Ellen, Which one was your notorious uncle? Did I miss something here? Not sure which of the 'gentlemen' you are referring to. Murder/homicide in a family sounds exciting...it it didn't happen in one's own family. When I first heard about my great- aunt's son, Elmer Runge, I thought...."Wow! A gangland murder in the family!!" But then, remembering Gr-Aunt Nell, and how it must have affected her.....(my youngest son is 26, and I know how I'd feel if it were to happen to him).....this made me realize that it is still a tragedy.......no matter how many generations removed from it we are. It DOES make the gen report look a little more....er, interesting, shall we say? Love and light to you, Diane Ellen <enalibof@netscape.net> wrote: My notorious uncle's shooting and subsequent death were covered by the Globe-Democrat and the Post Dispatch. You know the date of his death so begin reading microfilm of the newspapers. If you are out of town, try the Reference Department of the St Louis Public Library for photocopies. His death certificate was stamped "HOMICIDE." Ellen --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

My notorious uncle's shooting and subsequent death were covered by the Globe-Democrat and the Post Dispatch. You know the date of his death so begin reading microfilm of the newspapers. If you are out of town, try the Reference Department of the St Louis Public Library for photocopies. His death certificate was stamped "HOMICIDE." Ellen Diane T <mzplum_2000@yahoo.com> wrote: > > >Yep, Jim......a gangster in the family. Can't let you have ALL the fun, can I? But of course, you have to understand this gangster was on my IRISH side of the family!! heheh > > I went to "Mafia.com" and crimemagazine, but didn't find out anything more about Elmer. Still have to check out the Mercantile Library and the circuit clerk's archives. > >I also just found out that my maternal grandparents were married out in Kirkwood, rather than here in the city as I'd thought all along. While telling a cousin of mine about it, on IM tonight, she informs me that my maternal grandmother's folks had a lot of land in Kirkwood back then. Now why the heck didn't my mom ever tell me that? Grandma's maiden name was Heinz, sometimes spelled Heintz, and my cousin thought that Heintz Road in So. County was named for them. Hmmmm....more leads to follow up on!!! Lordie, how I LOVE genealogy!!!! > >Diane T > >Jims505@aol.com wrote: > >"Heavens to Betsy Mrs T." > >Do you mean to say a good Catholic girl like yourself has a gangster in your family? > >Go immediately to "Mafia.com" for more info on the Egan Rats and rid yourself of some of your questions. You may also wish to take a look at "crimemagazine.com" for a tad more info. Then take a look out at the mercantile library for news clips. > >Then get in touch with Kathy Grillo at the circuit clerks Archives. Maybe that will nudge that office into finding what I've been waiting for, the last two years.----Jim > >PS >You will be buying news clips at the Mercantile. > > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > >==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== >A complete Genealogy just can't be...there's always more. > > __________________________________________________________________ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455

To use HeritageQuest from the County Site, you use your library card, name and number to access.

Yep, Jim......a gangster in the family. Can't let you have ALL the fun, can I? But of course, you have to understand this gangster was on my IRISH side of the family!! heheh I went to "Mafia.com" and crimemagazine, but didn't find out anything more about Elmer. Still have to check out the Mercantile Library and the circuit clerk's archives. I also just found out that my maternal grandparents were married out in Kirkwood, rather than here in the city as I'd thought all along. While telling a cousin of mine about it, on IM tonight, she informs me that my maternal grandmother's folks had a lot of land in Kirkwood back then. Now why the heck didn't my mom ever tell me that? Grandma's maiden name was Heinz, sometimes spelled Heintz, and my cousin thought that Heintz Road in So. County was named for them. Hmmmm....more leads to follow up on!!! Lordie, how I LOVE genealogy!!!! Diane T Jims505@aol.com wrote: "Heavens to Betsy Mrs T." Do you mean to say a good Catholic girl like yourself has a gangster in your family? Go immediately to "Mafia.com" for more info on the Egan Rats and rid yourself of some of your questions. You may also wish to take a look at "crimemagazine.com" for a tad more info. Then take a look out at the mercantile library for news clips. Then get in touch with Kathy Grillo at the circuit clerks Archives. Maybe that will nudge that office into finding what I've been waiting for, the last two years.----Jim PS You will be buying news clips at the Mercantile. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

I tried to access Heritage Quest from the St. Louis Public Library's web site and found that you need a pin number, but I could not find any information about how to get a pin number. You know me folks, I tried the obvious ones! So I will call the St. Louis Public Library tomorrow and get information on how to get a pin number to use with the number on your St. Louis Public Library Card in order to access Heritage Quest from their web site. I will post the answer on the list as soon as I know it. Diane Shaw Antonia, MO

Kathy: That is great news about Heritage Quest at the Public Library! I hope a lot of people use it. What did the public library subscribe to? I know that some libraries have subscribed to newspapers on line. The St. Louis County library did not do that. I am interested in Chicago newspapers during the 1930's and the New York Herald during the 1840's to the early 1900's. Is there a difference between the subscriptions that the Public Library has and the County Library has? I know you like Heritage Quest and I am glad that it will be available to patrons of the public library. Thanks for letting us know. Diane Shaw Antonia, MO

Yeah Shirl: what's the recipe.----Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- C'mon Shirl, share that recipe!!!!!! ShineOn101@aol.co m To 08/26/2003 11:50 MO-STLOUIS-METRO-L@rootsweb.com AM cc Subject [StL-Metro] Tamales vs Barbeque I don't know about tamales in STL. But I didn't show up in our family until 1937. What I do remember is the best barbequed ribs that ever existed or ever will exist, in my family's opinion. It was John's Rib Station on Garrison St. The wonderful black owner, John (I think last name was Robison, but not sure anymore), had his own secret sauce. His waitress was called "Johnny" but not sure if that was her real name. She was a large black lady that was just a bundle of love. My parents were going there to eat from the mid 1920's long before I was born. When I came along my mother started me out when only a few months old with a taste of that wonderful hot sauce. And, I mean hot....... By the time daddy died in 1948 when I was 10 years old, John's Rib Station was no more. Old John died and no one in his family wanted to carry on with the best barbeque ever made. My oldest brother who is now 82 years old did get the recipe from the waitress, Johnny, before the restaurant completely closed down. Now my brother makes the best barbeque sauce in the world. Because my siblings are all in their 70's and 80's, every year our family has a reunion. My brother makes this sauce and brings it (with meat) in a big crock pot. And, I am fortunate to have been able to talk him into giving me the recipe only a couple of years ago. I probably should bottle and sell it. I know it would be a hit. So..... now back to tamales..... Except for canned tamales, I never tasted Mexican food until I moved to Houston TX in 1980. Now it is my most favorite food, except for barbeque when I can have that special John's Rib Station sauce. Shirl Hite Sieli b. STL 1937

I don't know about tamales in STL.  But I didn't show up in our family until 1937.  What I do remember is the best barbequed ribs that ever existed or ever will exist, in my family's opinion.  It was John's Rib Station on Garrison St.  The wonderful black owner, John (I think last name was Robison, but not sure anymore), had his own secret sauce.  His waitress was called "Johnny" but not sure if that was her real name.  She was a large black lady that was just a bundle of love.  My parents were going there to eat from the mid 1920's long before I was born.  When I came along my mother started me out when only a few months old with a taste of that wonderful hot sauce.  And, I mean hot.......  By the time daddy died in 1948 when I was 10 years old, John's Rib Station was no more.  Old John died and no one in his family wanted to carry on with the best barbeque ever made.  My oldest brother who is now 82 years old did get the recipe from the waitress, Johnny, before the restaurant completely closed down.  Now my brother makes the best barbeque sauce in the world.  Because my siblings are all in their 70's and 80's, every year our family has a reunion. My brother makes this sauce and brings it (with meat) in a big crock pot.  And, I am fortunate to have been able to talk him into giving me the recipe only a couple of years ago.  I probably should bottle and sell it.  I know it would be a hit. So..... now back to tamales..... Except for canned tamales, I never tasted Mexican food until I moved to Houston TX in 1980.  Now it is my most favorite food, except for barbeque when I can have that special John's Rib Station sauce.  Shirl Hite Sieli b. STL 1937

C'mon Shirl, share that recipe!!!!!! ShineOn101@aol.co m To 08/26/2003 11:50 MO-STLOUIS-METRO-L@rootsweb.com AM cc Subject [StL-Metro] Tamales vs Barbeque I don't know about tamales in STL.  But I didn't show up in our family until 1937.  What I do remember is the best barbequed ribs that ever existed or ever will exist, in my family's opinion.  It was John's Rib Station on Garrison St.  The wonderful black owner, John (I think last name was Robison, but not sure anymore), had his own secret sauce.  His waitress was called "Johnny" but not sure if that was her real name.  She was a large black lady that was just a bundle of love.  My parents were going there to eat from the mid 1920's long before I was born.  When I came along my mother started me out when only a few months old with a taste of that wonderful hot sauce.  And, I mean hot....... By the time daddy died in 1948 when I was 10 years old, John's Rib Station was no more.  Old John died and no one in his family wanted to carry on with the best barbeque ever made.  My oldest brother who is now 82 years old did get the recipe from the waitress, Johnny, before the restaurant completely closed down.  Now my brother makes the best barbeque sauce in the world.  Because my siblings are all in their 70's and 80's, every year our family has a reunion. My brother makes this sauce and brings it (with meat) in a big crock pot. And, I am fortunate to have been able to talk him into giving me the recipe only a couple of years ago.  I probably should bottle and sell it.  I know it would be a hit. So..... now back to tamales..... Except for canned tamales, I never tasted Mexican food until I moved to Houston TX in 1980.  Now it is my most favorite food, except for barbeque when I can have that special John's Rib Station sauce. Shirl Hite Sieli b. STL 1937 ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== I only work on Genealogy on days that end in "Y".

MICHELLE!!! THANK YOU for sending this out - Luckily, I have 2x protection for Virus, which I update my purchased one 1x a week. AT&T also provides protection for my $21.95/mo. Microsoft also generously supplied a free "patch" for the worm, which I downloaded weeks ago. JUST TODAY I got that bizarre message you wrote about, and I was suspicious. Luckily, I'd already read your email (even if it was off-topic), and I just deleted it. Thanks again for saving me the headache! Lisa Farrand Kemp "Farrand Families of Missouri and Illinois" http://pookie-baby.tripod.com/Farrand2000/index.html Rootsweb Posting http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=speshelkay > You might get messages from "System Admin" or other >ISP administrators that will alert you that your email >did not get delivered to the recipient because it >contained a virus. It will look as if you sent someone an >email containing a virus. Do not be alarmed, this is >characteristic. But, do not open the attachment that >comes with it.

Ladies and Gentlemen, Although virus discussion is not permitted on this list <g>, Laura and I felt that this was something that needed to be addressed. There is a virus running rampant, and due to the different levels of computer savvy people on the list, we felt that we needed to let you know a couple of key points. This virus is quite ugly. It can affect users of Windows operating systems. This virus is a variant of the SOBIG virus, and can have various subjects such as "Your details", "re: Your application"; "re: Details", "re: Thank You!" and others. It will always come with an attachment, usually with a .pif or .scr extension. These files carry script that is very dangerous for your computer. You might get messages from "System Admin" or other ISP administrators that will alert you that your email did not get delivered to the recipient because it contained a virus. It will look as if you sent someone an email containing a virus. Do not be alarmed, this is characteristic. But, do not open the attachment that comes with it. Therefore: 1. Do not open any attachments that you do not recognize the sender name, or that you are not expecting. Once, I even had someone email me and say "I received a file from you with an attachment. Did you send this to me?" Then I responded "No, do not open that file!" 2. Keep your virus program up-to-date and run it often. As mentioned above, this should not be discussed via the list, however, if you have any questions, do not hesitate to write Laura or I (lbozzay@earthlink.net or muesic@msn.com). Have a great afternoon! Laura and Michelle

Hi Everyone, St. Louis Public Library now has HeritageQuest. It can be used in any of our branches or in the History & Genealogy department at the downtown Central Library. In History & Genealogy, sign-ups are for one hour if others are waiting, or until we close if no one else needs it. No library card is required. You can also access HeritageQuest at home through our web site <http://www.slpl.lib.mo.us> using a St. Louis Public Library card. If you have any questions, call or email Kathy Smith at mailto:ksmith@slpl.lib.mo.us or (314)539-0385. In the meantime, have a great day! Sincerely, Kathy Smith Librarian, History & Genealogy St. Louis Public Library

http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters_outlaws/family_epics/louis/3.html?sect=16 has great stories about the St. Louis crime family. Ellen Jims505@aol.com wrote: >"Heavens to Betsy Mrs T." > >Do you mean to say a good Catholic girl like yourself has a gangster in your >family? > >Go immediately to "Mafia.com" for more info on the Egan Rats and rid yourself >of some of your questions. You may also wish to take a look at >"crimemagazine.com" >for a tad more info. Then take a look out at the mercantile library for news >clips. Then get in touch with Kathy Grillo at the circuit clerks Archives. >Maybe that will nudge that office into finding what I've been waiting for, the >last two years.----Jim > >PS >You will be buying news clips at the Mercantile. >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Jim B.......or anyone else that has done research into the gangs of the >> '20's...... >> >> Just found out that a rellie of mine was a member of Egan's Rats, back >> around 1920 to 1923, when he was killed at the age of 21. His name was Elmer >> Runge. He is buried in Calvary Cemetery. >> >> This is what I found on the net: >> >> Taken from "Gang War Rages On" >> <A HREF="http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters_outlaws/family_epics/louis/4.html?sect=16"> >> http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters_outlaws/family_epics/louis/4.html?sect=16</A> >> >> *In March 1923, the Rats tried to ambush Edward “Jellyroll” Hogan and >> Humbert Costello as they were driving on Grand Blvd. Two of the shooters, Rat >> gunmen Elmer Runge and Isadore Londe, were arrested and Hogan was brought to >> police headquarters to identify them. >> >> “I’ll identify them, all right,” Hogan snapped at police. “I’ll identify >> them with a shotgun.”* >> >> There was much more to the article, but this is all it had to say about >> Elmer Runge, and I was just wondering if anyone has any more information about >> Egan's Rat gang. I have been told (by an Irish cousin that I hadn't seen in 40 >> years, and was reunited with last week) that Elmer had been murdered, in >> connection with either bootlegging or gambling. I'd love to find out more >> about this, and have been searching the internet, but so far, have not found >> anything more. Can someone point me in the right direction? >> >> Many thanks, >> >> DianeT >> >> >> > > > > >==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== >A complete Genealogy just can't be...there's always more. > > __________________________________________________________________ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455

Is anyone researching the BENSON family? I have Alvira (Alice) SPEARS BENSON age 27 on the 1880 MO St.Louis Census, with E. Willie, age 3, Floyd, age 2, and W. Joshua, age 9 months. Father born in NY, don't know first name. They lived at County Rd. NW Corner Heavens, now Steins, with her father, Joshua SPEARS. Sophie Fisher

Something seems to be a-miss in St Louis. In all the emails, on and off the board, there is no mention of Mayor Cervantes being seen in any of the "Hodge Parlors." Even the president was invited once, Where was Cervantes? It almost seems un-American that the mayor wouldn't show up. In New Mexico Cervantes Mexican Restaurant serves a pretty good bowl of Chile. Bill Buc: Where was that restaurant behind City Hospital? I can't quite place it and as you know, I grew up in that neighborhood. Trade Winds lounge was over on Chouteau and was noted for good old Southern fried chicken with crust so crisp it was like chewing on delicious glass.----Jim

A very kind list member sent me this piece of information. While St Louis slept this transpired.----Jim --------------------------------------------------------------------- Everyone agrees that the old parlor at 814 Pine Street was the major site in O.T. Hodge history, a renown chili haven dating to 1904. Until 1970, there was no need for a lock on the door because the parlor was never closed, said John Eirten, who operates three former O.T. Hodge parlors under the name Big Ed's Chili Mac's. It became one of the most famous walk-in, sit-down, no-matter-what-time-it-is places in the city. It was torn down in 1985. A newspaper account 20 years ago described the Pine Street parlor as an eatery drawing a cross-cultural crowd unlike any other restaurant in St. Louis. "Its white-tiled floors and fluorescent lighting lend to it a cinema noir ambiance that adds a little visual spice to the restaurant's fare and seems to draw a diverse group of diners; they may come from the corporate heavens as well as the unemployment office." And they came late at night or in the early morning hours, sometimes in a bit of a partying fog. Retired Deputy Police Chief James Hackett recalled incidents there that led to brawls, with "hash slingers" calling for help. "It could really be something," he said. "But the chili was really good." Politicians tended to be regulars at Hodge's Chile Parlors, including former St. Louis Circuit Attorney George Peach and one-time Mayor Vincent C. Schoemehl Jr. Peach could be seen almost every morning at the Hodge's parlor in Union Station, which was the first retail facility in the renovated railroad station. Eirten and Brunsen sold the Union Station parlor in 1988, and in September 2001, it closed. Eirten still keeps a letter he received from Mayor Schoemehl in October 1989 thanking him for making his 43rd birthday one of the best: "Having just returned from Europe, a bowl of O.T. Hodge Chile was most welcomed," Schoemehl said. In the peak period of the O.T. Hodge Chile empire there were 16 parlors - here and in East St. Louis and Kansas City. Besides local politicians and muckety-mucks, Hodge's occasionally fed a who's who list of celebrities, including such famed band leaders and musicians as Glenn Miller, Tommy Dorsey, Buddy Hackett, Rosemary Clooney and St. Louis' own, Chuck Berry. President Ronald Reagan almost made it to 814 Pine Street in 1982, when he was here to speak to a Jaycees Convention. Reagan sent a note to Eirten saying he was sorry he couldn't make it, after Eirten had previously written to the president about the chili parlor, a place "where real people live," he said. Regardless of the name, real people still live there.

"Heavens to Betsy Mrs T." Do you mean to say a good Catholic girl like yourself has a gangster in your family? Go immediately to "Mafia.com" for more info on the Egan Rats and rid yourself of some of your questions. You may also wish to take a look at "crimemagazine.com" for a tad more info. Then take a look out at the mercantile library for news clips. Then get in touch with Kathy Grillo at the circuit clerks Archives. Maybe that will nudge that office into finding what I've been waiting for, the last two years.----Jim PS You will be buying news clips at the Mercantile. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jim B.......or anyone else that has done research into the gangs of the > '20's...... > > Just found out that a rellie of mine was a member of Egan's Rats, back > around 1920 to 1923, when he was killed at the age of 21. His name was Elmer > Runge. He is buried in Calvary Cemetery. > > This is what I found on the net: > > Taken from "Gang War Rages On" > <A HREF="http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters_outlaws/family_epics/louis/4.html?sect=16"> > http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters_outlaws/family_epics/louis/4.html?sect=16</A> > > *In March 1923, the Rats tried to ambush Edward “Jellyroll” Hogan and > Humbert Costello as they were driving on Grand Blvd. Two of the shooters, Rat > gunmen Elmer Runge and Isadore Londe, were arrested and Hogan was brought to > police headquarters to identify them. > > “I’ll identify them, all right,” Hogan snapped at police. “I’ll identify > them with a shotgun.”* > > There was much more to the article, but this is all it had to say about > Elmer Runge, and I was just wondering if anyone has any more information about > Egan's Rat gang. I have been told (by an Irish cousin that I hadn't seen in 40 > years, and was reunited with last week) that Elmer had been murdered, in > connection with either bootlegging or gambling. I'd love to find out more > about this, and have been searching the internet, but so far, have not found > anything more. Can someone point me in the right direction? > > Many thanks, > > DianeT > > >

There is also one on Jefferson near I44

Jim B.......or anyone else that has done research into the gangs of the '20's...... Just found out that a rellie of mine was a member of Egan's Rats, back around 1920 to 1923, when he was killed at the age of 21. His name was Elmer Runge. He is buried in Calvary Cemetery. This is what I found on the net: Taken from "Gang War Rages On" http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters_outlaws/family_epics/louis/4.html?sect=16 *In March 1923, the Rats tried to ambush Edward �Jellyroll� Hogan and Humbert Costello as they were driving on Grand Blvd. Two of the shooters, Rat gunmen Elmer Runge and Isadore Londe, were arrested and Hogan was brought to police headquarters to identify them. �I�ll identify them, all right,� Hogan snapped at police. �I�ll identify them with a shotgun.�* There was much more to the article, but this is all it had to say about Elmer Runge, and I was just wondering if anyone has any more information about Egan's Rat gang. I have been told (by an Irish cousin that I hadn't seen in 40 years, and was reunited with last week) that Elmer had been murdered, in connection with either bootlegging or gambling. I'd love to find out more about this, and have been searching the internet, but so far, have not found anything more. Can someone point me in the right direction? Many thanks, DianeT --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

The Lebanese resturant was Trade Winds owned by the Faheens. The son Sonny Faheen was later killed at the Mansion House parking garage by a bomb. That's a whole story there. I knew him and thought he was a swell guy. Barbara kimbuc4@juno.com wrote: Jim, The name of the Chili Parlor is I believe, Hodges. They still have at least two stores, one in Union Station, the other on North Broadway, near Malenkrodt. Before I got married, and lived at home and after my dad closed the tavern on Saturday evenings we would go downtown for a late snack or early breakfast. Sometimes it was Hodges Chili Parlor. The original place I believe had black and white tile on the walls and floor. And about all the local bums who had picked up some donations during the day. Hodges, like White Castle had and still has a unique flavor. Where Steak and Shake has "Chile 3 Ways" Hodges has Chili a bazilion ways. At one time they even sold the local super markets, haven't looked for it in a long time. Always an experience, don't know how I ever got to sleep after one of these sojourns. Then there was the Lebanese after hours restaurant behind City Hospital, where you could get a great steak and breath garlic for a week afterwards, all washed down with ice tea. Dracula would never have gotten near any of the customers. Who could forget the Sunday Dinners at Rugeries (SP), where mom and dad had a couple of classes of water in Heavy Red Water Glasses, this was the only place I ever saw dad drink water, this water could never have been used to put out a fire, it would have exploded. (Sunday Blue Laws). There was also a BBQ place in Afton, Stumble Inn, now I believe it is Phil's. But it is not the Stumble Inn BBQ. No wonder my dad weighed in at 375 and was 6'3". And, he only understood two words from my brother and I "Yes Sir". Bill Surnames of Interest: BUCHHOLZ anywhere -BECKMANN-CASSIDY-DeL0NJAY-DREES-MOSBACHER-NENTWIG-NEUTZLER-PONCOT-RENSIN G-STAUDER-STIEFFERMANN ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ==== MO-STLOUIS-METRO Mailing List ==== For tips on researching St. Louis Church Records: http://members.gtw.net/~seamus/churchrecords.htm