Quicksand URLs: http://www.howstuffworks.com/quicksand.htm http://www.word-detective.com/howcome/quicksand.html By the way, did you know that the Old Post Office in downtown STL is build on Quicksand? Yep. Someone who was on the building team (I can't remember who) was from the South were there was a lot of quicksand and he knew that when you put cotton into quicksand it became very hard like concrete in our world today. So the large and heavy Post Office hasn't sunk in decades. Ok, here is a URL about the Post Office too. http://w3.gsa.gov/web/p/interaia_save.nsf/0/6fe1fa3da0aa2516852565d900539fae?OpenDocument http://www.slfp.com/031202City.htm http://www.umsl.edu/~cfh/city00-drey.html this has the info about it being built on quicksand Laura ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jims505@aol.com> To: <MO-STLOUIS-METRO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:30 PM Subject: [StL-Metro] Earth Quakes and Quicksand. > The question I asked about earth quakes was supposed to lead up to this > question, but I became so engrossed in the responses on earthquakes I almost got > lost: > > Could the 1811 earth quake have caused pools of quicksand to form as far away > from the Mississippi as Valley Park where the Meramec River flows under I-44 > nearest to St Louis? One of which I was caught in up to my knees in 1945. It > was very near to the site where they were working that rock quarry. (My sister > told me not to play hooky that day.)----Jim > > > ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > To ask for a lookup or volunteer to do acts of genealogical kindess, visit Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness at http://www.RAOGK.org. > >

Jim: Maybe you should also know that here at New Madrid the river actually flows east to west for about one mile, due to the bend in its course.

I know that we have moved past this conversation, but, I contacted a geologist regarding the earthquake of 1811. Below is the email that I received. Michelle muesic@msn.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Conor M Watkins" <cwatkin@umr.edu> To: "Michelle Robinson (Michelle Robinson)" <muesic@msn.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:54 PM Subject: FW: [StL-Metro] Earthquake of 1811 > Here is some more information. I will go through the AEG guidebook, as > I have it and send you more information. > > Conor Watkins > cwatkin@umr.edu > UM-Rolla Dept. of Geological Engineering > Visit Conor Watkins' Ozark Mountain Experience > at www.umr.edu/~cwatkin/cwome > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rogers, David [mailto:rogersda@umr.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:42 PM > To: Watkins, Conor Maris (UMR-Student) > Subject: RE: [StL-Metro] Earthquake of 1811 > > It occurred along the Reelfoot Rift, right at New Madrid. The channel > lifted something like 10 feet, and water backed up for 5-6 hours, > upstream of New Madrid, then flowed on down the same channel, > re-excavating its bed in about 24 hrs. Reelfoot Lake was also enlarged > (deepened) considerably. Good descriptions in the 2001 AEG Field Trip > Guidebook by Dave Hoffman and Buddy Schweig. > > J. David Rogers, Ph.D., P.E., R.G., C.E.G., C.H.G. > Karl F. Hasselmann Chair in Geological Engineering > Department of Geological Engineering > 129 McNutt Hall, 1870 Miner Circle > University of Missouri-Rolla > Rolla, MO 65409-0230 > (573) 341-6198 voice > (573) 341-6935 fax > E-mail: rogersda@umr.edu > URL: www.umr.edu/~rogersda >

The question I asked about earth quakes was supposed to lead up to this question, but I became so engrossed in the responses on earthquakes I almost got lost: Could the 1811 earth quake have caused pools of quicksand to form as far away from the Mississippi as Valley Park where the Meramec River flows under I-44 nearest to St Louis? One of which I was caught in up to my knees in 1945. It was very near to the site where they were working that rock quarry. (My sister told me not to play hooky that day.)----Jim

Thanks for sending this information to the list. I checked it even though the year was not one in which I expected to find a relative. LaVerne In a message dated 8/3/03 11:51:29 PM Central Daylight Time, MO-STLOUIS-METRO-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > http://www.immigrantships.net/v5/1800v5/goschen18600607.html >

Bill is correct that the VP Parade followed streetcar lines for power, but power for lighting, not for locomotion. The floats were very well lighted. My great aunt lived in an apartment at Lindell & Sarah, on the Lindell side; we had a great spot to view the parade. Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks Please see http://www.rollanet.org/~bdoerr/contents.htm

