Jim, My great aunts never let us stand in front of the windows at night....but never told us why. I don't think I need to worry about gunshots in my direction, unless I am in a bad part of town where everyone could be a target regardless of your name. One of my great aunts told us that there were nights she never slept because of fear of "someone" who might come calling at night for her husband. In Chicago, Joey "the Clown" Lombardo was not a band leader...just a leader. Jimmy "the Man" Marcello (who happens to be the father-in-law of my friend) and the Calabrese brothers all considered themselves leaders. Many of my deceased relatives considered themselves "leaders" which is why they did not make many friends of other "leaders". Seems people just did not want to play nice in the 20s and 30s. My mother could tell stories from her days as a kid, and the whispers of relatives about other relatives, and who the kids should not follow down the street, etc. Some young males of the family dressed very well, and everyone knew how they got the money to pay for those new threads, and the fancy cigarettes that they smoked. My grandfather and his brothers went for a joy ride one evening with their produce truck, returning in the wee hours of the morning with bullet holes down the side of the truck. Rumor has it that my gr grandmother gave her 6 boys "what for" and told ! them th ey'd be 6 feet under like their father if they kept up those kind of excursions. Some relatives had elaborate funerals (one story written about a cousin who had $20,000 in flowers at the event), and others had just screaming mourners and prcessions of old women in long black veils, which was the fashion in the old Sicilian families. Widows wore black for years after the death of their spouses, and once someone died, no one spoke of them again, but plenty made visits to the gravesites in Calvary, and still do. All that's left are the old photos of "the gang", some pieces of clothing and Uncle Tony's handguns (a 38 and a 45) now in the hands of a cousin who keeps them under lock and key. Once in awhile, stories are told, and then the arguements start about "that's not what really happened!", then the hush, and remarks about how we need to keep those stories from circulating because those deceased members of the family were "not really at fault, just happened to get in the way of the sheriff", or he "hung out with the wrong folks", or "when you are hungry you can be forced to do desperate things". La Familia still supports it's members years after they are dead and gone, regardless of what the newpapers and death certificates state....they were all innocent....so to speak. No such thing as bad apples, just unfortunate decisions that were made by persons not thinking straight, according to the older family members. and the comment I like the most, "the guy was not very fair and w! as goin g to get it anyway, might as well have been then rather than later." Then a long hush, and the young deceased are not spoken about again,,,,,until the next brave and curious family member happens to bring up the subject again. Now, the familia is as normal as any Smith or Jones on the block....at least I think so. S. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "JAMES O BRASHER" <jims505@msn.com> > Hi S.: > > I am using only the initial to your first name only because you may need > anonymity to conceal your identity. Having said this, you are granted full > celebrity status as a royal figure and relative of the St Louis underworld, a > position I thought only myself and one other very famous figure on the list > occupied. > > I wonder if this special status garners us any special awards, maybe a Mayor's > banquet, or perhaps a governor's Ball. Darn, it sure is pesky being so famous. I > certainly recognize your family names. One of my family names was, William the > "Bow Wow," who liked gambling, Horse racing, illegal wire services and illicit > liquor, among other things. > > I too have been following a bit of the doings in Chicago, off and on, and > noticed the name "Lombardo." Wasn't he a band leader back in the 1940s? > > I part with this advice; if you hear gun shots, immediately drop to the floor, > it always pays to be vigilant.