were the Hungarian parishes of the time). Is there a city index of divorces on file with the clerk's office? I was wondering if just maybe there was one that I could cut some time off my research. >> >> The story goes that when my grandmother was told that she was to die of cancer, the visiting priest said that she needed to renounce my grandfather for his first "unholy" marriage. She refused (but rumor has it that she did rip up her marriage license to Grandpa in a fit of rage one day). He asked if she had attended mass every Sunday. She said that she spent all her time through the years getting the 10 kids ready for mass, she did not have time for herself, but prayed at home. The priest told her that she would go to hell for these decisions of hers. She replied, "Father, I'll see you there!". >> >> So, you see, I'd really like to know if dear Grandpa deserved this kind of insensitive thinking. I'd like to think that he had the good sense to get a legal separation from this woman. But I do not know whether they even got married in a church, although this woman is decked out in a fine wedding gown in the photo. I do not want to mention her name for her privacy, but it is known to the family. >> >> In the early 1920s what were the rules in St. Louis for divorces and separations? Could you just walk away from a marriage, even if it only lasted a few months? Lots of questions to ask and research to do here. >> >> Would appreciate anyone's knowledge in this area. Thanks, >> >> Sharon Bognar Reif >> >> ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== >> For tips on researching St. Louis Church Records: http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/churchrecords.htm > > >==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== >To ask for a lookup or volunteer to do acts of genealogical kindess, visit Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness at http://www.RAOGK.org. > > __________________________________________________________________ Thank you for using Netscape.

Hi, Ellen I am interested in your note about a civil marriage being blessed. Can you expand on that? I may have a couple who fit into this category. They raised all their children as Catholic. But they were married by a Justice of the Peace. It was 1879 when the civil marriage took place. I think others on the list may also like more info on this if you have it. Thanks! Laura ----- Original Message ----- From: <enalibof@netscape.net> To: <MO-STLOUIS-METRO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [StL-Metro] Finding possible divorce records > > > Some of the pre-Vatican II Church laws that were in effect may account for some of the issues you are encountering. > The marriages contracted civilly would have had a license. Civil marriages could be "blessed" and appear in the sacramental register of the parish for the date of the church sacrament. There has always been "confidential" marriage in which no public record is generated. That remains true today in California. > Ellen > > > > > > > > > Georgia Clark <georgia@corpsie.com> wrote: > > >Dear Sharon, > > > >There is information about where to inquire about divorce records (as well as other records) on Dave Lossos' website for St. Louis Genealogy: > > > >http://genealogyinstlouis.accessgenealogy.com/dluseful.htm > > > >The St. Louis Public Library has indices for marriages in ST. Louis but it seems that not all marriages that took place in a Catholic Church show up on the index. At least that has been my experience recently. > > > >http://www.slpl.lib.mo.us/libsrc/geneinfo.htm > > > >Click on item # 5 to see what is available and # 13 to email the library ( Reference Desk). > > > >Georgia > > > >SReif1956@comcast.net wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> I learned that my grandfather was married once before he married my grandmother in 1924. I even have a photo of the "happy couple" that was taken in St. Louis, so I was told. But, here's the dilemma. Most of the members of my family think that Grandpa did not divorce this woman. They were told that she simply did not like living away from her home and parents, so he "sent her packing", and was never heard from again. > >> > >> I have not yet found a wedding date from church records, but I am ordering a few films from St. Stephens of Hungary and St. Mary of Victories (since these were the Hungarian parishes of the time). Is there a city index of divorces on file with the clerk's office? I was wondering if just maybe there was one that I could cut some time off my research. > >> > >> The story goes that when my grandmother was told that she was to die of cancer, the visiting priest said that she needed to renounce my grandfather for his first "unholy" marriage. She refused (but rumor has it that she did rip up her marriage license to Grandpa in a fit of rage one day). He asked if she had attended mass every Sunday. She said that she spent all her time through the years getting the 10 kids ready for mass, she did not have time for herself, but prayed at home. The priest told her that she would go to hell for these decisions of hers. She replied, "Father, I'll see you there!". > >> > >> So, you see, I'd really like to know if dear Grandpa deserved this kind of insensitive thinking. I'd like to think that he had the good sense to get a legal separation from this woman. But I do not know whether they even got married in a church, although this woman is decked out in a fine wedding gown in the photo. I do not want to mention her name for her privacy, but it is known to the family. > >> > >> In the early 1920s what were the rules in St. Louis for divorces and separations? Could you just walk away from a marriage, even if it only lasted a few months? Lots of questions to ask and research to do here. > >> > >> Would appreciate anyone's knowledge in this area. Thanks, > >> > >> Sharon Bognar Reif > >> > >> ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > >> For tips on researching St. Louis Church Records: http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/churchrecords.htm > > > > > >==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > >To ask for a lookup or volunteer to do acts of genealogical kindess, visit Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness at http://www.RAOGK.org. > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Thank you for using Netscape. > > > ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > If you are researching the Irish in St. Louis, you might want to have a look at Diane Shaw's websites: http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/Irshnstl.htm and http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/KerryPatch.htm >