It is also possible that there was not as much water in the river as there is now because of levies and locks and dams. I had two ancestors who used to take goods down the river from Kentucky on rafts about that time. They were drowned during one of the earthquakes. Ann __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

I've always been a sucker for a pretty face. I received this answer from a beauty who knows what she's talking about. I did find a lot of this info on a number of sites, but I'm still looking for collateral damage or happenings. I love this response.----Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Honey, Why are you so damn hung up on the water? Heeeheehee... Okay. Let's see if I can figure it out with you. When the tectonic plate rose up (that bend being the northern most edge of it), the water flowed BACKWARDS, like a waterfall. It wasn't necessarily a waterfall, more like really bad rapids. The water spilled over the edge of the riverbank on the MISSOURI side, and onto the floodplains. Most of that area was all under water. Water also flowed backwards into creeks and streams, and smaller rivers. Farmland was inundated. Oh, and it was one of the coldest winters on record - the UPPER Mississippi, et al were frozen over, thus restricting most northbound traffic for the winter. Now, if you are asking how far back the river actually flowed backwards, well, that's a matter of speculation. The rapids and the resulting displaced water affected only about three miles of the Mississippi River itself. It wasn't FLOWING backwards, it was a swirl of water, with the top water flowing with a backward current, and the bottom of the river still flowing the same direction - south. Does this help any? You really need to get yourself that book called "The Earthquakes America Forgot" by David Steward and Ray Knox. It has lots of little info in it just like the one that's troubling you. They go into great detail about WHY bells rang in Boston, but people near Natchez and New Orleans had to hear about it from rivermen who were scared sh*tless... Yours truly, ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- (I'm pretty sure that star between the h and t should be an "O")

>Hi Joan: > I made a web page (with Ellen's help_ about how to use LDS to search for St. Louis Roman Catholic sacramental records. It has a list of churches and their addresses and the years they were in existence. It also relates the addresses to the 1880 census wards. Maybe it can help you. http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/churchrecords.htm Diane Shaw >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joan T Kaemmer" <jkaemmer@juno.com> >To: <MO-STLOUIS-METRO-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 12:38 PM >Subject: [StL-Metro] church > > > > >>I found a relative who lived at 3814 Prairie in 1920. I was wondering if >>anyone on the list knew which Catholic church was in that area that they >>might have attended. >> >>Thanks, >>Joan >> >> >>==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== >>To ask for a lookup or volunteer to do acts of genealogical kindess, visit >> >> >Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness at http://www.RAOGK.org. > > > >______________________________ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > [StL-Metro] German Cause in Civil War Missouri > From: > "Scott K. Williams" <mocsa@earthlink.net> > Date: > Tue, 5 Aug 2003 01:10:33 -0500 > To: > MO-STLOUIS-METRO-L@rootsweb.com > > >John Maurath and I have been putting together a page about the German Cause in Civil War Missouri. A draft version is up on the >website. We still have lots of material to add but I wanted to announce it to the lists so we have the opportunity to include >information from unpublished sources (perhaps a detailed wartime accounts passed down in the family history). > >Also under works is another page on St. Louis Hungarians in the Civil War, but that is not yet up. > >http://www.missouricivilwarmuseum.org/germancause.htm > >Scott K. Williams, >Webmaster >The Missouri Civil War Museum > >______________________________ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > Re: [StL-Metro] Earthquake of 1811 > From: > Karjac@aol.com > Date: > Tue, 5 Aug 2003 08:56:00 EDT > To: > MO-STLOUIS-METRO-L@rootsweb.com > > >Lots of info on the New Madrid Earhquake at this site. . . . perhaps a link >for an answer to your specific question. >The Mississippi Valley- "Whole Lot of Shakin' Goin' On" >http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/prepare/factsheets/NewMadrid/ > >

Thanks to all who responded to my query about a church near Prairie Ave. I now have a place to start my search. Joan

Greetings, Jim! This link has probably already been given, but in case not: http://hsv.com/genlintr/newmadrd/index.htm This page contains a number of further links, including some eye-witness accounts, and several area photographs from 1904. In one eye-witness account I read, the observer notes that the water in the Mississippi "flowed backward for several minutes," which is similar to what was observed during the devastating Port Royal, Jamaica earthquake of 1692. That river (the Rio Cobre) actually had part of a hillside slide into the river, blocking the flow for over a day. Makes the 1971 L.A. earthquake look like a baby! ;-) Regards, Cori > Jims505@aol.com wrote: > December 16, 1811 there was a huge earthquake along the New Madrid fault in > southeast Missouri that caused the Mississippi River to reverse its course and > flow northward. > > Where would the water back up to? That much water had to be displaced to some > point. Does anyone know where that point was?----Jim > > > ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > For tips on researching St. Louis Church Records: http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/churchrecords.htm > > > > Nannette > > Reasearching Surnames: WARFIELD Mitchell McConnell HEUGELE Rowbotham STIENECKE Summerman VanGels Berger COLLINS DUNNAVANT PARRISH . States: Md,Mo.,WV.,Wi. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > > ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > If you are researching the Irish in St. Louis, you might want to have a look at Diane Shaw's websites: http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/Irshnstl.htm and http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/KerryPatch.htm >

When I asked the question, "Where did the water end up when the Mississippi flowed north in 1811," I knew I would get an answer from the list. I just wasn't expecting the answers I got. I knew the river flowed north Dec 16, 1811 period, end of discussion. Now I find that the river may have appeared to flow north, but not necessarily. Also it wasn't the strongest quake to take place the winter of 1811/1812. There was a series of earth quakes in a very specific sequence, the strongest of which happened on Feb 7, 1812. Being rather retarded, I now have to ask, if the bells rang in Boston sometime during the sequence of quakes, the river flowed with huge waves and the land rose in huge plates of earth and lakes were formed, what happened to the water? Where was the point where the water stopped flowing NORTH? Confound this genealogy kick I'm on. I can't find two of my great grandfathers burial sites either.----Jim

Jim, One point was REELFOOT LAKE here in Tn near the state's NW corner about an hour or so from where I'm located 30+ miles NW of Memphis in Tipton County. Nannette Jims505@aol.com wrote: December 16, 1811 there was a huge earthquake along the New Madrid fault in southeast Missouri that caused the Mississippi River to reverse its course and flow northward. Where would the water back up to? That much water had to be displaced to some point. Does anyone know where that point was?----Jim ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== For tips on researching St. Louis Church Records: http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/churchrecords.htm Nannette Reasearching Surnames: WARFIELD Mitchell McConnell HEUGELE Rowbotham STIENECKE Summerman VanGels Berger COLLINS DUNNAVANT PARRISH . States: Md,Mo.,WV.,Wi. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

I want to thank everyone who helped me on my Ged-Com in FTM. You people are great. Pat In Fl ----- Original Message ----- From: rbozzay To: MO-STLOUIS-METRO-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:35 PM Subject: Re: [StL-Metro] can some help me a Ged-Com A couple of things to keep in mind: 1. Not all genealogy software works the same way. You need to know what software and version you have because what works for one may not work for another (found this out the hard way!) 2. Make sure to mark as private with your privacy flag option any living people before you do the export 3. Mark the names you want to export if it is only part of your file. 4. I find it safer to make a copy and then delete the names I don't want if I am sending more than deleting. I hope this helps! Laura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom & Pat McDevitt" <mertiebell@comcast.net> To: <MO-STLOUIS-METRO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 5:45 PM Subject: [StL-Metro] can some help me a Ged-Com > I have the latest FTW. I am not able to figure out how to do a Ged-Com. I have all my families under the same surname and I need to do a Ged-Com on just one family. I need small steps. Can anyone help me please?????? > > Pat in Fl > > > ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > If you are researching the Irish in St. Louis, you might want to have a look at Diane Shaw's websites: http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/Irshnstl.htm and http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/KerryPatch.htm > >

Lots of info on the New Madrid Earhquake at this site. . . . perhaps a link for an answer to your specific question. The Mississippi Valley- "Whole Lot of Shakin' Goin' On" http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/prepare/factsheets/NewMadrid/

Dear Roland, I am not familiar with the records in Alton, but my relatives who came from "Germany or Prussia" according to censuses and civil records, belonged to a Catholic church whose pastor recorded the birth place of the bridal couple who had come from the old country and married here. One set of great, great grandparents were married in Westphalia but their church death register information included their place of birth. Possibly, there might be a church record (baptism for the children who were born in Illinois) which might include the parents' place of birth. Maybe a local paper would have information about their birth place in an obit. Maybe an historical society might have something or a county history and biography. I am assuming that the family is either Catholic or Lutheran, so I would try church records first. Madison County Genweb http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilmadiso/ Ssome of the links on the above seem to be out of date or not working. Georgia Roland Bauer wrote: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------532EFA0F167B3944146A3C58 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anyone help? RGB Subject: ILTrails: Theodor Dietz and relatives, Alton, Madison IL 1880/1882 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-iltrails@usroots.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ILTrails@usroots.com X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Hello ILTrails, please excuse, that I start with some listings - I am looking for the Dietz from Essentho, who probably lived in Alton, because they partly travelled together with the Gottlob-Family from Essentho - that family was found in Alton... The 1882 Alton Patron List shows DIETZ, J. Theodore Prop'r of lime kilns on Second St., b. Minden, Ger. came to Mad. Co. 1854. This fits together with the 1880 census, which shows: Theodore DIETZ Self single age 46 born Prussia Living next door on the same page 89B was the brother of Theodore: William DIETZ age 37 born Prussia Caroline DIETZ wife age 32 born Prussia Caroline DIETZ daughter age 9 born ILLINOIS William DIETZ son age 7 born ILL Edward Dietz son age 4 born ILL Charles DIETZ son age 2 born ILL Not to far from this on page 90C was: Bernard Gottlob self age 43 Prussia Mary Gottlob wife age 27 Prussia Louisa Gottlob dau age 8 born ILLinois Bernard Gottlob son age 4 born ILL Mary Gottlob dau age 3 born ILL Joseph Gottlob son age 11months born IL The emigrants from Essentho were: 1) Dietz, Heinrich (*about 1793 ?) emigrates from Essentho, (Marsberg) Westphalia, Prussia to the US approx 1851, together with his Children: 2) Dietz, Theodor *16.03.1837 3) Dietz, Karoline *15.06.1839 4) Dietz, Wilhelm *11.02.1844 5) Dietz, Maria * 25.06.1847 perhaps following 6) Dietz, Franz Joseph *07.07.1828 Essentho, Father: Heinrich Dietz (nee "Neuen Schulten"), Mother: Wilken, Louise, emigrated approx 1846/47. travelled together with Joseph Gottlob *12.01.1829 Essentho. 7) Dietz, Friedrich Wilhelm *26.02.1831 Essentho, Father: Heinrich Dietz (nee "Neuen Schulten"), Mother: Wilken, Louise, emigrated approx 1848. 8) Philipp Dietz emigrates in 1851 with wife and child from Essentho I would think, that Theodor Dietz (at 2), born 16.03.1837 could be the Theodore Dietz in the 1882 Alton Patrons list, but this list names Minden, Prussia as his town of origin and there is a difference between his years of births (Census - Theodor: 1834 / Essentho - Theodor: 1837) and year of emigration (Alton-patron-list: 1854 / Essentho-Theodor: 1851), So it might not be "my" Theodore from Essentho, but: There is hardly any chance to find the westphalian (Essentho) Dietz between all the others (mainly from Hessen, Bavaria, Vogtland etc). I did not find any of them on ship-lists, only on the emigration-records for the bishopric of Paderborn. I thought it might be a good idea to look for the people, they travelled with. In the case of Franz Joseph Dietz (see above No. 6) this is Joseph Gottlob. Both were born in Essentho. And the Gottlob-Family settled in Alton, Illinois. The other Dietz followed Franz Joseph Dietz - so I thought, they could have settled in Alton as well. Two given names of the the other (Census) Alton Dietzes fit together with the given names of the Essentho-Dietz, e.g. William and Caroline. Unfortunately they seem to be one generation apart from each other. May I ask, if somebody is familiar with the Dietz / and / or / Gottlob-Families. Maybe some Alton-records show Essentho as place of origin for some Alton-Dietz? Any help is much appreciated. Thank you very much for your attention and have freundliche Grüße aus Berlin! gregor winkelhahn -- best regards! schöne grüße! dietz.tz.tz! the dietz.tz.tz! genealogical project dietz in, from and to westphalia in Etteln, Atteln, Essentho... mailto:dietz.tz.tz@gmx.net Montag, 4. August 2003 --------------532EFA0F167B3944146A3C58-- ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== If you are researching the Irish in St. Louis, you might want to have a look at Diane Shaw's websites: http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/Irshnstl.htm and http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/KerryPatch.htm

If I recall my earthquake history right, the Mississippi River didn't flow backward until the February 1812 earthquake (about 8.8). It was a direct hit on New Madrid, and where the rapids were just SOUTH of town (UPSTREAM for those of you not already confused), (check your maps), that was the area that actually ROSE up when the earth gave way. There is a huge bend on the Illinois side of the river that points right at New Madrid. That bend is the northernmost edge of the plate that was jammed upward during the last big quake. That upward rising caused the Mississippi to roll backwards for a couple of hours. There are eyewitness accounts of this and you can read about it in a great book called "The Earthquakes American Forgot" by David Stewart and Ray Knox. Old New Madrid is located about 1/2 way between the Illinois riverbank and New Madrid today. Creepy, eh? You can find it at Amazon, Half.com, and for the horribly cheap (like me), at any library in Missouri. EXCELLENT book - I highly rec it for anyone who has even the slightest earthquake jones, like me. Oh, and at my website on the New Madrid page, there is a satellite image of the NMSZ, and you can see just how big the floodplain for the Mississippi/Ohio river really is. Lisa Farrand Kemp (The EarthQuack) http://pookie-baby.tripod.com/Farrand2000/index.html

Lots of oxbow lakes, too. The Mississippi and the Ohio also used to come in down near Natchez - just FYI! Go to my website (link below) and go to the New Madrid page - it has links to all kinds of info on it. Lisa Farrand Kemp (the earthquake freak) http://pookie-baby.tripod.com/Farrand2000/index.html > Jim: > > As I remember, Reelfoot Lake in Tennessee came to be as a result of that > earthquake. Obviously there would have been deep and wide sinkholes and > chasms formed. Interesting. Where's our H2O expert? I think it's Larry? > Sorry I lost the e-mail address when I upgraded. > > Gary Stoltman > Mercerville, NJ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Jims505@aol.com> > To: <MO-STLOUIS-METRO-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 9:35 PM > Subject: [StL-Metro] Earthquake of 1811 > > > > December 16, 1811 there was a huge earthquake along the New Madrid fault > in > > southeast Missouri that caused the Mississippi River to reverse its course > and > > flow northward. > > > > Where would the water back up to? That much water had to be displaced to > some > > point. Does anyone know where that point was?----Jim > > > > > > ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > > For tips on researching St. Louis Church Records: > http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/churchrecords.htm > > > > > ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > If you are researching the Irish in St. Louis, you might want to have a look at > Diane Shaw's websites: http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/Irshnstl.htm and > http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/KerryPatch.htm >

John Maurath and I have been putting together a page about the German Cause in Civil War Missouri. A draft version is up on the website. We still have lots of material to add but I wanted to announce it to the lists so we have the opportunity to include information from unpublished sources (perhaps a detailed wartime accounts passed down in the family history). Also under works is another page on St. Louis Hungarians in the Civil War, but that is not yet up. http://www.missouricivilwarmuseum.org/germancause.htm Scott K. Williams, Webmaster The Missouri Civil War Museum

Try these link. One might have what you are looking for: http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/missouri.html http://thecaperock.com/places/mo/maps/ http://www.slcl.lib.mo.us/slcl/sc/ww-stl-oq.htm#P http://www.expedia.com/pub/agent.dll?qscr=mmfn Prairie was in several locations. enter Prairie St. Louis MO and see the list Good luck! Laura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan T Kaemmer" <jkaemmer@juno.com> To: <MO-STLOUIS-METRO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 12:38 PM Subject: [StL-Metro] church > I found a relative who lived at 3814 Prairie in 1920. I was wondering if > anyone on the list knew which Catholic church was in that area that they > might have attended. > > Thanks, > Joan > > > ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== > To ask for a lookup or volunteer to do acts of genealogical kindess, visit Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness at http://www.RAOGK.org. >