----Jim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: SReif1956@comcast.net<mailto:SReif1956@comcast.net> > To: mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 7:18 AM > Subject: Re: [MO-STLOUIS-METRO] City of St. Louis -High andBiddleStreetSaloon > > > I'll chime in on this conversation....my ancestors....all deceased by > now...were members of the Black Hand. My great uncle was known as "Tony the > Hand". I have many news articles on the familia. Vince Spicuzza and Tony Russo > were cousins of my grandfather. A number of cases regarding shootings, > extortion, etc. involved familia. Most of the time they just wanted to enjoy > their fruit and produce businesses, however, some people thought it might be > nice to use the trucks in the evening hours to transport other goods. An uncle > of mine was shot in the kidney as mistaken identity....his brother was meant for > the bullet. Lots of stories to tell with this group, and many were taken to the > grave, I am sure. The list of our family names goes on: Busalaki (Busalacchi), > Russo, Spicuzza, Bova, Mercurio, Gelardi, Giardina, Lombardo, Ciantro, Longo, > Catanzaro, Salerno, etc. La Familia in St. Louis is all legitimate now, rest > assured. > > I am understanding and following the federal court case in Chicago with the > current Lombardo/Calabrese/Marcello families going on as we speak. Too bad some > of these guys could not find another line of work. > > SReif > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: "JAMES O BRASHER" <jims505@msn.com<mailto:jims505@msn.com>> > > Kathy: > > > > Just as an item of information, I would say that the Black hand group was > then > > known as today's mafia. Al Capone imported a group of folks from Italy and > they > > were named the Green ones, because they were greenhorns fresh off the boat > from > > Sicily. It was their job to take over the rackets in southern Illinois, but > did > > not have much luck because they forgot to ask the Irish who were firmly > > established in the area. Tis a very interesting story with much gore, > murder, > > blood and heart ache for these innocents who had the very same thoughts of > > success. Needless to say, they were not at all welcomed to the neighborhood > of > > St Louis and had to be escorted out of St Louis by the city's finest. > Popular > > names connected to the Green Ones were Russo and Spicuzza.----Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Kathy > Greifzu<mailto:kgreifzu@charter.net<mailto:kgreifzu@charter.net>> > > To: > mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stl > ouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com>> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:50 PM > > Subject: Re: [MO-STLOUIS-METRO] City of St. Louis -High > andBiddleStreetSaloon > > > > > > Yeah, the article is pretty interesting. It does say this: > > "St. Louis detectives in making their identification stated that the > > presumption was that Rocco had incurred the disfavor of an Italian group > in > > his neighborhood, probably in matters concerned with bootlegging, and had > > been lured to the Illinois side on a purported tour of various roadhouses > on > > the Pontoon road." > > > > Someone called the undertaker and said, "Rocco is dead in Mitchell, Ill.," > > was the message. "Get the body and give him a good send-off." > > > > There were three shootings prior to his... all Italian fella's. The last > > sentence of the one article says "The police also assert that of late a > > black-hand group has been active in its extortion practices against > > bootleggers and Rocco may have fallen victim to their animosity." > > > > I read someplace else about how they use to make the saloon guys give them > > part of their profits. > > Kathy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "JAMES O BRASHER" > <jims505@msn.com<mailto:jims505@msn.com<mailto:jims505@msn.com%3Cmailto:jims505@ > msn.com>>> > > To: > <mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-st > louis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com>>> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:40 PM > > Subject: Re: [MO-STLOUIS-METRO] City of St. Louis -High and > > BiddleStreetSaloon > > > > > > Hi Kathy: > > > > You may want to remember that this area we are looking at, was the area > that > > The Kerry Patch and little Italy were adjacent to each other. I'm sure it > > wasn't My McQuillens who got uncle Mariano, but it might have been Al > Capone > > on one of his visits to St Louis during his attempt at taking over the > area > > when he wouldn't even use his real name for fear of getting rubbed out by > > those Irish guys.----Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Kathy > > > Greifzu<mailto:kgreifzu@charter.net<mailto:kgreifzu@charter.net<mailto:kgreifzu@ > charter.net%3Cmailto:kgreifzu@charter.net>>> > > To: > > > mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stl > <mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cm > ailto:mo-stl> > > > ouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:ouis-metro > @rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com>>> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 3:27 PM > > Subject: Re: [MO-STLOUIS-METRO] City of St. Louis -High and > > BiddleStreetSaloon > > > > > > Wow, what a coincidence. My great uncle Mariano Rocca (Rocco) owned a > > saloon at 9th and Biddle in 1924. I have no idea what the name was nor > do > > I > > have any information about it other than it was named in an article > about > > his death when he was killed in a bootlegging incident in May of 1924. > I > > have front page articles concerning his death from both the St. Louis > Post > > Dispatch and the Globe Democrat. If anyone knows of this saloon, I > would > > love to know more about it. > > > > Thanks, > > Kathy Greifzu > > > > > kgreifzu@charter.net<mailto:kgreifzu@charter.net<mailto:kgreifzu@charter.net%3Cm > <mailto:kgreifzu@charter.net%3Cmailto:kgreifzu@charter.net%3Cmailto:kgreifzu@cha > rter.net%3Cm> > > ailto:kgreifzu@charter.net>> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > > <SaeeIa@aol.com<mailto:SaeeIa@aol.com<mailto:SaeeIa@aol.com%3Cmailto:SaeeIa@aol< > mailto:SaeeIa@aol.com%3Cmailto:SaeeIa@aol.com%3Cmailto:SaeeIa@aol.com%3Cmailto:S > aeeIa@aol>. > > com>>> > > To: > > > <mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-st > <mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cm > ailto:mo-st> > > > louis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:louis-met > ro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com>>>> > > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 7:58 PM > > Subject: Re: [MO-STLOUIS-METRO] City of St. Louis -High and Biddle > > StreetSaloon > > > > > > > There was a New York Hotel and Saloon at 9th and Biddle, in the > 1870s. > > I > > > don't know if its what you're looking for. It was operated, for some > > > time, by > > > Matthais Bader, my ggrandfather. There was another, earlier, on what > > was > > > at > > > the time called main street, but I've not yet learned the name. > > > > > > Madelyn B > > > > > > ========Original Message======== Subj: Re: [MO-STLOUIS-METRO] > City > > of > > > St. Louis -Tracking addresses Date: 6/18/2007 3:16:03 P.M. Central > > > Daylight > > > Time From: > > > _jims505@msn.com<mailto:_jims505@msn.com<mailto:_jims505@msn.com%3Cmailto:_jims5 > <mailto:_jims505@msn.com%3Cmailto:_jims505@msn.com%3Cmailto:_jims505@msn.com%3Cm > ailto:_jims5> > > 05@msn.com<mailto:05@msn.com>>>_ > > > > > (mailto:jims505@msn.com<mailto:jims505@msn.com<mailto:jims505@msn.com%3Cmailto:j > <mailto:jims505@msn.com%3Cmailto:jims505@msn.com%3Cmailto:jims505@msn.com%3Cmail > to:j> > > ims505@msn.com<mailto:ims505@msn.com>>>) To: > > > > > > _dpn@mohistory.org<mailto:_dpn@mohistory.org<mailto:_dpn@mohistory.org%3Cmailto< > mailto:_dpn@mohistory.org%3Cmailto:_dpn@mohistory.org%3Cmailto:_dpn@mohistory.or > g%3Cmailto>: > > _dpn@mohistory.org<mailto:_dpn@mohistory.org>>>_ > > > > > > (mailto:dpn@mohistory.org<mailto:dpn@mohistory.org<mailto:dpn@mohistory.org%3Cma > <mailto:dpn@mohistory.org%3Cmailto:dpn@mohistory.org%3Cmailto:dpn@mohistory.org% > 3Cma> > > ilto:dpn@mohistory.org>>) , > > > > > _mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:_mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:_mo< > mailto:_mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:_mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3C > mailto:_mo>- > > > stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:_mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:stloui > s-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:_mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com>>>_ > > > > > > > > (mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailt > <mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cm > ailt> > > o:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootswebcom>>) > > Sent on: > > > Dennis: > > > > > > Would it be possible to find what the exact address of the High and > > > Biddle > > > Street Saloon might have been in 1920? I think in a more modern time > > > period it > > > may have been on the corner of 11th and Biddle, but I'm not > > sure.----Jim > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.c > <mailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@ > rootsweb.c> > > > om<mailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-reques > <mailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-reques> > > t@rootsweb.com<mailto:t@rootsweb.com>>> > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > > of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.c > <mailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@ > rootsweb.c> > > om> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body > > of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.c > om> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.c > om> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message