I'll chime in on this conversation....my ancestors....all deceased by now...were members of the Black Hand. My great uncle was known as "Tony the Hand". I have many news articles on the familia. Vince Spicuzza and Tony Russo were cousins of my grandfather. A number of cases regarding shootings, extortion, etc. involved familia. Most of the time they just wanted to enjoy their fruit and produce businesses, however, some people thought it might be nice to use the trucks in the evening hours to transport other goods. An uncle of mine was shot in the kidney as mistaken identity....his brother was meant for the bullet. Lots of stories to tell with this group, and many were taken to the grave, I am sure. The list of our family names goes on: Busalaki (Busalacchi), Russo, Spicuzza, Bova, Mercurio, Gelardi, Giardina, Lombardo, Ciantro, Longo, Catanzaro, Salerno, etc. La Familia in St. Louis is all legitimate now, rest assured. I am understanding and following the federal court case in Chicago with the current Lombardo/Calabrese/Marcello families going on as we speak. Too bad some of these guys could not find another line of work. SReif -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "JAMES O BRASHER" <jims505@msn.com> > Kathy: > > Just as an item of information, I would say that the Black hand group was then > known as today's mafia. Al Capone imported a group of folks from Italy and they > were named the Green ones, because they were greenhorns fresh off the boat from > Sicily. It was their job to take over the rackets in southern Illinois, but did > not have much luck because they forgot to ask the Irish who were firmly > established in the area. Tis a very interesting story with much gore, murder, > blood and heart ache for these innocents who had the very same thoughts of > success. Needless to say, they were not at all welcomed to the neighborhood of > St Louis and had to be escorted out of St Louis by the city's finest. Popular > names connected to the Green Ones were Russo and Spicuzza.----Jim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kathy Greifzu<mailto:kgreifzu@charter.net> > To: mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:50 PM > Subject: Re: [MO-STLOUIS-METRO] City of St. Louis -High andBiddleStreetSaloon > > > Yeah, the article is pretty interesting. It does say this: > "St. Louis detectives in making their identification stated that the > presumption was that Rocco had incurred the disfavor of an Italian group in > his neighborhood, probably in matters concerned with bootlegging, and had > been lured to the Illinois side on a purported tour of various roadhouses on > the Pontoon road." > > Someone called the undertaker and said, "Rocco is dead in Mitchell, Ill.," > was the message. "Get the body and give him a good send-off." > > There were three shootings prior to his... all Italian fella's. The last > sentence of the one article says "The police also assert that of late a > black-hand group has been active in its extortion practices against > bootleggers and Rocco may have fallen victim to their animosity." > > I read someplace else about how they use to make the saloon guys give them > part of their profits. > Kathy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JAMES O BRASHER" <jims505@msn.com<mailto:jims505@msn.com>> > To: <mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:40 PM > Subject: Re: [MO-STLOUIS-METRO] City of St. Louis -High and > BiddleStreetSaloon > > > Hi Kathy: > > You may want to remember that this area we are looking at, was the area that > The Kerry Patch and little Italy were adjacent to each other. I'm sure it > wasn't My McQuillens who got uncle Mariano, but it might have been Al Capone > on one of his visits to St Louis during his attempt at taking over the area > when he wouldn't even use his real name for fear of getting rubbed out by > those Irish guys.----Jim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kathy > Greifzu<mailto:kgreifzu@charter.net<mailto:kgreifzu@charter.net>> > To: > mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stl > ouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 3:27 PM > Subject: Re: [MO-STLOUIS-METRO] City of St. Louis -High and > BiddleStreetSaloon > > > Wow, what a coincidence. My great uncle Mariano Rocca (Rocco) owned a > saloon at 9th and Biddle in 1924. I have no idea what the name was nor do > I > have any information about it other than it was named in an article about > his death when he was killed in a bootlegging incident in May of 1924. I > have front page articles concerning his death from both the St. Louis Post > Dispatch and the Globe Democrat. If anyone knows of this saloon, I would > love to know more about it. > > Thanks, > Kathy Greifzu > > kgreifzu@charter.net<mailto:kgreifzu@charter.net<mailto:kgreifzu@charter.net%3Cm > ailto:kgreifzu@charter.net>> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > <SaeeIa@aol.com<mailto:SaeeIa@aol.com<mailto:SaeeIa@aol.com%3Cmailto:SaeeIa@aol. > com>>> > To: > <mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-st > louis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com>>> > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 7:58 PM > Subject: Re: [MO-STLOUIS-METRO] City of St. Louis -High and Biddle > StreetSaloon > > > > There was a New York Hotel and Saloon at 9th and Biddle, in the 1870s. > I > > don't know if its what you're looking for. It was operated, for some > > time, by > > Matthais Bader, my ggrandfather. There was another, earlier, on what > was > > at > > the time called main street, but I've not yet learned the name. > > > > Madelyn B > > > > ========Original Message======== Subj: Re: [MO-STLOUIS-METRO] City > of > > St. Louis -Tracking addresses Date: 6/18/2007 3:16:03 P.M. Central > > Daylight > > Time From: > _jims505@msn.com<mailto:_jims505@msn.com<mailto:_jims505@msn.com%3Cmailto:_jims5 > 05@msn.com>>_ > > (mailto:jims505@msn.com<mailto:jims505@msn.com<mailto:jims505@msn.com%3Cmailto:j > ims505@msn.com>>) To: > > > _dpn@mohistory.org<mailto:_dpn@mohistory.org<mailto:_dpn@mohistory.org%3Cmailto: > _dpn@mohistory.org>>_ > > > (mailto:dpn@mohistory.org<mailto:dpn@mohistory.org<mailto:dpn@mohistory.org%3Cma > ilto:dpn@mohistory.org>>) , > > _mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:_mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:_mo- > stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:_mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com>>_ > > > > (mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailt > o:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootswebcom>>) > Sent on: > > Dennis: > > > > Would it be possible to find what the exact address of the High and > > Biddle > > Street Saloon might have been in 1920? I think in a more modern time > > period it > > may have been on the corner of 11th and Biddle, but I'm not > sure.----Jim > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.c > om<mailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-reques > t@rootsweb.com>> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.c > om> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Hi S.: I am using only the initial to your first name only because you may need anonymity to conceal your identity. Having said this, you are granted full celebrity status as a royal figure and relative of the St Louis underworld, a position I thought only myself and one other very famous figure on the list occupied. I wonder if this special status garners us any special awards, maybe a Mayor's banquet, or perhaps a governor's Ball. Darn, it sure is pesky being so famous. I certainly recognize your family names. One of my family names was, William the "Bow Wow," who liked gambling, Horse racing, illegal wire services and illicit liquor, among other things. I too have been following a bit of the doings in Chicago, off and on, and noticed the name "Lombardo." Wasn't he a band leader back in the 1940s? I part with this advice; if you hear gun shots, immediately drop to the floor, it always pays to be vigilant.----Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: SReif1956@comcast.net<mailto:SReif1956@comcast.net> To: mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 7:18 AM Subject: Re: [MO-STLOUIS-METRO] City of St. Louis -High andBiddleStreetSaloon I'll chime in on this conversation....my ancestors....all deceased by now...were members of the Black Hand. My great uncle was known as "Tony the Hand". I have many news articles on the familia. Vince Spicuzza and Tony Russo were cousins of my grandfather. A number of cases regarding shootings, extortion, etc. involved familia. Most of the time they just wanted to enjoy their fruit and produce businesses, however, some people thought it might be nice to use the trucks in the evening hours to transport other goods. An uncle of mine was shot in the kidney as mistaken identity....his brother was meant for the bullet. Lots of stories to tell with this group, and many were taken to the grave, I am sure. The list of our family names goes on: Busalaki (Busalacchi), Russo, Spicuzza, Bova, Mercurio, Gelardi, Giardina, Lombardo, Ciantro, Longo, Catanzaro, Salerno, etc. La Familia in St. Louis is all legitimate now, rest assured. I am understanding and following the federal court case in Chicago with the current Lombardo/Calabrese/Marcello families going on as we speak. Too bad some of these guys could not find another line of work. SReif -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "JAMES O BRASHER" <jims505@msn.com<mailto:jims505@msn.com>> > Kathy: > > Just as an item of information, I would say that the Black hand group was then > known as today's mafia. Al Capone imported a group of folks from Italy and they > were named the Green ones, because they were greenhorns fresh off the boat from > Sicily. It was their job to take over the rackets in southern Illinois, but did > not have much luck because they forgot to ask the Irish who were firmly > established in the area. Tis a very interesting story with much gore, murder, > blood and heart ache for these innocents who had the very same thoughts of > success. Needless to say, they were not at all welcomed to the neighborhood of > St Louis and had to be escorted out of St Louis by the city's finest. Popular > names connected to the Green Ones were Russo and Spicuzza.----Jim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kathy Greifzu<mailto:kgreifzu@charter.net<mailto:kgreifzu@charter.net>> > To: mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:50 PM > Subject: Re: [MO-STLOUIS-METRO] City of St. Louis -High andBiddleStreetSaloon > > > Yeah, the article is pretty interesting. It does say this: > "St. Louis detectives in making their identification stated that the > presumption was that Rocco had incurred the disfavor of an Italian group in > his neighborhood, probably in matters concerned with bootlegging, and had > been lured to the Illinois side on a purported tour of various roadhouses on > the Pontoon road." > > Someone called the undertaker and said, "Rocco is dead in Mitchell, Ill.," > was the message. "Get the body and give him a good send-off." > > There were three shootings prior to his... all Italian fella's. The last > sentence of the one article says "The police also assert that of late a > black-hand group has been active in its extortion practices against > bootleggers and Rocco may have fallen victim to their animosity." > > I read someplace else about how they use to make the saloon guys give them > part of their profits. > Kathy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JAMES O BRASHER" <jims505@msn.com<mailto:jims505@msn.com<mailto:jims505@msn.com%3Cmailto:jims505@msn.com>>> > To: <mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com>>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:40 PM > Subject: Re: [MO-STLOUIS-METRO] City of St. Louis -High and > BiddleStreetSaloon > > > Hi Kathy: > > You may want to remember that this area we are looking at, was the area that > The Kerry Patch and little Italy were adjacent to each other. I'm sure it > wasn't My McQuillens who got uncle Mariano, but it might have been Al Capone > on one of his visits to St Louis during his attempt at taking over the area > when he wouldn't even use his real name for fear of getting rubbed out by > those Irish guys.----Jim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kathy > Greifzu<mailto:kgreifzu@charter.net<mailto:kgreifzu@charter.net<mailto:kgreifzu@charter.net%3Cmailto:kgreifzu@charter.net>>> > To: > mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stl<mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stl> > ouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:ouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com>>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 3:27 PM > Subject: Re: [MO-STLOUIS-METRO] City of St. Louis -High and > BiddleStreetSaloon > > > Wow, what a coincidence. My great uncle Mariano Rocca (Rocco) owned a > saloon at 9th and Biddle in 1924. I have no idea what the name was nor do > I > have any information about it other than it was named in an article about > his death when he was killed in a bootlegging incident in May of 1924. I > have front page articles concerning his death from both the St. Louis Post > Dispatch and the Globe Democrat. If anyone knows of this saloon, I would > love to know more about it. > > Thanks, > Kathy Greifzu > > kgreifzu@charter.net<mailto:kgreifzu@charter.net<mailto:kgreifzu@charter.net%3Cm<mailto:kgreifzu@charter.net%3Cmailto:kgreifzu@charter.net%3Cmailto:kgreifzu@charter.net%3Cm> > ailto:kgreifzu@charter.net>> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > <SaeeIa@aol.com<mailto:SaeeIa@aol.com<mailto:SaeeIa@aol.com%3Cmailto:SaeeIa@aol<mailto:SaeeIa@aol.com%3Cmailto:SaeeIa@aol.com%3Cmailto:SaeeIa@aol.com%3Cmailto:SaeeIa@aol>. > com>>> > To: > <mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-st<mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-st> > louis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:louis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com>>>> > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 7:58 PM > Subject: Re: [MO-STLOUIS-METRO] City of St. Louis -High and Biddle > StreetSaloon > > > > There was a New York Hotel and Saloon at 9th and Biddle, in the 1870s. > I > > don't know if its what you're looking for. It was operated, for some > > time, by > > Matthais Bader, my ggrandfather. There was another, earlier, on what > was > > at > > the time called main street, but I've not yet learned the name. > > > > Madelyn B > > > > ========Original Message======== Subj: Re: [MO-STLOUIS-METRO] City > of > > St. Louis -Tracking addresses Date: 6/18/2007 3:16:03 P.M. Central > > Daylight > > Time From: > _jims505@msn.com<mailto:_jims505@msn.com<mailto:_jims505@msn.com%3Cmailto:_jims5<mailto:_jims505@msn.com%3Cmailto:_jims505@msn.com%3Cmailto:_jims505@msn.com%3Cmailto:_jims5> > 05@msn.com<mailto:05@msn.com>>>_ > > (mailto:jims505@msn.com<mailto:jims505@msn.com<mailto:jims505@msn.com%3Cmailto:j<mailto:jims505@msn.com%3Cmailto:jims505@msn.com%3Cmailto:jims505@msn.com%3Cmailto:j> > ims505@msn.com<mailto:ims505@msn.com>>>) To: > > > _dpn@mohistory.org<mailto:_dpn@mohistory.org<mailto:_dpn@mohistory.org%3Cmailto<mailto:_dpn@mohistory.org%3Cmailto:_dpn@mohistory.org%3Cmailto:_dpn@mohistory.org%3Cmailto>: > _dpn@mohistory.org<mailto:_dpn@mohistory.org>>>_ > > > (mailto:dpn@mohistory.org<mailto:dpn@mohistory.org<mailto:dpn@mohistory.org%3Cma<mailto:dpn@mohistory.org%3Cmailto:dpn@mohistory.org%3Cmailto:dpn@mohistory.org%3Cma> > ilto:dpn@mohistory.org>>) , > > _mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:_mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:_mo<mailto:_mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:_mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:_mo>- > stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:_mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:_mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com>>>_ > > > > (mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com<mailt<mailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailt> > o:mo-stlouis-metro@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:mo-stlouis-metro@rootswebcom>>) > Sent on: > > Dennis: > > > > Would it be possible to find what the exact address of the High and > > Biddle > > Street Saloon might have been in 1920? I think in a more modern time > > period it > > may have been on the corner of 11th and Biddle, but I'm not > sure.----Jim > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.c<mailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.c> > om<mailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-reques<mailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-reques> > t@rootsweb.com<mailto:t@rootsweb.com>>> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.c<mailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com%3Cmailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.c> > om> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:MO-STLOUIS-METRO-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Jim, don't I qualify on the basis of my uncle, Toots Clark? His shooting made a headline in the Globe Democrat.They even had a picture of the bullt-ridden car in addition to his portrait. Ellen ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection.